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Posted: 12/5/2016 6:19:43 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is holding your connection together? Screw tension is all. A little vibration will fix that for you. At least tape it off so there is some (hopefully) good glue holding that nut tight. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mechanically reinforced with what? We may as well just break out the fucking flux, torch & sand paper-shit?!?!?! It's a fucking wire nut!!! Strip the conductors, line them up (lead the stranded a bit), use the properly sized/selected/rated wire nut, put on and twist until the conductors have a couple/few twists (this negates the need/desire for pre-twisting) and profit... ...NO pre-twisting or post-black tape needed!!!!!!!!! What is holding your connection together? Screw tension is all. A little vibration will fix that for you. At least tape it off so there is some (hopefully) good glue holding that nut tight. Screw tension, spring tension, whatever you want to call it. I call it good. Live action springs work just fine. Granted there are some shit brands/makes/models of wire nuts out there but I personally don't buy/use those... ...RE the vibration issue: use stak-on rings and screws, split-bolts, disconnects, lugs, or another type of connection if you don't want to use wire nuts. Be sure to protect and insulate the joint though. Also, understand that damn near all wire nuts in a house are NOT subject to vibration but those that are will handle it just fine. Live Action Springs  ...
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Posted: 12/5/2016 8:44:15 AM EDT
[#2]
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Because the wire nut manufacturer doesn't require pre-twisting? Show me where Ideal says that pre-twisting is required to install their product... ...oh, & see if it says that taping the connection serves any benefit whatsoever I never understood taping the connection. I hate taking those apart. Especially when they have 30 year old tape on them. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 10:09:57 AM EDT
[#3]
Biggest problem I see is the old push in connections on outlets. Over time they work themselves out of the connection . Thankfully the circuit usually is dead after that but I have seen cooked outlet connections many times.
I fucking hate the whole residential systems of shit plastic boxes without romex clamps and no room in the boxes. If I can do it I use the heavy fibre or metal boxes with mud rings, double boxes even on single outlets when chained. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 10:16:29 AM EDT
[#4]
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I was taught to twist down the wires tight enough with a set of lineman's pliers to make a good connection and then to twist on the wire nut. If you do it right the wire nut is basically there for insulation. Same here, and I twist the insulated wires below the wire nut together. My connections never come loose. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 10:36:06 AM EDT
[#5]
This is why I only use DC voltage and wood glue.
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Posted: 12/5/2016 11:12:26 AM EDT
[#6]
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You can install an arc fault breaker back at the panel. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 1:54:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Not quite the same thing, but not uncommon for nicer aquarium hoods to catch on fire. Upper mid level aquarium lights often use multiple cf tubes. Over time, the pin connectors on he tubes corrode slightly. The corrosion can partially inturupt the circuit, leading to heat. The heat cascades the problem, as the tubes tend to be held in place by those pins, the pins Ishtar sag in the tube, increasing heat. Ultimately arching between the pins and th base can cause a fire.
My my wife caught mine before she saw the flames, but plenty of smoke and nastiness. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 2:04:47 PM EDT
[#8]
1. use wire nut as listed
2. perform tug test on each conductor if you are an apprentice 3. save your tape for where it's needed |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 8:24:22 PM EDT
[#9]
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1. use wire nut as listed 2. perform tug test on each conductor 3. save your tape for where it's needed Fixed it for you. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 8:28:04 PM EDT
[#10]
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Because the wire nut manufacturer doesn't require pre-twisting? Show me where Ideal says that pre-twisting is required to install their product... ...oh, & see if it says that taping the connection serves any benefit whatsoever So you're a bare minimum electrician. Gotcha. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 4:11:25 AM EDT
[#11]
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So you're a bare minimum electrician. Gotcha. I have never in my life seen Wire Nut instructions that say to twist. I've seen MANY that say to NOT twist. For example: https://www.google.com/search?q="do+not+twist"+wire+nut+filetype%3Apdf I cannot for the life of me think of what twisting brings to the table other than opportunity for the wires to not perfectly align in length. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 4:19:32 AM EDT
[#12]
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So you're a bare minimum electrician. Gotcha. I'm a master electrician. I've been in the field for 20 years, however it's in the industrial sector. Only time I twist the wire is if it's single strand. Other then that the wire nut does the twisting itself. When I start to see 8 AWG I just use Kearneys for the connections. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 4:20:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have never in my life seen Wire Nut instructions that say to twist. I've seen MANY that say to NOT twist. For example: https://www.google.com/search?q="do+not+twist"+wire+nut+filetype%3Apdf I cannot for the life of me think of what twisting brings to the table other than opportunity for the wires to not perfectly align in length. I pretty much concur. I've only been in the field for 20 years, and most electricians I see, use the same technique as I do. However most of the people I know are in the union. 
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Posted: 12/6/2016 5:37:58 AM EDT
[#14]
I thought the instructions said to have 3 twists below the skirt of wire nut before you stop cranking on it. YMMV.
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Posted: 12/6/2016 6:08:44 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 12/6/2016 9:04:26 AM EDT
[#16]
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A properly executed twist on connection is pretty safe. There are over 100 million homes in the U.S. and pretty much 100% of them use twist on connectors. If even 1% of them failed on a annual basis that would be 1 million homes going up in flames every year. The problem is poorly trained people with these things. They are a menace. Yep; the problem is in the execution not the device (with the exception of motors etc) |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 9:14:31 AM EDT
[#17]
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Yes, you can certainly minimize the risk by doing that. A wire nut connection is about the worst connection permissible in general electrical wiring though. We can't use them on the railroad (signaling) because they are prone to failure. We have to crimp, or hard terminate all our connections. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I was taught to twist down the wires tight enough with a set of lineman's pliers to make a good connection and then to twist on the wire nut. If you do it right the wire nut is basically there for insulation. Yes, you can certainly minimize the risk by doing that. A wire nut connection is about the worst connection permissible in general electrical wiring though. We can't use them on the railroad (signaling) because they are prone to failure. We have to crimp, or hard terminate all our connections. No such thing as a wire nut in aviation either. The closest we have to a wire nut is called a "mushroom cap." It looks just like the name implies, except it's crimped on. The wago stuff looks almost like the burndy blocks that we use in aviation, but we still have to crimp a connector on to a wire going into a burndy block. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 9:16:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was taught to twist down the wires tight enough with a set of lineman's pliers to make a good connection and then to twist on the wire nut. If you do it right the wire nut is basically there for insulation. That's the way I was taught. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 9:16:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you're a bare minimum electrician. Gotcha. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Because the wire nut manufacturer doesn't require pre-twisting? Show me where Ideal says that pre-twisting is required to install their product... ...oh, & see if it says that taping the connection serves any benefit whatsoever So you're a bare minimum electrician. Gotcha. Quite the opposite there pal... |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 10:36:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No such thing as a wire nut in aviation either. The closest we have to a wire nut is called a "mushroom cap." It looks just like the name implies, except it's crimped on. The wago stuff looks almost like the burndy blocks that we use in aviation, but we still have to crimp a connector on to a wire going into a burndy block. Yeah, I wouldn't expect they would be used in any critical circuit. Speaking of crimping, we use "NicoPress" sleeves and special crimping tools if we have to do a splice. Nothing like the craptastic butt splice kits you get down at the hardware store. Then we have to go through an elaborate process of scotch coating and rubber taping and more scotch coat and tape over the splice. If we want to bring more than one set of conductors together at a common point, we have to bring them to a termination block and strap them together. I suspect you have to do something similar in aviation. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:03:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I wouldn't expect they would be used in any critical circuit. Speaking of crimping, we use "NicoPress" sleeves and special crimping tools if we have to do a splice. Nothing like the craptastic butt splice kits you get down at the hardware store. Then we have to go through an elaborate process of scotch coating and rubber taping and more scotch coat and tape over the splice. If we want to bring more than one set of conductors together at a common point, we have to bring them to a termination block and strap them together. I suspect you have to do something similar in aviation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No such thing as a wire nut in aviation either. The closest we have to a wire nut is called a "mushroom cap." It looks just like the name implies, except it's crimped on. The wago stuff looks almost like the burndy blocks that we use in aviation, but we still have to crimp a connector on to a wire going into a burndy block. Yeah, I wouldn't expect they would be used in any critical circuit. Speaking of crimping, we use "NicoPress" sleeves and special crimping tools if we have to do a splice. Nothing like the craptastic butt splice kits you get down at the hardware store. Then we have to go through an elaborate process of scotch coating and rubber taping and more scotch coat and tape over the splice. If we want to bring more than one set of conductors together at a common point, we have to bring them to a termination block and strap them together. I suspect you have to do something similar in aviation. We nicopress flight control cables. Our most common type of electrical connector is a "cannon plug." The contacts are gold plated pins and sockets, and the receptacles are the "plug." Outside those, we have burndy and terminal blocks, then ring terminals and terminal strips, and then finally butt splices that you have to environmentally protect with a special heat shrink tube that comes as part of the splice. The connector and splice type is dictated by the aircraft manufacturer, for instance, on an Airbus, we can butt splice any wire, but we have to denote exactly what wire, and where it is so Airbus can update the wiring diagram for that one particular aircraft to display the splice on the wire, but if it's a flight control critical wire, the splice is only good for one ferry flight (no passengers) back to a maintenance station where the entire wire run from connector to connector must be replaced. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:19:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We nicopress flight control cables. Our most common type of electrical connector is a "cannon plug." https://forum.sub-driver.com/filedata/fetch?id=100504&d=1291774279 The contacts are gold plated pins and sockets, and the receptacles are the "plug." Outside those, we have burndy and terminal blocks, then ring terminals and terminal strips, and then finally butt splices that you have to environmentally protect with a special heat shrink tube that comes as part of the splice. The connector and splice type is dictated by the aircraft manufacturer, for instance, on an Airbus, we can butt splice any wire, but we have to denote exactly what wire, and where it is so Airbus can update the wiring diagram for that one particular aircraft to display the splice on the wire, but if it's a flight control critical wire, the splice is only good for one ferry flight (no passengers) back to a maintenance station where the entire wire run from connector to connector must be replaced. Cool. How often do you have to megohm? |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:36:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool. How often do you have to megohm? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We nicopress flight control cables. Our most common type of electrical connector is a "cannon plug." https://forum.sub-driver.com/filedata/fetch?id=100504&d=1291774279 The contacts are gold plated pins and sockets, and the receptacles are the "plug." Outside those, we have burndy and terminal blocks, then ring terminals and terminal strips, and then finally butt splices that you have to environmentally protect with a special heat shrink tube that comes as part of the splice. The connector and splice type is dictated by the aircraft manufacturer, for instance, on an Airbus, we can butt splice any wire, but we have to denote exactly what wire, and where it is so Airbus can update the wiring diagram for that one particular aircraft to display the splice on the wire, but if it's a flight control critical wire, the splice is only good for one ferry flight (no passengers) back to a maintenance station where the entire wire run from connector to connector must be replaced. Cool. How often do you have to megohm? Next to never, our most common megohm use is to check out the windings of electric fuel pumps to make sure there is no breakdown in the insulation across phases. That's usually done on a time control item, but we also have to do it on install too. If I have an electrical issue where every component has been changed, and there's no resolution, I'll usually find it with a VOM, or a load light. If the problem is found, on a circuit, but it's one of those 200-300 ft wire runs, I'll break out the time domain reflectometer, and I can usually narrow it down to within a foot or so of the fault. I found an issue one time with a TDR where someone installed a floor panel, and ran a screw that was way to long, and right into a wire bundle. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:46:08 PM EDT
[#24]
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I'm a service electrician and a lot of trouble calls were due to a loose connection. Wire nuts can come loose over time, but a lot of the ones I've seen are from the installer not tightening them enough, or using the wrong size. Serious question IF the wires fit and they twist the wires tight and dont fall off are you good to go or do you need to follow those charts? |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:46:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Vibration is why you can't use them in railroad. Also why you don't use wirenuts for electric motors. Or solid wire for that matter. Split bolts or some sort of crimp work best is vibration prone installations Lol ok 90% of the electric motors in the plant I work at have wire nuts. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:49:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryWhat the fucking shit? 
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:59:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you're getting hot enough to solder, wouldn't you also be hot enough to desolder? ETA, then you may have a blob of energized crap hanging outside the plastic cap? I kind of like the idea make sure the nut is positioned to contain the solder if it melts. As it melts it solves the problem and and it shouldn't happen again. This thread is making me want to run through the house scanning the walls with the flir... |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 1:00:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a service electrician and a lot of trouble calls were due to a loose connection. Wire nuts can come loose over time, but a lot of the ones I've seen are from the installer not tightening them enough, or using the wrong size. Yep, wrong size is a big problem. I have seen this in my limited experience. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 1:47:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The company I work for has switched from wire nut to Wago connectors. Reduces incorrect installation by the assemblers a lot. using wago connectors putting some lights up in my shop stupid simple and even the light fixtures have them from the factory I really like them but they seem loose to me, guess thats just from using wire nuts for 20 years or better guessing they are good to go though 
ETA: the wago connectors connecting the ballast to the tube connector from the factory is the one that is "loose" to me its ultra thin wire... the connectors I used are good and solid after further reading here though slightly worried would be nothing to go back and cut them out and replace though |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 6:36:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a master electrician. I've been in the field for 20 years, however it's in the industrial sector. Only time I twist the wire is if it's single strand. Other then that the wire nut does the twisting itself. When I start to see 8 AWG I just use Kearneys for the connections. Yep |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 8:23:06 PM EDT
[#31]
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What the fucking shit? The wires get warm and things climb in there. They are always filled with lizards. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 8:31:08 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep Quote HistoryQuoted:
Originally Posted  By Jinxsters:
I'm a master electrician. I've been in the field for 20 years, however it's in the industrial sector. Only time I twist the wire is if it's single strand. Other then that the wire nut does the twisting itself. When I start to see 8 AWG I just use Kearneys for the connections. Yep What do you mean 'yep'? First you say that anyone that doesn't pre-twist wires before tossing on a nut is garbage and now you say that pre-twisting isn't always needed. What the fuck is it? Which way do you want the whole world to confirm to? FFS
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Posted: 12/6/2016 9:04:39 PM EDT
[#33]
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What the fucking shit? Mother fucking snakes on the mother fucking main |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 9:10:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
What the fucking shit? A snake that discovered two legs! 
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Posted: 12/7/2016 9:23:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you mean 'yep'? First you say that anyone that doesn't pre-twist wires before tossing on a nut is garbage and now you say that pre-twisting isn't always needed. What the fuck is it? Which way do you want the whole world to confirm to? FFS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Originally Posted By Jinxsters:
I'm a master electrician. I've been in the field for 20 years, however it's in the industrial sector. Only time I twist the wire is if it's single strand. Other then that the wire nut does the twisting itself. When I start to see 8 AWG I just use Kearneys for the connections. Yep What do you mean 'yep'? First you say that anyone that doesn't pre-twist wires before tossing on a nut is garbage and now you say that pre-twisting isn't always needed. What the fuck is it? Which way do you want the whole world to confirm to? FFS Pretwist hard wires, not multistrand. Was that hard? |
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Posted: 12/10/2016 6:38:12 AM EDT
[#36]
Had a problem yesterday that reminded me of this thread. Water heater breaker tripped Thursday night while I was at work. Came home, reset breaker. Flash of light from behind heater, breaker tripped again.
Pulled cover off junction box, wire connection had rubbed against inside of box to the point of opening the taped splice. Thank God the breaker worked. |
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Posted: 12/10/2016 7:25:21 AM EDT
[#37]
Thats how I was taught also. Not saying its right though.
On the use of lineman's pliers. I read somewhere that the damage ( referring to all the nicks ) the teeth in the pliers damages the cooper and can result in a higher resistance connection also. Any truth to that? |
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Posted: 12/10/2016 7:26:42 AM EDT
[#38]
You forgot bubble gum
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Posted: 12/10/2016 7:53:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats how I was taught also. Not saying its right though. On the use of lineman's pliers. I read somewhere that the damage ( referring to all the nicks ) the teeth in the pliers damages the cooper and can result in a higher resistance connection also. Any truth to that? I suppose in extreme cases it could reduce the mating surface areas and lead to a higher resistance connections. My main concern with nicks, especially gouges is that it is a potential point of failure, kind of like when you score a piece of glass, that is where it is going to break with a little pressure. |
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Posted: 12/10/2016 8:03:02 AM EDT
[#40]
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It never shows what the faulty connection looks like, so I 'm not sure that the intended audience will know what they are doing wrong. Not sure why they didn't show how they made a bad connection. |
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