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Posted: 2/20/2017 10:52:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, this thread is turning out just like I figured. Let's see the highlights 1. Ops get called a liar and that he can't afford a car 2. The cult of pay cash for everything has made an appearance 3. The honest car guys on here get called liars and cheaters by folks who buy used pos cars one every 30 years Did I get most of it? been reading all the crap here funny, except i pay cash u just about summed it all up i think nice job about 5 yrs ago bought my wife a new bmw 7series. signed paper work went home. pick up next day. no trade involved. they called and said we would owe them 5 k more or no deal. ALL PAPER WORK SIGNED SEALED. hung up called our law firm. they made it clear to dealer what was so. picked up car next day. asked dealer sales mgr if this ever worked. he told me about 50%. shit head didn't even look sheepish. said few ever even had lawyer's. said he didn't know who we were or would not have had salesman called. if i hadn't been there i would not have believed it. 1texan 1texan |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 10:53:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't need to authorize someone to make a lease payment on your behalf. If you got hold of my lease info, you could mail a check to my leasing company and pay all of my lease payments if you wanted. I would say thanks, and drive my car through the end of the term. Acura doesn't care who paid or was authorized to pay. All they know is that they got a payment referencing an account number. As long as they applied the funds to the right account, that's that. For all they know it's OP's generous uncle paying the tab for him. There's no legal basis to sue Acura. They had an outstanding account that was paid, and the car returned - account closed. The dealer had an agreement with the OP to payoff the lease and roll that into the financing, but they fucked up by making the payment to Acura prior to securing financing, and the law says they have to unwind the deal, but because of their fuckup they are most likely not in a position to do that. That's my point. Without the OP's explicit authorization to make the payment on his behalf prior to closing, the dealer made the payment out of the goodness of their heart and they have no way to prove otherwise. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 10:53:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should read "The Millionaire Next Door" before you go spouting off. Not apples to apples - that book compares buying a new car to and older one of lesser value. If you were to compare buying a new car cash vs finance if the interest rate is low enough it would make more sense to finance as ones incveatement portfolio would out pace the finance/depreciation rate. However the argument would then be made new vs used. However that is not the question here |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 10:56:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A repo and a $14,000 unpaid collection will be what they will be reporting. The repo would not be reportable because there was no financial agreements violated between the dealer and the OP. The dealer would be repossessing a vehicle they loaned to the Op, not sold to him. They'll have to have a court order for a collection of the $14k. Where in the paperwork were they authorized by the OP to dispose of the OP's property prior to the contract being finalized? Can you post a picture of the verbiage in your sales agreements that state those terms. 
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:00:01 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:01:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They'll have to have a court order for that collection. Where in the paperwork were they authorized by the OP to dispose of the OP's property prior to the contract being finalized? Can you post a picture of the verbiage in your sales agreements that state those terms. I would like to see ALL the paperwork. I'm home now but will gladly provide with verbiage on sales and finance contracts that we and many other dealers use. PM me your email address and I will copy them and send them to you tomorrow. They will be in PDF format. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:03:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A repo and a $14,000 unpaid collection will be what they will be reporting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No way is he walking away with the new truck. That's a given. Park that baby on their lot and hand the keys over. He does have a very good chance of walking away from this without his $14k lease, His credit will not be impacted because Acura will report the lease as paid and the dealer has nothing to report. A repo and a $14,000 unpaid collection will be what they will be reporting. And just how does that make OP whole again per IL state law? The dealer in is violation of the law if they can't provide the down payment and the trade-in in return for their truck. That ship has sailed, and it's not the OP's fault the dealership didn't wait until the deal was funded per the contracted terms. Given the specific bulletin found by Aquaman back on p. 2, it sounds like the AG already has a hardon for dealerships that do this. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:09:17 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A repo and a $14,000 unpaid collection will be what they will be reporting. How does this account for the OP not having his Acura for 21 more months, since you think he should pay for it? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:09:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And just how does that make OP whole again per IL state law? The dealer in is violation of the law if they can't provide the down payment and the trade-in in return for their truck. That ship has sailed, and it's not the OP's fault the dealership didn't wait until the deal was funded per the contracted terms. Given the specific bulletin found by Aquaman back on p. 2, it sounds like the AG already has a hardon for dealerships that do this. That's why I wish to see both sides of the story. And so would a judge. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:09:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's my point. Without the OP's explicit authorization to make the payment on his behalf prior to closing, the dealer made the payment out of the goodness of their heart and they have no way to prove otherwise. I see what you're saying. The dealer should have had the OP sign ppwk as part of the deal showing why the financing was for the new truck is inflated 14k. I say should because they fucked up a lot here, so who knows. But there's still very likely to be a paper trail connecting the lease payoff to the deal that was made. When I did something similar, I signed ppwk showing what they were paying on my lease separate from the actual deal I made on the new car. (ETA - to clarify if the deal didn't have any issued the OP would be obligated to pay the total loan amount, including an extra 14k - he couldn't just back out of that portion of the loan once it was paid off - I think what's important to note is that the deal is with the OP and the Dealer, Acura has been satisfied and is in no way involved in this fuck up to sue or recoup money from). In the end, we're coming to the same conclusion. Either OP will return the truck and walk away, or the dealer will make the financing work at the original terms. But he should make damn sure Acura provides written proof that everything is satisfactorily paid off before returning the truck. Consumer protection laws for car buying exist for this exact reason (well maybe not this exact scenario, but for instance like this where the dealer fucks up and tries to recoup their mistake at the customers expense). They're really clear in many states. Here in FL if you threaten to go to the State AG, if the customer has any shred of support, the dealer will fold very quickly, because the laws are very much in favor of the customer. Someone in the dealer is about to or already has been fired for this. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:12:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How does this account for the OP not having his Acura for 21 more months, since you think he should pay for it? 21 months OWING on it that he now feels he does not have to pay for since the dealer did pay out in good faith. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:12:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Why would OP turn the Acura in with 21 more months (and payments) left on a lease?
I can think of two reasons: He already maxed out his miles or As mentioned before, he can't make a truck payment AND an Acura payment for the next 21 months, but he can swing adding an extra year or two on the trucks back end to make the next 21 months manageable. or both I suppose. Either way, this could be the OP's dream car deal. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:14:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
21 months OWING on it that he now feels he does not have to pay for since the dealer did pay out in good faith. If he still had the Acura, he could drive it for the next 21 months. I don't see where you think he will get his Acura back for the next 21 months. Does that count for nothing? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:17:43 PM EDT
[#14]
OP...I would run, not walk to the phone. Call GMAC or whomever financed your new truck, make a payment. Once they accept the payment the dealer has zero recourse. GMAC has at that point acknowledged you have a legal binding contract.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:18:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
21 months OWING on it that he now feels he does not have to pay for since the dealer did pay out in good faith. OP pays for 21 months and in exchange, gets a car to drive. The dealership made a mistake and if they pass that fuck up on to the customer, he will still OWE but not have a car in exchange. The dealership should not have paid off the lease without first securing financing. The OP did nothing wrong but try and buy a car from a shit bag dealer. (not all are bad - I quite liked my recent car buying experience). |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:20:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP...I would run, not walk to the phone. Call GMAC or whomever financed your new truck, make a payment. Once they accept the payment the dealer has zero recourse. GMAC has at that point acknowledged you have a legal binding contract. GMAC didn't accept the loan. No one did |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:21:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If he still had the Acura, he could drive it for the next 21 months. I don't see where you think he will get his Acura back for the next 21 months. Does that count for nothing? That's $666.66 per month that the OP is no longer paying. Instead he decided to trade the car in because he wanted out of his lease and into a new truck. He now has the truck and is seemingly shunning what his lease obligation was since the GM dealer paid it out. It does not work that way and he signed for it. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:25:14 PM EDT
[#18]
OP will get a call in the AM with details of his new extended loan for a few extra years to keep the payment the same.
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I personally would walk away and rent a car for a few days till i found a new truck now that the dealer was nice enough to get him out of the lease free and clear. Turn in the truck go to your bank and get a approved auto loan then do some car shopping. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:29:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's $666.66 per month that the OP is no longer paying. Instead he decided to trade the car in because he wanted out of his lease and into a new truck. He now has the truck and is seemingly shunning what his lease obligation was since the GM dealer paid it out. It does not work that way and he signed for it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's $666.66 per month that the OP is no longer paying. Instead he decided to trade the car in because he wanted out of his lease and into a new truck. He now has the truck and is seemingly shunning what his lease obligation was since the GM dealer paid it out. It does not work that way and he signed for it. Dude, you said this Quoted:
A repo and a $14,000 unpaid collection will be what they will be reporting. If you believe that, you are putting no value on the fact the OP could still drive the Acura for 21 months if this clusterfuck never happened as he made his payments. I am asking you why you think that has no value. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:32:57 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's $666.66 per month that the OP is no longer paying. Instead he decided to trade the car in because he wanted out of his lease and into a new truck. He now has the truck and is seemingly shunning what his lease obligation was since the GM dealer paid it out. It does not work that way and he signed for it. He's not shunning anything. Before all of this, OP had an Acura Car and payment on that Acura. He then agreed to a new deal with the dealer where they pay the lease off (14k) and then roll that cost into the price of the new truck. (price + 14k). After that deal OP would have Truck and payment (which represents the 14k lease payoff plus cost of the truck). However, the dealer did a sign and drive before securing financing, and also wrote the check to Acura which closed out that account with them when the Acura was returned. Now it turns out they couldn't get the financing approved. So if the OP returns the truck, and has to pay back the dealer he has payment and NO car, and is worse off than before because the Dealer agreed to a deal they couldn't make good on while also setting a chain of events in motion that prevent the OP from receiving his original car back. If the dealership had not paid Acura first, and instead waited until financing was secured, they could just return the car to the OP, take the truck back, and everyone would be exactly where they were at the start. But because of the dealer fuckup, that's not possible - that is their problem. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:42:13 PM EDT
[#21]
OP's salesman and F&I wizard better hope he dont get a $14k chargeback to his current and future commissions
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:46:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He's not shunning anything. Before all of this, OP had an Acura Car and payment on that Acura. He then agreed to a new deal with the dealer where they pay the lease off (14k) and then roll that cost into the price of the new truck. (price + 14k). After that deal OP would have Truck and payment (which represents the 14k lease payoff plus cost of the truck). However, the dealer did a sign and drive before securing financing, and also wrote the check to Acura which closed out that account with them when the Acura was returned. Now it turns out they couldn't get the financing approved. So if the OP returns the truck, and has to pay back the dealer he has payment and NO car, and is worse off than before because the Dealer agreed to a deal they couldn't make good on while also setting a chain of events in motion that prevent the OP from receiving his original car back. If the dealership had not paid Acura first, and instead waited until financing was secured, they could just return the car to the OP, take the truck back, and everyone would be exactly where they were at the start. But because of the dealer fuckup, that's not possible - that is their problem. That is what I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around, all of it. There is (to me) a huge part of this puzzle that is missing. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:00:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is what I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around, all of it. There is (to me) a huge part of this puzzle that is missing. What you're missing is experience. It's very common for a dealer to sell a car based on a deal without actual approval. If someone comes in at 6pm to buy a car the banks are all closed. So the dealers negotiate the deal and the ppwk states that the deal is contingent on financing approval and until that happens the car is a loaner. Something else that's common is for a dealer to pay off the customers existing obligation and roll that cost into the deal. In this case the financing couldn't be secured at the agreed upon rate. That could be due to the finance manager getting a little aggressive, the banks being conservative, or the dealer not getting all of the manufacturer incentives it assumed to make the deal. That's what we don't know, but it really irrelavant. The dealer should have secured financing THEN paid off the lease. They did not and the financing didn't go through but the car was already returned to Acura. The OP wants the original deal and would pay it, but the dealer is going to lose money to get it done because of their mistake so they're trying to fuck the OP. If the OPs Acura could be returned there wouldn't be an issue and everyone could walk away. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:07:13 AM EDT
[#24]
The bank said no because if it is totaled, insurance won't cover the whole debt.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:14:05 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What you're missing is experience. It's very common for a dealer to sell a car based on a deal without actual approval. If someone comes in at 6pm to buy a car the banks are all closed. So the dealers negotiate the deal and the ppwk states that the deal is contingent on financing approval and until that happens the car is a loaner. Something else that's common is for a dealer to pay off the customers existing obligation and roll that cost into the deal. In this case the financing couldn't be secured at the agreed upon rate. That could be due to the finance manager getting a little aggressive, the banks being conservative, or the dealer not getting all of the manufacturer incentives it assumed to make the deal. That's what we don't know, but it really irrelavant. The dealer should have secured financing THEN paid off the lease. They did not and the financing didn't go through but the car was already returned to Acura. The OP wants the original deal and would pay it, but the dealer is going to lose money to get it done because of their mistake so they're trying to fuck the OP. If the OPs Acura could be returned there wouldn't be an issue and everyone could walk away. What my experience tells me is that there is more to the story. After 30 + years in the business I am very sceptical and would very much like to hear the other side of the story. I started siding with the OP as soon as he posted the thread, as more information came out I must repeat again, there is a huge piece of the puzzle missing and I will offer as much information that I can due to my "experience" with what is supposedly taken as fact here. So far it looks to me like the OP is not going to have things go as he intended. But's that just my humble opinion based on my experience. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:17:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bank said no because if it is totaled, insurance won't cover the whole debt. There's gap insurance for that. Not a big deal. The insurance agency I use will let me add and delete gap insurance as I please, so for the first 6 months of a new vehicle (even though I'm not upside down - usually right at or just under even) I'll pay a little extra to make damn sure if I total it I'm not out money. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:18:07 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bank said no because if it is totaled, insurance won't cover the whole debt. For anyone who balks at GAP policies, I once had one pay $12,000 between what insurance paid and what I owed on a car that was declared a total loss. That was the best return on $600 that I ever had in my life. The way I see it, I could buy a GAP policy on every vehicle that I finance for the rest of my life and still be covered by that initial payoff! |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:30:35 AM EDT
[#28]
Congrats on making the moron statement of the day. The Sales people are the messengers...we aren't the ones coming up with the numbers. We just relay the message.
The more I'm on GD, the more I realize how uneducated many of the members are on this forum. Once in a while, I'll actually see some thought out and great suggestions, but most comments are from those that have no clue what they are typing. But rack up your post counts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Car salesmen, the most trustworthy folks on the planet  |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:33:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What my experience tells me is that there is more to the story. After 30 + years in the business I am very sceptical and would very much like to hear the other side of the story. I started siding with the OP as soon as he posted the thread, as more information came out I must repeat again, there is a huge piece of the puzzle missing and I will offer as much information that I can due to my "experience" with what is supposedly taken as fact here. So far it looks to me like the OP is not going to have things go as he intended. But's that just my humble opinion based on my experience. "More to the story" is that the salesman wanted to make a sale no matter what instead of letting the OP walk. He probably knew (or at least he should have known) that adding $14K onto the price of the truck wasn't going to get financed - but he didn't give a shit as long as he got credit for a sale. He may have even expedited the return to Acura himself so it would be a huge headache & OP couldn't undo this bad deal later (yes, it's a bad deal if you make 21 lease payments on a car you don't have because you gave it back early) by dropping the truck off & driving away with the Acura once the inevitable happened. The salesman gambled with the owner's money & he lost this time. Then he compounded the problem by waiting 2 weeks, & then lying to OP about plates instead of being an adult & saying "there's a problem with your financing, you should come in so we can discuss it in person." |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:37:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's why I wish to see both sides of the story. And so would a judge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And just how does that make OP whole again per IL state law? The dealer in is violation of the law if they can't provide the down payment and the trade-in in return for their truck. That ship has sailed, and it's not the OP's fault the dealership didn't wait until the deal was funded per the contracted terms. Given the specific bulletin found by Aquaman back on p. 2, it sounds like the AG already has a hardon for dealerships that do this. That's why I wish to see both sides of the story. And so would a judge. Ah, ok - guess we're all waiting to see how this one turns out then. 
Good luck OP! |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:39:16 AM EDT
[#31]
This is a simple one....
Op returns truck Has lawyer send a demand letter to dealership for Acura and deposit, as he isn't buying anything from them. Dealership realizes this cannot be done eats 14k ,doesn't sue or litigate due to costs. Op buys truck of his choice elsewhere for less. Anyone that says his credit will suffer is dead wrong. No legal agreement in place to do this. If dealership tries to fuck with his credit or harass him it will only get worse for them. Op needs to find out how many dealers in area same owners own and avoid them As well. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:42:06 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Derp. Tell us your profession so I can make retarded blanket accusations about your job and industry. Show us on the doll where the bad salesman touched you. As is true with any sales job, if you have to lie to close, then you're a con, not a salesman. I never lie to my customers and much of my business is generated from repeats and referrals. On the flip side however, I am lied to dozens of times everyday by customers because all buyers are liars. No shit the first time I heard this was from a Greek Rug Merchant
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:44:24 AM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:54:59 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wrong, you're kind of just making shit up now. The GM dealer never owned the Acura. They paid to end the lease by making the last 21 remaining payments and it was dropped off at Acura as a lease return. I had to sign off for the end of lease and I have the final paperwork for it. All the GM dealer has is a bank account with $14,000 less in it. What do you expect, he's a crummy car saleman and is showing his true colors. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:58:44 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"More to the story" is that the salesman wanted to make a sale no matter what instead of letting the OP walk. He probably knew (or at least he should have known) that adding $14K onto the price of the truck wasn't going to get financed - but he didn't give a shit as long as he got credit for a sale. He may have even expedited the return to Acura himself so it would be a huge headache & OP couldn't undo this bad deal later (yes, it's a bad deal if you make 21 lease payments on a car you don't have because you gave it back early) by dropping the truck off & driving away with the Acura once the inevitable happened. The salesman gambled with the owner's money & he lost this time. Then he compounded the problem by waiting 2 weeks, & then lying to OP about plates instead of being an adult & saying "there's a problem with your financing, you should come in so we can discuss it in person." sorry, but the salesperson is way too far down the authority ladder to make that call. The salesperson doesn't even see the financing terms and he sure as hell wasn't the one cutting a check to send to Acura This is all on the finance dept |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 1:03:00 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"More to the story" is that the salesman wanted to make a sale no matter what instead of letting the OP walk. He probably knew (or at least he should have known) that adding $14K onto the price of the truck wasn't going to get financed - but he didn't give a shit as long as he got credit for a sale. He may have even expedited the return to Acura himself so it would be a huge headache & OP couldn't undo this bad deal later (yes, it's a bad deal if you make 21 lease payments on a car you don't have because you gave it back early) by dropping the truck off & driving away with the Acura once the inevitable happened. The salesman gambled with the owner's money & he lost this time. Then he compounded the problem by waiting 2 weeks, & then lying to OP about plates instead of being an adult & saying "there's a problem with your financing, you should come in so we can discuss it in person." The salesman is completely out of the picture once he has a deal signed off by his/her sales manager until the delivery takes place. The deal is then built by the sales manager and sent to the business office for the business manager to bring it up on his computer and get the customer in his office to interview and gather things such as credit info and how the customer plans on paying for his purchase. If it is a lease then yes the salesperson must set it up as so before finalizing the customer commitment but it is still an agreement to purchase or intent to possess. This is where the salesperson gets off easy, any screw up after the customer is turned over to the business office is not on the salesperson, but the business office. Any bullshit kinks that a salesperson presents floats to the top of the pile rather quickly in the business office, especially if it gets by the manager that signed off on the deal. Keeping a salesperson honest is pretty fucking easy, especially in a GM dealership and any major brand dealership for that matter (Dodge excluded). This whole scenario is looking like a sub-prime deal that was kinked from the get-go and a business office that tried to salvage it because of misinformation that was gleaned from not the salesperson, but the customer. JMHO. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 1:07:24 AM EDT
[#37]
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There are a few good car dealers and salesmen in this world. A few. I've bought nine new cars, and one used from a dealer. I've bought four new bikes and one used from a dealer. I've had two try to screw me over, walked away from a couple when they tried steering me wrong, but most of them were good and a couple went above and beyond. It definitely helps when you go in with your shit together. I've also found that paying cash doesn't get you any better treatment than going in with an 800+ credit rating and financing. Best treatment I got was telling them I can pay cash, or finance, whatever gets me the best deal. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 1:13:32 AM EDT
[#38]
One tell them to fuck off
Two this is why I am glad i always finance through my bank, once the cut the dealer the check its too bad so sad 
Had that happen with a Mazda mini van in 2000, I said my bank said you cashed the check right...uhhh well uhhhh Sorry buddy you have a nice day, mine wasn't as bad as yours, but they were saying the sales guy fucked up etc etc.. They wanted to raise my payment almost $100 more a month, Once I found out the check had been cashed I just told the guy to have a nice day. Drove that POS 230k and 11 yrs, got $3k trade in on it. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 1:24:16 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What my experience tells me is that there is more to the story. After 30 + years in the business I am very sceptical and would very much like to hear the other side of the story. I started siding with the OP as soon as he posted the thread, as more information came out I must repeat again, there is a huge piece of the puzzle missing and I will offer as much information that I can due to my "experience" with what is supposedly taken as fact here. So far it looks to me like the OP is not going to have things go as he intended. But's that just my humble opinion based on my experience. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What you're missing is experience. It's very common for a dealer to sell a car based on a deal without actual approval. If someone comes in at 6pm to buy a car the banks are all closed. So the dealers negotiate the deal and the ppwk states that the deal is contingent on financing approval and until that happens the car is a loaner. Something else that's common is for a dealer to pay off the customers existing obligation and roll that cost into the deal. In this case the financing couldn't be secured at the agreed upon rate. That could be due to the finance manager getting a little aggressive, the banks being conservative, or the dealer not getting all of the manufacturer incentives it assumed to make the deal. That's what we don't know, but it really irrelavant. The dealer should have secured financing THEN paid off the lease. They did not and the financing didn't go through but the car was already returned to Acura. The OP wants the original deal and would pay it, but the dealer is going to lose money to get it done because of their mistake so they're trying to fuck the OP. If the OPs Acura could be returned there wouldn't be an issue and everyone could walk away. What my experience tells me is that there is more to the story. After 30 + years in the business I am very sceptical and would very much like to hear the other side of the story. I started siding with the OP as soon as he posted the thread, as more information came out I must repeat again, there is a huge piece of the puzzle missing and I will offer as much information that I can due to my "experience" with what is supposedly taken as fact here. So far it looks to me like the OP is not going to have things go as he intended. But's that just my humble opinion based on my experience. No shit, Sherlock. Neither is the dealer, if you haven't figured that one out yet. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 1:52:38 AM EDT
[#40]
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It always amazes me. $40k truck at stake. Doesn't want to spend 30 minutes in a law office getting the actual answer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ever notice nobody ever follows free legal advice even when it's good legal advice? There's a Ph.D. dissertation in there somewhere for some clinical psychology doctoral candidate... The best lawyer I know goes right the fuck out and contacts a SME when the issue is outside of her bailey-wick. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 1:53:42 AM EDT
[#41]
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Doctor: You should get that looked at. Poster: Hold on, what if instead I show GD another picture? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Works for Medical Advice on here too.... Poster: Hold on, what if instead I show GD another picture? You could rub some Tussin on it. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 1:54:55 AM EDT
[#42]
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I need a '17 Silverado 1500 High County Z71 with 4" lift around $14k. Make it happen. Can you pick it up in Matamoros and is a little blood on the driver seat ok? |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 2:02:28 AM EDT
[#43]
I also have 30+ years in the car business, and this looks really simple to me.
The deskman blew up the numbers to make this deal work - he had deal structure using the incentives in place and wanted a deal. OP wasn't a total bustout or he wouldn't have been sent to finance to sign and drive. OP signed in good faith and took delivery. The dealership didn't get lender approval in a timely manner, and then compounded their mistake by paying off the Acura lease prematurely. In a dealership group of this size - this one is ALL on the F&I director. Instead of going after OP, the dealership needs to UG the contract as submitted, and replace the F&I director. OP also needs to find a better attorney. Thank God I'm just a scumbag used car peddler these days. Management sucks.... |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 2:06:32 AM EDT
[#44]
Classic bait and switch. They are trying to fuck you. What does it say on your paperwork. VIN Match? Tell them to FOAD.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 2:07:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What my experience tells me is that there is more to the story. After 30 + years in the business I am very sceptical and would very much like to hear the other side of the story. I started siding with the OP as soon as he posted the thread, as more information came out I must repeat again, there is a huge piece of the puzzle missing and I will offer as much information that I can due to my "experience" with what is supposedly taken as fact here. So far it looks to me like the OP is not going to have things go as he intended. But's that just my humble opinion based on my experience. Whether it was a mistake or inentional, at the end of the day, the dealer paid off the OP's contract with Acura. If the banks will not finance him at terms that are agreeable to him, it looks like the purchase contract will be cancelled in which case he must return the truck and they return his $14k debt. That finance clause in the purchase agreement isn't there by accident. The tricky part is that he is supposed to get the use of a car for 21 more months for that $14k. The dealership may make him "whole again" buy leasing a comparable vehicle for 21 months at $666.66/month. Since the Acura was never his property, I'm not sure he can claim he must have that car back to be whole again. I don't see the dealership paying his contract off and walking away. Best he can hope for is coming out a little ahead with a newer lease car. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 2:15:38 AM EDT
[#46]
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Keeping a salesperson honest is pretty fucking easy, especially in a GM dealership and any major brand dealership for that matter (Dodge excluded). JMHO. Why's that? |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 7:39:12 AM EDT
[#47]
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"More to the story" is that the salesman wanted to make a sale no matter what instead of letting the OP walk. He probably knew (or at least he should have known) that adding $14K onto the price of the truck wasn't going to get financed - but he didn't give a shit as long as he got credit for a sale. He may have even expedited the return to Acura himself so it would be a huge headache & OP couldn't undo this bad deal later (yes, it's a bad deal if you make 21 lease payments on a car you don't have because you gave it back early) by dropping the truck off & driving away with the Acura once the inevitable happened. The salesman gambled with the owner's money & he lost this time. Then he compounded the problem by waiting 2 weeks, & then lying to OP about plates instead of being an adult & saying "there's a problem with your financing, you should come in so we can discuss it in person." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What my experience tells me is that there is more to the story. After 30 + years in the business I am very sceptical and would very much like to hear the other side of the story. I started siding with the OP as soon as he posted the thread, as more information came out I must repeat again, there is a huge piece of the puzzle missing and I will offer as much information that I can due to my "experience" with what is supposedly taken as fact here. So far it looks to me like the OP is not going to have things go as he intended. But's that just my humble opinion based on my experience. "More to the story" is that the salesman wanted to make a sale no matter what instead of letting the OP walk. He probably knew (or at least he should have known) that adding $14K onto the price of the truck wasn't going to get financed - but he didn't give a shit as long as he got credit for a sale. He may have even expedited the return to Acura himself so it would be a huge headache & OP couldn't undo this bad deal later (yes, it's a bad deal if you make 21 lease payments on a car you don't have because you gave it back early) by dropping the truck off & driving away with the Acura once the inevitable happened. The salesman gambled with the owner's money & he lost this time. Then he compounded the problem by waiting 2 weeks, & then lying to OP about plates instead of being an adult & saying "there's a problem with your financing, you should come in so we can discuss it in person." This sounds like the most plausible explanation to me. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:02:11 AM EDT
[#48]
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Whether it was a mistake or inentional, at the end of the day, the dealer paid off the OP's contract with Acura. If the banks will not finance him at terms that are agreeable to him, it looks like the purchase contract will be cancelled in which case he must return the truck and they return his $14k debt. That finance clause in the purchase agreement isn't there by accident. The tricky part is that he is supposed to get the use of a car for 21 more months for that $14k. The dealership may make him "whole again" buy leasing a comparable vehicle for 21 months at $666.66/month. Since the Acura was never his property, I'm not sure he can claim he must have that car back to be whole again. I don't see the dealership paying his contract off and walking away. Best he can hope for is coming out a little ahead with a newer lease car. That's not allowed. If it were allowed it's a backdoor way to force people into leasing new cars from the dealer. To put it another way, they advertise that they'll pay off any lease. Then they blow up the financing or say it never went through but oops we also returned your car so you have to lease this car we have. There is a reason why consumer protection laws state that everything must be returned to the client. In this case the OP had legal responsibility for the car as part of the lease, which is the same as owning it as far as the dealer is concerned. If they can't return the original car the OP has a complaint to file. I'll be curious to see what the dealer says this AM. Have a feeling they may have a nicer tone when they realize they are in a bad spot. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:07:09 AM EDT
[#49]
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That is what I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around, all of it. There is (to me) a huge part of this puzzle that is missing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He's not shunning anything. Before all of this, OP had an Acura Car and payment on that Acura. He then agreed to a new deal with the dealer where they pay the lease off (14k) and then roll that cost into the price of the new truck. (price + 14k). After that deal OP would have Truck and payment (which represents the 14k lease payoff plus cost of the truck). However, the dealer did a sign and drive before securing financing, and also wrote the check to Acura which closed out that account with them when the Acura was returned. Now it turns out they couldn't get the financing approved. So if the OP returns the truck, and has to pay back the dealer he has payment and NO car, and is worse off than before because the Dealer agreed to a deal they couldn't make good on while also setting a chain of events in motion that prevent the OP from receiving his original car back. If the dealership had not paid Acura first, and instead waited until financing was secured, they could just return the car to the OP, take the truck back, and everyone would be exactly where they were at the start. But because of the dealer fuckup, that's not possible - that is their problem. That is what I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around, all of it. There is (to me) a huge part of this puzzle that is missing. Not missing. OP likely did not have the credit/income to buy the truck AND pay the Acura lease and no one would finance the truck. However, once the lease on the Acura was satisfied/paid off, his income/debt ratio would change and the dealership/finance department figured the roll in and new truck would be approved. That is why they paid the lease off before trying to get financing for the truck. Calculated gamble, dealership lost. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:11:35 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"More to the story" is that the salesman wanted to make a sale no matter what instead of letting the OP walk. He probably knew (or at least he should have known) that adding $14K onto the price of the truck wasn't going to get financed - but he didn't give a shit as long as he got credit for a sale. He may have even expedited the return to Acura himself so it would be a huge headache & OP couldn't undo this bad deal later (yes, it's a bad deal if you make 21 lease payments on a car you don't have because you gave it back early) by dropping the truck off & driving away with the Acura once the inevitable happened. The salesman gambled with the owner's money & he lost this time. Then he compounded the problem by waiting 2 weeks, & then lying to OP about plates instead of being an adult & saying "there's a problem with your financing, you should come in so we can discuss it in person." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What my experience tells me is that there is more to the story. After 30 + years in the business I am very sceptical and would very much like to hear the other side of the story. I started siding with the OP as soon as he posted the thread, as more information came out I must repeat again, there is a huge piece of the puzzle missing and I will offer as much information that I can due to my "experience" with what is supposedly taken as fact here. So far it looks to me like the OP is not going to have things go as he intended. But's that just my humble opinion based on my experience. "More to the story" is that the salesman wanted to make a sale no matter what instead of letting the OP walk. He probably knew (or at least he should have known) that adding $14K onto the price of the truck wasn't going to get financed - but he didn't give a shit as long as he got credit for a sale. He may have even expedited the return to Acura himself so it would be a huge headache & OP couldn't undo this bad deal later (yes, it's a bad deal if you make 21 lease payments on a car you don't have because you gave it back early) by dropping the truck off & driving away with the Acura once the inevitable happened. The salesman gambled with the owner's money & he lost this time. Then he compounded the problem by waiting 2 weeks, & then lying to OP about plates instead of being an adult & saying "there's a problem with your financing, you should come in so we can discuss it in person." I've been following this thread with great interest and I think this poster nailed it. Will bookmark this to see the eventual outcome. |
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