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Posted: 2/25/2017 10:09:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Screw all that, bring back the radial engines.
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Posted: 2/25/2017 10:14:08 PM EDT
[#2]
I live in Marietta Ga, used to work across the street from Dobbins ARB/Lockheed during lunch I'd grab my food and pull my car to the front on 41 right across the street from the runway and watch them get put through their paces The for the first time, bet I've watched 90%+ of them fly.
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Posted: 2/25/2017 10:16:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Screw all that, bring back the radial engines. I love radials but the war boner from a turbofan with full burner could be weaponized. Especially when they roar into the sky on an unrestricted climb |
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Posted: 2/25/2017 10:18:39 PM EDT
[#4]
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Doesn't sound like the best thing for your hearing but I'd give her a go! It's not. And I have the tinnitus as proof. |
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Posted: 2/25/2017 10:19:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is NOT the sound of an F-22 engine start. It is only the sound of the F-22's APU starting. You can hear the engines start in this video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFUo0gmVG8Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is NOT the sound of an F-22 engine start. It is only the sound of the F-22's APU starting. You can hear the engines start in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFUo0gmVG8And, just so you know, the A23X3s got quite the complimentary mention in the course I'm now teaching. 
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Posted: 2/25/2017 10:26:10 PM EDT
[#6]
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Why couldn't we have built more F22's instead of the F35? Because it is an air superiority fighter and Obama was sent to make sure America wasn't superior to any other nation, treaty or opposing alliance |
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Posted: 2/25/2017 10:39:55 PM EDT
[#7]
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Because it is an air superiority fighter and Obama was sent to make sure America wasn't superior to any other nation, treaty or opposing alliance Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why couldn't we have built more F22's instead of the F35? Because it is an air superiority fighter and Obama was sent to make sure America wasn't superior to any other nation, treaty or opposing alliance |
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Posted: 2/25/2017 11:06:10 PM EDT
[#8]
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That's awesome. But, the audio at 8:28 just doesn't do justice to the howl of those engine transients. Oh, and LOL at 10:13 with the A/C being in TMM. That brings back memories. And, just so you know, the A23X3s got quite the complimentary mention in the course I'm now teaching. Yep, the howl is very distinctive sound. I still remember the days of fuel chillers at Edwards. 
What course are you teaching? And FYI, the F-22 Crew Chief AFSC is now 2A3X7. The AF split up the my career field couple years before I retired. The legacy fighter guys kept 2A3X3, guys working 5th gen at the time got 2A3X7, and the UAV guys got 2A3X8. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:13:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, the howl is very distinctive sound. I still remember the days of fuel chillers at Edwards.
What course are you teaching? And FYI, the F-22 Crew Chief AFSC is now 2A3X7. The AF split up the my career field couple years before I retired. The legacy fighter guys kept 2A3X3, guys working 5th gen at the time got 2A3X7, and the UAV guys got 2A3X8. I singled out the 2A3XYs because of the immensely favorable impression they left upon me. For them, their position was their career, whereas for too many officers, their particular position was just a rotation. When I was on the program, I never discussed leadership dynamics - as a mere technical analyst, it just wasn't my job. However, now that I'm a teacher, I believe that this does need to be discussed, where appropriate, as a matter of professional development. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:53:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote History |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 1:13:54 AM EDT
[#11]
That's a bad bitch.
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Posted: 2/26/2017 1:24:08 AM EDT
[#12]
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It's not. And I have the tinnitus as proof. Damn sorry to hear that last part. Sincerely. The overall sacrifices of our servicemen go largely unnoticed unless they can put it on TV. I used to work for an old CPO who could barely hear anything over the ringing in his ears but since that doesn't make for good TV he had to fight for disability benefits |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 1:30:17 AM EDT
[#13]
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Nope. It is a turbine engine rated at 450 hp built by Honeywell/Allied Signal. I never thought about it before. Are the APU's built into the planes? For some reason I thought the ground crew wheeled a cart over and "jump started" the jets. I know nothing about this. How does the on board APU start the main engines? |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 1:34:13 AM EDT
[#14]
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Trying being under one. With the engines running. And with one engine being in full afterburner.  When I was in Africa, the fucking French would love to take off at full power and turn straight up. It was cool the first few times but got old real quick. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 1:40:35 AM EDT
[#15]
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I never thought about it before. Are the APU's built into the planes? For some reason I thought the ground crew wheeled a cart over and "jump started" the jets. I know nothing about this. How does the on board APU start the main engines? Generally the APU uses compressed air pulled from the compressor section of the engine (bleed air) to turn the starter on the main engines. Although there are some jets that use electric starters (usually smaller ones that don't need an APU and can just start off of batteries). |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 10:34:00 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never thought about it before. Are the APU's built into the planes? For some reason I thought the ground crew wheeled a cart over and "jump started" the jets. I know nothing about this. How does the on board APU start the main engines? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nope. It is a turbine engine rated at 450 hp built by Honeywell/Allied Signal. I never thought about it before. Are the APU's built into the planes? For some reason I thought the ground crew wheeled a cart over and "jump started" the jets. I know nothing about this. How does the on board APU start the main engines? The motive force for engine start is actually provided by the SES (stored energy system) which is a reciprocating air compressor in the wing root, near the APU. The SES stores the energy in the form of air compressed to several thousand psi. If compressing air through reciprocating pistons to several thousand psi sounds dangerous, well, that's because it is. The APU is also used to provide bleed air flow to the air cooled fuel coolers, ACFCs, which are critical to the thermal management of the fuel. The APU does a lot of stuff on the F-22. And, as you can see from the video, there is a lot of stuff on the F-22 waiting to knock you unconscious, decapitate you, set you on fire, or blend your body into a pink, boiling puree ... especially on the right side of the aircraft. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 10:47:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Those side missile bays are fricken cool. It took me a few seconds to figure out what was going on, thinking that was an access hatch or something. Then I looked closer and said "Holy fuck! There's a missile hiding in there!"
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Posted: 2/26/2017 10:56:03 AM EDT
[#18]
Neat bird. We should make more. Make the F-22 great again.
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:09:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
look up some vids with WWII aircraft. F-15s, F-22s are huge next to a P-51 or P-47. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Bad ass video! Thats a tiny plane. look up some vids with WWII aircraft. F-15s, F-22s are huge next to a P-51 or P-47. Can some one post a picture? |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:14:49 PM EDT
[#20]
I've started many an F-22
#humblebrag |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:15:59 PM EDT
[#21]
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Can some one post a picture? 
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:30:03 PM EDT
[#22]
They all sound like hairdryers when taxiing to me
Under load however they sound amazing.
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:34:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is NOT the sound of an F-22 engine start. It is only the sound of the F-22's APU starting. You can hear the engines start in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFUo0gmVG8That has some pretty good control surface throw... Aviator |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 2:36:08 PM EDT
[#24]
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Can some one post a picture? 
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Posted: 2/26/2017 2:44:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go away. Wow Tell it all about it then inside man |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 2:50:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those side missile bays are fricken cool. It took me a few seconds to figure out what was going on, thinking that was an access hatch or something. Then I looked closer and said "Holy fuck! There's a missile hiding in there!" The need to contour the inlets lends space to that weapon bay and the dorsal bays. Making space for the weapon bays and contouring the inlets are coincidental design. The equipment packaging in the f-22 is the densest I've ever seen. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 2:55:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the case of the F-22, the APU is built into the aircraft. Aside from the obvious in-flight backup role, the APU provides hydraulics, electrical power, and ECS bleed air for the aircraft startup sequence, as well as for a number self sufficient maintenance modes. Support equipment like high pressure air carts are often used for F-22 maintenance, but the design concept was to allow many of these procedures to be performed in a self sufficient manner, thus lessening the deployed footprint of the aircraft. The motive force for engine start is actually provided by the SES (stored energy system) which is a reciprocating air compressor in the wing root, near the APU. The SES stores the energy in the form of air compressed to several thousand psi. If compressing air through reciprocating pistons to several thousand psi sounds dangerous, well, that's because it is. The APU is also used to provide bleed air flow to the air cooled fuel coolers, ACFCs, which are critical to the thermal management of the fuel. The APU does a lot of stuff on the F-22. And, as you can see from the video, there is a lot of stuff on the F-22 waiting to knock you unconscious, decapitate you, set you on fire, or blend your body into a pink, boiling puree ... especially on the right side of the aircraft. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Thank you. Can I assume that the start up process is entirely different for every jet model? And the purpose of an on board APU is used for different things for each jet? Are there places where different jets are stationed together and the ground crew can work across the field or is the ground crew limited to their jet only? |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 3:00:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If compressing air through reciprocating pistons to several thousand psi sounds dangerous, well, that's because it is.
The APU is also used to provide bleed air flow to the air cooled fuel coolers, ACFCs, which are critical to the thermal management of the fuel. Depending on the failure mode, the hydraulic system can be much-much meaner. I did very little work on the F-22, but I seem to recall it has a 4000 psi hydraulic system. That's about middle of the range pressure in modern a/c systems. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 3:01:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you. Can I assume that the start up process is entirely different for every jet model? And the purpose of an on board APU is used for different things for each jet? Are there places where different jets are stationed together and the ground crew can work across the field or is the ground crew limited to their jet only? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In the case of the F-22, the APU is built into the aircraft. Aside from the obvious in-flight backup role, the APU provides hydraulics, electrical power, and ECS bleed air for the aircraft startup sequence, as well as for a number self sufficient maintenance modes. Support equipment like high pressure air carts are often used for F-22 maintenance, but the design concept was to allow many of these procedures to be performed in a self sufficient manner, thus lessening the deployed footprint of the aircraft. The motive force for engine start is actually provided by the SES (stored energy system) which is a reciprocating air compressor in the wing root, near the APU. The SES stores the energy in the form of air compressed to several thousand psi. If compressing air through reciprocating pistons to several thousand psi sounds dangerous, well, that's because it is. The APU is also used to provide bleed air flow to the air cooled fuel coolers, ACFCs, which are critical to the thermal management of the fuel. The APU does a lot of stuff on the F-22. And, as you can see from the video, there is a lot of stuff on the F-22 waiting to knock you unconscious, decapitate you, set you on fire, or blend your body into a pink, boiling puree ... especially on the right side of the aircraft. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Thank you. Can I assume that the start up process is entirely different for every jet model? And the purpose of an on board APU is used for different things for each jet? Are there places where different jets are stationed together and the ground crew can work across the field or is the ground crew limited to their jet only? All F-22's start the same way. A mechanic working F-22's at Elmendorf can work any F-22; not just "theirs". Likewise, for the most part, an F-22 mechanic at Elmendorf can work Langley F-22's. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 3:09:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you. Can I assume that the start up process is entirely different for every jet model? And the purpose of an on board APU is used for different things for each jet? Are there places where different jets are stationed together and the ground crew can work across the field or is the ground crew limited to their jet only? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In the case of the F-22, the APU is built into the aircraft. Aside from the obvious in-flight backup role, the APU provides hydraulics, electrical power, and ECS bleed air for the aircraft startup sequence, as well as for a number self sufficient maintenance modes. Support equipment like high pressure air carts are often used for F-22 maintenance, but the design concept was to allow many of these procedures to be performed in a self sufficient manner, thus lessening the deployed footprint of the aircraft. The motive force for engine start is actually provided by the SES (stored energy system) which is a reciprocating air compressor in the wing root, near the APU. The SES stores the energy in the form of air compressed to several thousand psi. If compressing air through reciprocating pistons to several thousand psi sounds dangerous, well, that's because it is. The APU is also used to provide bleed air flow to the air cooled fuel coolers, ACFCs, which are critical to the thermal management of the fuel. The APU does a lot of stuff on the F-22. And, as you can see from the video, there is a lot of stuff on the F-22 waiting to knock you unconscious, decapitate you, set you on fire, or blend your body into a pink, boiling puree ... especially on the right side of the aircraft. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Thank you. Can I assume that the start up process is entirely different for every jet model? And the purpose of an on board APU is used for different things for each jet? Are there places where different jets are stationed together and the ground crew can work across the field or is the ground crew limited to their jet only? Different types of jets have different startup sequences. While they all follow the same big picture idea I wouldn't be able to hop into an F-16 and get it started without some excitement (reading the tech data is only so useful when you are doing something complex for the first time). APUs have the same basic purpose around the world. They provide ground power, hydraulics, and bleed air (or a subset of those) and are often used for emergency power in case the main engines fail. What you work on really depends on where you work. In the civilian world my A&P lets me work on about anything, but in the military I only work on one airframe unless I went through a transition course to go work on others. That said when we deploy we work on any unit's jet that's of the same type as ours. There are a some military career fields that are a lot more broad in what the work on such as non-destructive inspection and sheet metal. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 3:10:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All F-22's start the same way. A mechanic working F-22's at Elmendorf can work any F-22; not just "theirs". Likewise, for the most part, an F-22 mechanic at Elmendorf can work Langley F-22's. I meant like a f22 and f16 somewhere. are the ground crews assigned a certain model and only touch that model? |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 3:14:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Different types of jets have different startup sequences. While they all follow the same big picture idea I wouldn't be able to hop into an F-16 and get it started without some excitement (reading the tech data is only so useful when you are doing something complex for the first time). APUs have the same basic purpose around the world. They provide ground power, hydraulics, and bleed air (or a subset of those) and are often used for emergency power in case the main engines fail. What you work on really depends on where you work. In the civilian world my A&P lets me work on about anything, but in the military I only work on one airframe unless I went through a transition course to go work on others. That said when we deploy we work on any unit's jet that's of the same type as ours. There are a some military career fields that are a lot more broad in what the work on such as non-destructive inspection and sheet metal. Thanks. Thats what I was asking. Being Infantry, the air wing is a whole other world to us. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 3:16:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Cool video. My buddies diesel truck sounds like that in the winter
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Posted: 2/26/2017 3:17:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
those planes are sex....and we stopped building them 
kenyans  |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 3:31:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Nothing beats an old DC-8-50/61 for startup noise.
The howl could be heard all across the airport, followed by smoke'n flames. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 3:37:06 PM EDT
[#36]
https://youtu.be/P_USqwNZvoI
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Posted: 2/26/2017 4:03:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can some one post a picture? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Bad ass video! Thats a tiny plane. look up some vids with WWII aircraft. F-15s, F-22s are huge next to a P-51 or P-47. Can some one post a picture?
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Posted: 2/26/2017 4:41:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I meant like a f22 and f16 somewhere. are the ground crews assigned a certain model and only touch that model? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All F-22's start the same way. A mechanic working F-22's at Elmendorf can work any F-22; not just "theirs". Likewise, for the most part, an F-22 mechanic at Elmendorf can work Langley F-22's. I meant like a f22 and f16 somewhere. are the ground crews assigned a certain model and only touch that model? Generally speaking, yes. There's exceptions to the rule, but I can't go out and wrench on an F-16 even though I used to 10 years ago. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 4:45:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Generally speaking, yes. There's exceptions to the rule, but I can't go out and wrench on an F-16 even though I used to 10 years ago. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
All F-22's start the same way. A mechanic working F-22's at Elmendorf can work any F-22; not just "theirs". Likewise, for the most part, an F-22 mechanic at Elmendorf can work Langley F-22's. I meant like a f22 and f16 somewhere. are the ground crews assigned a certain model and only touch that model? Generally speaking, yes. There's exceptions to the rule, but I can't go out and wrench on an F-16 even though I used to 10 years ago. Unless you're working an airshow. Then all bets are off. <---- Became qualified to tow F-16s, P-38s, and B-25s for a weekend.
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Posted: 2/26/2017 4:50:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depending on the failure mode, the hydraulic system can be much-much meaner. I did very little work on the F-22, but I seem to recall it has a 4000 psi hydraulic system. That's about middle of the range pressure in modern a/c systems. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If compressing air through reciprocating pistons to several thousand psi sounds dangerous, well, that's because it is.
The APU is also used to provide bleed air flow to the air cooled fuel coolers, ACFCs, which are critical to the thermal management of the fuel. Depending on the failure mode, the hydraulic system can be much-much meaner. I did very little work on the F-22, but I seem to recall it has a 4000 psi hydraulic system. That's about middle of the range pressure in modern a/c systems. Hydro system is 4100 psi. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 4:52:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the case of the F-22, the APU is built into the aircraft. Aside from the obvious in-flight backup role, the APU provides hydraulics, electrical power, and ECS bleed air for the aircraft startup sequence, as well as for a number self sufficient maintenance modes. Support equipment like high pressure air carts are often used for F-22 maintenance, but the design concept was to allow many of these procedures to be performed in a self sufficient manner, thus lessening the deployed footprint of the aircraft. The motive force for engine start is actually provided by the SES (stored energy system) which is a reciprocating air compressor in the wing root, near the APU. The SES stores the energy in the form of air compressed to several thousand psi. If compressing air through reciprocating pistons to several thousand psi sounds dangerous, well, that's because it is. The APU is also used to provide bleed air flow to the air cooled fuel coolers, ACFCs, which are critical to the thermal management of the fuel. The APU does a lot of stuff on the F-22. And, as you can see from the video, there is a lot of stuff on the F-22 waiting to knock you unconscious, decapitate you, set you on fire, or blend your body into a pink, boiling puree ... especially on the right side of the aircraft. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nope. It is a turbine engine rated at 450 hp built by Honeywell/Allied Signal. I never thought about it before. Are the APU's built into the planes? For some reason I thought the ground crew wheeled a cart over and "jump started" the jets. I know nothing about this. How does the on board APU start the main engines? The motive force for engine start is actually provided by the SES (stored energy system) which is a reciprocating air compressor in the wing root, near the APU. The SES stores the energy in the form of air compressed to several thousand psi. If compressing air through reciprocating pistons to several thousand psi sounds dangerous, well, that's because it is. The APU is also used to provide bleed air flow to the air cooled fuel coolers, ACFCs, which are critical to the thermal management of the fuel. The APU does a lot of stuff on the F-22. And, as you can see from the video, there is a lot of stuff on the F-22 waiting to knock you unconscious, decapitate you, set you on fire, or blend your body into a pink, boiling puree ... especially on the right side of the aircraft. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. SES air is 5000 psi. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 5:52:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey, at least I got it Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Bad ass video! Thats a tiny plane. look up some vids with WWII aircraft. F-15s, F-22s are huge next to a P-51 or P-47. Can some one post a picture? Thanks .
Theirs are better though. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:23:24 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those side missile bays are fricken cool. It took me a few seconds to figure out what was going on, thinking that was an access hatch or something. Then I looked closer and said "Holy fuck! There's a missile hiding in there!" Those missile doors were operating at maintenance speed. You should see them at actual speed!  
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:00:29 AM EDT
[#44]
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Those missile doors were operating at maintenance speed. You should see them at actual speed! I'm just amazed at how powerful those actuators must be. To open and close as fast as they do at the speeds the AC travels. And they're on an AC, so they have the usual size and weight restrictions. It's incredible. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 5:45:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Nice plane.
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Posted: 2/27/2017 7:49:06 AM EDT
[#46]
FBO at 10:23 in that video...LMAO!
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Posted: 2/27/2017 6:18:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ooooooooh, that was good for me... Try handling this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCEMg7cQ3ek I prefer this one. Very amazing to see up close. Excuse the crappy late 1980s video quality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY1_OLXhNEk |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 6:35:07 PM EDT
[#48]
ok,so dumb question...is the hydraulic systems powered off of the engine somehow?or electrically powered?it seems like they can move the wing flaps before starting the engine?
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Posted: 2/27/2017 8:50:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ok,so dumb question...is the hydraulic systems powered off of the engine somehow?or electrically powered?it seems like they can move the wing flaps before starting the engine? General answer: hydraulic systems are pressurized by engine driven pumps. My jet has electric aux pumps, but it's not unreasonable to have an APU driven pump. |
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Posted: 2/28/2017 12:55:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ok,so dumb question...is the hydraulic systems powered off of the engine somehow?or electrically powered?it seems like they can move the wing flaps before starting the engine? The F-22 has a hydraulic pump that is driven by the APU that can provide limited pressure (27 gpm at 4100 psi) to the flight controls and some other systems. Main hydraulic pressure is provided by engine driven pumps. Each engine has a PTO shaft that drives a gearbox that has two hydraulic pumps (72 gpm at 4100 psi each) on it, one for each hydraulic system. |
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