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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:11:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@MilitaryArms Just so you can stop saying this only applies to SB Tactical, here is official confirmation from Shockwave that the Blade is able to be shouldered: http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?p=3524 Time to re-film all your videos from yesterday and today! |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:17:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@MilitaryArms Just so you can stop saying this only applies to SB Tactical, here is official confirmation from Shockwave that the Blade is able to be shouldered: http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?p=3524 Time to re-film all your videos from yesterday and today! |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:23:35 PM EDT
[#3]
This pic is now legal?!
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:26:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sarcasm???????? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just sent my letter. Not willing to go to jail for what someone says on the internet, but I still want to shoulder my damn sig brace. Screw your $200 tax stamps. Do you think I have 30 hours of free time to sift through endless layers of bullshit just to find out wether what I'm doing is a felony? No thank you. I'd rather hear it from the source. My life and my property is what's at stake here, not some slap on the wrist and parking ticket. We'll see how long it takes to get a response and I'll start a thread since these fucks asses over at SB can't post the shit themselves. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:37:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sarcasm? Do you think I have 30 hours of free time to sift through endless layers of bullshit just to find out wether what I'm doing is a felony? No thank you. I'd rather hear it from the source. My life and my property is what's at stake here, not some slap on the wrist and parking ticket. We'll see how long it takes to get a response and I'll start a thread since these fucks asses over at SB can't post the shit themselves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just sent my letter. Not willing to go to jail for what someone says on the internet, but I still want to shoulder my damn sig brace. Screw your $200 tax stamps. Do you think I have 30 hours of free time to sift through endless layers of bullshit just to find out wether what I'm doing is a felony? No thank you. I'd rather hear it from the source. My life and my property is what's at stake here, not some slap on the wrist and parking ticket. We'll see how long it takes to get a response and I'll start a thread since these fucks asses over at SB can't post the shit themselves. 
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:39:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't understand why this is so hard for so many people to grasp. An AR pistol vs. SBR trades a small amount of functionality (because a real stock is better than any brace) for much greater legal flexibility as a "pistol". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd not SBR my "car" AR pistol if even it was free with no wait time. The brace keeps it a pistol which I can keep loaded in the car without running afoul of stupid loaded rifle laws that my state and many other states have. As many of those laws are buried within hunting regulations (sometimes by county in states with no preemption) you would be a fool to SBR if you want to carry your weapon loaded in your vehicle. Do you know every state's hunting regulations as it regards carrying a loaded rifle? No, I did not think so.....I don't either but I know which states recognize my CPP. 
SBR = Short Barreled Rifle so from a practical standpoint I would be paying $200.00 and have to wait forever to convert a pistol into something I can't keep loaded in my vehicle. 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM-G0bkl8MQThat said if they live in or travel to states where carrying a loaded rifle in their vehicle is not a issue then I can sorta understand....Stamp away. Hell, I'd love to ditch the brace that's on my 10.5" Colt 9mm Carbine in favor of a alum XM-177 stock I have squirreled away but I'm not going to pay Uncle Sugar $200.00 then wait for a fucking year to do it. From a practical standpoint (and given my ability to adjust blade/brace to suit me) I see no great advantage to a real stock in the close confines of a vehicle....In fact a blade does not have anything to get snagged on like levers and such that "real" stocks do. Once you are out of the vehicle then it becomes somewhat of a different story. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:40:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You outed yourself and lost this one the moment you said the word, "Loophole." |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:42:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:45:02 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:47:29 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This pic is now legal?! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/dubstyl/C9B14B87-F5F6-442F-A516-7A442D1907C5_zps2jljlqxb.jpg 
He needs to make more videos. I was subscribed to his YT channel awhile ago, but he rarely puts out vids. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:47:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@MilitaryArms Just so you can stop saying this only applies to SB Tactical, here is official confirmation from Shockwave that the Blade is able to be shouldered: http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?p=3524 Time to re-film all your videos from yesterday and today! |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:47:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote Historyevidently
ETA: damn, got me between typing and submit....so in after the edit 
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:48:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@MilitaryArms You referred to the (Shockwave) Blade and Tailhook as knockoffs in your Instagram post, would you mind elucidating on that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
@MilitaryArms You referred to the (Shockwave) Blade and Tailhook as knockoffs in your Instagram post, would you mind elucidating on that? Based on our evaluation, FTISB finds that the submitted forearm brace, when attached to a pistol is a “firearm” subject to the GCA provisions; however, it is not a “firearm” as defined by the NFA provided the Blade AR Pistol Stabilizer is used as originally designed and NOT used as a shoulder stock. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:50:31 PM EDT
[#14]
I have two questions.
(1) Is the short (Sully?) stock now no longer a stock? After all, if something like the shockwave can be shouldered, and now be considered a stock - how the can Sully stock of equal length be considered a stock? It seems to me - from reading the ATF opinion - that mounting braces further out on the buffer tube culd still technically be problematic. Of course, given all of this confusion, nobody will probably care about any of their opinions on this again, but it is funny to me now that there can be non-stock braces that are now longer than actual stocks.
(2) Who is going to be first to mount a shockwave (or whatever) to a Glock? And which genius will write a letter about that? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:50:33 PM EDT
[#15]
but muh form 1
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:52:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sarcasm? Do you think I have 30 hours of free time to sift through endless layers of bullshit just to find out wether what I'm doing is a felony? No thank you. I'd rather hear it from the source. My life and my property is what's at stake here, not some slap on the wrist and parking ticket. We'll see how long it takes to get a response and I'll start a thread since these fucks asses over at SB can't post the shit themselves. 
Apparently they have been sitting on this letter for a month before releasing it |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:57:25 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:58:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
but muh form 1
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Posted: 4/25/2017 5:59:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
evidently
ETA: damn, got me between typing and submit....so in after the edit Quote HistoryQuoted:
ETA: damn, got me between typing and submit....so in after the edit |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:11:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No worries man I tried to embed and in the preview it showed but once submitted it was fubar I got the joke lol. Damn with assembled 10in ar pistols coming in around $400 I think that with the tailhook will make for a real cheap truck gun. Now if we can fix the suppressor bullshit that will make life sooooooooooooo much better :) two resons I dotn have anything with stamps: 1:) $200 permission slips 2:) Waiting up to a year. I got my CCW/LTC/CCP in less than 10 days from the state of Texas. NC was 3 weeks and two renewals were the same time. Now I can get the Scorpion and call it good......Grabagun, here I come!
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:16:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sarcasm? Do you think I have 30 hours of free time to sift through endless layers of bullshit just to find out wether what I'm doing is a felony? No thank you. I'd rather hear it from the source. My life and my property is what's at stake here, not some slap on the wrist and parking ticket. We'll see how long it takes to get a response and I'll start a thread since these fucks asses over at SB can't post the shit themselves. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:22:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryFuck yeah, the rubber brace on my Uzi Pro is heavy as fuck.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:29:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And muh ergonomics. 
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:33:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Muh reliability Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And muh ergonomics. 
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:39:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Sb tactical announcement The new clarification of opinion letter states, “an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made when the device is not reconfigured for use as a shoulder stock – even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder. To the extent that the January 2015 Open Letter implied or has been construed to hold that incidental, sporadic, or situational “use” of an arm-brace (in its original approved configuration) equipped firearm from a firing position at or near the shoulder was sufficient to constitute “redesign,” such interpretations are incorrect and not consistent with ATF’s interpretation of the statute or the manner in which it has historically been enforced.” A certain professor threatened to ban me for stating the obvious on this. I forgive him though, English isn't his native tongue, and He may have had a high fever from bird flu. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:42:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. Isn't a 13.5" lop equal to an A2 stock? That must be their basis for rifle lop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@MilitaryArms Just so you can stop saying this only applies to SB Tactical, here is official confirmation from Shockwave that the Blade is able to be shouldered: http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?p=3524 Time to re-film all your videos from yesterday and today!
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:43:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have two questions. (1) Is the short (Sully?) stock now no longer a stock? After all, if something like the shockwave can be shouldered, and now be considered a stock - how the can Sully stock of equal length be considered a stock? It seems to me - from reading the ATF opinion - that mounting braces further out on the buffer tube culd still technically be problematic. Of course, given all of this confusion, nobody will probably care about any of their opinions on this again, but it is funny to me now that there can be non-stock braces that are now longer than actual stocks.
(2) Who is going to be first to mount a shockwave (or whatever) to a Glock? And which genius will write a letter about that? 2) nananabooboo. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:46:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So where's the letter? Are you willing to bet your freedom on some companies retelling of a phone call they had with a nameless ATF agent? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
@MilitaryArms Just so you can stop saying this only applies to SB Tactical, here is official confirmation from Shockwave that the Blade is able to be shouldered: http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?p=3524 Time to re-film all your videos from yesterday and today! |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:47:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
but muh form 1
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:50:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And muh ergonomics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
but muh form 1
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:53:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
but muh form 1
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:55:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have two questions. (1) Is the short (Sully?) stock now no longer a stock? After all, if something like the shockwave can be shouldered, and now be considered a stock - how the can Sully stock of equal length be considered a stock? It seems to me - from reading the ATF opinion - that mounting braces further out on the buffer tube culd still technically be problematic. Of course, given all of this confusion, nobody will probably care about any of their opinions on this again, but it is funny to me now that there can be non-stock braces that are now longer than actual stocks.
(2) Who is going to be first to mount a shockwave (or whatever) to a Glock? And which genius will write a letter about that? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 6:57:58 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:00:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/228370/IMG-0528-195326.JPG Don't forget
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:01:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That article is dated April 25, 2017. 
Good news from tomorrow I guess. Common practice. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:04:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sarcasm? Do you think I have 30 hours of free time to sift through endless layers of bullshit just to find out wether what I'm doing is a felony? No thank you. I'd rather hear it from the source. My life and my property is what's at stake here, not some slap on the wrist and parking ticket. We'll see how long it takes to get a response and I'll start a thread since these fucks asses over at SB can't post the shit themselves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just sent my letter. Not willing to go to jail for what someone says on the internet, but I still want to shoulder my damn sig brace. Screw your $200 tax stamps. Do you think I have 30 hours of free time to sift through endless layers of bullshit just to find out wether what I'm doing is a felony? No thank you. I'd rather hear it from the source. My life and my property is what's at stake here, not some slap on the wrist and parking ticket. We'll see how long it takes to get a response and I'll start a thread since these fucks asses over at SB can't post the shit themselves. People writing letters and the ATF saying "What are all these tards going on about?" - "I want my own letter! Duuuuurrrrr! Where's my helmet??! DUUUUUURRRRRRRRR!"
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:12:06 PM EDT
[#37]
I swear, people here are gonna fuck around and split hairs, then argue over the hairs they split, then write letters to prove someone else wrong and get us right back where we were a year ago. People cannot and will not leave good enough alone.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:14:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what got us here in the first place. People writing letters and the ATF saying "What are all these tards going on about?" - "I want my own letter! Duuuuurrrrr! Where's my helmet??! DUUUUUURRRRRRRRR!"Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just sent my letter. Not willing to go to jail for what someone says on the internet, but I still want to shoulder my damn sig brace. Screw your $200 tax stamps. Do you think I have 30 hours of free time to sift through endless layers of bullshit just to find out wether what I'm doing is a felony? No thank you. I'd rather hear it from the source. My life and my property is what's at stake here, not some slap on the wrist and parking ticket. We'll see how long it takes to get a response and I'll start a thread since these fucks asses over at SB can't post the shit themselves. People writing letters and the ATF saying "What are all these tards going on about?" - "I want my own letter! Duuuuurrrrr! Where's my helmet??! DUUUUUURRRRRRRRR!" |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:17:18 PM EDT
[#39]
Brace with optional paperclip, angled, and flip up sights.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:26:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They just can't help themselves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just sent my letter. Not willing to go to jail for what someone says on the internet, but I still want to shoulder my damn sig brace. Screw your $200 tax stamps. Do you think I have 30 hours of free time to sift through endless layers of bullshit just to find out wether what I'm doing is a felony? No thank you. I'd rather hear it from the source. My life and my property is what's at stake here, not some slap on the wrist and parking ticket. We'll see how long it takes to get a response and I'll start a thread since these fucks asses over at SB can't post the shit themselves. People writing letters and the ATF saying "What are all these tards going on about?" - "I want my own letter! Duuuuurrrrr! Where's my helmet??! DUUUUUURRRRRRRRR!"No letters. No emails. No requests for further clarifications. Just move along. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:30:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You outed yourself and lost this one the moment you said the word, "Loophole."
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:43:13 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:44:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote History OMG! THE SIG BRACE IS LEGAL AGAIN - The Legal Brief! |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:53:22 PM EDT
[#44]
What about this?
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Posted: 4/25/2017 7:58:14 PM EDT
[#45]
This is one of the biggest fucking goat ropes I've ever seen.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 8:03:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't thank him for bad information. I like my AR stock 2 clicks out from full in. My sig brace and KAK tube equipped pistol is 1/4" longer than an AR with a MOE stock set at that position. LOP is perfect for me but for guys who like different LOP there are ways to adjust. And Since MOEs seem to be pretty popular and I have one right here lets take some other measurements. Height of shoulder contact area at butt pad from top to bottom: sig brace is approximately 6-1/2", MOE is approximately 5-1/2". So there is more contact area with the brace. Width of shoulder contact area at butt pad: sig brace is approx 2-1/2" at widest part, MOE is approx 1-5/8" at widest part. Again, more contact area with the brace. Cheek weld area: sig brace is approx 6-3/8" long by 2" deep, MOE is approx 6-7/8" by 1-1/2" deep. Depth is the more important dimension with cheek weld and the brace has more contact area here as well. If someone doesn't like braces or thinks they're ugly ( because that matters) then fine. However, you don't just get to make up bullshit.
ETA: People that make the ergonomic argument have never shouldered a brace. 
So yeah, its basically all bullshit for all the reasons you listed and more. LOP? Come on, you can make the LOP anything you want as long as it's less than 13.5" apparently. Cheek weld? Braces and stocks are both round on top...that's not rocket science. If adjustability is your thing then the pictures above debunk that. Stability? The KAK is built like a brick shit house when paired with the KAK tube. The ONLY reason you'd pay $200 and wait a year is for a very specific stock or for looks alone. To me that's not worth it. The braces seem to provide more legal flexibility, all the functionality of a stock, and don't require me to invite the man in to my life. I'll be buying one of the above options I do believe. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 8:06:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Just got off the phone with a 2A attorney, he runs a somewhat prolific blog on the side and says he's gonna write about this very soon. He says the language used doesn't clearly state that it is legal to intentionally use a brace as a shoulder stock. He said it looks like by their use of "incidental" on the 3rd page that under ATF opinion if you accidentally were to shoulder it unintentionally, you wouldn't be in possession of an illegal SBR, but there's nothing in the letter to suggest that an intentional use of a brace for no other purpose than as a shoulder stock is legal.
He did find it very interesting that SB tactical and several other gun blogs called this a "reversal" and he noted that the ATF is not a legislative body and they can't change the law under any circumstance. In conclusion, he said all he would draw from the letter are these two things: It's illegal just to modify a brace and stick it on your pistol, as it turns it into an illegal SBR. And secondly, if you "incidentally" shoulder the pistol brace unintentionally, that doesn't count as a "redesign" according to the letter. He told me I probably shouldn't shoulder my brace until ATF at least clarifies what they mean by all this, because it would be a tough defense to bring up that letter in court. Ambiguity of the law is the last thing you want in a legal defense, apparently. If/when he writes about this I'll link it here. It didn't sound like I was the first one to call him today about this lol. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 8:11:05 PM EDT
[#48]
Wonderful down time reading this thread is. What I learned is that this new letter clarifies under what conditions a brace becomes a stock. If there are any issues with the kak brace it is because the current version may be different than what was submitted to the atf for evaluation.
I personally have been banking on the tailhook brace. It appears to incorporate the best features of both stocks and braces. If it comes to market reliably I feel it could overtake both conventional braces and sbr's. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 8:13:11 PM EDT
[#49]
We should all be thanking SB Tactical for inventing, and creating the first brace, and--yes--thanking the ATF for approving braces in the first place (because they didn't have to ya know).
In my 40+ years gun rights have never been nearly this good. And we got most of these rights under the most anti gun president in US history. In fact, I'm certain Obama's attacks on gun rights spurred a movement that otherwise would not have existed (thanks to state Republicans of course, not Obama). I truly am taken aback by it all. The removal of suppressors (and I hope SBR's, but now it hardly matters) from the NFA will be the piece de resistance. Salad days indeed. Soak it up fellas! This is what freedom tastes like! Winning elections has consequences... |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 8:22:58 PM EDT
[#50]
This entire argument is exactly why the NFA shoudl go away. How many hours have been wasted by the ATF trying to make sense of something as stupid as a brace.
Personally, I think they should have said "You can only have a brace on your pistol if you have a disability that warrants the need." What able-bodied moron out there actually uses a brace for the purpose it was designed? Who wants to have a firearm attached to their body? It's fucking retarded. So by allowing people to shoulder these, they're essentially negated the need for people to go through the process of getting an SBR. Buy a pistol received, buy this stupid brace, and use it as a stock. Why not just say, "Go ahead and put a regular stock on it"? THIS shows just how stupid the whole SBR thing even is if they're pretty much allowing it to happen. |
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