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Posted: 3/25/2017 12:29:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They'll fuck it up the same way they did health care reform.... by doing nothing. They've had seven years to come up with an alternate plan, and RINOcare is the best they can do? It works like this: Get government out of health care. Let insurance companies sell across state line. Tort reform to weed out bogus lawsuits. Tax reform: Flat tax. You, me, Bill Gates: How much did you make: Fine, give up 15%. Companies, nonprofits, whoever: 15%. Economy: End foreign aid as much as possible. We give money to HAMAS, for fuck's sake. Pay down the national debt, start upgrading our infrastructure. End "Quantative Easing", all we're doing is printing money that we pay the Federal Reserve for anyway. Speaking of which, eliminate the Fed, And the I-M Bank, Boeing is the primary benficiary and is outsourcing to China anyway. Sink or swim, fuckers. Presto, jobs galore and the economy roars to life like it did under Reagan. 1911fan |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 12:32:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except that the Republicans weren't supposed to put up a bad bill. That is their failure, and it was massive. Don't spin it into a victory for the American people. |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 12:33:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing will be done. We've all been suckered into voting for these bums, thinking they were different from Dems. If anything is done, it'll only benefit the giant campaign funders and NOT the American people. Vote Democrat, go full Socialist, let them burn the bitch down and hope we come out the other side with an improved Constitutional Republic. Or Do what our fore fathers would do (did). |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 12:36:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except that the Republicans weren't supposed to put up a bad bill. That is their failure, and it was massive. Don't spin it into a victory for the American people. What would you rather have, 5 pounds of 100 percent pure shit or 5 pounds of 99 percent pure shit with the other 1 percent being gold sprinkles? |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 2:41:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Trump is learning just how fucking big the swamp is. Something like draining the Atlantic Ocean!!
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Posted: 3/25/2017 2:43:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think it is possible to replace enough RINOs with Conservatives at this point. I think we are now down to 2 options: Vote Democrat, go full Socialist, let them burn the bitch down and hope we come out the other side with an improved Constitutional Republic. Or Do what our fore fathers would do (did). |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 2:45:56 PM EDT
[#7]
How the fuck are they supposed to reform taxes without first tackling the entitlements attached to Obamacare?
They can't. Period. Meteor 2017! |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 3:05:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, Ryan and McConnell will certainly find a way.... |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 3:08:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How the fuck are they supposed to reform taxes without first tackling the entitlements attached to Obamacare? They can't. Period. Meteor 2017! Of course, they won't actually cut spending to pay for the tax cuts, but that won't blow up on us until after all of those people are out of office. |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 3:11:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How the fuck are they supposed to reform taxes without first tackling the entitlements attached to Obamacare? They can't. Period. Meteor 2017! |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 3:13:13 PM EDT
[#11]
I don't know how they will fuck it up, but I'm sure they will find a way.
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Posted: 3/25/2017 3:14:01 PM EDT
[#12]
So - caveat this with the fact that it is very early in the administration.
But they're going to fuck it op for the same reason they fucked up healthcare and there were 17 primary candidates. There is no ideology that unites the R party. And - as was pointed out repeatedly but oh well - Trump is by temperament absolutely not the guy to ideologically unite the party. (the guy who said "Eh, I don't really have time to read, I just know how stuff works). He's certainly not going to push a simple tax code that promotes trade and growth. (most of what he's said so far about economics is wrong). In short, it's not the same as making money from real estate and entertaining people. But perhaps we'll be surprised. Predicting politics over the last year or so has been pretty iffy. |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 3:21:29 PM EDT
[#13]
I cannot wait to see what RyanTax looks like. I need to microwave some popcorn beforehand.
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Posted: 3/25/2017 3:28:43 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm sure all of you are sending messages to your Congresscritter, telling them you want REAL tax reform?
I can guarantee the lobbyists are in their offices every day. |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 3:29:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure they can. Nothing stops them from lower taxes, and I expect that they will. Of course, they won't actually cut spending to pay for the tax cuts, but that won't blow up on us until after all of those people are out of office. |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 3:46:12 PM EDT
[#16]
They need to stop writing these large comprehensive bills. If Republicans agree that corporate taxes need lowered then pass a bill doing that and only that. If they want to remove certain deductions, pass a bill doing that. Some things will pass and some won't but it will prevent the entire legislation from failing because of a few disagreements.
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Posted: 3/25/2017 3:59:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A) They will put forth a bill that they know damn well no Conservative and no Democrat will vote for. Nothing gets done and they move onto fucking up the next thing. B) They will work with Democrats to pass a Bill into law that no Conservative will support, that takes money from the middle class and gives it to the FSA. C) They work with Conservatives to pass a Bill that is good for America. I'm going with B. |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 4:07:10 PM EDT
[#18]
IIRC, Melting Mitch McConnell has already said the Senate won't be taking up tax reform because they don't have time...because they have to take vacation.
ETA: Incorrect. Melting Mitch said they won't have time to do it by August. That said, they'll find a way not to do it (or to worsen the problem). |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 4:22:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Easily.
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Posted: 3/25/2017 4:42:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone familiar with the game of "tax reform" can predict that any bill which makes major changes in the tax code will be followed by a "technical corrections bill". The interval between those bills is filled with lobbying ... and the all important campaign contributions. |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 5:13:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They need to stop writing these large comprehensive bills. If Republicans agree that corporate taxes need lowered then pass a bill doing that and only that. If they want to remove certain deductions, pass a bill doing that. Some things will pass and some won't but it will prevent the entire legislation from failing because of a few disagreements. |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 5:25:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They'll fuck it up the same way they did health care reform.... by doing nothing. They've had seven years to come up with an alternate plan, and RINOcare is the best they can do? It works like this: Get government out of health care. Let insurance companies sell across state line. Tort reform to weed out bogus lawsuits. Tax reform: Flat tax. You, me, Bill Gates: How much did you make: Fine, give up 15%. Companies, nonprofits, whoever: 15%. Economy: End foreign aid as much as possible. We give money to HAMAS, for fuck's sake. Pay down the national debt, start upgrading our infrastructure. End "Quantative Easing", all we're doing is printing money that we pay the Federal Reserve for anyway. Speaking of which, eliminate the Fed, And the I-M Bank, Boeing is the primary benficiary and is outsourcing to China anyway. Sink or swim, fuckers. Presto, jobs galore and the economy roars to life like it did under Reagan. 1911fan |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 5:32:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Every time Legislators mess with the tax code, it costs money, guess who pays for that.
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Posted: 3/25/2017 8:43:48 PM EDT
[#24]
I am sure president Ryan will come up with a good plan.
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Posted: 3/25/2017 11:08:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No leadership,no cohesion,no goals (other than to get re-elected),no unity,no loyalty.......ad infinitum. Pass a modest bill/law so midterms come and we can all say we did half of what you told us to but vote us back in so we do the other half. Democrats have a long game. They will lose elections to advance an agenda because they are confident they will win again. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 8:22:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They need to stop writing these large comprehensive bills. If Republicans agree that corporate taxes need lowered then pass a bill doing that and only that. If they want to remove certain deductions, pass a bill doing that. Some things will pass and some won't but it will prevent the entire legislation from failing because of a few disagreements. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 8:24:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Income tax shouldn't be a thing. Period. Any thoughts on what replaces it? And how do you suggest we fund spending more on defense than the next 7 countries combined if income tax goes away? (I'm not directly arguing we shouldn't spend that much on defense, but the fact is we do). |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 8:25:12 AM EDT
[#28]
dup post
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Posted: 3/26/2017 8:30:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So - caveat this with the fact that it is very early in the administration. But they're going to fuck it op for the same reason they fucked up healthcare and there were 17 primary candidates. There is no ideology that unites the R party. And - as was pointed out repeatedly but oh well - Trump is by temperament absolutely not the guy to ideologically unite the party. (the guy who said "Eh, I don't really have time to read, I just know how stuff works). He's certainly not going to push a simple tax code that promotes trade and growth. (most of what he's said so far about economics is wrong). In short, it's not the same as making money from real estate and entertaining people. But perhaps we'll be surprised. Predicting politics over the last year or so has been pretty iffy. I don't see what the big rush is (other than stupid campaign promises) - Obamacare took something like 13 months to push through Congress and everyone talks about how it was "rammed" through. And so the GOP responds by trying to speed through something in roughly 2 weeks? Dumb. Start over, take some time to craft something decent and maybe the GOP can pull a win out of this. Or they can just quit and go on to tax reform / infrastructure / whatever. I'm betting it's going to be the latter... |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 8:32:56 AM EDT
[#30]
letting Ryan handle it is a good way to fuck it up.
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Posted: 3/26/2017 8:40:23 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you thought health care was a complicated issue, just wait until Congress gets into the nuts and bolts of changing the tax system. I'll predict right now that nothing will be done, given the fractured nature of the Republican Party. And Trump blew a lot of his political capital on the Obamacare repeal fiasco. https://abetterway.speaker.gov/_assets/pdf/ABetterWay-Tax-PolicyPaper.pdf This is the one that Grover Norquist said at CPAC in 2012 that it was ready to go they just needed to elect a president to sign it. Some people may not like the plan, but it's out there, and the big think tanks that pay the bills for all of the GOP including the Freedom Caucus more or less support it. If they can't pass it or something similar to it, they have no excuse. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 8:47:47 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC, Melting Mitch McConnell has already said the Senate won't be taking up tax reform because they don't have time...because they have to take vacation. ETA: Incorrect. Melting Mitch said they won't have time to do it by August. That said, they'll find a way not to do it (or to worsen the problem). |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 8:49:26 AM EDT
[#33]
There will be no "tax reform", not now, not ever. There will be some fiddling with the rates and some minor changes to the code. There will never be a simple income times x equals tax, flat rate, penny plan, etc.
Why? Because the tax code is how power is wielded by Congress, how pet projects are funded, how donors are rewarded, and how political theater is written. It's the main lifeblood of accountants and a large portion of the legal community. It benefits the very wealthy inn the form of deductions, breaks, favorable business related tax adjustments, etc. It's a way to pay off the poor to vote they way the Democrats want them to vote. It's how leftist social programs are advanced. There is an incredibly large food chain dependent upon the current system. It will not go away. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 8:52:24 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There will be no "tax reform", not now, not ever. There will be some fiddling with the rates and some minor changes to the code. There will never be a simple income times x equals tax, flat rate, penny plan, etc. Why? Because the tax code is how power is wielded by Congress, how pet projects are funded, how donors are rewarded, and how political theater is written. It's the main lifeblood of accountants and a large portion of the legal community. It benefits the very wealthy inn the form of deductions, breaks, favorable business related tax adjustments, etc. It's a way to pay off the poor to vote they way the Democrats want them to vote. It's how leftist social programs are advanced. There is an incredibly large food chain dependent upon the current system. It will not go away. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 8:55:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How the fuck are they supposed to reform taxes without first tackling the entitlements attached to Obamacare? They can't. Period. Meteor 2017! |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 9:00:41 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every time Legislators mess with anything, it costs money, guess who pays for that. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 9:04:05 AM EDT
[#37]
Same way they're fucking up health care, they'll change one page of code that means absolutely nothing and say they're making America great again
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Posted: 3/26/2017 9:06:32 AM EDT
[#38]
So OP doesn't won't tax reform? Any thing to reduce the tax burden is welcome compared to the Democrat desire to increase them.
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Posted: 3/26/2017 9:17:45 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's depressing to watch, whenever the Democrats are the minority party they still manage to gum up the works, the Republicans just got steam rolled when they were the minority. The Republicans hold all the cards right now and they still refuse to act like it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
At least the Democrats have their shit together The Republicans hold all the cards right now and they still refuse to act like it. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 9:34:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but with $20 Trillion of debt, the society needs higher taxes to pay for it.
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Posted: 3/26/2017 9:40:28 AM EDT
[#41]
I don't know how they are going to fuck it up but the simplification of the tax code will increase the number of pages by 22% and require a Manhatten Plan style emergency education of tens of thousands CPAs. The bright side is that such massive "tax reform" attempts end up being "Tax Lawyers' and Accountants' Relief Acts." If you're in one of those professions, you hope and pray for such things. Manna from heaven. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 9:46:20 AM EDT
[#42]
POLYTHENEPAM wrote:
Anyone familiar with the game of "tax reform" can predict that any bill which makes major changes in the tax code will be followed by a "technical corrections bill".
The interval between those bills is filled with lobbying ... and the all important campaign contributions. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 9:46:58 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Big talk no action. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 9:48:53 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same way they're fucking up health care, they'll change one page of code that means absolutely nothing and say they're making America great again |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 10:57:16 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you thought health care was a complicated issue, just wait until Congress gets into the nuts and bolts of changing the tax system. I'll predict right now that nothing will be done, given the fractured nature of the Republican Party. And Trump blew a lot of his political capital on the Obamacare repeal fiasco. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 11:21:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but with $20 Trillion of debt, the society needs higher taxes to pay for it. Simplification would mean wiping out all the perverse incentives in the code which long term would mean more growth and economic efficiency, As far as the debt, we need higher tax revenues and lower spending. Both. This is pretty much just math. This means reigning in defense spending and entitlements. Period. Reigning in entitlements does not need to actually be that painful - but it will be portrayed as painful and is political suicide. So much money goes to older wealthy people already in ssI and health transfer payments. Just needs testing those benefits by itself would be a huge savings. But then we'lll see all the bullshit adds about rolling grandma off teh cliff in a wheelchair and the AARP come out in forth and blah blah blah "heartless Republicans" blah blah. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 11:24:44 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So OP doesn't won't tax reform? Any thing to reduce the tax burden is welcome compared to the Democrat desire to increase them. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 11:35:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Tax bill fail will come from two phases:
1) Media will run headlines 24/7 about how the new 'tax bill' will only 'benefit the rich and cut essential services of the poor', regardless of what the bill actually does. This will start before the bill is actually shown. 2) Republicans will contort themselves and the bill to 'prove' how it's NOT benefitting the rich as the headlines claim, neutering it and watering it down to the point that it becomes just another give-away program with NO meaningful tax changes at all, at which point no one will vote for it claiming it either doesn't do enough or isn't defict-neutral. |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 11:44:52 AM EDT
[#49]
This is a problem with current politics when politicians only care about what will get them elected in the short term vs. long-term good of The People. Everything is ad-hoc and not a lot of thought has been put into things. It's amazing this country has lasted as long as it has.
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Posted: 3/26/2017 12:18:26 PM EDT
[#50]
They will go heavy for Corp tax reform and very little for the working man and that will kill it all.
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