On the subject of concealed handgun licenses....

- The act of carrying a firearm privately does not inherently endanger anyone. It is no more dangerous than carrying a candy bar, as both are merely physical items. A firearm can be stored safely.
- A permit does not magically make all people who carry a firearm responsible! Not all people make the same choices in life.
- I can announce that I am carrying a firearm for the officers safety.
- I can raise my hands above my head for officer safety.
- I can follow all and any commands given for officer safety.
- I can allow the officer to remove my firearm for their safety.
- If someone is stabbing me with a knife in an attempt to kill me, why do I need a permit to defend myself or my family beyond my bare hands? Why do I need permission to live?
- If I use a concealed firearm in a wrongful manner, the court system will ultimately serve the punishment. (Is that not what the courts are there for? To decide between right and wrong actions after an alleged crime has been commited?)
- If I am allowed to keep a firearm at home safely, why am I not allowed to keep it on myself in public while still doing so privately?

I haven't even brought up Constitutional rights yet... Why do my gun rights end at my driveway, but my other constitional rights don't? Given that it's the 2nd, the SECOND Amendment... You'd think there was some importance there. (Regardless of how you interupt it, the 2nd amendment is clearly "gun" specific.)

- Remember, criminals don't follow any rules. A CCW does not seperate the two groups automatically. A CCW merely makes it easier to distingush what group you belong to after information has been requested or an action that requires it occurs.
- If a criminal is found with a firearm in public with or without a permit say during a traffic stop, the officer will still have time to investigate if the vehicle or firearm is stolen or if the subject has a criminal record.
- A background check is already required to purchase a firearm in the first place.
- Again, a permit is not going to stop a criminal from doing what they want.
- Now, while I agree they generally make people more educated about firearm safety/use, it goes back to the court system to serve judgement for right/wrongful actions. You can learn the easy way beforehand or the hard way afterwards.
- In the opposite regard, criminals don't care to educated on safety. A fair number of people are too stupid to own a gun in the first place. (ie. parents leaving out firearms in front of children unsecured while lacking total responsiblity)
- You don't need to be educated or trained in order to purchase a firearm, nor use one in your own home.

Can anyone name ONE thing that makes having a permit absolutely necessary?

One thing....

What benefit does it provide to society? What does it solve?

Privileges are much easier to revoke than rights

Government corruption.

Laws and pieces of paper make the easily scared and weak feel safe.

A "permit" gives them the "feels" that somehow a greater "authority" deemed you "capable" of carrying a weapon.

Because there are some people who cannot handle and/or dont deserve to be that free.

That's just how it is.

Its not a means to allow, its a means to deny.

Because guns are icky and scary!!

My state's carry laws were enacted to make it more difficult for law abiding citizens to defend themselves against gangs and criminals with political affiliations.

My CCW instructor said the state doesn't care if you carry a gun, they just want you to have to pay for it.

I'm proud to say I live in a state that does not require a permit.

What are you talking about. I don't need a permit.

You don't in West Virginia

I've watched as states began issuing "shall-issue" permits starting with FL in the early '90s and then TX and then many, many more.

A number of these states have moved on to a no permit required process, although I think they still usually offer permits for reciprocity purposes.

My conclusion is that the "shall-issue" approach has vastly increased freedom in this country. I understand purists like GAO opposed it on principle, but the evolution was:

"shall-issue" ---> permitless carry

Realistically permitless carry wasn't likely most places if "shall-issue" wasn't tried first.

OP makes some righteous points that I agree with.  Permits are about control---like all .dotgov.

Is this a troll post?

You should go on the road with that argument buddy. BEST statement of the TRUTH I have heard in30 yrs.

Gov corruption is also true, but, even a non corrupt gov. usually will take as many rights as you allow them to take, so that they can keep you safe....LOL, and keep themselves employed.

the bad guy can't get the permit because of his record.  when he is caught with the weapon concealed he goes to jail.  if he was about to commit a crime, society was protected.

Or Missouri

Already been said, money.

one thing
hmm



GOVERNMENT

I don't need one.  Constitutional concealed and open carry in AK 

cause the man said so.

Congregation's the other way, preacher.

I don't need a permit. Why haven't you taken up the cause of permitless carry with your state legislature?

Children it's always the children

Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large numbers.  They vote.  

If you wish to carry in several other states besides AZ, you need that AZ DPS card to allow you to do it.  

OP does still have a valid question, thus the need for nationwide reciprocity.  In light of court decisions that determined the police have no obligation to protect you, that leaves only one person who can do so.  That would be you, unless you sleep and shower with a trustworthy, armed contractor. 

Well written and on point.   

The idea of someone else removing your handgun from your holster has always struck me as incredibly dangerous.  Especially given the wide variety of operating systems available means that NOBODY can be familiar with all of them.

Seems best for everyone if the handgun stays in the holster, unless there is cause for an arrest and in that case the risk is worth it.

In answer to OP's question, the original purpose of permits and registration was to prevent "the wrong people" from having or carrying firearms.  "The wrong people" varied but they were generally minorities or recent immigrants or possibly people who were not members of the ruling elite at the time.

why should you have to show an ID to vote then?

I don't.

I got through three armed robberies without being hurt. I was lucky three times. If there's another one, I'll make my own luck.

I misunderstood the question.

It does weed out a bunch of assholes. The CCW population has done very well in terms of legal and proper acts. If you remove the need for the permit, you may see more improper shootings. That will be twisted around to blame responsible people, much like the press did with George Zimmerman, et al. The general public is not ready to argue against the press bias. It will take a few more years. While we gain ground in most of the country, we lose ground to psychotics in places like New York and California. Never underestimate their ability to lie and cheat in order to strip your rights.

The time is not yet right.

And they will carry it anyway if they want.

That's just how it is.

To trick you into turning your Right into a mere privilege which the issuing power can revoke and/or deny at their whim/discretion.

Permits generate revenue.

Permit don't mean squat without the badge. If you don't carry the badge, you ain't shit.

Maybe because there are ~20M illegals in our country? Just sayin...

Agreed! Marriage is should be up to the churches, and government has no business being involved with it.

The right to keep AND BEAR arms shall not be infringed.

Better arrested than dead. Just do it. Legal here, i follow the rules.  If not, I would do it anyway, it's your life.

Backdoor for registration and a lever to screw with people.

Preaching to the choir. The people on this site are not the ones you need to convince.

I'm OK from a Constitutional standpoint with requiring a permit for either concealed or open carry, but not both in the same jurisdiction.

I don't require one here, with that said, before constitutional carry was passed, in order to get a concealed permit you had to provide proof of training and pay the fee.

Proof of training doesn't bother me, I took a number of classes for my own improvement, the fee I accept even though I don't care for it.

lol

Posts in this thread prove otherwise.

There is no logic in any gun laws. Its all based on feels. When I first moved to TX, I started joking about how stupid the laws were. I could legally carry (a pistol) in my car without a permit. TX honored my VA permit, so I was good to carry concealed. But it was illegal to openly carry the same pistol. But perfectly legal to openly carry my AR. But it was illegal for me to carry a switchblade. Then when my VA permit expire, it was then illegal for me to carry the next day and TX said they don't trust me to carry until I take their training course and demonstrate my ability to shoot. 

Its gotten better, but fuck there are a lot of dumb laws on the books. 

A license/permit is what you get when the government steal's your'e rights away and sells them back to you.

you need the permit because the local government says so.

what prize did i won  ?