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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:28:53 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. It would be hilarious to go back and read through all those old threads, if it wasn't so terrifying Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I noticed we have suddenly progressed past the whole, it can't possibly happen, narrative. Now we are in the, well there's not much that can be done about it, narrative. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:29:29 AM EDT
[#2]
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A lot of them were making a shit-ton of money and living it up in northern VA the last decade. The gravy train makes for a lot of rationalization. There are people no longer in my circle of friends over that. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:30:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really, but nuance was never your strong suit. That's not nuance. We were laughed at and mocked for it. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:32:02 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A helicopter ride will help clear their minds. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:32:30 AM EDT
[#5]
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I'm not fucking joking. 
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:38:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many of us have been under the belief that various intelligence agencies are operating wothout any effective oversight and are operating outside the bounds of the law with no punishment for quite a while now. It isn't possible to keep the government secure without keeping track of those who are governed. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:38:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I suspect that if you went back and took an honest look at what was discussed, and when, you would find that as the accusations changed so to did the conversations, leading to the false impression of "evolving" positions. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:39:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was leaked at high levels. The widespread distribution was done in order to cover the trail of the leak. IMO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Agreed. Incidental collection was likely a non-issue given the circumstances known at the time. Release of the details (if it came through our people) is a big deal. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:41:32 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The task of those agencies is to keep the government secure. It isn't possible to keep the government secure without keeping track of those who are governed. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:43:04 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I suspect that if you went back and took an honest look at what was discussed, and when, you would find that as the accusations changed so to did the conversations, leading to the false impression of "evolving" positions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I noticed we have suddenly progressed past the whole, it can't possibly happen, narrative. Now we are in the, well there's not much that can be done about it, narrative. I still believe the majority those in the IC are honorable. It's just a fact that there will always be bad actors in any organization. It's human nature. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:44:04 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I recall posting a hypothetical that was strangely close to what we are looking at now. There were posts saying it's not really possible. No one person has the ability to extract that specific information at someone's direction. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:47:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many of us have been under the belief that various intelligence agencies are operating wothout any effective oversight and are operating outside the bounds of the law with no punishment for quite a while now. That's not nuance. We were laughed at and mocked for it. Most folks get all frothy trying to label me as a NOVA bootlicking shitheel apologist and ignore the fact that I have agreed over the years that these agencies could do with a bit more of both. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:48:55 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We heard that for months and were routinely TRASHED for being novices and idiots for even suggesting such a thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I recall posting a hypothetical that was strangely close to what we are looking at now. There were posts saying it's not really possible. No one person has the ability to extract that specific information at someone's direction. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:50:07 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The common assertions were that there was "no oversight" and "no consequences". When it was pointed out that there was indeed mandated oversight and violators were detected, caught, and punished the discussion turned to matters of degree. Most folks get all frothy trying to label me as a NOVA bootlicking shitheel apologist and ignore the fact that I have agreed over the years that these agencies could do with a bit more of both. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Many of us have been under the belief that various intelligence agencies are operating wothout any effective oversight and are operating outside the bounds of the law with no punishment for quite a while now. That's not nuance. We were laughed at and mocked for it. Most folks get all frothy trying to label me as a NOVA bootlicking shitheel apologist and ignore the fact that I have agreed over the years that these agencies could do with a bit more of both. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:54:41 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes you have repeatedly said that. I don't deny that. To your other point, Obama's last minute change to the data sharing rules was a head scratcher. I doubt it works quite like some folks here believe but I'm not up to speed on the details. The key agencies we are talking about all had (and were required to have) their own minimization procedures which were in place under previous methods of requesting access to FISA collections. I don't see any reason why that would change under new guidance. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 11:57:12 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then again thinking about it now my hypothetical may have been before Obama's change in dissemination rules. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:02:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um, she won the popular vote by 2 million. It was surprise to just about everyone when the electoral college went the other way. The electoral college performed exactly as designed. The Constitution wins again. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:04:19 PM EDT
[#18]
I'm curious as to what investigation was being done if it wasn't related to Russia and how it appears that the Obama admin ordered it.
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:04:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the popular vote means nothing, rightly so. the 2 million is tied up in three states. Trump won the majority of states, which is how the election is supposed to work. The electoral college performed exactly as designed. The Constitution wins again. California SOS numbers. Hugh wants California to run the country. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:06:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ohhh intellectuals. Those same intellectuals will call people racist for citing statistics, and equate patriotism with nationalism (code for 1930s germany.) As long as you use $10 words for worthless hyperbole, it's okay cause muh progress Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why should I trust them? They haven't been honest at all. If one of your Marines said all the shit Clapper and the "muh safeguards" brigade on here spouted, would you trust him at all? Those same intellectuals will call people racist for citing statistics, and equate patriotism with nationalism (code for 1930s germany.) As long as you use $10 words for worthless hyperbole, it's okay cause muh progress 
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:08:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm curious as to what investigation was being done if it wasn't related to Russia and how it appears that the Obama admin ordered it. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:11:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um, she won the popular vote by 2 million. It was surprise to just about everyone when the electoral college went the other way. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:14:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Against the Russians. If I called the Russian Embassy, or if I received a call from the Russian Embassy, I would expect those calls to be "under surveillance." If I walked past the Russian Embassy, I would expect that I would be "under surveillance." Does that mean that I am under surveillance, or being investigated? No. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:17:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Strange, he was well ahead in the popular vote when we knew the EC vote. It took California 2 weeks to translate their results from Spanish to English and dig up all the ballots from the closets etc before Hillary got more irrelevant votes than our President Trump. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:19:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
unless your identity is unmasked. At that point your are under surveillance, illegally. The law is pretty clear on this point. As long as your information is redacted, you are good. The minute it isn't, you are now a target. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:19:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, the check boxes are different in English vs Spanish, or Donald and Hillary are spelled differently? What were they translating?! And regardless of your personal feelings, there is no official language in the United States. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:21:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And we do not know who has been unmasked. It has not been released yet. There has been speculation that it has been Flynn and perhaps a few others. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:24:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The task of those agencies is to keep the government secure. It isn't possible to keep the government secure without keeping track of those who are governed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Many of us have been under the belief that various intelligence agencies are operating wothout any effective oversight and are operating outside the bounds of the law with no punishment for quite a while now. It isn't possible to keep the government secure without keeping track of those who are governed. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:36:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
47 harddrives with 600 millionpages of info going back on judges and other high level people. This may be why Roberts screwed us on ObamaCare. http://investmentwatchblog.com/fbi-director-james-comey-lied-to-congress-about-trump-surveillance/ https://i.redd.it/vsmhpln3e2ny.png Unlike all the other players in this drama, Klayman has a source and is naming names and events. Also chipping away at the notion of "but...safeguards" with Montgomery following the process for his whistleblowing and the lack of activity since. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:43:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still believe the majority those in the IC are honorable. It's just a fact that there will always be bad actors in any organization. It's human nature. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:50:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To your other point, Obama's last minute change to the data sharing rules was a head scratcher. 
The reason is as plain as the nose on the rest of our faces. Disseminating the information to many agencies increases the number of potential suspects. That makes finding the person who released the information much more difficult. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:50:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are directions on these forms. And regardless of your personal feelings, there is no official language in the United States. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 1:08:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. It would be hilarious to go back and read through all those old threads, if it wasn't so terrifying Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I noticed we have suddenly progressed past the whole, it can't possibly happen, narrative. Now we are in the, well there's not much that can be done about it, narrative. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 1:40:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If Unmasked = American and > 1 Then Who = Irrelevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And we do not know who has been unmasked. It has not been released yet. There has been speculation that it has been Flynn and perhaps a few others. But, you're asking us to believe that a government(not just an administration) that ran F&F, targeted citizens of a certain political bent with the IRS, all this done by humans in contravention to established rules, procedures, law; never once, has someone been directed or taken upon themselves to use capabilities in an improper manner, outside of publicly disclosed occurrences. I'm certain I've over simplified your position(actually guarantee it ), but the best I can tell is, "It's unlikely this has happened in the manner described, and if it did, it will be handled." Basically, the people over there fucked up, but these people over here didn't.
We're supposed to believe, despite the IC's history of infiltrators, leakers, defectors, influence in foreign politics, that no one in the IC, would ever involve themselves in US domestic politics? |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 1:43:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The common assertions were that there was "no oversight" and "no consequences". When it was pointed out that there was indeed mandated oversight and violators were detected, caught, and punished the discussion turned to matters of degree. Most folks get all frothy trying to label me as a NOVA bootlicking shitheel apologist and ignore the fact that I have agreed over the years that these agencies could do with a bit more of both. that language suit you better? |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 1:45:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not entirely true. If Who = some random joe with no political ties. No one would give a shit. The crux of the issue is whether Who = persons with political ties, involved or looking to be involved in high offices of the government or not. And it looks like that is the issue here, a big one. Regardless of wherever that person/s fall on the political spectrum. Granted, shit happens when humans are involved and procedures fail or are side stepped. There are methods of corrective action. I understand that. But, you're asking us to believe that a government(not just an administration) that ran F&F, targeted citizens of a certain political bent with the IRS, all this done by humans in contravention to established rules, procedures, law; never once, has someone been directed or taken upon themselves to use capabilities in an improper manner, outside of publicly disclosed occurrences. I'm certain I've over simplified your position(actually guarantee it ), but the best I can tell is, "It's unlikely this has happened in the manner described, and if it did, it will be handled." Basically, the people over there fucked up, but these people over here didn't.
We're supposed to believe, despite the IC's history of infiltrators, leakers, defectors, influence in foreign politics, that no one in the IC, would ever involve themselves in US domestic politics? |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 2:20:46 PM EDT
[#37]
This is what is happening to the neverTrumpers
Admit if you fools. Trump has owned your punk asses since he announced he was running. Crying in your pillow every night give us more power 
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Posted: 3/23/2017 3:02:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The common assertions were that there was "no oversight" and "no consequences". When it was pointed out that there was indeed mandated oversight and violators were detected, caught, and punished the discussion turned to matters of degree. Most folks get all frothy trying to label me as a NOVA bootlicking shitheel apologist and ignore the fact that I have agreed over the years that these agencies could do with a bit more of both. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The common assertions were that there was "no oversight" and "no consequences". When it was pointed out that there was indeed mandated oversight and violators were detected, caught, and punished the discussion turned to matters of degree. Most folks get all frothy trying to label me as a NOVA bootlicking shitheel apologist and ignore the fact that I have agreed over the years that these agencies could do with a bit more of both. Quoted:
When we did this a couple years ago it was pointed out that there were documented instances where privileged access was abused and those individuals were identified and faced various disciplinary actions. Since none of them involved ritual disembowelment nobody here wanted to hear about it, but to claim that they kept their jobs without repercussion is disingenuous. Quoted:
Words mean things. Your disingenuous parsing of them to imply that "You should be happy that they may or may not have been fired or something. Well, I think they got fired or something, but I can't really prove it, nor will I. Could said agencies have done more? yeah, but at least the perpetrators might have faced unknown repercussions" as proof of anything other than possible bullshit agency administrative action in order to downplay the severity of violating the public trust (among other acts), is why people label you as such. Backpedaling and then marginalizing the other sides position as just a minor matter of degree (NBD homies, I said that the agencies could do a BIT more), when it is a matter necessitating both administrative AND criminal punishment, is why I will label you as such. There should be a mile long public record of 18 U.S.C. 1030 federal prosecutions, at a minimum, concerning documented incidents. The lack thereof, in addition to the current show at the three ring sister-fuck-arena, tells me all I need to know about your community. And that is why I will label those in your community as such. Weber was 100% right on this point... "Bureaucratic administration always seeks to evade the light of the public as best it can, because in so doing it shields its knowledge and conduct from criticism..." |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 3:20:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why should I trust them? They haven't been honest at all. If one of your Marines said all the shit Clapper and the "muh safeguards" brigade on here spouted, would you trust him at all? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do you believe the government collects and stores all of your phone calls and emails? If one of your Marines said all the shit Clapper and the "muh safeguards" brigade on here spouted, would you trust him at all? |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 3:26:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
unless your identity is unmasked. At that point your are under surveillance, illegally. The law is pretty clear on this point. As long as your information is redacted, you are good. The minute it isn't, you are now a target. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Against the Russians. If I called the Russian Embassy, or if I received a call from the Russian Embassy, I would expect those calls to be "under surveillance." If I walked past the Russian Embassy, I would expect that I would be "under surveillance." Does that mean that I am under surveillance, or being investigated? No. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 3:27:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are directions on these forms. And regardless of your personal feelings, there is no official language in the United States. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 3:30:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our defacto official language is English only the apologists for illegal aliens parrot that stupid cliche'. Our constitution and our money are written in English. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 3:33:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what is happening to the neverTrumpers http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w574/cravertown/darth-vader-fantasy-flight-games-218646-790x350_zpsqb2iszgq.jpg Admit if you fools. Trump has owned your punk asses since he announced he was running. Crying in your pillow every night give us more power 
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Posted: 3/23/2017 3:33:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They sure do. Your disingenuous parsing of them to imply that "You should be happy that they may or may not have been fired or something. Well, I think they got fired or something, but I can't really prove it, nor will I. Could said agencies have done more? yeah, but at least the perpetrators might have faced unknown repercussions" as proof of anything other than possible bullshit agency administrative action in order to downplay the severity of violating the public trust (among other acts), is why people label you as such. Backpedaling and then marginalizing the other sides position as just a minor matter of degree (NBD homies, I said that the agencies could do a BIT more), when it is a matter necessitating both administrative AND criminal punishment, is why I will label you as such. There should be a mile long public record of 18 U.S.C. 1030 federal prosecutions, at a minimum, concerning documented incidents. The lack thereof, in addition to the current show at the three ring sister-fuck-arena, tells me all I need to know about your community. And that is why I will label those in your community as such. Weber was 100% right on this point... "Bureaucratic administration always seeks to evade the light of the public as best it can, because in so doing it shields its knowledge and conduct from criticism..." |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 4:12:20 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If Unmasked == American and > 1 Then Who = Irrelevant.
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Posted: 3/23/2017 4:32:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
don't forget the entire federal code |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 4:41:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Has anything begun to develop regarding possible ramifications of the guilty parties? Is the media accepting the new information from NUNES?
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Posted: 3/23/2017 4:44:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FIFY Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If Unmasked == American and > 1 Then Who = Irrelevant.
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Posted: 3/23/2017 4:57:43 PM EDT
[#49]
How Things are Supposed to Work: The CIA listens to a phone call between Aimless and the Russian ambassador. The CIA realizes that the conversation was about the deliciousness of Russian Mackerel. The CIA knows this isn't intel and deletes all tapes and recordings relating to the conversation.
How Things Actually Worked: The CIA listens to a conversation between Aimless and the Russian Ambassador. They discuss their mutual hatred of furries. The CIA includes the conversation in a report despite it having nothing to do with intel, and then forwards the report to the White House so that Obama can listen to all the juicy prejudice against furries under the guise of just reading an intelligence report. Obama then leaks this info to David Brock at ShariaBlue who sends an army of furry trolls to Arfcom. The Difference? Multiple felonies. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 5:00:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How Things are Supposed to Work: The CIA listens to a phone call between Aimless and the Russian ambassador. The CIA realizes that the conversation was about the deliciousness of Russian Mackerel. The CIA knows this isn't intel and deletes all tapes and recordings relating to the conversation. How Things Actually Worked: The CIA listens to a conversation between Aimless and the Russian Ambassador. They discuss their mutual hatred of furries. The CIA includes the conversation in a report despite it having nothing to do with intel, and then forwards the report to the White House so that Obama can listen to all the juicy prejudice against furries under the guise of just reading an intelligence report. Obama then leaks this info to David Brock at ShariaBlue who sends an army of furry trolls to Arfcom. The Difference? Multiple felonies. |
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