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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Detergent Oil (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 4/24/2017 10:10:39 PM EDT

So, my 2000 Z71 has 155,000 miles on it. I've had the infamous lifter tick a few times and always managed to get rid of it. Either with Marvel Mystery Oil or Sea Foam or both. This time though, no dice. I couldn't seem to clean my lifters up enough to get them to pump up. Truck would start, run rough as hell for a few seconds, and then smooth out. But the ticking didn't go away. And it sounds like multiple lifters.
This evening I tried one of the remedies I've seen floating around on the net. I pulled the right side valve cover off and couldn't believe the amount of gunk under there. I change my oil religiously every 3000 miles and have done so with my last 3 cars. I use Pennzoil 10w-30. Always have. I know I'll get bashed for that, but it has served me well in the past. Until now anyway. The amount of paraffin looking gunk was unbelievable! Anyway, I sprayed Berryman's B12 carb cleaner down each pushrod tube after pulling the rocker arms off. Did it a couple of times. Also cleaned the pushrods and rocker arms in Varsol and oiled them up. Truck hasn't been this quiet in years. In retrospect I figure this last time the lifters were pumping up but no oil was getting through the pushrods causing them to tick. With the amount of funk I found in there, I'm sure of it.

Now to my question and the reason for my post. I think I'm gonna switch to a synthetic or synthetic blend. But first I need to get the inside of my engine clean. The motor flush scares me a bit. Especially as dirty as it is inside. I've heard of running trans fluid and even diesel in the crankcase to help clean one up. I'm looking for suggestions on the best way to get the gunk cleaned up before I switch to synthetic. Hopefully I won't have to do the drivers side. Although i should just make myself feel better. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch. Matt

Posted: 4/24/2017 10:13:21 PM EDT

[#1]

Ruh-roh, I have a 2000 4.8, can I expect to have this problem eventually?

Free BTT.

Posted: 4/24/2017 10:25:58 PM EDT

[#2]

All the early LS's had a problem with what GM called piston slap. I never heard it in mine your mileage may very as far as the lifters go. I'm almost positive I can attribute mine to using a paraffin base petroleum oil. My wife has a 2014 GMC Sierra with the active fuel management. I changed the oil in it myself for the first time about a week ago (she's a service writer at a Honda dealership and always had it done there). I was blown away when I read what weight oil to use. 0w-20 full synthetic! I had a hard time pouring that oil in there but I did it. Bout like pouring alcohol in it it seemed to me. And it holds 8 1-2 quarts. I used Mobil 1 so it wasn't cheap either!

Posted: 4/24/2017 10:35:43 PM EDT

[#3]

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Quoted:
Ruh-roh, I have a 2000 4.8, can I expect to have this problem eventually?

Free BTT.

View Quote

Use cheap 5W-30 oil, just like the manual says to.
The OP was running 10W, for no good reason.

Posted: 4/24/2017 10:51:55 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Use cheap 5W-30 oil, just like the manual says to.
The OP was running 10W, for no good reason.

View Quote

My manual says 5W or 10W. 5W covered a bigger range but 10W is fine down to 0 farenheight. I'm in Texas not Alaska. You may see 0, this truck never has. I don't think the difference between 5W-30 and 10W-30 was the problem anyhow.

Posted: 4/24/2017 10:53:44 PM EDT

[#5]

Might try some Joe Gibbs oil for it, in the right weight.

Posted: 4/24/2017 10:58:10 PM EDT

[#6]

You want to take the gunk out just like you built it up - slowly.

Taking it out too fast can cause a host of problems.

Best to just do the switch and let the engine clean itself up.

Posted: 4/24/2017 11:00:44 PM EDT

[#7]

Keep in mind anything you knock loose that makes it into the oil pan may start restricting your oil pickup screen. BTDT on my old 94 F-150 (lots and lots of short strips that never fully warmed up the engine).

I ended up just douching out everything under the valve covers and intake with mineral spirits and a parts brush and flushing it all into the pan, then pulled the pan and cleaned the bottom end all out.

Posted: 4/24/2017 11:03:06 PM EDT

[#8]

OP, do you make a lot of short trips with this vehicle?

Posted: 4/24/2017 11:05:24 PM EDT

[#9]

one quart of Mercon V spec transmission fluid in lieu of one quart of oil, throw on a new oil filter. Drive vehicle for a couple hundred miles and change the oil and filter. The tranny fluid is a dispersant, like a detergent ( resists gumming up tranny valve bodies). The oil will come out as black as a woodchucks asshole. Worked like a charm on my new to me 2004 neglected pickup truck with over 100K. Google it.

Posted: 4/24/2017 11:06:00 PM EDT

[#10]

The build up comes from short trips/city driving. The oil never really heats up and and builds up on around the valve springs, rocker arms. Pennzoil is the worst about doing it that I have seen.

Posted: 4/24/2017 11:06:17 PM EDT

[#11]

I ran Rotella in an older 4.0 Jeep that had copious amounts of gunk I could see just looking into the oil fill hole. Changed the filter every 1000 miles 3 or 4 times. Did a good job cleaning it up.

Posted: 4/24/2017 11:12:37 PM EDT

[#12]

If it aint broke...

Posted: 4/24/2017 11:20:34 PM EDT

[#13]

Yea I make a lot of short trips. It comes up to temperature though. But yea, city driving mostly.

Posted: 4/24/2017 11:21:28 PM EDT

[#14]

Unless the oil is listed as a none detergent it is by default a detergent type oil as far as motor oils go..

Posted: 4/24/2017 11:56:30 PM EDT

[#15]

Anything wrong with going to a synthetic after 17 years and 155,000 miles? I have heard that synthetic makes seal leaks worse and marginal seals leak. Not sure how true that is.

Posted: 4/24/2017 11:58:32 PM EDT

[#16]

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Yea I make a lot of short trips. It comes up to temperature though. But yea, city driving mostly.

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Almost any oil is going to sludge if you are making mostly short trips. Pennzoil gets a bad rap for sludging, but that's mainly because it makes up such a huge percentage of oil fills in this country.

You might have a bit better luck with a synthetic, and I'd run the 5W-30 I think that vehicle is spec'ed for, but if you run a lot of short trips this is just going to be a problem.

Posted: 4/25/2017 12:02:08 AM EDT

[#17]

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Quoted:
I ran Rotella in an older 4.0 Jeep that had copious amounts of gunk I could see just looking into the oil fill hole. Changed the filter every 1000 miles 3 or 4 times. Did a good job cleaning it up.

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Yep. Diesel oil is where it's at for cleaning up an old engine.

Posted: 4/25/2017 12:23:04 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
Anything wrong with going to a synthetic after 17 years and 155,000 miles? I have heard that synthetic makes seal leaks worse and marginal seals leak. Not sure how true that is.

View Quote

I had it happen on my first gen explorer. *BUT* it was older and had a 230K miles on it. On the flip side that motor LOOOOOVED it.

The oil itself won't cause leaks, it's the function of the oil being better at cleaning removing built up gunk that is plugging existing leaks where solids accumulated over time. So while some blame can be cast on the more detergent nature of synthetic, it's not a direct cause of leaks. Being old and leaking with a self sludge made band aid is the root cause.

On the Expo, I just dropped back to a high mileage semi synthetic and ran it half a quart low to keep too much from leaking out the rear main.

Posted: 4/25/2017 12:49:30 AM EDT

[#19]

Change your PCV valve,that's what is causing the gunk not the Pennzoil. PCV clogs and water vapor accumulates and mixes with the oil. Any brand name HDEO will clean it up after that. Chevron DELO 10w30 or Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or if you want full syn 5w40 from either brand.

Posted: 4/25/2017 1:30:29 AM EDT

[#20]

Not the same engine, but I've used "Gunk" motor flush a good number of times on engines of varying makes for 20 years. Haven't had a problem with it yet. IDK if it will solve your problem, but at least it probably won't hurt anything if used as per the instructions.

Posted: 4/25/2017 1:38:48 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Anything wrong with going to a synthetic after 17 years and 155,000 miles? I have heard that synthetic makes seal leaks worse and marginal seals leak. Not sure how true that is.

View Quote

I did it at 188k. No issues in 40k miles. Also did annual ATF drain and fills with full synth fluid. I take it up to redline a few times a week and it's smooth and pulls hard most of the way.

Posted: 4/25/2017 3:11:14 AM EDT

[#22]

IN...

Before the PURPLE...

Snake oil recommendations...

Posted: 4/25/2017 3:24:00 AM EDT

[#23]

Anyone notice a real difference with "high mileage" oils for gas engines over 150k?

Posted: 4/25/2017 3:30:09 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
one quart of Mercon V spec transmission fluid in lieu of one quart of oil, throw on a new oil filter. Drive vehicle for a couple hundred miles and change the oil and filter. The tranny fluid is a dispersant, like a detergent ( resists gumming up tranny valve bodies). The oil will come out as black as a woodchucks asshole. Worked like a charm on my new to me 2004 neglected pickup truck with over 100K. Google it.

View Quote

This.

Posted: 4/25/2017 7:12:27 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Change your PCV valve,that's what is causing the gunk not the Pennzoil. PCV clogs and water vapor accumulates and mixes with the oil. Any brand name HDEO will clean it up after that. Chevron DELO 10w30 or Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or if you want full syn 5w40 from either brand.

View Quote

Changing the PCV is good advice as well.

Posted: 4/25/2017 8:29:08 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Anyone notice a real difference with "high mileage" oils for gas engines over 150k?

View Quote

Seal swell additive. Sometimes they'll also up blend the the oil with a higher VI package. Depends on the brand really.

PCV valve.

The engine oil you're running is fine. It's minimum a group 2+ base oil. Probably though it's a synthetic blend.

You can also look into an engine oil systems cleaner. BG has one, Gulf chemical select has one, etc. If you can't find one PM me and I'll get you hooked up.

I would recommend switching to a 5w30 of a decent quality, synthetic blend. I'm a huge fan of the Kendall products. The Gt1 high performance synthetic blends are great.

Posted: 4/25/2017 2:51:39 PM EDT

[#27]

The last sludged engine I dealt with, the inside of the heads looked like black candle wax covering the rocker arms and springs. I had to use the dipstick like a plumber's snake to open up the oil drain back holes. My fix was to do an oil change using straight 20 weight Valvoline high detergent oil.

Then I drove the car over 1000 miles on a 3 day weekend and did another oil change. The old oil coming out was like black paint. I put in my regular and never had an oil related problem with that engine in 90,000 miles.

The "Quaker State Protection" stickers under the hood should have been a red flag when I bought that car.

Posted: 4/25/2017 3:32:45 PM EDT

[#28]

Well here's my plan. I'll change the PCV, change the filter, run a quart of trans fluid (was gonna say tranny but didn't want to start a tranny thread). Then I'll do a regular oil and filter change. We'll see how that works. Still undecided on changing to a different kind of oil. I've been running the Pennzoil 10W- 30 a long time. Obviously something got me to this gunk problem, but from the sounds of it it's not all the oils fault. Thanks for the advice. Matt

Posted: 4/25/2017 3:36:04 PM EDT

[#29]

Go here:

BITOG

There are a ton of engineer types that are totally anal retentive about oil and will give you more information than you can imagine.

ETA - and look into AutoRx

Posted: 4/25/2017 3:36:44 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Well here's my plan. I'll change the PCV, change the filter, run a quart of trans fluid (was gonna say tranny but didn't want to start a tranny thread). Then I'll do a regular oil and filter change. We'll see how that works. Still undecided on changing to a different kind of oil. I've been running the Pennzoil 10W- 30 a long time. Obviously something got me to this gunk problem, but from the sounds of it it's not all the oils fault. Thanks for the advice. Matt

View Quote

I would not recommend running a quart of ATF through the motor.

The additive packages in ATF are not designed for the same heat tolerance as motor oils are.

Posted: 4/25/2017 3:38:54 PM EDT

[#31]

Mobile 1 will do a good job at cleaning your engine. It is a synthetic, which as stated will have a detergent effect. Some will use a qt of Dexron ATF too.

I had a good friend who ran Quaker State religiously in his car. We spooned the cake out of his intake

never again. I use synthetic in my wife's Honda it is over-kill but will prevent build-up. My truck has 216k and I use Castrol high mileage synthetic blend. I bought the truck from my stepfather who used whatever the guy on the corner put in it. Who knows what the % of the blend is but I figure it is more to the mineral based oil than synthetic so it will be more gentle in the cleaning process. I've been running it for 5 years now. Just had to fix valve cover leak but it is common for the Tacoma so I can't blame the oil.

Posted: 4/25/2017 4:29:26 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

I would not recommend running a quart of ATF through the motor.

The additive packages in ATF are not designed for the same heat tolerance as motor oils are.

View Quote

So your advice would be.....?

Posted: 4/25/2017 4:39:01 PM EDT

[#33]

The diesel Cleaning trick is from pre ULS diesel days. I would be leery of doing g it with modern diesel.

Posted: 4/25/2017 4:39:27 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

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So your advice would be.....?

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Quoted:

Quoted:

I would not recommend running a quart of ATF through the motor.

The additive packages in ATF are not designed for the same heat tolerance as motor oils are.

So your advice would be.....?

His advice is to read the entire thread, being sure to read the posts that contain his advice.

Posted: 4/25/2017 4:44:17 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:

So your advice would be.....?

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A purpose built engine oil systems cleaner. There's bunch on the market.

Posted: 4/25/2017 4:47:51 PM EDT

[#36]

This thread makes me glad I always use Mobil 1 oil...

Posted: 4/25/2017 4:49:20 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
So your advice would be.....?

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Quoted:

Quoted:

I would not recommend running a quart of ATF through the motor.

The additive packages in ATF are not designed for the same heat tolerance as motor oils are.

So your advice would be.....?

That's an old trick that worked back in the day. I would not know if said trick would be dangerous with a modern engine. I suspect(but not guarantee) the just one quart you would be ok.

Posted: 4/25/2017 4:49:37 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
This thread makes me glad I always use Mobil 1 oil...

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Wouldn't stop the problem he has.

Posted: 4/25/2017 4:52:45 PM EDT

[#39]

If it starts misfiring on you, those LS engines are good about breaking valve springs. $3 spring can cost you alot of money if you drop a valve

Posted: 4/25/2017 5:58:14 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

So your advice would be.....?

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Been doing it on both my own vehicles and customer vehicles since the early 80's..just sub 1qt ATF for one qt of oil every5-6 oil changes..no reason to change fluids early or anything else.... There is no magic tool/fluid that will remove everything in one shot short of tearing it completely down and hot tanking/sonic cleaning then reassembling it....

Posted: 4/25/2017 6:05:13 PM EDT

[#41]

It has misfired per say. I did run a little rough for a few seconds from the lifters not being pumped up. But it hasn't misfired continually like a broken spring. No springs broken on the right side.
I've read every post. Just trying to get as much advice as I can.

Posted: 4/25/2017 6:05:23 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
Go here:

BITOG

There are a ton of engineer types that are totally anal retentive about oil and will give you more information than you can imagine.

ETA - and look into AutoRx

View Quote

I lost a lot of faith in that forum when I saw people running oil filters for multiple oil changes just to see how long an $8 filter lasted or some dumb retardation like that. I understand trying to keep oil changes to a 1 year interval or perhaps going 10k miles on a change but re-using an oil filter or trying to get 25k miles on a $5k engine just to save $50 on oil is stupid.

Posted: 4/25/2017 6:12:51 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
I lost a lot of faith in that forum when I saw people running oil filters for multiple oil changes just to see how long an $8 filter lasted or some dumb retardation like that. I understand trying to keep oil changes to a 1 year interval or perhaps going 10k miles on a change but re-using an oil filter or trying to get 25k miles on a $5k engine just to save $50 on oil is stupid.

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You do realize most all production engines come with a by pass valve either built in to the engine or in the filter right? You also understand that it is lightly spring loaded and opens anytime the oil pressure exceeds the springs tension right? Which in most engines means it is bypassing unfiltered oil back into the internals anytime oil pressure is over about 15 psi....on my own stuff (all GM), I removed, plugged the passage and ran the GM 2 qt filter...but you have to really watch oil pressure like a hawk...

Posted: 4/25/2017 6:19:09 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

Been doing it on both my own vehicles and customer vehicles since the early 80's..just sub 1qt ATF for one qt of oil every5-6 oil changes..no reason to change fluids early or anything else.... There is no magic tool/fluid that will remove everything in one shot short of tearing it completely down and hot tanking/sonic cleaning then reassembling it....

View Quote

You would be shocked what a good engine oil system cleaner can pull out.

I was extremely doubtful till I saw some engine tear downs after running engine oil systems cleaner through it.

Ford 6.4L Diesel, 150k~ish miles. Kendall DXA 15w40 and a recent use of Gulf Select Engine Oil Systems cleaner.

As I said earlier. If OP can't find an engine oil systems cleaner in his AO. PM and I can take care of it.

Posted: 4/25/2017 6:22:53 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:

You would be shocked what a good engine oil system cleaner can pull out.

I was extremely doubtful till I saw some engine tear downs after running engine oil systems cleaner through it.

Ford 6.4L Diesel, 150k~ish miles. Kendall DXA 15w40 and a recent use of Gulf Select Engine Oil Systems cleaner.

http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/148484/engine1-195306.jpg

As I said earlier. If OP can't find an engine oil systems cleaner in his AO. PM and I can take care of it.

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Where's the before picture? It could have looked like that before putting the cleaner in.

Posted: 4/25/2017 6:25:30 PM EDT

[#46]

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Where's the before picture? It could have looked like that before putting the cleaner in.

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That's my personal truck, as soon as the cover was pulled. I did injectors at 150k miles, as I also did a single turbo conversion at the time.

Your choice to believe me or not. If I was smart, we just did heads on a truck that had 350k miles on, Ford 6.0 - using the same oil and engine oil systems cleaner. I should of taken pictures.

Posted: 4/25/2017 7:44:23 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

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That's my personal truck, as soon as the cover was pulled. I did injectors at 150k miles, as I also did a single turbo conversion at the time.

Your choice to believe me or not. If I was smart, we just did heads on a truck that had 350k miles on, Ford 6.0 - using the same oil and engine oil systems cleaner. I should of taken pictures.

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That's fine and all, but I have seen a small block Chevy that was so gunked up that pulling the valve covers ended up looking like someone just painted them black....6 months of a qt of ATF in the oil and it looked as good as your picture...so what's a qt of ATF cost versus your oil cleaner machine, time, and effort? OP is welcome to do as he pleases, I was just countering the claim someone made that ATF wouldn't clean out his engine..it will, easily and with no fuss or muss...

Posted: 4/25/2017 7:52:07 PM EDT

[#48]

Back in the day, guys used to run 50/50 diesel fuel/motor oil for a skosh to clean up the internals.

In fact I knew a guy that ran straight diesel in his crankcase for about 10 minutes then changed it out for new oil & filter. Seemed to work and he claimed it didn't hurt anything doing it at idle for that short a time.

YMMV

Posted: 4/25/2017 7:53:24 PM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
That's fine and all, but I have seen a small block Chevy that was so gunked up that pulling the valve covers ended up looking like someone just painted them black....6 months of a qt of ATF in the oil and it looked as good as your picture...so what's a qt of ATF cost versus your oil cleaner machine, time, and effort? OP is welcome to do as he pleases, I was just countering the claim someone made that ATF wouldn't clean out his engine..it will, easily and with no fuss or muss...

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

That's my personal truck, as soon as the cover was pulled. I did injectors at 150k miles, as I also did a single turbo conversion at the time.

Your choice to believe me or not. If I was smart, we just did heads on a truck that had 350k miles on, Ford 6.0 - using the same oil and engine oil systems cleaner. I should of taken pictures.

That's fine and all, but I have seen a small block Chevy that was so gunked up that pulling the valve covers ended up looking like someone just painted them black....6 months of a qt of ATF in the oil and it looked as good as your picture...so what's a qt of ATF cost versus your oil cleaner machine, time, and effort? OP is welcome to do as he pleases, I was just countering the claim someone made that ATF wouldn't clean out his engine..it will, easily and with no fuss or muss...

Bearing life?

Nothing like replacing 1/5th to 1/6th of an engines capability to protect itself from wear and combustion contamination.

Posted: 4/25/2017 7:55:05 PM EDT

[#50]

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OP, do you make a lot of short trips with this vehicle?

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This.

Those engines do not gack up for no reason and those lifters have been in service since the 1980s and are known good components as well.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Detergent Oil (Page 1 of 2)

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