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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:26:14 AM EDT
[#1]
Gonna be good when they replace Ryan with Pence.
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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:27:42 AM EDT
[#2]
I think it's a power play to force Ryan's hand. Ryan is going to come off looking completely incompetent and Trump is going to come in and help them pass something acceptable after Ryan is gone.
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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:29:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
*Nice* revisionist history, RDak. 
http://i.imgur.com/yy3Swoa.jpg  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDLVFjPKm2oHe made a mistake and I am sure Trump realizes Ryan is worthless but that is who the dumbasses in Congress elected for Speaker..........so..................Trump HAS TO WORK WITH HIM. That is the real world. But Trump hoping Ryan would be worth more than a piece of shit and placating him for a time was a mistake on Trump's part, that much I do admit. But to say Ryan is NOT a nevertrumper at heart is ignoring the facts of the entire election season. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:30:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You just linked Trump praising Ryan. Do you have any of Ryan praising Trump? Ryan is a #NeverTrumper. You should be licking his boots. 
So, yeah, I guess not much or something. Paul Ryan is a fucking pathetic loser sellout. I've never once said that I 'stood' with Paul fucking Ryan on anything. 
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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:31:04 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it's a power play to force Ryan's hand. Ryan is going to come off looking completely incompetent and Trump is going to come in and help them pass something acceptable after Ryan is gone. He gave the Speaker a chance and the Speaker fucked up because he is worthless. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:32:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course that is what Trump is doing. He gave the Speaker a chance and the Speaker fucked up because he is worthless. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think it's a power play to force Ryan's hand. Ryan is going to come off looking completely incompetent and Trump is going to come in and help them pass something acceptable after Ryan is gone. He gave the Speaker a chance and the Speaker fucked up because he is worthless. That should count for something. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:33:02 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
633,000 results, as per Google.
So, yeah, I guess not much or something. Paul Ryan is a fucking pathetic loser sellout. I've never once said that I 'stood' with Paul fucking Ryan on anything. http://i.imgur.com/yveFhWT.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You just linked Trump praising Ryan. Do you have any of Ryan praising Trump? Ryan is a #NeverTrumper. You should be licking his boots.
So, yeah, I guess not much or something. Paul Ryan is a fucking pathetic loser sellout. I've never once said that I 'stood' with Paul fucking Ryan on anything. http://i.imgur.com/yveFhWT.jpg |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:33:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is trying to make amends with Ryan in hopes that that fuckstick would actually DO SOMETHING. He made a mistake and I am sure Trump realizes Ryan is worthless but that is who the dumbasses in Congress elected for Speaker..........so..................Trump HAS TO WORK WITH HIM. That is the real world. But Trump hoping Ryan would be worth more than a piece of shit and placating him for a time was a mistake on Trump's part, that much I do admit. But to say Ryan is NOT a nevertrumper at heart is ignoring the facts of the entire election season. 
This is why conservatives never get shit done. 
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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:34:30 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's funny is that you and I both despise Paul Ryan in basically the same way and for the same reasons, and yet we can still somehow find a way to argue about it.
This is why conservatives never get shit done. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He is trying to make amends with Ryan in hopes that that fuckstick would actually DO SOMETHING. He made a mistake and I am sure Trump realizes Ryan is worthless but that is who the dumbasses in Congress elected for Speaker..........so..................Trump HAS TO WORK WITH HIM. That is the real world. But Trump hoping Ryan would be worth more than a piece of shit and placating him for a time was a mistake on Trump's part, that much I do admit. But to say Ryan is NOT a nevertrumper at heart is ignoring the facts of the entire election season.
This is why conservatives never get shit done. Are you referring that all Republicans are conservatives? |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:35:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm pretty sure if Ryan started doing some Trump bashing you would be loving some Ryansauce. 
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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:35:52 AM EDT
[#11]
Fuck it I don't care anymore
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Posted: 3/24/2017 6:37:44 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's funny is that you and I both despise Paul Ryan in basically the same way and for the same reasons, and yet we can still somehow find a way to argue about it.
This is why conservatives never get shit done. I simply do not know who is controlling his puppet strings because in the final analysis his fucking proposal is basically a watered down Obamacare bill that does NOT do what he was elected to do by the voters. The guy is either in an alternate universe or his donors/manipulators are having him promote this useless fucking bill. Something is off with him.............what exactly that is I don't know but something is WAY OFF with Ryan. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:04:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ryan is a fucking worthless leader...........this is turning out to be one of the biggest failures I have ever seen. All these fucking years of talk and they weren't ready when it came time............all smoke and fucking mirrors. Fuck I hate politicians.  |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:12:22 AM EDT
[#14]
More Kabuki from the GOP, Rinocare was never going to pass and the establishment wanted to keep the clusterfuck of Obamacare. It will be blamed on the few Conservatives left and they will be subsequently destroyed; welcome to the Progressive future, left and right.
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:14:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ryan knows what he's doing. Drive out the Conservatives and Libertarians. Make the Republican Party the party of RINOs. Trump is powerless to stop him. Trump needs Ryan but Ryan doesn't need Trump. The people were heard and the RINOs have told us to go screw ourselves or get in line. The only choice we're getting is Socialism or Socialism-lite. Trump is a populist not a conservative so he doesn't mind supporting Ryancare. That's why he is demanding the vote now with no changes recommended. It is close enough to what he said he wanted all along. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ryan is a fucking worthless leader...........this is turning out to be one of the biggest failures I have ever seen. All these fucking years of talk and they weren't ready when it came time............all smoke and fucking mirrors. Fuck I hate politicians. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:15:33 AM EDT
[#16]
This thread has really brought out the nevertrumpers in force.
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:39:09 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread has really brought out the nevertrumpers in force. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:39:58 AM EDT
[#18]
Few want to acknowledge or seem to grasp that in the end it was never getting repealed or replaced without 60 votes in the Senate so eight Democrats would be needed. It was never getting to Trump's desk for a signature or veto regardless of what the House does today or Monday or whenever with the current Senate makeup and rules.
The House should have straight up repealed it like they have frequently done in the past then that repeal would die in the Senate, which is the most I was expecting. Then the Republicans could campaign in 2018 on needing to add Senate seats to push the repeal through. No one (that understands how this works anyway) honestly believed Obamacare was going anywhere without 60 Senate votes. They aren't going to get the votes to change the rules to eliminate the filibuster on legislation with this crew either. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:46:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ryan knows what he's doing. Drive out the Conservatives and Libertarians. Make the Republican Party the party of RINOs. Trump is powerless to stop him. Trump needs Ryan but Ryan doesn't need Trump. The people were heard and the RINOs have told us to go screw ourselves or get in line. The only choice we're getting is Socialism or Socialism-lite. Trump is a populist not a conservative so he doesn't mind supporting Ryancare. That's why he is demanding the vote now with no changes recommended. It is close enough to what he said he wanted all along. Pick a news topic and reflect on how Congress responds to it as well as the utter bullshit found about it on social media and the MSM. Then compare all of that to the facts and the truth and ask yourself whether or not you are living in Russian-ist type country where the bullshit flows like vodka. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:46:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Few want to acknowledge or seem to grasp that in the end it was never getting repealed or replaced without 60 votes in the Senate so eight Democrats would be needed. It was never getting to Trump's desk for a signature or veto regardless of what the House does today or Monday or whenever with the current Senate makeup and rules. The House should have straight up repealed it like they have frequently done in the past then that repeal would die in the Senate, which is the most I was expecting. Then the Republicans could campaign in 2018 on needing to add Senate seats to push the repeal through. No one (that understands how this works anyway) honestly believed Obamacare was going anywhere without 60 Senate votes. They aren't going to get the votes to change the rules to eliminate the filibuster on legislation with this crew either. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:46:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You just linked Trump praising Ryan. Do you have any of Ryan praising Trump? Ryan is a #NeverTrumper. You should be licking his boots. Trump has supported this turd from the day Ryan presented it to him. He even threatened conservatives who didnt vote for this bill saying that they'll get primaried out. He was on TV yesterday saying that people should call those members who are planning on voting No to pressure them to vote for Ryan's bill That's not exactly taking on the GOPe, is it? It looks to me like he's taking on conservatives from trying to stop a horrible bill from being passed |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:50:00 AM EDT
[#22]
Let the uglier of the two stand, we can try again after midterms where we can vote a few of these rino assholes out.
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:52:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Amazing that Pelosi was 10x the speaker that ryan is. At least she got shit done for her party. Ryan is totally inept.
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:52:59 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They had 8 years to come up with their anti-obamacare legislation and they don't have shit. It's pathetic. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:58:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What option is there? The RINOS will block the conservatives from a full repeal. This is the closest compromise the GOP can possibly agree on. What can Trump do? He said he would not veto the new bill, he gave green light to do whatever. The fucking GOP can't even agree with itself. There can be no solution, we are fucked for now. However , lets agree to stop calling everything a fucking compromise. Know what's in Ryancare that's good for me? Nothing Know what's in Ryancare that's good for America in general ? Nothing. Compromise is NOT giving dems and or big gov whatever they want. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 7:59:34 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Amazing that Pelosi was 10x the speaker that ryan is. At least she got shit done for her party. Ryan is totally inept. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:02:00 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wasn't Trump supposed to be the ONLY guy who would take on the GOPe? We knew the GOPe was no fan of Trump so of course you wont find that praise. Trump has supported this turd from the day Ryan presented it to him. He even threatened conservatives who didnt vote for this bill saying that they'll get primaried out. He was on TV yesterday saying that people should call those members who are planning on voting No to pressure them to vote for Ryan's bill That's not exactly taking on the GOPe, is it? It looks to me like he's taking on conservatives from trying to stop a horrible bill from being passed I am frankly shocked you haven't been picked up as a consultant, or, even better, a candidate. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:04:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
your insight into politics is breathtaking. I am frankly shocked you haven't been picked up as a consultant, or, even better, a candidate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wasn't Trump supposed to be the ONLY guy who would take on the GOPe? We knew the GOPe was no fan of Trump so of course you wont find that praise. Trump has supported this turd from the day Ryan presented it to him. He even threatened conservatives who didnt vote for this bill saying that they'll get primaried out. He was on TV yesterday saying that people should call those members who are planning on voting No to pressure them to vote for Ryan's bill That's not exactly taking on the GOPe, is it? It looks to me like he's taking on conservatives from trying to stop a horrible bill from being passed I am frankly shocked you haven't been picked up as a consultant, or, even better, a candidate. Conservatives oppose this new healthcare bill Now, what side has Trump been actively supporting since the bill was introduced? There is no 4 dimensional chess that can explain this one away. Sorry |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:04:43 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Amazing that Pelosi was 10x the speaker that ryan is. At least she got shit done for her party. Ryan is totally inept. I remember "Save us Paul Ryan you are our only hope" and lots of peeps including myself said be careful what you wish for.
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:09:39 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GOPe supports this new healthcare bill Conservatives oppose this new healthcare bill Now, what side has Trump been actively supporting since the bill was introduced? There is no 4 dimensional chess that can explain this one away. Sorry |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:11:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Wrong hill to die on Trump...Don't cut your nose off to spite your face. Go back and get this done right no just slap lipstick on a pig.
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:11:33 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And yet with a simple tweet he could make Ryan own this failure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
GOPe supports this new healthcare bill Conservatives oppose this new healthcare bill Now, what side has Trump been actively supporting since the bill was introduced? There is no 4 dimensional chess that can explain this one away. Sorry Trump ran on repealing and replacing Obamacare just like those in congress did. He didnt run on "We'll try to pass something, it will fail, and then everyone will sit back and let Obamacare collapse" |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:16:20 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It looks like Ryan and Trump are on the same page. Ryan Care is Obama Care 2.0 it is not a repeal. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:17:43 AM EDT
[#34]
Have most of you actually read what's in this reconciliation?
It will make Obamacare seem like a walk in the park. There is literally nothing added to reduce costs, it removes things that would limit costs, and keeps things that will raise costs. I'm all for repealing Obamacare, but that can't be accomplished through reconciliation. It needs full repeal and a total rewrite. This is a faster way to implosion, except the Republicans will be blamed for it, and it will cause the implosion to accelerate. Trump is making the correct move - I surmise he may have known Ryan wouldn't be able to pull it together. With the current setup, he can blame Ryan and move on to the budget. I'd much rather NOT let Obamacare implode in order to fix it, but that may be the only way if the Dem's will filibuster any attempt at full repeal. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:21:43 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have most of you actually read what's in this reconciliation? It will make Obamacare seem like a walk in the park. There is literally nothing added to reduce costs, it removes things that would limit costs, and keeps things that will raise costs. I'm all for repealing Obamacare, but that can't be accomplished through reconciliation. It needs full repeal and a total rewrite. This is a faster way to implosion, except the Republicans will be blamed for it, and it will cause the implosion to accelerate. Trump is making the correct move - I surmise he may have known Ryan wouldn't be able to pull it together. With the current setup, he can blame Ryan and move on to the budget. I'd much rather NOT let Obamacare implode in order to fix it, but that may be the only way if the Dem's will filibuster any attempt at full repeal. Trump cannot spend weeks supporting this bill, telling congressmen that they will lose their seats if they vote No, and then have constituents flood their offices with calls to support the bill and then when it fails, say "It's not my problem" The President is the de-facto head of the party they belong to. Obama was the head of the Democrats, Bush was the head of the Republicans and so on. Trump can't say that the Republicans screwed up and say he had nothing to do with it. He should have kicked this thing back to Ryan from the beginning before the details saw the light of day |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:24:17 AM EDT
[#36]
Ehhhhhhh......
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:26:57 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how does it "collapse"? what are indications and ramifications and probable responses by industry and consumers? Many families are paying > $1500 a MONTH in premiums. I'd say that's pretty damn close. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:28:06 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wrong move Mr President. This. Why the fuck did he hitch his wagon to the biggest nevertrumper? |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:30:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want Obamacare to burn. Don't replace it. Let it collapse and realize just how much of a fucking incompetent idiot the jug eared fool was. The president who is so terrified of his legacy, he's vacationing in a third world country to avoid it. It's been a concern of mine that no matter how well the "replacement" worked, the GOP would "own" the inevitable fallout over the next couple years. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:30:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BS Trump cannot spend weeks supporting this bill, telling congressmen that they will lose their seats if they vote No, and then have constituents flood their offices with calls to support the bill and then when it fails, say "It's not my problem" The President is the de-facto head of the party they belong to. Obama was the head of the Democrats, Bush was the head of the Republicans and so on. Trump can't say that the Republicans screwed up and say he had nothing to do with it. He should have kicked this thing back to Ryan from the beginning before the details saw the light of day Trump should have killed this version well before it saw the light of day. But given where we are now, he's making the correct move. He CAN blame Ryan for this. The President is the leader of the party but is dependent on Congress to act so he can sign. If his own party is sabotaging his work, it's an option to fight them. Ryan and company are no stranger to fucking things up. The good news is Trump is handling this different than politicians. A politician would either force something through that is garbage or keep whining about it and inevitably get nothing done. Trump is cutting his losses and moving on to something more productive. - I don't think every move he's made is the correct one, but he's doing things different than Ryan and company did in the past. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:30:42 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not necessarily a bad idea. With no mandate, ACA WILL implode. The question is how soon. Hopefully, Repubs are in control when it does and they can shape the replacement. if there is no repeal of obamacare, the GOP loses at least one house in 2018. Trump if fucking up more than I can describe. With a split gov, there will be 2 to 6 years of stagnation. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:34:29 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm actually leaning this direction. It's been a concern of mine that no matter how well the "replacement" worked, the GOP would "own" the inevitable fallout over the next couple years. Think about what you're saying and how it will affect people. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:44:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You want to be paying $2000+ per month for health insurance while waiting for this thing to implode? Think about what you're saying and how it will affect people. The best option is full repeal. If the Dems will filibuster, then the next best option is leaving it to implode on its own. If you make the changes on the table now, that $2000+ premium will go to $3000+ premiums. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:45:07 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You want to be paying $2000+ per month for health insurance while waiting for this thing to implode? Think about what you're saying and how it will affect people. If it fails on Trumps watch, we'll lose seats in the mid terms and Trump will be a single term president. The media drives the narrative and the populace will follow. I'm pissed that such a POS replacement was floated to congress. Trump supported it, there are plenty of transcripts and sound bites to prove it. There's no way this makes him look good. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:53:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GOPe supports this new healthcare bill Conservatives oppose this new healthcare bill Now, what side has Trump been actively supporting since the bill was introduced? There is no 4 dimensional chess that can explain this one away. Sorry Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wasn't Trump supposed to be the ONLY guy who would take on the GOPe? We knew the GOPe was no fan of Trump so of course you wont find that praise. Trump has supported this turd from the day Ryan presented it to him. He even threatened conservatives who didnt vote for this bill saying that they'll get primaried out. He was on TV yesterday saying that people should call those members who are planning on voting No to pressure them to vote for Ryan's bill That's not exactly taking on the GOPe, is it? It looks to me like he's taking on conservatives from trying to stop a horrible bill from being passed I am frankly shocked you haven't been picked up as a consultant, or, even better, a candidate. Conservatives oppose this new healthcare bill Now, what side has Trump been actively supporting since the bill was introduced? There is no 4 dimensional chess that can explain this one away. Sorry A true conservative can't win the presidency in these times. You'll never convince me otherwise. So that leaves Rino's or Dems. Both of which are death knells to our freedom, tanking middle class, Rapefugees, and Free Market, non-Gov't Healthcare, etc. Trump is actively creating jobs, reducing regulation, and exposing the massive corruption in our .gov. Those are things that no conservative in office for the past 20+ years has been doing. Time's UP and Draining the Swamp is a Fan-Fucking-Tastic start !!! |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:53:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure you did...how about this fact...Trump has zero control on what the congress wants to put up or vote on..he can make suggestions, that's it....but somehow in your mind he is 100% responsible still...My guess, Trump is doing what he has to in order to get a bill that does exactly what he promised voters it would do...you know...ART OF THE DEAL...... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I stated a very simple and undeniable fact. No need to be pissy about it. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:54:27 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hear you - but if they can't do full repeal - any reconciliation will only make those premiums worse. The best option is full repeal. If the Dems will filibuster, then the next best option is leaving it to implode on its own. If you make the changes on the table now, that $2000+ premium will go to $3000+ premiums. They can only undo the stuff done through reconciliation and as you say those are all things that will probably make it look worse. I don't know what all was done through reconciliation, but would be nice if they could at least remove the employer mandates and individual mandates IMO. Unfortunately, they don't have the votes to keep the shit ship known as obamacare from doing more damage on the way down. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:57:44 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think most people understand that the full "repeal & replace" would require a filibuster proof majority of 60 in the Senate. They can only undo the stuff done through reconciliation and as you say those are all things that will probably make it look worse. I don't know what all was done through reconciliation, but would be nice if they could at least remove the employer mandates and individual mandates IMO. Unfortunately, they don't have the votes to keep the shit ship known as obamacare from doing more damage on the way down. Just having Pence as president of the senate make a decision that these changes DO affect the Federal budget, which they all do, and this will all fall under reconciliation and..........VOILA, Obamacare is repealed and replaced with only 51 votes. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:59:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Terrible idea. It makes most of Obamacare permanent. The only thing I can think is this is a gamble by Trump. He has basically given Ryan what he wants, and has come out publicly and supported Ryan's efforts. So, if the Ryan Bill fails, trump can then say, "see, I tried to work with these people. The house of representatives has failed to pass legislation to repeal Obamacare. See how ineffective they are, we need new House leadership!" Of course, the downside is that, if the bill actually passes, Trump has put himself in a position that he basically has to sign it or he will be seen for a liar for giving all of his support to the bill. But, as has been pointed out, it doesn't look like this thing will make it out of the Senate even if the else manages to pass it. So, I'm holding out hope that Trump continues to play for 4-D chess and is about to put his enemies in the GOP establishment over a barrel. This post dictated to an iPhone, so I hold Apple responsible for all spelling and grammatical errors. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 9:00:18 AM EDT
[#50]
Kill Obamacare. Period.
Don't amend it or fix it. Kill it. |
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