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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:40:18 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dunno. Sounds great for SB Tactical. But reading this from: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/foghorn/atf-its-legal-to-shoulder-an-ar-15-pistol-equipped-with-an-sb-tactical-arm-brace/ With respect to stabilizing braces, ATF has concluded that attaching the brace to a handgun as a forearm brace does not “make” a short-barreled rifle because in the configuration as submitted to and approved by FATD, it is not intended to be and cannot comfortably be fired from the shoulder. If, however, the shooter/possessor takes affirmative steps to configure the device for use as a shoulder-stock — for example, configuring the brace so as to permanently affix it to the end of a buffer tube, (thereby creating a length that has no other purpose than to facilitate its use as a stock), removing the arm-strap, or otherwise undermining its ability to be used as a brace — and then in fact shoots the firearm from the shoulder using the accessory as a shoulder stock, that person has objectively “redesigned” the firearm for the purposes of the NFA. I think we were better off with the ambiguity. Now it sounds like more constructive intent is on its way. 
This shit is shady as fuck |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:40:33 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:40:51 PM EDT
[#3]
I predict this will be the most duped topic in the history of Arfcom .
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:42:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I predict this will be the most duped topic in the history of Arfcom . |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:42:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Pretty stoked about this
 , now I need to get a pistol
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:43:33 PM EDT
[#6]
So don't call it a rifle and don't think about it being a rifle, and don't take a single action that might make them think you intended to use the pistol as a rifle and you're good. hmm...
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:44:34 PM EDT
[#7]
self-policed COC violation. deleted comment
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:45:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just read the letter and its wishy washy at best. It says if you incidentally, sporadically, or situationally? use it on your shoulder your ok. What if you shoulder it more than sporadically or you intend to shoulder it every time(not incidental) FATF |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:46:17 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:50:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Well if it only applies to SB Tactical braces, then do the Sig braces count, since they were created by SB Tactical? What about Sig's second generation SB-15 braces? Let's send a letter to BATFE...
Just kidding. IDGAF, and will shoot my pistol however I want.
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:51:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who gives a fuck? They'll just "reverse" their decision next month. Over reaching, unConstitutional Statists organization. Abolish. |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:52:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I noticed that too maybe someone jumped the gun.. I'm to build pistol ar again Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is it the 25th yet? I'm to build pistol ar again |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:54:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a shockwave on a SBR mpx, it feels fine to me. |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:55:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... frankly, I'm mildly surprised ATF royalty are trying to keep their jobs. |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 11:58:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MAGA you never Trump homos. OH NO, I SHORTENED MY BARREL, MAKING A LOT OF CHEAP FRAGMENTING 5.56 ROUNDS DECIDEDLY LESS DEADLY AND SHORTER RANGE. OH NO, I shortened my shotgun, taking the piss out of 12-gauge beyond room distance! Better register that gun, son, that somehow just made it as dangerous as an LMG! Dumb fucking laws. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:01:24 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious question, what does this really mean in the practical use of AR pistols? Am I clear to shoulder my shockwave? Does anybody know? http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/a1.jpg |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:04:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its sad that your right. To bad there are some that hate freedom 
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:05:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good thing I never gave a shit in the first place  
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:05:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good thing I never gave a shit in the first place |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:06:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It has it's own ATF letter. GARY http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/a1.jpg |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:08:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As easy as a new letter of interpretation was made to make it "ok" to shoulder an arm brace.......another letter of interpretation can be made to make it "not ok" to shoulder an arm brace. That's the shitty think about these letters of interpretation.....the ATF can change them as many times as they want. I don't know why people play stupid fucking games with an agency that constantly changes it's "opinion" that could fuck you in the ass. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:10:32 AM EDT
[#22]
Gee, now I can actually shoulder my SBPDW brace on my pistol?!
I wonder what it's like, because I've never, ever tried. 
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:10:49 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It has it's own ATF letter. GARY http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/a1.jpg |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:24:06 AM EDT
[#24]
ATFESBWTFBBQ
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives, Shoulder Braces..
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:30:23 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bingo. I don't know why people play stupid fucking games with an agency that constantly changes it's "opinion" that could fuck you in the ass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As easy as a new letter of interpretation was made to make it "ok" to shoulder an arm brace.......another letter of interpretation can be made to make it "not ok" to shoulder an arm brace. That's the shitty think about these letters of interpretation.....the ATF can change them as many times as they want. I don't know why people play stupid fucking games with an agency that constantly changes it's "opinion" that could fuck you in the ass. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:32:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ATF specifically targeting a lack of arm straps, whether used or not
This shit is shady as fuck Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I dunno. Sounds great for SB Tactical. But reading this from: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/foghorn/atf-its-legal-to-shoulder-an-ar-15-pistol-equipped-with-an-sb-tactical-arm-brace/ With respect to stabilizing braces, ATF has concluded that attaching the brace to a handgun as a forearm brace does not “make” a short-barreled rifle because in the configuration as submitted to and approved by FATD, it is not intended to be and cannot comfortably be fired from the shoulder. If, however, the shooter/possessor takes affirmative steps to configure the device for use as a shoulder-stock — for example, configuring the brace so as to permanently affix it to the end of a buffer tube, (thereby creating a length that has no other purpose than to facilitate its use as a stock), removing the arm-strap, or otherwise undermining its ability to be used as a brace — and then in fact shoots the firearm from the shoulder using the accessory as a shoulder stock, that person has objectively “redesigned” the firearm for the purposes of the NFA. I think we were better off with the ambiguity. Now it sounds like more constructive intent is on its way.
This shit is shady as fuck At the end of the day, it's been shoved down their throats and this is the FU concession we are getting as a response. They essentially give us what we want, but they wrote a shit-ton of grey area into that letter. Quantify sporadically in actual use...as a percentage or absolute number. Quantify "situationally." One could read that as you could keep the pistol in your car, but if you used it in self defense from the shoulder because it made more sense in that situation....that would be situational use, would it not? That letter reads like a "FU" paper submitted by a ticked off student. Overly wordy, reference-y, and cryptic. It's hard to read and hard to understand where they are going with it on the first read. Ive written papers like that for profs who would get all sorts of bent out of shape over SJW stuff, hard as hell to read, hard to divine the meaning, makes the reader really work for it. The real win here, IMHO, is getting to see the SBR or fuck off crowd get all bent out of shape trying to feel like their remedy is superior. In some cases, they are correct. In other cases, a braced pistol makes way more sense and has advantages not provided with a SBR. Likewise, the SBR provides advantages that the brace does not. But I still find that the SBR crowd is super butt-hurt by the braces, and I'm going to enjoy the Schadenfreude . |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:36:26 AM EDT
[#27]
This is fucking stupid. The ATF should cease to exist.
FTBATFE FTNFA FTGCA |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:36:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it the 25th yet? And I'm deployed and nine hours ahead of you. It's bullshit until I see otherwise. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:39:18 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd rather pay the 200 tax and be able use a real stock instead of using a sub standard instrument just to be in spite of. Oh wait, I did pay the tax. Repeatably. Will do so again. Repeatably. Don't like the tax but until they take SBR's and cans off the NFA, that is the way it will be done for me because I don't cheap out out of spite when it can save my life being more optimal 
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:40:23 AM EDT
[#30]
why are you guys still acting like it matters? do you people honestly believe that the ATF will limit itself by law? are you under the impression that the policy isn't deliberately vague?
a lot of you need to wake the fuck up. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:40:33 AM EDT
[#31]
I get the strange impression that some folks in this thread arent happy about this ATF opinion.
Be brave tell me why you are hostile to this news. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:42:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get the strange impression that some folks in this thread isn't happy about this ATF opinion. Be brave tell me why you are hostile to this news. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:43:10 AM EDT
[#33]
yah
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:43:43 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why are you guys still acting like it matters? do you people honestly believe that the ATF will limit itself by law? are you under the impression that the policy isn't deliberately vague? a lot of you need to wake the fuck up. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:44:56 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
because these faggots are catering to a segment of the market |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:47:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, it's always been legal. ATF does not make law and can't even interpret in a completely asinine way like "putting something to your shoulder is manufacturing it!". Non issue and always has been except for "gotcha" internet lawyers. Same with overly broad interpretations of 922r. "Oh noes, the ATF is going to come count the parts on my Saiga-12!!!!" Not that anybody really cared about this particular law, except RSO's on hoverrounds |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:54:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ATF isn't going to the range looking for these violations. The ATFs opinion is important if the local sherif arrests your ass for a NFA violation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
why are you guys still acting like it matters? do you people honestly believe that the ATF will limit itself by law? are you under the impression that the policy isn't deliberately vague? a lot of you need to wake the fuck up. as long as the policy is vague, the ATF can get involved or not, based on whim. and because they can set the policy without oversight, there is almost no limit to their ability to interfere with lawful gun owners. if you doubt that, look down at the two literal machine guns on your feet. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:57:36 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the ATF remains relevant and powerful by maintaining the largest possible scope of potential activities. contracting its scope is anathema to an armed bureaucrat. as long as the policy is vague, the ATF can get involved or not, based on whim. and because they can set the policy without oversight, there is almost no limit to their ability to interfere with lawful gun owners. if you doubt that, look down at the two literal machine guns on your feet. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:00:50 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get the strange impression that some folks in this thread arent happy about this ATF opinion. Be brave tell me why you are hostile to this news. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:06:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Now we just have to wait a year for the news to reach all the ROs and range owners across the country lol.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:11:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Time to get a scorpion with a SB tactical brace
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:12:22 AM EDT
[#42]
I'm still going to wait...
for the Reversal of the Reversal of the Reversal... of the Reversal. 
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:19:33 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm genuinely curious, can you provide a link to the shoelace machinegun case?  Attached Filegoogle and archive search will get you the details. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:28:36 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice- The new clarification of opinion letter states, “an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made when the device is not reconfigured for use as a shoulder stock – even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder. To the extent that the January 2015 Open Letter implied or has been construed to hold that incidental, sporadic, or situational “use” of an arm-brace (in its original approved configuration) equipped firearm from a firing position at or near the shoulder was sufficient to constitute “redesign,” such interpretations are incorrect and not consistent with ATF’s interpretation of the statute or the manner in which it has historically been enforced.” Let's see what other interesting statements come from the ATF... |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:33:23 AM EDT
[#45]
still stupid and gay in my opinion...
everyone who was lazy and didn't want to pay the $200 is jumping up and down... Meanwhile, I did my SBr's and SBS and other shit...many moons ago back when approvals were 30 days for trust. I hate those things not for jealousy or anything...it just looks... gay 
I sound snobby but I am not. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:33:40 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trump may have influenced this behind the curtain... Let's see what other interesting statements come from the ATF... Now if Trump holds a presser and stands up there with the head of the BATFE and says they are cutting their budget by 40% I will get excited. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:35:33 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
still stupid and gay in my opinion... everyone who was lazy and didn't want to pay the $200 is jumping up and down... Meanwhile, I did my SBr's and SBS and other shit...many moons ago back when approvals were 30 days for trust. I hate those things not for jealousy or anything...it just looks... gay
I sound snobby but I am not. It's not about looks. It's about freedom. Fuck BATFE and continuing to infringe upon OUR RIGHTS. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:40:34 AM EDT
[#48]
and I agree with you....I don't like it either but the $200 is called a STAY THE FUCK OUT OF JAIL insurance.
it's great insurance for me and when showing it to the SHeriffs and cops when I shoot my SBR's. It's golden... |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:41:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Time to get a scorpion with a SB tactical brace
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:47:18 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
still stupid and gay in my opinion... everyone who was lazy and didn't want to pay the $200 is jumping up and down... Meanwhile, I did my SBr's and SBS and other shit...many moons ago back when approvals were 30 days for trust. I hate those things not for jealousy or anything...it just looks... gay
I sound snobby but I am not. |
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