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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:29:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No union members in slaughterhouses? Alright. I'm done entertaining you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Either illegals in sub-sanitary conditions or union extortionists getting waaay too much for what they do. Getting rid of both would be a happy medium. We could have safe and affordable meat and decent jobs for legal citizens or guest workers. Let me make it simple for you....they are no union members in slaughter houses. It's all Hispanic labor. So I guess eating veggies and meat is out for the working class that can't afford cost of living as is. Slaughter houses where hispanics work area all FDA approved.... Wanna guess who dominates in dairy production?  No union members in slaughterhouses? Alright. I'm done entertaining you. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:32:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm confused. One day the left tells me that we have such a surplus of unskilled labor that we need to increase the minimum wage so people don't starve. The next day the story is that we have to import more unskilled labor or the economy will grind to a halt. Which is it? Edited for spelling. Yup, and don't forget that we keep hearing from the billionaire techocrate class that we need a basic minimum income because in 30 years the vast majority of transport, service, non master level skilled tradesmen/craftsmen/artisan/ jobs will be gone. Along with shitload of medical and IT jobs. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:34:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know how someone can be so consistently wrong on so many different things. I do. When the mission is willful disruptiveness, being contrarian is easy. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:41:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Fox news did a segment on deportations. One aspect that they talked about was criminals and drugs, but they also talked about farmers. They had footage of a farmer in Florida complaining that he used to ship 80 loads of Tomatoes per day and now he is down to shipping 20 loads of tomatoes per day. The farmer (angrily) said 'They ain't takin' no ones jobs because no one will do this job!' The reporter said that the farmer couldn't find people to work for $150/day picking tomatoes like the Mexicans will. So, one side of the coin is that we have to enforce our laws and keep the criminals and drugs out of our country. The other side of the coin is that, like it or not, a big portion of our economy is dependent on illegal immigrants. If the farmer can't find anyone to pick the tomatoes, then his vegetables are going to rot on the vine causing food shortages and higher prices. If the farmer has to start offering better wages and benefits to get people to pick the tomatoes, then (assuming that people will still take those jobs) we're going to see substantially higher food prices. Some farmers may be forced out of business either way, because foreign farms can produce and import food cheaper than American farmers can. You can probably apply this to a lot of different areas of our economy. Here in Texas (and probably through out the south and south west) construction and housing relies heavily on illegal immigrants for labor. Smaller labor pool could lead to housing shortages causing prices to rise, maintenance costs to rise, etc. Are there going to be negative unintended consequences of the Trump deportation plan? 1st three posts |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:45:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No union members in slaughterhouses? Alright. I'm done entertaining you. they certainly don't dominate/control the industry |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:45:45 PM EDT
[#6]
People keep forgetting that labor is only a portion of the cost of a product. If you double the cost of labor, the cost of the product isn't going up anywhere near double.
As someone pointed out in the milk and illegal labor thread, the cost of labor for milk is about 10% I think they said. If a gallon of milk is $2, the cost of labor would be 20 cents in this case if that figure is correct. Double the labor cost and you're still only be about $2.20 for a gallon of milk. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:49:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Cost savings of not supporting the illegal population - increased cost of vegetables = profit!
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:50:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullshit. But just for the sake of argument, say that only Mexicans will pick our produce. Well then we need to set up a system where they come here, pick the shit, and get the fuck out once it is done. Along with no food stamps, public housing, free school for there kids or any other welfare and they pay taxes. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:52:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Easy - you want foodstamps / welfare - you are not disabled - we have a brilliant job for you - go pick tomatoes ..... 
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:53:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Rent prisoners from the county jail...
Welfare to workfair. Either way, illegals are a net loss for the US. They cost a fortune in services. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:01:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rent prisoners from the county jail... Welfare to workfair. Either way, illegals are a net loss for the US. They cost a fortune in services. Illegal labor adds adds $380-620 billion to the GDP while the most liberal illegal welfare costs is $113 billion |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:04:09 PM EDT
[#12]
I don't know if this has already been said or not, but you can't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. So much about this country is fucked up, and so many of our problems are directly related to poor policy. End welfare if you want to eat then you better take that $150 a day to pick tomatoes. If you don't you can starve. I no longer have any fucks to give.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:05:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
If the farmer can't find anyone to pick the tomatoes, then his vegetables are going to rot on the vine causing food shortages and higher prices. If the farmer has to start offering better wages and benefits to get people to pick the tomatoes, then (assuming that people will still take those jobs) we're going to see substantially higher food prices. The farmer should hire robots. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:07:53 PM EDT
[#14]
I was picking tomatoes for $2/hr 20 years ago. It's great money when your a kid.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:09:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Illegal labor adds adds $380-620 billion to the GDP while the most liberal illegal welfare costs is $113 billion Sorry but there is no way that this is correct. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:09:56 PM EDT
[#16]
The farmer (angrily) said 'They ain't takin' no ones jobs because no one will do this job!? Bullshit. If the job is worth doing, someone will pay someone enough to do it. The fiscal element of illegal labor is largely irrelvant; you don't get to simply import more votes whenever the fuck you feel like it, or more bodies to skew census results for the purpose of apportioning congressional seats. This is not negotiable. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:11:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Of course
But we knew this all along, it will be painful to start |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:12:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Illegal labor adds adds $380-620 billion to the GDP while the most liberal illegal welfare costs is $113 billion Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Rent prisoners from the county jail... Welfare to workfair. Either way, illegals are a net loss for the US. They cost a fortune in services. Illegal labor adds adds $380-620 billion to the GDP while the most liberal illegal welfare costs is $113 billion Move to Mexico and enjoy all the illegals you want..we don't want them here... |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:13:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People keep forgetting that labor is only a portion of the cost of a product. If you double the cost of labor, the cost of the product isn't going up anywhere near double. As someone pointed out in the milk and illegal labor thread, the cost of labor for milk is about 10% I think they said. If a gallon of milk is $2, the cost of labor would be 20 cents in this case if that figure is correct. Double the labor cost and you're still only be about $2.20 for a gallon of milk. That's only one point in the overall biggest picture where illegal labor is involved. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:14:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry but there is no way that this is correct. well.... it is. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:17:28 PM EDT
[#21]
His tomatoes suck anyway .....
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:23:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know if this has already been said or not, but you can't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. So much about this country is fucked up, and so many of our problems are directly related to poor policy. End welfare if you want to eat then you better take that $150 a day to pick tomatoes. If you don't you can starve. I no longer have any fucks to give. Except, do you know who will be in the fields pickin' tomatoes for welfare? Racism! |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:24:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Illegal labor adds adds $380-620 billion to the GDP while the most liberal illegal welfare costs is $113 billion Where did you get those numbers from? |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:27:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Fox news did a segment on deportations. One aspect that they talked about was criminals and drugs, but they also talked about farmers. They had footage of a farmer in Florida complaining that he used to ship 80 loads of Tomatoes per day and now he is down to shipping 20 loads of tomatoes per day. The farmer (angrily) said 'They ain't takin' no ones jobs because no one will do this job!' The reporter said that the farmer couldn't find people to work for $150/day picking tomatoes like the Mexicans will. So, one side of the coin is that we have to enforce our laws and keep the criminals and drugs out of our country. The other side of the coin is that, like it or not, a big portion of our economy is dependent on illegal immigrants. If the farmer can't find anyone to pick the tomatoes, then his vegetables are going to rot on the vine causing food shortages and higher prices. If the farmer has to start offering better wages and benefits to get people to pick the tomatoes, then (assuming that people will still take those jobs) we're going to see substantially higher food prices. Some farmers may be forced out of business either way, because foreign farms can produce and import food cheaper than American farmers can. You can probably apply this to a lot of different areas of our economy. Here in Texas (and probably through out the south and south west) construction and housing relies heavily on illegal immigrants for labor. Smaller labor pool could lead to housing shortages causing prices to rise, maintenance costs to rise, etc. Are there going to be negative unintended consequences of the Trump deportation plan? |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:29:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Illegal labor adds adds $380-620 billion to the GDP while the most liberal illegal welfare costs is $113 billion yeah but replacing illegal labor adds more to the gdp with a loss of zero. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:30:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Illegal labor adds adds $380-620 billion to the GDP while the most liberal illegal welfare costs is $113 billion I've no doubt many a slave owner had similar arguments attempting to justify their exploitative business model... |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:30:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Move to Mexico and enjoy all the illegals you want..we don't want them here... lol when faced with numbers that doesn't fit the narrative we go back to "i don't care I rather cut off my nose to spite my face!!!" |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:30:33 PM EDT
[#28]
I get so sick of this whole "doing the work Americans won't do thing." I've spent time in two countries that are both highly agricultural and have about zero illegal immigrant labor and are mostly white. (Australia and New Zealand) And you know what? The produce gets picked, the garbage gets collected, the food gets cooked in restaurants, houses are built, yards are landscaped. All by the people who live there legally. The market adjusts. Both countries do have a pretty high minimum wage. Tipping is non-existent. But the work gets done. Some of it costs more and some of it gets done smarter and some of it is done by college kids and so on.
I think the biggest difference is with decent wages and smart people doing the work it gets thought of as a profession. Something you can do for awhile. I remember the garbage collectors in AU. They seemed to having a good time at work. And in NZ a lot of the produce pickers were college kids and they worked hard but somehow managed to turn it into a party. And there is LOT of produce in NZ. Who knows. Just reporting what I have seen. In both places produce seemed to cost about twice what it does here but you just shop smarter, don't let things go bad in the fridge and so on. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:34:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did you get those numbers from? GDP came from here, but it's from a American Action Network study ("conservative" think tank) http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-deportations-idUSKCN0XW0TP The $113 has been stated by Trump many times but comes from: http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:35:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've no doubt many a slave owner had similar arguments attempting to justify their exploitative business model... illegals come here on their on free will.... apples and airplanes..... |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:37:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Hardly any illegals here and I grow my own tomatoes. So, guess I'll just enjoy watching what happens when this boat shakes off one of the anchors.
The cost of illegal immigration far outweighs any benefit you can cook up. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:38:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-deportations-idUSKCN0XW0TP The $113 has been stated by Trump many times but comes from: http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-deportations-idUSKCN0XW0TP The $113 has been stated by Trump many times but comes from: http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers Donald Trump's vow to round up and deport all of America's undocumented immigrants Not what he's doing. Yes, I realize that this is what we're discussing, but this literally isn't what is happening. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:43:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's more than just farmers, and it's a fact that American businesses are addicted to cheap labor from illegal immigrants. Yup. "For 36 years, Trump has denied knowingly using undocumented workers to demolish the building that would be replaced with Trump Tower in 1980. But thousands of pages of documents from the case, including reams of testimony and sworn depositions reviewed by TIME, tell a different story." http://time.com/4465744/donald-trump-undocumented-workers/ |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:43:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Easy - you want foodstamps / welfare - you are not disabled - we have a brilliant job for you - go pick tomatoes ..... |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:45:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone brought this up yesternday. I was told lazy Americans don't want to do the work, even at 30/hr. If that IS the case then this country is fucked. Picking tuhmaters and arnges for 60k a year and people don't want to do it cause they're lazy POSs, ya we're fucked. They're paid for each basket of fruit they take to the truck, not by the hour worked. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:45:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
End welfare. Problem solved. This. People will do any job for money if you stop giving them free money. Tired of these BS stories in the news-- "We need Mexicans because they do work that white people [fill in race] don't do." Utter bullshit. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:45:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get so sick of this whole "doing the work Americans won't do thing." I've spent time in two countries that are both highly agricultural and have about zero illegal immigrant labor and are mostly white. (Australia and New Zealand) And you know what? The produce gets picked, the garbage gets collected, the food gets cooked in restaurants, houses are built, yards are landscaped. All by the people who live there legally. The market adjusts. Both countries do have a pretty high minimum wage. Tipping is non-existent. But the work gets done. Some of it costs more and some of it gets done smarter and some of it is done by college kids and so on. I think the biggest difference is with decent wages and smart people doing the work it gets thought of as a profession. Something you can do for awhile. I remember the garbage collectors in AU. They seemed to having a good time at work. And in NZ a lot of the produce pickers were college kids and they worked hard but somehow managed to turn it into a party. And there is LOT of produce in NZ. Who knows. Just reporting what I have seen. In both places produce seemed to cost about twice what it does here but you just shop smarter, don't let things go bad in the fridge and so on. both countries happen to be socialist too..... |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:46:02 PM EDT
[#38]
BULL that's 18.75 ab hour on an 8 hour day L
IF HE PAYS CASH UNDER THE TABLE Ii'LL WORK H=FOR HIM ALL Spring break , I need a DBALa3 |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:46:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone brought this up yesternday. I was told lazy Americans don't want to do the work, even at 30/hr. If that IS the case then this country is fucked. Picking tuhmaters and arnges for 60k a year and people don't want to do it cause they're lazy POSs, ya we're fucked. Fuck! I'd pick 'maters for $30/hour |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:49:08 PM EDT
[#40]
There's that first post thing again.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:49:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
both countries happen to be socialist too..... The "Socialist" label is applied far too loosely these days. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:50:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What they SHOULD do is deport all the lazy fucking welfare leaches instead of the Mexicans that actually WANT to work for a living. That would kill two birds with one stone.  I could support that idea. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:51:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no problem with a guest worker program IF that is needed. Just don't bring your kids, pregnant wife, etc. Harvest the crop and go home. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
most AG field jobs still pay by the amount you pick $X per bushel, etc. I get you wouldn't last a year pulling 10 hours shits bent over all day in direct sun picking berries in 90*F http://www.bjhchs.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Strawberry-Picker-Migrant-Workers-1053903.jpg http://www.smfws.com/Workers%20carrying%20banana%20peppers%20at%20Kenda%20Farms%202003%20(PBP).JPG I have no problem with a guest worker program IF that is needed. Just don't bring your kids, pregnant wife, etc. Harvest the crop and go home. This is how shit worked before 30,000,000 illegals stormed our borders. Migrant farm workers.... They would come up (legally) from Mexico for harvest, make money and head back home with their pockets stuffed full of cash for their hard labor. A lot of illegals want to work, do work and work hard. Problem is, a lot of them want to not work, leech social services and expect the USA to be exactly like Mexico minus the corruption, racism and classism that exists down there (and they want the gringoes to pay for all of it). |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:52:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How long do you think that most voters will be willing to put up with a painful ordeal and Democratic rhetoric saying "SEE! WE TOLD YOU SO!" before voters put them back in power and they start fucking us all over again? Is deporting the illegal aliens the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Is ending welfare the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Is building a wall the right thing to do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Do I want to do these things as much as you do? YES! ABSOLUTELY! But, I just don't practically see ending welfare and forcing the lazy to pick tomatoes if they want to eat as being something that is going to happen. I just don't see it as a political option that is going to happen. If we can't fix these problems and many more like them through the political process than we might as well let the democrats have at it. Let's get this party started. These things are destroying the country. The current course we are on is unsustainable. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:52:28 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not what he's doing. Yes, I realize that this is what we're discussing, but this literally isn't what is happening. same numbers divide per each illegal still shows that they add more to the US GDP then they get in welfare. The logical conclusion is that we should just cut off the welfare and let them contribute to our GDP. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:57:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The "Socialist" label is applied far too loosely these days. they have universal "free" healthcare, state funded pension, supported higher education, etc..... |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 12:00:06 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol when faced with numbers that doesn't fit the narrative we go back to "i don't care I rather cut off my nose to spite my face!!!" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Move to Mexico and enjoy all the illegals you want..we don't want them here... lol when faced with numbers that doesn't fit the narrative we go back to "i don't care I rather cut off my nose to spite my face!!!" No, it's not cutting our nose off, maybe removing a huge cancerous growth, but that's about it..Like I said, the illegals are leaving regardless what your opinion is..you want them in your life, you best get packing as well...Americans have spoken, and President Trump is making it happen... |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 12:00:15 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Simple solution, start growing food on your own, it's not that hard people  It is when you live in a small, studio apartment, and have no place to grow food.
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Posted: 2/22/2017 12:01:39 AM EDT
[#49]
I bet "Farmer John" puts his illegals up in barracks that would make a big city tenement slum lord blush.
Most county zoning/health dept heads in ag areas are real fucking cozy with the Farmer Johns when it comes to looking the other way at the living conditions they provide to their workers. Hell, one orchard owner in my AO was pumping water to a barracks out of a well that was used to fill/clean his chemical sprayers. A couple illegals got sick from it and they traced it back and found all kinds of nasty shit in the water the migrants were drinking and cooking with. |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 12:05:33 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You actually believe those that employ illegals make huge profits?  Is that why farms are going out of business at accelerating rate?Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't be absurd. The consumer certainly benefited, but saving a few bucks per month hardly classifies as a "windfall." You actually believe those that employ illegals make huge profits? Is that why farms are going out of business at accelerating rate?Reading comprehension. I didn't say anything about the employers. I said that it's an exaggeration for you to call the small amount of money that the consumer saves "a windfall." |
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