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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:06:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Aka starship troopers
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:06:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Do you want to know more?
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:07:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Worked well for Rome. They all turned on the state once they weren't getting paid.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:07:37 PM EDT
[#4]
They already have the fast track to citizenship if you serve in the military. Those people just have to go through the process.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:08:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They already have the fast track to citizenship if you serve in the military. Those people just have to go through the process. This. It's already a thing. You don't have to be a USC to serve in the US Mil. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:09:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They already have the fast track to citizenship if you serve in the military. Those people just have to go through the process. Yup and I think its a fair trade. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:09:58 PM EDT
[#7]
8yrs minimum. And they have to come with all of their shots, good English, extreme vetting, etc
ONLY non-sensitive jobs. NO security clearance. ....and NO other bennies...NO GI BILL, etc... NO medical disability, etc NOTHING. The deal is very quite simple: They pay with their blood, sweat, and tears...So they and their descendants get to live in the greatest country on Earth. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:10:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They already have the fast track to citizenship if you serve in the military. Those people just have to go through the process. this |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:12:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
8yrs minimum. And they have to come with all of their shots, good English, extreme vetting, etc ONLY non-sensitive jobs. NO security clearance. ....and NO other bennies...NO GI BILL, etc... NO medical disability, etc NOTHING. The deal is very quite simple: They pay with their blood, sweat, and tears... And their descendants get to live in the greatest country on Earth...for free. derp. They already give people 87 shots, and after they are citizens they aren't eligible for what other citizens are? |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:25:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
8yrs minimum. And they have to come with all of their shots, good English, extreme vetting, etc ONLY non-sensitive jobs. NO security clearance. ....and NO other bennies...NO GI BILL, etc... NO medical disability, etc NOTHING. The deal is very quite simple: They pay with their blood, sweat, and tears...So they and their descendants get to live in the greatest country on Earth. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:28:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Jean Rasczak: All right, let's sum up. This year we explored the failure of democracy. How our social scientists brought our world to the brink of chaos. We talked about the veterans, how they took control and established the stability that has lasted for generations since. You know these facts, but have I taught you anything of value this year?
[to a student] Jean Rasczak: You. Why are only citizens allowed to vote? Student: It's a reward. Something the federation gives you for doing federal service. Jean Rasczak: No. Something given has no value. When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived. ...not sure what replaced democracy tho... maybe a Constitutional Republic? And "yes". Fight for Her Honorably; become part of Her. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:28:36 PM EDT
[#12]
No!
With exception! |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:29:30 PM EDT
[#13]
That is already a thing. And I think it's a great thing.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:29:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aka starship troopers And the French Foreign Legion |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:31:01 PM EDT
[#15]
We need fewer paths to citizenship not more. America has enough people, especially when you take into account how many jobs are going to be replaced with robots over the next 20-40 years.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:31:26 PM EDT
[#16]
I have 0 problem with that.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:34:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Had a guy on my team (10th SFG) in 1984 who was a German citizen. He went on to get his citizenship and became a commissioned officer in the Army. Having native German speakers in 10th group was a hell of an asset during the Cold War.....many of the SGMs and CSM were lodge act enlistees.....
In 1950, the Lodge Act was passed, which provided for the recruiting of foreign nationals into the United States military. It was originally planned that half of the members of the Special Forces would be native Europeans. Many of the initial members of the 10th SFG(A) were Lodge Act recruits, who were strenuously anti-Communist.[5] Among the more notable of these men was MAJ. Larry Thorne, a former Finnish Army soldier who was awarded the Mannerheim Cross during World War II.[4]
By the end of June 1952, the group had 122 officers and men assigned.[4] Many had been OSS, Ranger, and Airborne troopers during World War II. The group's mission was to conduct partisan warfare behind Soviet lines in the event of a Soviet invasion of Europe.[6] On 10 November 1953, the 10th SFG(A) was split in half, with one half deployed to Bad Tölz and Lenggries in West Germany, and the other remaining in Fort Bragg to become the 77th Special Forces Group (which in 1960 became the 7th Special Forces Group).[6] The green beret was authorized for wear by Col. William E. Ekman, the group commander, in 1954, and it became group policy. By 1955, every soldier in the unit wore a green beret as part of the uniform. However, the Department of the Army (DA) did not recognize the beret as headgear. The DA banned the wear of the beret, but it was later restored by President Kennedy, a major champion of the Special Forces.[7] The 10th Group encountered publicity for the first time in 1955 when the New York Times published two articles about the unit, describing them as a "liberation" force designed to fight behind enemy lines. Pictures showed soldiers of the group wearing their berets, with their faces blacked out to conceal their identities.[4] |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:37:04 PM EDT
[#18]
People here seem to be talking about two different things...
1. Current resident getting citizenship after serving in the military. 2. Foreigners gaining both permanent residency and citizenship after serving. My answer is NO and NO. Reason for #1 is that permanent residents already have a very lowered bar to get citizenship to where serving in the military cannot effectively lower it. Reason for #2 is it's a bad idea. History as proven it. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:38:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Five year green card holders are already granted expedited citizenship. One year in the military does it.
Green card holder citizenship. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:41:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People here seem to be talking about two different things... 1. Current resident getting citizenship after serving in the military. 2. Foreigners gaining both permanent residency and citizenship after serving. My answer is NO and NO. Reason for #1 is that permanent residents already have a very lowered bar to get citizenship to where serving in the military cannot effectively lower it. Reason for #2 is it's a bad idea. History as proven it. The second wouldn't be a bad idea if you do it like the French do it, by having it done through a foreign unit of limited size and requiring a longer term of service (I think the French require six years before you become eligible for citizenship). |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:42:27 PM EDT
[#21]
For small.quotas only. We dont want.oir military becoming the federalies north.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:44:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Training terrorists? NBDB
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:47:01 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:49:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
What does everyone think? In my mind, if you grunt it up for 4 years and get the honorable discharge you are gtg. The US Navy has many Filipino's. Most were dedicated and hard working...Not sure of when the program started, but the Philippines is a great place to have gone...all bet most Branches have done this... They earn their citizen ship by time Served. Love me some rice... Edit: I can't spell... |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:51:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Nope! Why fill the US Military with citizens from another country? Besides don't you have to actually be a US Citizen to join the military?
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:52:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The US Navy has many Philippino's. Most were dedicated and hard working...Not sure of when the program started, but the Philippines is a great place to have gone...all bet most Branches have done this... They earn their citizen ship by time Served. Love me some rice... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What does everyone think? In my mind, if you grunt it up for 4 years and get the honorable discharge you are gtg. The US Navy has many Philippino's. Most were dedicated and hard working...Not sure of when the program started, but the Philippines is a great place to have gone...all bet most Branches have done this... They earn their citizen ship by time Served. Love me some rice... Isn't that preference due to the Philippines formerly being a colony and Filipinos born on or before 7-4-46 being U.S. nationals as well (which would have meant that in the earlier years of the policies regarding Filipinos that those joining the military would have already had U.S. national status and been eligible for passports)? It makes me wonder if Palau, Micronesia, and the Marshalls get similar treatment, having also been former U.S. colonies and still having U.S. protectorate status. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:53:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope! Why fill the US Military with citizens from another country? Besides don't you have to actually be a US Citizen to join the military? Nope. Non-citizens have been joining the military since the earliest days of the republic. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:56:47 PM EDT
[#28]
IME soldiers who were there for their citizenship were there for the right reasons and most we're avidly against illegal immigration. They wanted to do their part and earn their way. Maybe in POG units its different but in combat arms it seemed to be the overall sentiment.
Maybe they should have to serve a few more years per enlistment to earn it, but once they do should get the same benefits any citizen who joined should. Most seem to go for the long haul and retire from the military. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:57:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Hell no.
No more immigration/invasion. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:57:31 PM EDT
[#30]
That should be across the board, including those born conus unless father earned the MOH.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:58:31 PM EDT
[#31]
I tried it years ago, but your man said no
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:59:13 PM EDT
[#32]
There is already a process in place. Anyway, how many green card holders for example even want citizenship? Many have never even attempted to get it and were just happy with the status quo, now because of Trump, 20 year holders are now rushing to get citizenship. NPR put the number at around 40% who never try to get it. That tells me a lot about all these fake ass immigration narratives.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:59:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
What does everyone think? In my mind, if you grunt it up for 4 years and get the honorable discharge you are gtg. I'm pretty sure we already do that ? |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:05:26 PM EDT
[#34]
How did that work out for Rome?
This forum is Will Hayden most days, "Nevah been done befo". NO, not NO, but HELL NO. Got it now? |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:09:16 PM EDT
[#35]
I'm frankly surprised by some of the stuff I read in GD.
Think about this for a second. What is being proposed here is a U.S. military made up of mercenaries, recruited from all over the world. The rewards would be pay, and a promise of U.S. residency and citizenship once the term of service was over. Exactly what the Romans did in the last days of the Empire. It didn't work out for them too well, did it? If people who are already citizens won't fight to defend their own country, and they have to hire mercenaries to do it for them, then that country is in dire trouble. Not to mention that such a mercenary force would be of dubious loyalty. What would stop them from following some rogue general in a coup? This happened all the time in Rome. And, BTW, Starship Troopers is an over-the-top satire of fascism, down to the Nazi-style uniforms. Surely no one takes it seriously? |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:10:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Are we having trouble finding American soldiers?
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:16:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm frankly surprised by some of the stuff I read in GD. Think about this for a second. What is being proposed here is a U.S. military made up of mercenaries, recruited from all over the world. The rewards would be pay, and a promise of U.S. residency and citizenship once the term of service was over. Exactly what the Romans did in the last days of the Empire. It didn't work out for them too well, did it? If people who are already citizens won't fight to defend their own country, and they have to hire mercenaries to do it for them, then that country is in dire trouble. Not to mention that such a mercenary force would be of dubious loyalty. What would stop them from following some rogue general in a coup? This happened all the time in Rome. And, BTW, Starship Troopers is an over-the-top satire of fascism, down to the Nazi-style uniforms. Surely no one takes it seriously? Starship Troopers is a book with politics embedded in it. But anyhow, what happened in Rome had a lot to do with the scale of the use of mercenaries. If you were to limit recruitment of foreigners not already legally resident in the U.S. to filling the ranks of a separate organization within or affiliated with the Army, like a foreign legion, and follow the historical French practices of having most of the officers including all field and general grade officers be citizens and also keep them stationed only in colonies and foreign postings, you can very much limit the need to be so concerned about what you're talking about. Foreign service could also be a way, perhaps, for Americans who got in trouble in their past to redeem themselves, I think; offer them a truly clean slate in exchange for service (expungement no longer really offers a clean slate these days). Discipline would likely have to be harsher in such an organization (which was also the French practice for their organization). |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:21:36 PM EDT
[#38]
French Foreign Legion
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:23:50 PM EDT
[#39]
The military is not an immigration service.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:32:14 PM EDT
[#40]
They already do this, but you must have a necessary language skill, or be fit for another program they offer.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:37:12 PM EDT
[#41]
For them?
For their immediate family? Needs some clarity but mostly GTG |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:52:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Mmmm, militocracy. No thanks, system works well as it stands.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:57:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Lodge Act anyone? Uncle Thorne was a fan according my father.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:58:23 PM EDT
[#44]
This approach didn't work out so well for the Romans...
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:02:39 PM EDT
[#45]
We had two guys in boot camp ('91) that were going through the program. Good guys, it was funny with them struggling with English while also trying to navigate USMC boot camp. Many lulz in SDI circle.
The one guy was from US Virgin Islands The other was from a non-territory, I forget where though. Somewhere in the Bahamas. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:06:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Or have them build the wall
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:10:31 PM EDT
[#47]
I'm for it. Swearing in as you muster out.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:11:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Starship Troopers is a book with politics embedded in it. But anyhow, what happened in Rome had a lot to do with the scale of the use of mercenaries. If you were to limit recruitment of foreigners not already legally resident in the U.S. to filling the ranks of a separate organization within or affiliated with the Army, like a foreign legion, and follow the historical French practices of having most of the officers including all field and general grade officers be citizens and also keep them stationed only in colonies and foreign postings, you can very much limit the need to be so concerned about what you're talking about. Foreign service could also be a way, perhaps, for Americans who got in trouble in their past to redeem themselves, I think; offer them a truly clean slate in exchange for service (expungement no longer really offers a clean slate these days). Discipline would likely have to be harsher in such an organization (which was also the French practice for their organization). Do you realize even American citizens are paid to fight? Gibill, VA loans, 10% disability for tinnitus on top of their biweekly paycheck. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:18:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or have them build the wall |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:55:35 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you realize even American citizens are paid to fight? Gibill, VA loans, 10% disability for tinnitus on top of their biweekly paycheck. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Starship Troopers is a book with politics embedded in it. But anyhow, what happened in Rome had a lot to do with the scale of the use of mercenaries. If you were to limit recruitment of foreigners not already legally resident in the U.S. to filling the ranks of a separate organization within or affiliated with the Army, like a foreign legion, and follow the historical French practices of having most of the officers including all field and general grade officers be citizens and also keep them stationed only in colonies and foreign postings, you can very much limit the need to be so concerned about what you're talking about. Foreign service could also be a way, perhaps, for Americans who got in trouble in their past to redeem themselves, I think; offer them a truly clean slate in exchange for service (expungement no longer really offers a clean slate these days). Discipline would likely have to be harsher in such an organization (which was also the French practice for their organization). Do you realize even American citizens are paid to fight? Gibill, VA loans, 10% disability for tinnitus on top of their biweekly paycheck. I think you may have intended to respond to someone else. It should be obvious, though. Soldier is a word derived from the word "solidus", which refers to compensation, to money. A soldier, in short, is someone who fights for money or some other commodity, if we go to the root of the word. |
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