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Posted: 1/21/2017 2:04:44 AM EDT
I'm looking at giving a saltwater setup a go in the future. Probably a live rock setup, coral sounds a bit much for a newbie. I've been reading up on them a bit but I don't want to waste too much time if it's a colossal pain in the ass. It seems like a fair bit more work than our current 55 gallon freshwater setup but it doesn't sound overly complicated. What would I be in for? Any horror stories?
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they are a LOT of fun. So much fun. Huge fun.
they are a TON of work, especially if you go small. The smaller they are the harder they are to keep alive, and the more work they are. it's EXPENSIVE. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it's steep. Lights, water, filters, monitoring, testing, RO system. It's a pain in the ass. If it's "your thing", it's worth it. Ultimately mine got to be a lot of work, I let it get out of hand, crashed it one week and gave it up. too hard to lose that much time and money to a business trip and some unknown water parameter that fubar'd the whole system. If you go, find a mentor or someone who can educate you, do some research, get a big tank, and automate as much as you can. There are local clubs that let you swap coral starts. And finally, buy all your stuff second hand. There's a TON of tank stuff on the secondary from guys like me who invest big, buy all the good stuff, boink a tank or just get sick of it all and firesale it all. It can be rewarding. Nothing is as beautiful as a well lit, properly stocked and well run slice of heaven that is a reef tank. They are otherworldly when well done, but go in eyes open, they are pretty sensitive systems, and can blow up fast if you don't stay on top of them. The more money you spend in automation, the easier it seems to be. I have a buddy who's run a 90 Gal for 15 years, but he's got several grand in automation, water levels, monitoring, cellular alerts, etc. And his light system cost more than my car. His tank is beautiful, but he bit off a huge investment getting it there. |
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I used to have over a thousand gallons of salt water in my house. Got rid of everything idk 8-10 years ago...... Now I have time to relax on my couch lol
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Thanks for the tips. We would be looking at getting a 100 gallon tank at least, possibly larger. Whether or not we would keep the 55 gallon freshwater tank going or not I don't know, might throw a couple large species in it and call it a day.
After the initial startup expenses are they also very expensive to maintain? This isn't factoring in the more expensive fish, I know what saltwater fish cost, I don't have a clue what it costs to run a tank. edit: aside from weekly/biweekly tank maintenance what are some of the routine, day to day monitoring tasks and about how much time did you guys find investing in the tank on an average week? Is it ok to go three days away from home on a hunting trip or is that just asking for disaster(assuming someone else stops by once or twice to feed but does nothing more)? |
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Tag. I had a setup 15 years ago. Pretty easy once it's established. I'd like to get back in the game. I have a great supply of perfect water. Btw.
I have questions in the morning when I'm sober. MAGA. |
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The cheapest part is the tank
Also learned the hard way that Zoanthids and Palythoa are poisonous |
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FPNI.
Once you have it set up and stable I don't find them to be anymore work than a freshwater tank. With that being said, any little change seems to destabilize the system then it takes a few weeks to get it tweaked back. I wouldn't start with less than a 90 gal tank, and bigger if you have the room and money. The larger the system the more stable the water parameters will stay and the better off the livestock will be. |
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I dont miss my aquariums. Wish I had all the money back that I have sunk into them
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I get asked this a lot .... my answer from experience has always been... "freshwater aquariums are a hobby.... saltwater aquariums are a job."
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One of the most valuable thing you will have is a good RO/DI system,Spectrapure make a nice one and they have kick ass Customer Service
http://spectrapure.com/RO-RODI |
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I've been looking at a lot of equipment but sorting out the decent stuff from the crap is a bit over my head. Just to cut to the chase, minus the cost of the tank/stand/lights what is a good ballpark dollar amount to get a 55-100 gallon live rock aquarium up and running?
edit: And is a live rock setup quite a bit easier for a beginner than coral or should I consider going coral right off the bat? Is there a significant difference in money and maintenance with coral? |
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Quoted:
Thanks for the tips. We would be looking at getting a 100 gallon tank at least, possibly larger. Whether or not we would keep the 55 gallon freshwater tank going or not I don't know, might throw a couple large species in it and call it a day. After the initial startup expenses are they also very expensive to maintain? This isn't factoring in the more expensive fish, I know what saltwater fish cost, I don't have a clue what it costs to run a tank. edit: aside from weekly/biweekly tank maintenance what are some of the routine, day to day monitoring tasks and about how much time did you guys find investing in the tank on an average week? Is it ok to go three days away from home on a hunting trip or is that just asking for disaster(assuming someone else stops by once or twice to feed but does nothing more)? View Quote Once my tank was setup and stable I spent maybe 10 minutes a daily for to tanks, then an hour once a week for 20% water changes. I kept plenty of top off water and mixed water ready to go in my garage. I used to leave my tank unattended for up to 7 days, once I had a auto top off system. With some of the automatic systems out there now, you can monitor the entire system over the internet. |
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Time.
Lots of time. They are not cheap by any means, and can not be thrown together all at once. You need to do them step by step and allow for the rock to die off and return. You will have many spikes in water quality and will need to do many changes initially. Good filters and lighting will be the biggest expense besides the rock. This will vary depending on where you live. I was paying $9/lb for Fiji rock in Denver 10 years ago. I had 40lbs in my 10 gallon. It took me a year to have it set to carry fish other than damsels. After all was said and done, I had around $1000 in this tank. I would add a few lbs of rock, let it die and return and do a water change and repeat. The clown after I finally got him in the tank lived 9 years. Water is your biggest hurdle, you will need to find a solid source of RO to buy or get a system yourself. Rock is a great biological filtration system, added with a good setup and a stable set of livestock and it becomes very easy to maintain. After mine was finished, I was doing water changes monthly and topping off every other day. Throw some food in every few days and it was a breeze. Cycle the tank with domino damsels, they are the best fish for it, can practically live in toilet water. Aggressive as hell though so I wouldn't plan on keeping them if you're going with more docile fish later. I gave mine back to the pet store when I was done with them, they gave me credit on clowns. Attached File |
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they are a LOT of fun. So much fun. Huge fun. they are a TON of work, especially if you go small. The smaller they are the harder they are to keep alive, and the more work they are. it's EXPENSIVE. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it's steep. Lights, water, filters, monitoring, testing, RO system. It's a pain in the ass. If it's "your thing", it's worth it. Ultimately mine got to be a lot of work, I let it get out of hand, crashed it one week and gave it up. too hard to lose that much time and money to a business trip and some unknown water parameter that fubar'd the whole system. If you go, find a mentor or someone who can educate you, do some research, get a big tank, and automate as much as you can. There are local clubs that let you swap coral starts. And finally, buy all your stuff second hand. There's a TON of tank stuff on the secondary from guys like me who invest big, buy all the good stuff, boink a tank or just get sick of it all and firesale it all. It can be rewarding. Nothing is as beautiful as a well lit, properly stocked and well run slice of heaven that is a reef tank. They are otherworldly when well done, but go in eyes open, they are pretty sensitive systems, and can blow up fast if you don't stay on top of them. The more money you spend in automation, the easier it seems to be. I have a buddy who's run a 90 Gal for 15 years, but he's got several grand in automation, water levels, monitoring, cellular alerts, etc. And his light system cost more than my car. His tank is beautiful, but he bit off a huge investment getting it there. View Quote First Post abso-f*cking-loutely Nailed It ! I had a 180 gallon system I ran for almost four years. Reef tank with a couple decorative fish. One day there was a power outage that lasted longer than my battery backup system could support the filters and pumps so when the batteries died the whole filtration and water handling system went down and did not come back up when the power came back on. But the lights came on on their timer and raised the water temperature because there was no water circulation to keep it cool. Four years of work and thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars cooked that day, and the temperature only changed by a few degrees. ...and I was gone from home for less than 24 hours. Craigslisted $5K-$7K worth of tank and system and every scrubber, towel, bucket, net, light, hose, wire, book, magazine, outlet strip I had... EVERYTHING for $1000. The guy that bought it nearly shat himself when he grasped what he was getting for a grand. Couldn't pack up everything in his truck fast enough because he probably thought I was going to change my mind. Never again. I'll get married and have kids before I get another salt water tank. A family would be cheaper and require less of a time investment. I now look at salt water tanks and the first thing that comes to mind is "thank god that's not mine", then I stand mesmerized by their beauty... Serious advice: get a dog instead. |
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FPNI. Once you have it set up and stable I don't find them to be anymore work than a freshwater tank. With that being said, any little change seems to destabilize the system then it takes a few weeks to get it tweaked back. View Quote It is very easy. I have a 22 gallon and it works great. |
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Had a beautiful 125 gallon reef system back in the day. I built a custom bio-filter system for it myself.
I had a clown triggerfish the size of your hand I raised from a tiny fingerling over 10 years, named Chester. He had attitude big-time for a fish. He would bite the fuck out of anything he didn't like, and squirt water 10 feet when he was hungry. He would swim and bob furiously when I came home from work every day, kinda like a dog. I loved him. One day he died in a cleaning accident when I put him in the same bucket with a stupid puffer that got scared and exuded a cloud of poison, and Chester died before I noticed. Fuck. About a year later I sold the system. Salt tanks are the shit, crystal clear and the most colorful fish, but go as big as you can afford, because bigger tanks are easier to maintain and control the chemistry. |
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I'm looking at giving a saltwater setup a go in the future. What would I be in for? View Quote Your words, "a colossal pain in the ass." Plus its cruel to take a fish out of the ocean/reef and put him/her in a tank, no matter how big. Many of the salt water fish are pretty intelligent. Think about how you would like it if you were a fish. |
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If you LOVE aquariums then do it. If not then dont. It will require a lot of time and patience ....oh yeah and money. Do NOT start out with a coral tank, stick to live rock. Honestly, if I could do it all over again I would have never had a saltwater tank. I simply did not have the time to invest in it. With the modern LED lighting a good cichlid tank can look just as good as a SW setup without all the headache IMHO.
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There is a YUUUGE difference between a simple salt tank and a reef tank.
The ones that are talking hard work, thousands of dollars, etc. were running what we used to call reef tanks. Like rock, corals, inverts, etc. Ii had one for a few years until a power failure killed it. |
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My brother had one so I have some experience with them.
Cool...but time consuming. He could never get his kids or wife (who are the ones who wanted it) to help with it so he was the one who always maintained it. If you don't mind the work, they are great. If you have better things to do with your time, and no one is willing to share the work, they aren't so great. |
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If you LOVE aquariums then do it. If not then dont. It will require a lot of time and patience ....oh yeah and money. Do NOT start out with a coral tank, stick to live rock. Honestly, if I could do it all over again I would have never had a saltwater tank. I simply did not have the time to invest in it. With the modern LED lighting a good cichlid tank can look just as good as a SW setup without all the headache IMHO. View Quote This man speaks the truth. Some of the Lake Malawi cichlids are as colorful as salt water fish. And they like hard & alkaline tap water. De-chlorinated of course! And you won't be destroying the ocean! |
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I dont miss my aquariums. Wish I had all the money back that I have sunk into them View Quote |
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If you like being a bit of an anal retentive water chemist weekly and not cut corners for years on end (i.e. not a whim), go for it. The chemistry set you work with will just happen to have pretty fishies in it.
Freshwater is not as intense, unless you go planted, then you need to do CO2 and spendy lighting and such. Planted freshwater is the "middle ground". Freshwater with fake plants, fish dies, no biggie financially. Saltwater is thousands in fish/coral dying because you thought you forgot to add Chemical X when making the water, so you added it twice. Remember, water changes are 10%-20% of the volume of the aquarium. Big ones look cool, but water does get annoyingly heavy quickly when looking at a 320 gallon instead of a 180 gallon, for example. You generally don't want to do Saltwater in under 100Gallons, since Dilution will save your fish on rookie mistakes. The extreme thing is "Nano-Reef", a complete reef aquarium (the most demanding saltwater, allows you to have Corals) in 10 gallons or less. A few days of evaporation will screw up the chemical balance nuke one of those. Like I said, anal retentive and able to not blow it off. If you've never had an aquarium before, go ahead and do what you are going to do anyway, and post a thread with updates. |
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We have a large tank at work with corals, shrimp, fish, crabs, etc that was professionally setup with a complex RO & filtration system, lights, etc. I feed the critters and sometimes I think it would be cool to get into it when I'm feeding the scarlet skunk shrimp out of my hand but they are a lot of work and expensive. We pay a guy to come in and maintain and checkup on the tank once a week and I do the mundane stuff between his visits. It's beautiful but you have to stay on top of things.
Attached File |
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I spent the majority of my working life selling, setting up and maintaining fresh and saltwater aquariums. Saltwater aquarium success is mostly determined in the way you set it up and stock it initially. A simple live rock and fish tank is a breeze to get up and running. As long as you operate within acceptable stocking parameters you'll have no issues. Go outside of those parameters.....and you'll hate life.
A couple of things to get you on your way. -ALWAYS use R.O. water. Regular tap is full of all sorts of stuff that encourages bad algae growth. You will never have a good looking tank if you use tap water. -For a fish only/live rock tank I recommend a t5-HO light set up. LEDs are great but can be a bit much for many tanks and lead to lots of time spent cleaning glass and live rock. You can do LOTS with t5-HO fixtures. Lots of corals will thrive under HO fixtures. -Change your bulbs every 9 months. As bulbs age they put out different wavelengths of light that encourage bad algae growth an will not provide the right wavelength for your rock and corals. -Research EVERY SINGLE THING you put into your tank. The guy at the lfs doesn't always know what he is selling. I've seen people who were sold fish that get to be 2 feet long to put into their 75 gallon aquarium. Buy fish according to how big they get as adults. Some fish will only live in schools of four or more. Also, many fish aren't suitable for the home aquarium in any way shape or form, but are sold any ways and will die 100% of the time. Bottom line. If you see a cool fish, go home and research the crap out of it before you buy it. Same goes for snails, soft corals ect. -Set up a small quarantine tank to house sick fish or new fish before you introduce them into the general population. If a fish is carrying diseases it's much better for them to ride it out and be treated in your quarantine tank. I like to put my live rock in the quarantine tank as well. You never know who is stowing away. -Don't over stock/ stock too quickly. Bad things always happen. Be patient and take your time. -most problems can be taken care of with a water change. There is no such thing as success in a bottle. If things are looking off.....do a water change and sit on your hands. Things will usually get better. I've seen more fish killed from the "treatment" of "problems" than I can even count. My 2c. -Kreate |
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Lots of good advice in here. All I can add is make sure you filtration is huge. The more the capacity your filtration the easy your lie will be.
90 gallon cube tanks are great for reefs. Glass WILL leak over time. If you do a reef don't put any damsel fish in. They are territorial assholes. Stay away from annanomies. When they die they will crash your tank. RO is a must. Small fish are great. Pyme angels, pseudo chromis, banner cardinals, and fish that don't naturally grow bigger than your palm. Good luck. |
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Lots of good advice in here. All I can add is make sure you filtration is huge. The more the capacity your filtration the easy your lie will be. 90 gallon cube tanks are great for reefs. Glass WILL leak over time. If you do a reef don't put any damsel fish in. They are territorial assholes. Stay away from annanomies. When they die they will crash your tank. RO is a must. Small fish are great. Pyme angels, pseudo chromis, banner cardinals, and fish that don't naturally grow bigger than your palm. Good luck. View Quote WTF? |
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Lots of good advice in here. All I can add is make sure you filtration is huge. The more the capacity your filtration the easy your lie will be. 90 gallon cube tanks are great for reefs. Glass WILL leak over time. If you do a reef don't put any damsel fish in. They are territorial assholes. Stay away from annanomies. When they die they will crash your tank. RO is a must. Small fish are great. Pyme angels, pseudo chromis, banner cardinals, and fish that don't naturally grow bigger than your palm. Good luck. WTF? anemones |
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If you like being a bit of an anal retentive water chemist weekly and not cut corners for years on end (i.e. not a whim), go for it. The chemistry set you work with will just happen to have pretty fishies in it. Freshwater is not as intense, unless you go planted, then you need to do CO2 and spendy lighting and such. Planted freshwater is the "middle ground". Freshwater with fake plants, fish dies, no biggie financially. Saltwater is thousands in fish/coral dying because you thought you forgot to add Chemical X when making the water, so you added it twice. Remember, water changes are 10%-20% of the volume of the aquarium. Big ones look cool, but water does get annoyingly heavy quickly when looking at a 320 gallon instead of a 180 gallon, for example. You generally don't want to do Saltwater in under 100Gallons, since Dilution will save your fish on rookie mistakes. The extreme thing is "Nano-Reef", a complete reef aquarium (the most demanding saltwater, allows you to have Corals) in 10 gallons or less. A few days of evaporation will screw up the chemical balance nuke one of those. Like I said, anal retentive and able to not blow it off. If you've never had an aquarium before, go ahead and do what you are going to do anyway, and post a thread with updates. View Quote I've had a small 20 gallon tank growing up and now have been running a 55 gallon freshwater tank for about 6 months. It's neat and I love having fish but it's been less of a hobby tank and more of a set it and forget it operation. With a 70 gallon filtration system on a 55 gallon freshwater tank I've only had to do a couple of water changes, everything has been spot on aside from having very hard water which does nothing more than limit a few of our fish options. So basically this tank has been so easy to operate it hasn't taught me anything about running an aquarium. When you guys talk about running an isolation tank are you talking about an entire second setup? I know for freshwater most guys that have to isolate a fish just hang a box on the inside of the tank and toss the fish in there. With most diseases that would seem to only do so much good as a lot of the shit spreads through the water and not just contact but when you're looking at losing a 4 dollar fish vs a 40+ dollar fish, much different story. When it comes to equipment is the aquarium market you get what you pay for or is there a lot of name brand overpriced shit out there? When it comes to tanks, filters, etc. are there brands to avoid and others to look for? And again, realistically, what am I looking at for a startup investment to get a 100 gallon tank going assuming everything is bought new? |
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A lot of good advice so far. Go slow but don't start with a small tank. A small SW tank is 100. I started with a 40 breeder and you run out of room way too fast. You have to extremely careful about every addition, every rock placement, and you have way less room for error. Mistakes in SW are more costly. Start easy and there's a big difference between a coral tank and a non coral tank. A non coral tank is what you want to start with. Live rock is awesome and I got some great stuff that had all sorts of life in it. You will see stuff pop out that very few people have ever seen. A solid RODI and mixing station is a must which is why you need to start low but go with as big of a tank as you can to start with. You have to be totally confident in your ability to maintain a system before you dip into corals. I know a few people that have done really well with FW that got into SW and got into a coral frenzy and crashed a tank. SW with corals is like operating a lab and one mistake can crash a whole tank. You need to quarantine and it's still never a guarantee. You're operating a chunk of the ocean in a microscopic tank when the natural ocean in what might as well be infinite gallons of what experiences die offs and crashes all on its own. I'd make the decision early on if you want to be a coral guy or a fish guy. Fish (and other tank critters) add a lot of load. If you want to do both you really need hundreds of gallons and where you have the time and income to devote to it. The internet is filled with thousands of stories of people who put thousands into a SW tank and ended with a crashed tank.
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I have a 75 gallon tank. Started a 29 gallon with fish, soft corals, and live rock in 2004. Upgraded to a 75 gallon in 2006. I've spent thousands on equipment, livestock, supplies, etc. I've lost fish and corals due to bad luck and ignorance over those years. The worst loss was a five year old yellow eye tang that died after a 25% water change, or the blue hamlet that ate the brand new dottyback and then decided to jump one night, or cardinal hawk who decided to rest on a pump intake and couldn't get away.
I've been out of the States for the past three years so my sister is taking care of my tank now. I believe we have six fish in there: a 13 year old clown, one yellow tail damsel, two or three green chromis, and a shrimp goby w/paired pistol shrimp. I'd like to add a few more smaller fish eventually. At this point I have so much time and money invested into the tank that I'll never be able to get rid of it. |
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Can you deal with a high maintenance girlfriend? Because a SW tank is a high maintenance girlfriend. They require significant amounts of time, attention, and money, but damn, they're pretty to look at!
The initial investment is only the most expensive part if you set it up right from the start. Buy once, cry once is absolutely a thing in the hobby. |
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I'll be setting up a 60 gallon FOWLR soon... Currently acquiring all the equipment I need!
It'll be a low bioload( few fish)..A CUC.. base and live rock, etc Not interested in corals, animonies, etc |
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try to design your build with an algae scrubber if you can, great way to reduce unwanted nutrients in the tank, mine is almost cruise control with just an algae scrubber, 120 lbs of rock 80lbs of sand in a 75 gallon tank and 20 gallon sump
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Quoted:
When you guys talk about running an isolation tank are you talking about an entire second setup? I know for freshwater most guys that have to isolate a fish just hang a box on the inside of the tank and toss the fish in there. With most diseases that would seem to only do so much good as a lot of the shit spreads through the water and not just contact but when you're looking at losing a 4 dollar fish vs a 40+ dollar fish, much different story. When it comes to equipment is the aquarium market you get what you pay for or is there a lot of name brand overpriced shit out there? When it comes to tanks, filters, etc. are there brands to avoid and others to look for? And again, realistically, what am I looking at for a startup investment to get a 100 gallon tank going assuming everything is bought new? View Quote -Isolation tank is to keep anything from being introduced into your main setup. It's not mandatory by any means. But using one can prevent a LOT of headache in the long run. It doesn't have to be large. Once again, not mandatory. -When it comes to equipment. There is a lot of crap out there. Stick to the name brand stuff and you'll be fine. Don't cheap out on your heater! Buy the nicest one you can. -A basic 100 gallon setup is probably going to set you back $2500.00 when all is said and done. That's for a pretty basic setup. In my opinion, and there are those who would disagree with me, start with a 29 gallon aquarium. Whole thing might cost you $500.00. That's the whole shooting match. A 100 gallon aquarium is going to stop being fun in very short order. Not just the start up costs but the stocking costs. And the cost to replace all of the fish and coral that you kill. Everybody melts an entire tank of fish at least once. You will also come to dread the work associated with maintaining such a large tank. It is, as many have echoed, a full time job. A 29 gallon will be enjoyable to mess around with and wont take over your life or put you into massive debt. Do some Google searching on 29 gallon marine tanks. They are an excellent platform to learn on. There are many species of fish that do really well in a 29, you just have to shop/stock smart. -Kreate |
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2 reef tanks. 1 is a 125 gal and 10 years old, the other is a 34 gallon at 7 years old. Reefcentral is your friend.
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id stick with freshwater , the salt stuff is so much more work and very costly , like 3 or 4 time more imho . Try some more challenging freshwater , like discus or brackish fish , try to breed them , i got more out of breeding discus and cory catfish it was lots of fun and i actually made money off it.
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2 things
Www. Bulkreefsupply.com And "nothing good happens fast in a reef tank" |
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