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Posted: 1/16/2017 6:23:46 PM EDT
[#1]
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The only people who support tariffs are morons, economic illiterates and people who want to hinder the economy. I'd like to believe that most here fall into the 2nd category. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He's right. Tariffs = safe space for shitty products. The only people who support tariffs are morons, economic illiterates and people who want to hinder the economy. I'd like to believe that most here fall into the 2nd category. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. |
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Posted: 1/16/2017 6:57:28 PM EDT
[#2]
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American vehicles are like American women. If I needed to pull a heavy trailer I'd get one  
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Posted: 1/16/2017 7:20:11 PM EDT
[#3]
I have to say I'm loving my gti , love everything about it .
interior styling and how it handles , very impressed with it & I,ve had my fair share of cars be it American Japanese or German . |
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Posted: 1/16/2017 8:47:12 PM EDT
[#4]
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My Mercedes is much better designed then my Ford. Perhaps if you do some research we won't need to give you a detailed explanation on why high performance vehicles typically require more maintenance then lower performing ones. Here's a hint though -- it's the same principle with high performance American cars. I'm going to disagree. BMW M3 vs. Corvette. |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 1:53:34 AM EDT
[#5]
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The only people who support tariffs are morons, economic illiterates and people who want to hinder the economy. I'd like to believe that most here fall into the 2nd category. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. You support allowing foreign countries to take advantage of us in trade deals, tariff our products without reprisal, and allow our jobs to flee overseas in the face of this. Basically you want the US to be the world's patsy because of a fantasy of FREE TRADE! that never existed. Sorry I hope I hurt your feelings. |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 2:40:08 AM EDT
[#6]
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That's because most BMWs you see in America where built in Spartanburg SC not Germany. They aren't imported till you are in the higher end cars, except the 3 series wagon those are still built in Germany. Same thing applies to other foreign cars manufactured in the US. It's a well known fact in the auto business that quality control goes to hell when the manufacturing is brought to the US. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Especially BMW. Broken Most Weeks Everyone that I know that has owned BMWs complains about the quality over time. Great new, shit for the long haul. The number of BMW courtesy cars running around places like Greenville and Atlanta is somewhat shocking. My brother had a friend that worked for one of the very big dealerships in ATL, and that guy jokingly (sort of) said that you should really buy two BMWs, so one will hopefully be working while the other is in the shop. That's because most BMWs you see in America where built in Spartanburg SC not Germany. They aren't imported till you are in the higher end cars, except the 3 series wagon those are still built in Germany. Same thing applies to other foreign cars manufactured in the US. It's a well known fact in the auto business that quality control goes to hell when the manufacturing is brought to the US. Really... 
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Posted: 1/17/2017 2:41:20 AM EDT
[#7]
Let's be honest with ourselves: the only American vehicles that even make sense in America are pickups, BOF SUVs, and muscle cars. Pretty much everything else is garbage that's outclassed by the Asian and European manufacturers.
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Posted: 1/17/2017 2:45:09 AM EDT
[#8]
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If you think that BMW diesels didn't cheat like VW, I have some bad news for you... 
Pro tip: They all cheat, as the EPA tests are easy for an ECU to detect, thus practically everything with an ECU has the ability to run a "defeat" cal automatically during testing as soon as it sees the proper parameters to determine if a test is taking place. VW is the only one to get "caught" recently so far. All passenger car diesels are being looked at thoroughly for this, although all the other manufacturers are denying it. I know some Cruze diesel owners tried to make the claim GM cheated in their diesels, and now Chrysler is getting the same treatment regarding the diesels in their Jeeps. If BMW did cheat on this car too it will be discovered and I will get to drive yet another car depreciation free when they are forced to buy it back. I only see it as a win for me. |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 2:48:19 AM EDT
[#9]
He's right, you know...
My 10 year old BMW 3 won't keep up with the newest American pony cars (or maybe even back then), but it's held up a lot better then the Americans over 10 years. |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 2:59:31 AM EDT
[#10]
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Interesting how American brands are only in the lead in American rankings. 
Here's the Swedish one for 2016. 1. Lexus 2. Subaru 3. Volvo 4. BMW 5. Honda 6. Toyota 7. Audi 8. Mercedes 9. Mazda 10. Mini 11. Citroën 12. Opel 13. Skoda 14. Ford Average 15. Kia 16. Peugeot 17. Volkswagen 18. Hyundai 19. Nissan 20. Renault 21. Dacia 22. Mitsubishi 23. Suzuki 24. Fiat 25. Seat subaru? SUBARU? rofl. if they were so reliable they wouldn't include an engine removal hood feature and be designed to have the motor on the ground in less than 2 hours. |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 3:05:42 AM EDT
[#11]
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He's right, you know... My 10 year old BMW 3 won't keep up with the newest American pony cars (or maybe even back then), but it's held up a lot better then the Americans over 10 years. Right, and that must be why your BMW's resale value is shit. |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 3:31:34 AM EDT
[#12]
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Right, and that must be why your BMW's resale value is shit. I dunno about that. I just looked up 10 year old BMW 335s for sale, and a 2007 BMW 335 is still worth more than my wifes 2011 Honda Crosstour EX-L. |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 5:35:01 AM EDT
[#13]
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The only people who support tariffs are morons, economic illiterates and people who want to hinder the economy. I'd like to believe that most here fall into the 2nd category. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. +1 |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 10:00:04 AM EDT
[#14]
guys come on...bmw bulit over 400k cars last year in just the one SC plant, over 1k cars a day. That one plant sent 70% of the cars FROM the US to overseas-there only about 200k car a year imported to the US from BMW overseas. So there is a 200k net gain of exports from the USA of BMW vehicles to other countries.
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Posted: 1/17/2017 10:02:59 AM EDT
[#15]
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He's right, you know... My 10 year old BMW 3 won't keep up with the newest American pony cars (or maybe even back then), but it's held up a lot better then the Americans over 10 years. Maybe you should race it in a different class? |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 10:16:48 AM EDT
[#16]
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I'm going to disagree. BMW M3 vs. Corvette. You can disagree all day long and still be wrong. Further, why are you comparing a Corvette to an M3 and not a low-performance Chevrolet? Clearly you've never seen what a Corvette costs to work on vs a Cruze. Further, an M3 doesn't require more maintenance then a Corvette. It's just more costly and most of that is due to the simple economics since the production numbers of the Vette are more than triple. They pump out ~30k vette's a year which is over double the production of all BMW M cars combined. Production of E90/E92 M3's was just shy of 50,000 total cars for the entire run worldwide. GM produced over 200,000 C6 Vettes. |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 12:03:50 PM EDT
[#17]
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You can disagree all day long and still be wrong. Further, why are you comparing a Corvette to an M3 and not a low-performance Chevrolet? Clearly you've never seen what a Corvette costs to work on vs a Cruze. Further, an M3 doesn't require more maintenance then a Corvette. It's just more costly and most of that is due to the simple economics since the production numbers of the Vette are more than triple. They pump out ~30k vette's a year which is over double the production of all BMW M cars combined. Production of E90/E92 M3's was just shy of 50,000 total cars for the entire run worldwide. GM produced over 200,000 C6 Vettes. Man you are making excuses. My friend needed a new valve body in a 328. The body was 1200 plus it needed valves and the whole transmission needed to be cracked open. Turned out to be a 4500 job. My old Saturn SC2 was 650. Corvettes could (almost) buy a brand new factory performance transmission rated to 700ft-lbs. You would need another $94. And I have a vette Z06. Window regulator with motor is $60. BMW, $200 or more. There is nothing I can find that wouldn't be cheaper and easier to fix on my car vs a comparable BMW of any type. Maybe tires. |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 12:09:33 PM EDT
[#18]
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Let's be honest with ourselves: the only American vehicles that even make sense in America are pickups, BOF SUVs, and muscle cars. Pretty much everything else is garbage that's outclassed by the Asian and European manufacturers. Uhhh....do you even Cadillac Bro? |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 12:59:11 PM EDT
[#19]
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Uhhh....do you even Cadillac Bro? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Let's be honest with ourselves: the only American vehicles that even make sense in America are pickups, BOF SUVs, and muscle cars. Pretty much everything else is garbage that's outclassed by the Asian and European manufacturers. Uhhh....do you even Cadillac Bro? Or large semis, heavy equipment and aircraft. I'd even give a shout out to the Buick series...yeah, not lots of pride of ownership, but talk about a car for the traveling salesman or middle class family. Low cost of ownership, reliable, comfortable. Twenty years post an nuclear war, and some Mad Max figure would be shoe-horning a 3800 into his ride. |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 6:45:16 PM EDT
[#20]
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Man you are making excuses. My friend needed a new valve body in a 328. The body was 1200 plus it needed valves and the whole transmission needed to be cracked open. Turned out to be a 4500 job. My old Saturn SC2 was 650. Corvettes could (almost) buy a brand new factory performance transmission rated to 700ft-lbs. You would need another $94. And I have a vette Z06. Window regulator with motor is $60. BMW, $200 or more. There is nothing I can find that wouldn't be cheaper and easier to fix on my car vs a comparable BMW of any type. Maybe tires. Cheaper parts doesn't equal more reliable. You seem to be creating a false argument. No one claimed American car parts weren't cheaper. That doesn't mean American cars are better or more reliable. |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 7:57:55 PM EDT
[#21]
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Cheaper parts doesn't equal more reliable. You seem to be creating a false argument. No one claimed American car parts weren't cheaper. That doesn't mean American cars are better or more reliable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Man you are making excuses. My friend needed a new valve body in a 328. The body was 1200 plus it needed valves and the whole transmission needed to be cracked open. Turned out to be a 4500 job. My old Saturn SC2 was 650. Corvettes could (almost) buy a brand new factory performance transmission rated to 700ft-lbs. You would need another $94. And I have a vette Z06. Window regulator with motor is $60. BMW, $200 or more. There is nothing I can find that wouldn't be cheaper and easier to fix on my car vs a comparable BMW of any type. Maybe tires. Cheaper parts doesn't equal more reliable. You seem to be creating a false argument. No one claimed American car parts weren't cheaper. That doesn't mean American cars are better or more reliable.
Sometimes it does! |
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Posted: 1/17/2017 11:52:49 PM EDT
[#22]
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Lol.. that's pretty funny coming from Germany  The Germans should start beating us in wars before they can start lecturing us. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 12:25:29 AM EDT
[#23]
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The Germans should start beating us in wars before they can start lecturing us. The Germans cannot fathom how a bunch of Rednecks got a huge one over on them. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 12:52:31 AM EDT
[#24]
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Correction, the Japanese and the Koreans make the best cars. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Say what you want about them but Germans and Japs make the best cars. FerFAL Correction, the Japanese and the Koreans make the best cars. Koreans are a negative. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 12:56:49 AM EDT
[#25]
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He must have forgotten about the whole Volkswagon scandal. That said, he might want to STFU. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 2:13:24 AM EDT
[#26]
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Or large semis, heavy equipment and aircraft. I'd even give a shout out to the Buick series...yeah, not lots of pride of ownership, but talk about a car for the traveling salesman or middle class family. Low cost of ownership, reliable, comfortable. Twenty years post an nuclear war, and some Mad Max figure would be shoe-horning a 3800 into his ride. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Let's be honest with ourselves: the only American vehicles that even make sense in America are pickups, BOF SUVs, and muscle cars. Pretty much everything else is garbage that's outclassed by the Asian and European manufacturers. Uhhh....do you even Cadillac Bro? Or large semis, heavy equipment and aircraft. I'd even give a shout out to the Buick series...yeah, not lots of pride of ownership, but talk about a car for the traveling salesman or middle class family. Low cost of ownership, reliable, comfortable. Twenty years post an nuclear war, and some Mad Max figure would be shoe-horning a 3800 into his ride. Yep Porsche couldn't even make a water cooled engine that wouldn't grenade itself for the longest time. BMW uses modules for everything instead of one EMM for everything. VW always have some electrical BS going on. I would say that ZF trans are solid, which they are, but american OEMs make better trans for cheaper. Literally, the only thing that Euros used to do better than the US was put in nicer interiors. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 4:12:54 AM EDT
[#27]
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He's right, you know... My 10 year old BMW 3 won't keep up with the newest American pony cars (or maybe even back then), but it's held up a lot better then the Americans over 10 years. How many miles on your odometer? Do you actually drive or do you baby the thing? |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 4:15:20 AM EDT
[#28]
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He must have forgotten about the whole Volkswagon scandal. That said, he might want to STFU. Ya that whole "cheating"...where mileage was awesome AND air quality still went up... The who "green" eco-nazism bullshit is a humanity hating death cult |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 4:35:43 AM EDT
[#29]
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Or large semis, heavy equipment and aircraft. I'd even give a shout out to the Buick series...yeah, not lots of pride of ownership, but talk about a car for the traveling salesman or middle class family. Low cost of ownership, reliable, comfortable. Twenty years post an nuclear war, and some Mad Max figure would be shoe-horning a 3800 into his ride. Only after changing the shitty lower intake manifold gaskets from plastic to metal backed, fixing the EGR stovepipe and tossing the plastic heater elbows to replace them with aluminum. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 4:39:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Germany should build a better military instead of relying on ours.
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Posted: 1/18/2017 6:01:52 AM EDT
[#31]
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I do realize it was an emissions issue. My point was, if the cars were that good to begin with, why cheat? The guy is spracking off about us building a better car. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You do realize the VW scandal is about emissions cheat that actually benefits the consumer, right? The cheat put in place violates the Federal emissions regulations by failing them but results in better fuel economy for the owners. To pass the emissions results in engine mapping that reduces fuel mileage..... I do realize it was an emissions issue. My point was, if the cars were that good to begin with, why cheat? The guy is spracking off about us building a better car.
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Posted: 1/18/2017 9:07:57 AM EDT
[#32]
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Cheaper parts doesn't equal more reliable. You seem to be creating a false argument. No one claimed American car parts weren't cheaper. That doesn't mean American cars are better or more reliable. Reliability is great. That's why everyone says that an out of warranty BMW is a good buy. 
BMW was beat in reliability by top car makers like Toyota, Kia, Mazda, Buick, and the exorbitantly expensive luxury brand Hyundai. What BMW and most German cars suffer is over complication of design. So you engine might run but the door that's giving you problems is a $900 fix because some nitwit put an entire ECU in for locks and windows. When you pay 4X the amount for parts you need that car to be 5x more reliable to make up for the difference, which none of the German Marques do. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 9:11:03 AM EDT
[#33]
so if the BMW is such shit, why is Trump worried about them-wouldn't the free market reflect their shitty quality and terrible reputation and expense...or is Trump and some of you doing us ALL a favor, and saving idiots that by bad cars, from themselves? Why Do we need protection from bad cars?
btw here is my shit box 
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Posted: 1/18/2017 9:11:43 AM EDT
[#34]
let the market decide-btw not one issue in 2 years but I keep hearing these "issues" are otw
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Posted: 1/18/2017 9:22:39 AM EDT
[#35]
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so if the BMW is such shit, why is Trump worried about them-wouldn't the free market reflect their shitty quality and terrible reputation and expense...or is Trump and some of you doing us ALL a favor, and saving idiots that by bad cars, from themselves? Why Do we need protection from bad cars? btw here is my shit box Looks cool, wonder if it runs..... |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:19:24 AM EDT
[#36]
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so if the BMW is such shit, why is Trump worried about them-wouldn't the free market reflect their shitty quality and terrible reputation and expense...or is Trump and some of you doing us ALL a favor, and saving idiots that by bad cars, from themselves? Why Do we need protection from bad cars? btw here is my shit box To quote PT Barnum, "there's a sucker born every minute" |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:24:48 AM EDT
[#37]
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The 'Volkswagen scandal' was just a scam on emissions, not quality. Fucking cars shouldn't even have government mandated emissions control system, as far as I'm concerned. If the consumer wants it, it should be an options package. Then let's see how many of these 'SAVE THE EARTH, enlightened progressive' types pay out of their own god damn pocket for it when it's not mandated. I hate clean air too. Let's all choke on smog, it's freedom-y. The only true freedom is where everyone destroys everything because they can. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:29:57 AM EDT
[#38]
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The Germans are real free market heroes: New German electric car subsidy excludes Tesla <font color="#252525">A car or other motor vehicle imported to Germany from outside the EU is normally subject to a 10% import duty and a 19% import value added tax</font> Aint that always the way with trade disputes? It's just two chickenfuckers sitting around saying the other guy is a pervert. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:33:34 AM EDT
[#39]
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The 'Volkswagen scandal' was just a scam on emissions, not quality. Fucking cars shouldn't even have government mandated emissions control system, as far as I'm concerned. If the consumer wants it, it should be an options package. Then let's see how many of these 'SAVE THE EARTH, enlightened progressive' types pay out of their own god damn pocket for it when it's not mandated. Agreed. 100% |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:33:50 AM EDT
[#40]
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I'm going to disagree. BMW M3 vs. Corvette. Not even the Corvette anymore, the Camaro is fully capable of taking on British Motor Works. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:34:55 AM EDT
[#41]
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Let's be honest with ourselves: the only American vehicles that even make sense in America are pickups, BOF SUVs, and muscle cars. Pretty much everything else is garbage that's outclassed by the Asian and European manufacturers. Most of the small Chevy cars are literally European and Asian built. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:40:00 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so if the BMW is such shit, why is Trump worried about them-wouldn't the free market reflect their shitty quality and terrible reputation and expense...or is Trump and some of you doing us ALL a favor, and saving idiots that by bad cars, from themselves? Why Do we need protection from bad cars? btw here is my shit box "Free Trade" is only going one way. Same with Japan. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:40:08 AM EDT
[#43]
German dude is right from a consumer point of view.
When I want to buys something I look for the best product I can afford within my budget. If someone starts to artificially fuck about with the prices of these good and forces a position where I have to buy an inferior product, but at an artificially maintained price, then I am going to be pissed. Trump needs to be careful with this import taxation stuff because it could backfire on him. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:42:16 AM EDT
[#44]
Meh. I'm guessing "reliability" isn't part of the German definition of "Better".
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:43:14 AM EDT
[#45]
Goering talked that same shit.
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:46:33 AM EDT
[#46]
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German dude is right from a consumer point of view. When I want to buys something I look for the best product I can afford within my budget. If someone starts to artificially fuck about with the prices of these good and forces a position where I have to buy an inferior product, but at an artificially maintained price, then I am going to be pissed. Trump needs to be careful with this import taxation stuff because it could backfire on him. "Reciprocal Import Taxation". You put a 19% tariff, you get a 19% tariff. Including all parts brought to the US. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 1:41:07 PM EDT
[#47]
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Not even the Corvette anymore, the Camaro is fully capable of taking on British Motor Works. That new camaro is amazing...the time it set on the Nurburgring WHICH IS IN GERMANY was totally amazing... some of you should check it out...it got under 7:30
https://youtu.be/FrFnrcpBj5k |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 8:01:41 AM EDT
[#48]
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Yep Porsche couldn't even make a water cooled engine that wouldn't grenade itself for the longest time. BMW uses modules for everything instead of one EMM for everything. VW always have some electrical BS going on. I would say that ZF trans are solid, which they are, but american OEMs make better trans for cheaper. , Literally, the only thing that Euros used to do better than the US was put in nicer interiors. Huh? The Mezger motor is basically their first attempt and still regarded as about the best motor they ever made. If it wasn't for emissions regulations they might still be making it. I'm assuming you're referring to the M96 they put in cheaper cars. That engine was designed from the beginning to be a low-cost alternative to the motors that proceeded it. Grenading it wasn't the notorious problem, rear-main seal and to a lesser extent IMS leaks were. Those rarely resulted in the engines "grenading." |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 8:14:56 AM EDT
[#49]
Note to Germany: You make lots of BMWs in South Carolina.
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Posted: 1/19/2017 8:20:10 AM EDT
[#50]
Nothing more unreliable and expensive to fix than a European car that's out of warranty.
You can get a new Impala that will go 300,000 miles when properly maintained and parts will always be cheap. Fuck them. |
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