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No, it's not cutting our nose off, maybe removing a huge cancerous growth, but that's about it..Like I said, the illegals are leaving regardless what your opinion is..you want them in your life, you best get packing as well...Americans have spoken, and President Trump is making it happen... View Quote A growth that contributes more to the US GDP more than it costs in welfare aka net benefit Americans don't elect President, the Electoral College does. Why are you saying popular vote elected Trump? |
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Except, do you know who will be in the fields pickin' tomatoes for welfare? Racism! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I don't know if this has already been said or not, but you can't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. So much about this country is fucked up, and so many of our problems are directly related to poor policy. End welfare if you want to eat then you better take that $150 a day to pick tomatoes. If you don't you can starve. I no longer have any fucks to give. Except, do you know who will be in the fields pickin' tomatoes for welfare? Racism! Lol, I guess poor decisions are racist.If you don't want a shit job be more responsible. |
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Reading comprehension. I didn't say anything about the employers. I said that it's an exaggeration for you to call the small amount of money that the consumer saves "a windfall." View Quote Then by same definition it's an exaggeration to call what the employer saves "a windfall" too.... |
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Let me just say one more time that I am not opposed to deporting the illegals or building the wall. I am especially in favor of deporting the criminal illegals and killing the sanctuary cities. I'm simply asking if there are going to be unintended consequences of these things. View Quote Well duh! Of course there is. You'll be removing a block of laborers from a spectrum of industries. Employers, agencies, and all of us that depend on the stuff they produce will be affected. The question is are we going to fix the system and suck it up or are we going to keep doing the same shit over and over again and expect things to get better? And BTW the H2B Visa program is a scam as well. A former employer of mine would bring in Indian engineers, pay them literally minimum wage to do engineering jobs under a BS title while they worked under the license of a single fat lazy fuck at the home office. They used these poor bastards for a while and the closer they got the not needing the company anymore the more they would try to break them. This also took jobs away from American-born engineers. It's not that employers can't fill the jobs. It's that they don't want to pay a reasonable amount for labor. |
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Then by same definition it's an exaggeration to call what the employer saves "a windfall" too.... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Reading comprehension. I didn't say anything about the employers. I said that it's an exaggeration for you to call the small amount of money that the consumer saves "a windfall." Then by same definition it's an exaggeration to call what the employer saves "a windfall" too.... Is it? Do you know the finances of employers who hire illegals? |
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A growth that contributes more to the US GDP more than it costs in welfare aka net benefit Americans don't elect President, the Electoral College does. Why are you saying popular vote elected Trump? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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No, it's not cutting our nose off, maybe removing a huge cancerous growth, but that's about it..Like I said, the illegals are leaving regardless what your opinion is..you want them in your life, you best get packing as well...Americans have spoken, and President Trump is making it happen... A growth that contributes more to the US GDP more than it costs in welfare aka net benefit Americans don't elect President, the Electoral College does. Why are you saying popular vote elected Trump? More BS, absolutely no one knows exactly what the true cost of illegals are especially welfare cost wise...You honestly think any of the sanctuary states, counties,cities, towns are really obeying the law and not feeding benifits to illegals? Bullshit, all those funds, plus unknown amounts in medical, housing, phones, utilities and criminal shit like theft, robbery, and even vehicular accidents by uninsured illegals aren't being included in those numbers...your argument is so full of fucking fail... ETA: for your cute fail of thought on the election..there is poll after poll from the start of the election to now that shows the majority of Americans want the illegals gone..no one even try's to argue it.... |
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I'm going to call fake news. I seriously doubt they've deported enough illegals to make an impact.
Yet |
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$150 a day?
The fuck, a person could go to night school or night trade school on those wages. |
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I don't know why the Republicans can't get it through their thick skulls to increase the amount of legals, meaning issue more green cards. Short term for seasonal, long term for more needed workers(doctors) type stuff. We are not opposed to reasonable amounts of legal workers. But we want to know who's here, and that you go home when your time is up.
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same numbers divide per each illegal still shows that they add more to the US GDP then they get in welfare. The logical conclusion is that we should just cut off the welfare and let them contribute to our GDP. View Quote No. We deport them or they leave on their own and things readjust to the new normal. You need to read this so you understand another aspect of illegals Kate Steinle |
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More BS, absolutely no one knows exactly what the true cost of illegals are especially welfare cost wise...You honestly think any of the sanctuary states, counties,cities, towns are really obeying the law and not feeding benifits to illegals? Bullshit, all those funds, plus unknown amounts in medical, housing, phones, utilities and criminal shit like theft, robbery, and even vehicular accidents by uninsured illegals aren't being included in those numbers...your argument is so full of fucking fail... ETA: for your cute fail of thought on the election..there is poll after poll from the start of the election to now that shows the majority of Americans want the illegals gone..no one even try's to argue it.... View Quote Your man himself repeatedly said the cost of welfare is $113 billion. He knows best and you ought not to question him. LOL the polls from start of election like Gallup??? : Two-thirds in U.S. oppose deporting illegal immigrants, building a wall http://www.gallup.com/poll/193817/republicans-favor-path-citizenship-wall.aspx |
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He's in business because he hires people who break the law. That's like complaining that you can't find enough car thieves to supply your auto parts store with stolen parts. His business model does not work. He made it work with illegal workers. He should be out of business. View Quote And the new price of tomatos won't be his new price with American labor. It will be the tomatos that were priced just above his. From another farm somewhere else. The price increase wont be near as high as everyone thinks. Does no one understand economics? |
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Or they, the pickers, could apply for a green card to come here and pick stuff. You know, legally. I know its a big leap but I happen to think its worth a shot. ETA: Dang I wasted 11700 on that. View Quote That's actually impossible. There is no category of visa for tomato pickers. That's one of the problems that ought to be fixed, but in general it is very difficult to legally immigrate to the US. |
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Your man himself repeatedly said the cost of welfare is $113 billion. He knows best and you ought not to question him. LOL the polls from start of election like Gallup??? : Two-thirds in U.S. oppose deporting illegal immigrants, building a wall http://www.gallup.com/poll/193817/republicans-favor-path-citizenship-wall.aspx View Quote They take the polls during the day. When the rest of us are doing that "work thing"... |
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Fucking this. And the new price of tomatos won't be his new price with American labor. It will be the tomatos that were priced just above his. From another farm somewhere else. The price increase wont be near as high as everyone thinks. Does no one understand economics? View Quote Do you not understand economics? Even 20% more is 20% that working class doesn't have......65% of US lives paycheck to paycheck. |
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So a farmer doesn't want to follow the law, and likes tax evasion to boot - I should fucking care why?
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No. We deport them or they leave on their own and things readjust to the new normal. You need to read this so you understand another aspect of illegals Kate Steinle http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/26/06/2BAB15FA00000578-0-image-a-70_1440567780165.jpg View Quote yeah......that guys is a cartel drug slinger....not exactly one of those illegals that come here to work and contribute to the GDP..... |
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Fucking this. And the new price of tomatos won't be his new price with American labor. It will be the tomatos that were priced just above his. From another farm somewhere else. The price increase wont be near as high as everyone thinks. Does no one understand economics? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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He's in business because he hires people who break the law. That's like complaining that you can't find enough car thieves to supply your auto parts store with stolen parts. His business model does not work. He made it work with illegal workers. He should be out of business. And the new price of tomatos won't be his new price with American labor. It will be the tomatos that were priced just above his. From another farm somewhere else. The price increase wont be near as high as everyone thinks. Does no one understand economics? It's more complex than that. Let's say Farmer Jack and Farmer Bob grow tomatoes and sell them at the farmer's market. Each Saturday, both farmers bring eight baskets of tomatoes to the market, and they are able to sell each tomatoes for ten cents each and they sell out of tomatoes by the end of the day. Let's say that Farmer Jack uses all American labor and Farmer Bob uses all illegal labor. Now that deportations have started, Farmer Bob shows up to the farmer's market with two baskets of tomatoes instead of eight. Now there are more consumers than the supply can fulfill and everyone is scrambling to buy tomatoes. So, Farmer Jack doubles his price and now tomatoes are selling for twenty cents each. Well, Farmer Bob finally gives in and starts hiring Americans to pick his tomatoes, so he shows up at the farmer's market with eight baskets of tomatoes and starts selling his tomatoes for twenty cents each, just like Farmer Jack. Well, the consumers decided that twenty cents for local grown tomatoes isn't as important to them as they thought, so they started buying Mexican tomatoes at the grocery store. So now Farmer Jack and Farmer Bob aren't selling all of their tomatoes any more, and Farmer Bob's operating costs just doubled while his profits sunk. Farmer Bob and Farmer Jack are going to have to drop their prices back down to ten cents. But now, they don't have enough money to buy new farming equipment. So the John Deere factory sees lower orders for tractors, since the farmers are trying to stretch their old equipment farther. Now John Deere has to cut the third shift at the plant and lay off 50 people. etc, etc, etc. There are going to be unintended consequences. That much is absolutely certain. Thinking that this is going to be an easy transition is a mistake. |
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More BS, absolutely no one knows exactly what the true cost of illegals are especially welfare cost wise...You honestly think any of the sanctuary states, counties,cities, towns are really obeying the law and not feeding benifits to illegals? Bullshit, all those funds, plus unknown amounts in medical, housing, phones, utilities and criminal shit like theft, robbery, and even vehicular accidents by uninsured illegals aren't being included in those numbers...your argument is so full of fucking fail... ETA: for your cute fail of thought on the election..there is poll after poll from the start of the election to now that shows the majority of Americans want the illegals gone..no one even try's to argue it.... View Quote A quick google search suggests 12 Americans are killed everyday by illegal aliens in vehicular accidents. Something like 42k Americans killed every year by illegals in general. In my opinion, just one death is unacceptable. I don't think any Americans life should be put on the line for cheaper tomatoes, but that's just me. |
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No. We deport them or they leave on their own and things readjust to the new normal. You need to read this so you understand another aspect of illegals Kate Steinle http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/26/06/2BAB15FA00000578-0-image-a-70_1440567780165.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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same numbers divide per each illegal still shows that they add more to the US GDP then they get in welfare. The logical conclusion is that we should just cut off the welfare and let them contribute to our GDP. No. We deport them or they leave on their own and things readjust to the new normal. You need to read this so you understand another aspect of illegals Kate Steinle http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/26/06/2BAB15FA00000578-0-image-a-70_1440567780165.jpg In fairness, those people are in the process of getting kicked the fuck out of the country as they should be and hopefully before they can hurt anyone. The people protesting against the current waves of deportations are disconnected from reality and need to get a swift kick in the ass. |
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Fortunately, this won't lead to mass starvation since tomatoes and oranges make up very little of the American diet.
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Fox news did a segment on deportations. One aspect that they talked about was criminals and drugs, but they also talked about farmers. They had footage of a farmer in Florida complaining that he used to ship 80 loads of Tomatoes per day and now he is down to shipping 20 loads of tomatoes per day. The farmer (angrily) said 'They ain't takin' no ones jobs because no one will do this job!' The reporter said that the farmer couldn't find people to work for $150/day picking tomatoes like the Mexicans will. So, one side of the coin is that we have to enforce our laws and keep the criminals and drugs out of our country. The other side of the coin is that, like it or not, a big portion of our economy is dependent on illegal immigrants. If the farmer can't find anyone to pick the tomatoes, then his vegetables are going to rot on the vine causing food shortages and higher prices. If the farmer has to start offering better wages and benefits to get people to pick the tomatoes, then (assuming that people will still take those jobs) we're going to see substantially higher food prices. Some farmers may be forced out of business either way, because foreign farms can produce and import food cheaper than American farmers can. You can probably apply this to a lot of different areas of our economy. Here in Texas (and probably through out the south and south west) construction and housing relies heavily on illegal immigrants for labor. Smaller labor pool could lead to housing shortages causing prices to rise, maintenance costs to rise, etc. Are there going to be negative unintended consequences of the Trump deportation plan? View Quote Without reading 5 pages, they will have to pay more than $150 per day. Supply and demand works both ways. |
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Pay 3X more for tomatoes, lettuce, grapes, etc and increase my food budget by about $300 per year? It's well worth it to not have to worry about some drunk assed illegal killing me or my family with their rattle trap van. Not having these leeches using the emergency room for a free clinic and not having the schools filled with their disease ridden brats. Well worth it. GTFO. View Quote ^ Yup don't care. If we don't get the leaches off our back America is done anyway. Doesn't matter if we all die from fascism, starvation, civil war, we're gonna die off enmass from something at this rate. I'd just assume do it in a nicer place to live. Let them make Mexico great again and then we can import produce for cheaper than leaving them all here. |
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I get so sick of this whole "doing the work Americans won't do thing." I've spent time in two countries that are both highly agricultural and have about zero illegal immigrant labor and are mostly white. (Australia and New Zealand) And you know what? The produce gets picked, the garbage gets collected, the food gets cooked in restaurants, houses are built, yards are landscaped. All by the people who live there legally. The market adjusts. Both countries do have a pretty high minimum wage. Tipping is non-existent. But the work gets done. Some of it costs more and some of it gets done smarter and some of it is done by college kids and so on. I think the biggest difference is with decent wages and smart people doing the work it gets thought of as a profession. Something you can do for awhile. I remember the garbage collectors in AU. They seemed to having a good time at work. And in NZ a lot of the produce pickers were college kids and they worked hard but somehow managed to turn it into a party. And there is LOT of produce in NZ. Who knows. Just reporting what I have seen. In both places produce seemed to cost about twice what it does here but you just shop smarter, don't let things go bad in the fridge and so on. View Quote Exactly, it's all horse shit to make people rich and destroy the country. Illegals need to go home whatever the costs involved. Don't care. |
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Also in addition to a better guest worker program, require proof of medical insurance either through some recognized source from another country or something that can be purchased here for their stay. That way you won't have emergency rooms filled with illegals waiting for treatment that won't get paid for.
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Why did you assume that they were paying $150 for an 8 hour day. Those might be 10-12 hour days. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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$150 a day?? That's 18.75/hr......I'm pretty sure you could find american's to work for that wage....That's nearly $40k a year. Why did you assume that they were paying $150 for an 8 hour day. Those might be 10-12 hour days. When I picked in the late '70's (Like every other teenager here in Oregon) it was a 6-8hr day most of the time. 90% of MY picking was Strawberries with a little Cherry picking on the side (Back then Salem was surrounded with Strawberry fields). In 6hrs I could make half again to almost twice what someone with a MW job could working 8hrs in a day. A $20 day picking berries in '78 was a pretty slack (Fuck Off) day. Those were the days you spent more time throwing rotten fruit at your friends and flirting with the girls () than actually trying to make $$$. MW back then was "about" $20 a day (For 8hrs). I always tried for $25-$30 a day and that was pretty "easy" (It's really hard work) to do if you didn't screw around too much. On days you got a really good row $40 wasn't out of the question. What's really sad though is that something that was pretty much expected of kids when I was a kid (To earn your own money for school clothes, your first car, guns and motorcycles[I bought all of those picking fruit]) would seem so ALIEN and "abusive" to so many youngsters now. |
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That is only because my taxes are being used to pay half of the country to sit on thier asses and wait for their free money. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Are there going to be negative unintended consequences of the Trump deportation plan? Absolutely. Most people lack any economic education to realize they are just cutting off their nose to spite their face when it comes to illegals. And the blue collar working class will the ones being on the loosing end the most by the increase in cost of living. That is only because my taxes are being used to pay half of the country to sit on thier asses and wait for their free money. And to pay all the social workers that run all the welfare cases right pgaplayerless? I have a feeling you know a little something about that. |
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Do you not understand economics? Even 20% more is 20% that working class doesn't have......65% of US lives paycheck to paycheck. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Fucking this. And the new price of tomatos won't be his new price with American labor. It will be the tomatos that were priced just above his. From another farm somewhere else. The price increase wont be near as high as everyone thinks. Does no one understand economics? Do you not understand economics? Even 20% more is 20% that working class doesn't have......65% of US lives paycheck to paycheck. Are you a dumbass? How many tomatos do you think the average American buys in a month? 5? At $1 per tomato that is How much per month? Now raise that by 20% and you get how much? Do you really think that working Americans can't afford a dollar per month increase in their tomato bill? |
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Someone brought this up yesternday. I was told lazy Americans don't want to do the work, even at 30/hr. If that IS the case then this country is fucked. Picking tuhmaters and arnges for 60k a year and people don't want to do it cause they're lazy POSs, ya we're fucked. View Quote Theres probably some truth to that. I certainly have known my share of Americans who found some truly creative ways to beat the system and get gov't money somehow when a real job of some type was available. |
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I can go home every night??
Hell I will pick tomato's for $150 a day, im retired I can buy a new gun every week I have picked tomato's before, my 16 daughter is a cashier at food lion and would pick tomato's for $150 a day. At 5 days a week that is $3k, that's good money where I live. |
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The entire illegal farm labor concept is a disaster.
Farmers love it because they don't have to pay medical, benefits or adhere strictly to labor laws, so of course they are going down kicking and screaming. Many of the laborers live in horrible bunk houses reminiscent of the 30s dust bowl era and do nothing but get shit faced on their off time. As a result, DUI crashes with hit and runs are common. They are impossible to find, nobody saw anything or knows anybody's name, and cars are just passed along to the next worker, so no current owner info. Children work in the fields and nobody says a word. I have personally seen an 11 year old get his pelvis crushed by a tractor...of course, no one knew him, as usual. So, sorry farmers, you had a good run. If you can't do it with legal/visa labor, then step aside and someone will...that's healthy capitalism. |
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What they SHOULD do is deport all the lazy fucking welfare leaches instead of the Mexicans that actually WANT to work for a living. That would kill two birds with one stone. View Quote Bingo, I would gladly trade Mexico.....send them our inner city professionally unemployed welfare scum, we will keep your hard workers looking for a better life. |
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Do you not understand economics? Even 20% more is 20% that working class doesn't have......65% of US lives paycheck to paycheck. View Quote tomatogate... Really, hysterical over tomato prices. OTOH illegals and H1B workers have stalled real wage growth via legit competitive market. |
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I highly doubt that the illegals are working 8 hour days with lunch and coffee breaks. I am sure that these pickers are working at least 10 hours per day, and they are doing this out in the fields with the sun, mud, bugs and rain. They showed footage of the pickers at work and it was fast moving work with heavy lifting involved. They also aren't getting benefits or paid holidays. I highly doubt that your average ghetto goblin or welfare queen is even in good enough physical condition to do the work. View Quote Plus how do you get the useless lazy assholes out to the job site? I have done landscaping and farm type of work on the side for decades to make extra money and you just don't walk out your front door after a lifetime of fucking off and do that sort of work in one day like turning on a light switch...........it takes a bit of TIME to build up the strength and I didn't even do as much as they would be required to do in the fields day after day, after day....................after day. We allowed this shit to fester for decades and it will take time to correct it, if we ever do. Gotta get a guest worker visa program underway..................NOW!! Congress DO FUCKING SOMETHING you bickering useless fucks!! |
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Absolutely. Most people lack any economic education to realize they are just cutting off their nose to spite their face when it comes to illegals. And the blue collar working class will the ones being on the loosing end the most by the increase in cost of living. View Quote The blue collar working class are paying more for property taxes, healthcare, schooling, and getting lower wages because of the effects of illegal immigration. |
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Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most oter public benefits. Under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years. View Quote Do you ever get tired of being wrong? |
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Where did you get those numbers from? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Illegal labor adds adds $380-620 billion to the GDP while the most liberal illegal welfare costs is $113 billion Where did you get those numbers from? He pulled it out of his ass. |
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Not a new problem. Something similar happen a few years ago. Seems farmers were lamenting the lack of labor to pick cotton. New technology was developed to make that labor obsolete.
Similarly and more recently, labor for picking pickles became cost prohibitive, thanks largely to .gov. New technology for growing and harvesting was developed. Even more recently, dairy farmers have complained about costly and poorly skilled drug addled, convicted felon labor to milk cows. Worthless shit bags can't even show up to pull tit because good old .gov has made life easier for them. New tech is coming along to produce milk. Rinse repeat. 'Maters will get harvested by machine. |
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Someone brought this up yesternday. I was told lazy Americans don't want to do the work, even at 30/hr. If that IS the case then this country is fucked. Picking tuhmaters and arnges for 60k a year and people don't want to do it cause they're lazy POSs, ya we're fucked. Fuck! I'd pick 'maters for $30/hour |
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