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Posted: 12/2/2016 10:21:03 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 12/2/2016 10:21:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These guys have the best insight about present day China going:  Attached Fileo9eXi3RL8q4</iframe> Attached FileBcyYyyaPz84</iframe> Attached File9loDBwp5ST0</iframe> There is a load of good insight as to not just how but why. I really suggest watching some of these. Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/2/2016 10:41:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would you like to know more? I see what you did there.... |
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Posted: 12/2/2016 10:47:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... LOL you numbnuts, US Congress has recognized Taiwan as an independent entity for years now 1 China....the R.O.C hoped it would be Taipei not Beijing. The current Taiwanese govt. wants total seperation entirely which Beijing warns war over. The indigenous Taiwanese see themselves as NOT Han Chinese but the Nationalist dreamed of returning to China someday after defeating the CCP. |
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Posted: 12/2/2016 10:48:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh the butthurts over this is amusing. Why be mad at President-elect Trump for snubbing an oppressive communist country by communicating with a free and democratic one? Here's to hoping he pisses off Saudi Arabia too. |
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Posted: 12/2/2016 10:53:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote History
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Posted: 12/2/2016 10:59:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only skimmed the thread. I saw multiple tweets that said we sold nearly $2 bil worth of arms to Taiwan, just while Obama has been president. China doesn't recognize them as an actual country, but a rogue state that is part of China. So we sold arms to a state that China considers a rogue, belligerent state that is actually part of China. Somehow this phone call means war? I would think selling arms to them is more of a recognition of them as a sovereign nation, than talking to their leader (according to international law and treaties). We've talked with palestinian leaders, for peace talks, etc. Selling arms to them would be a defacto recognition of them as a legitimate government of an actual state, comparatively. Do I have this right? Quality and capability of weapon systems. They could care less about sales of M-4s and 81mm mortars but Aegis and THAAD would be on their throw a tantrum list. Beijing reps at a conference last week recently implied they would not be deterred by Trump or an assertive USA. |
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Posted: 12/2/2016 11:05:30 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm perfectly okay with this. Not that it's anything like the thread title portrays it.
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Posted: 12/2/2016 11:10:12 PM EDT
[#9]
China knows they have to have buyers for all their shitty walmart shirts.
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Posted: 12/2/2016 11:20:20 PM EDT
[#10]
The Chinese planned for this centuries ago. They might not be stronger than us now, but give them a few decades and we're fucked because they're great long term planners.
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Posted: 12/2/2016 11:21:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quality and capability of weapon systems. They could care less about sales of M-4s and 81mm mortars but Aegis and THAAD would be on their throw a tantrum list. Beijing reps at a conference last week recently implied they would not be deterred by Trump or an assertive USA. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Only skimmed the thread. I saw multiple tweets that said we sold nearly $2 bil worth of arms to Taiwan, just while Obama has been president. China doesn't recognize them as an actual country, but a rogue state that is part of China. So we sold arms to a state that China considers a rogue, belligerent state that is actually part of China. Somehow this phone call means war? I would think selling arms to them is more of a recognition of them as a sovereign nation, than talking to their leader (according to international law and treaties). We've talked with palestinian leaders, for peace talks, etc. Selling arms to them would be a defacto recognition of them as a legitimate government of an actual state, comparatively. Do I have this right? Quality and capability of weapon systems. They could care less about sales of M-4s and 81mm mortars but Aegis and THAAD would be on their throw a tantrum list. Beijing reps at a conference last week recently implied they would not be deterred by Trump or an assertive USA. Deterred from what? Bitching? Saber rattling? They have shit for power projection and they know it all too well. It's uncertain if they could even succeed in retaking Taiwan by force, assuming we stayed out of it. China is a facade, the illusion of power. |
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Posted: 12/2/2016 11:24:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Chinese planned for this centuries ago. They might not be stronger than us now, but give them a few decades and we're fucked because they're great long term planners. Sun Tzu was a smart SOB. Gotta give the ChiCOms credit for laying low and being so patient in their quest for world domination. 
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Posted: 12/2/2016 11:36:02 PM EDT
[#13]
More outrage over this than there was over normalizing relations with Cuba??? Hypocritical.
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Posted: 12/2/2016 11:45:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Deterred from what? Bitching? Saber rattling? They have shit for power projection and they know it all too well. It's uncertain if they could even succeed in retaking Taiwan by force, assuming we stayed out of it. China is a facade, the illusion of power. Are you up to date on their nuke sub improvements, anti-ship missiles and their power projection exercises in the Gobi desert? We have to cover threats in Europe, Latin America, MENA and South Asia on top of East Asia. They are not under similar security obligations.  http://freebeacon.com/national-security/asia-times-chinas-expanding-military-power-projection-capabilities/ BY: Bill Gertz
November 4, 2016 11:06 am "China’s military is developing ships, submarines, aircraft, intelligence systems and foreign bases in a bid to become a global military power, according to a forthcoming congressional China commission report. The late draft of the annual report by the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission contains a chapter on Beijing’s power projection development and warns that once fully developed, the weapons and forces could contribute to a regional conflict in places like the South China and East China Seas. “China is building military capabilities to deal with hostile air, surface, and subsurface operational environments in the ‘far seas,’” the report states, noting that the operations expand the focus beyond the two island chains off China’s eastern and southern coasts." |
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Posted: 12/2/2016 11:54:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, I'm not seeing in the BBC link where anything was mentioned about Trump recognizing the ROC's independence from PRC. It is inferred when Trump is quoted as congratulating the President of Taiwan on his recent election as President. If Taiwan isn't a sovereign nation they wouldn't have a President or elections. |
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Posted: 12/2/2016 11:54:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Being born in 1979 I missed what Carter pulled, but seriously Tiawan is obviously a nation of it's own.
I guess ChiCom pride gets in the way cause they wished they could finish what they started, but for all we know Taiwan may have a few screw driver nukes, if not a actual stash of at least tactical nukes, and a way to hit the mainland in a "Samsom" style option Israel is rumored to have as worse case, to take their enemies with them type of plan for all I know. Very least Tiawan has the electronics part of the screw driver nuke on lock down. If the ChiComs ever wanted to take the place by force just seems like they are 30 to 40 years late to me. I don't know maybe I am just missing something only being 37 going on 38? I know the Chicoms call them a runaway province, but we were taught they are a independent nation, and I know they got some teeth. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 12:11:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We should have never switched recognition nor given the ROC the boot from the Security Council and the UN in general. We should have either maintained recognition of the government in Taipei (formerly in Nanking) or recognized both in the way we do with respect to the two Koreas. Agreed. Adopting the "One China" policy was another disastrous carter mistake. So many former allies thrown under the bus by democrats. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 12:16:38 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Chinese planned for this centuries ago. They might not be stronger than us now, but give them a few decades and we're fucked because they're great long term planners. Not sure if serious. Individual Chinese are planners, their government is a bunch of corrupt fuckups. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 12:18:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Bunch a Snowfrakes
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Posted: 12/3/2016 12:39:34 AM EDT
[#20]
"Guess who NATO would side with.
Russia is tired of China's shit too, they'd probably try to join in on it too." This. Didn't Nostradaemus(sp) predict the Eagle and the Bear would join to defeat the Red Menace. Or something like that. Crawling back into my bottle now. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 5:18:10 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is inferred when Trump is quoted as congratulating the President of Taiwan on his recent election as President. If Taiwan isn't a sovereign nation they wouldn't have a President or elections. Her, not him. All I ever needed to know about the difference between the ROC and the PRC I learned from the Korean war. Fuck the PRC and I applaud Trump for doing this. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 5:55:16 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The winning continues. Reversing Jimmah's policy. He's now rolling back mistakes from the second worst President ever. Maybe he can get the Panama Canal back - then we can tax them for passing through... 
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Posted: 12/3/2016 5:58:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what are the shitcoms going to do. 1. attack the US. We cancel all debt. 2. nuke the US. They lose the number 1 market and all of the debt. 3. attack the US. they lose. Whey would they do any of those? Actually if they start acting up all Trump has to do is to call them & tell them to turn their ships around because they're not coming into port to unload - they would collapse. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 6:31:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sun Tzu was a smart SOB. Gotta give the ChiCOms credit for laying low and being so patient in their quest for world domination. If he was so great one would think the Chinese would not have failed so hard, so many times in their history to expand. Plus, looking at history post 1900... all they can do is saber rattle and kill their own people... more. Just now with more centralized government. I would say all sun tzu has given them is a false sense of capability. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 6:36:15 AM EDT
[#25]
DU is melting down at Trump giving zero fucks about the feelz of some authoritarian commies
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Posted: 12/3/2016 6:40:21 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DU is melting down at Trump giving zero fucks about the feelz of some authoritarian commies Lemme guess... the same ones who were probably singing FBHO's praises for unilaterally throwing open the gates to the communist country 90 miles south of the U.S... 
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Posted: 12/3/2016 6:48:28 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pearl Harbor says hello you SOBs! Wait... What? 
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Posted: 12/3/2016 6:49:29 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or, he didn't really exist and is an amalgamation of writings though a long time period by various authors. If he was so great one would think the Chinese would not have failed so hard, so many times in their history to expand. Plus, looking at history post 1900... all they can do is saber rattle and kill their own people... more. Just now with more centralized government. I would say all sun tzu has given them is a false sense of capability. Ol' Adolph had some of the best generals and equipment and he still lost because he didn't listen to his best leaders. The South, during the civil war, had the best leadership throughout the entire war until Sherman and Grant were advanced and they lost the war due to the disparity in their ability to supply their military with men and materiel. You can have the very best of everything and lose if the leaders do not listen to the best tacticians or your country cannot supply the needed supplies. It's nowhere near as simplistic as you seem to think. And before you get all pissy, I am glad that Trump did this. After what those fuckers did to us in Korea after we saved their asses in ww2, fuck the PRC!!!! |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 6:51:25 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bit of a misleading headline. All he did was speak with their President on the phone for a few minutes. Apparently that's a big no-no in the swamp. This. jeezes.... |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 6:52:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only skimmed the thread. I saw multiple tweets that said we sold nearly $2 bil worth of arms to Taiwan, just while Obama has been president. China doesn't recognize them as an actual country, but a rogue state that is part of China. So we sold arms to a state that China considers a rogue, belligerent state that is actually part of China. Somehow this phone call means war? I would think selling arms to them is more of a recognition of them as a sovereign nation, than talking to their leader (according to international law and treaties). We've talked with palestinian leaders, for peace talks, etc. Selling arms to them would be a defacto recognition of them as a legitimate government of an actual state, comparatively. Do I have this right? Yes. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 7:09:11 AM EDT
[#31]
Good, I need an opportunity to get in with a good pmc
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Posted: 12/3/2016 7:18:10 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And guess which administration did that? Here's a hint: http://www.skibane.com/JimmyCarter.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
breaking with US policy set in 1979 when formal relations were cut. And guess which administration did that? Here's a hint: http://www.skibane.com/JimmyCarter.jpg |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 9:20:25 AM EDT
[#33]
Why shouldnt we back a Democracy over a tyrannical commie state? I havnt forgotten them running over students with tanks.
The commies can go "F" themselves. They couldnt take that Island even if we didnt help. They have zero experience with modern warfare. Thats none! I love when people remind how they have like 1.7 billion people. So what? How many are in the armed forces? How many are in decent units, its still mostly a peasant army. And people cant run across water anyway. We've catered to this bunch way to long, like a bunch of pussies. If there is a war its because of the pussies before Trump. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 9:24:26 AM EDT
[#34]
This is a good thing. It is the primary shot to fight the growing ChiCom hegemony in the region. The claims on Taiwan are just as weak as the claims on the Spratleys. The thing is, we can't push them back from the Spratleys until we show the world that they CAN be backed down, and Taiwan is the vehicle for that.
With China building bases on the Spratleys, claiming Dominion over basically all the water routes and saber rattling, a direct approach would fail. Taiwan, being a populous and popular island, that China has been threatening for 60 years, forcing the Chinese to lose face by making them shit or get off the pot, will put them in a weaker position regarding their claims on the Spratleys. With Ameican leadership, a weakened China and many frustrated nations in the South China Sea (and beyond), China may be more easily forced off the claims on the Spratleys and have to dismantle their bases. If something is not done VERY soon about the situation, China could become an unstoppable mess, without massive and potentially nuclear conflict. Taiwan is the tool being used to unmask China. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 9:27:54 AM EDT
[#35]
Fuck the Chicoms. About time we had a president who doesn't kowtow to the sawed off little fucks
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Posted: 12/3/2016 9:28:26 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pearl Harbor says hello you SOBs!
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Posted: 12/3/2016 9:35:13 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38191711 Shit could get exciting! Now is a good time to join the service, big war means big opportunities for advancement!  The British have a toast, "To a long and bloody war," implying high casualties accompanied by promotions. I hope it doesn't come to this. BTW, China is no longer the largest holder of US debt: Japan is. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 9:39:53 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Russia and China nevertheless cooperate in many respects, including in Syria and in their support for Iran, and they have common interests including their opposition to the U.S. Putin is just playing Trump and the more gullible and foolish elements of the American Right that support him. The idea that he likes us or Trump and will be friendly is quite foolish. He fooled Bush in a similar fashion, right before invading our ally, Georgia, after which he dropped such pretenses. This. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 10:57:17 AM EDT
[#39]
Taiwan is our friend. Trump is is being friendly to Taiwan. It isn't complicated.
Sometimes people are offended when you do the right thing. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 10:59:59 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh the butthurts over this is amusing. Why be mad at President-elect Trump for snubbing an oppressive communist country by communicating with a free and democratic one? Here's to hoping he pisses off Saudi Arabia too. China will do exactly jack and shit. We opened relations with Cuba, who have nothing to offer us. Taiwan is pure, concentrated technological and economic productivity. We do business with them, China does business with them. Time to end the charade. Shit or get off the pot. Your move, Beijing. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 11:00:41 AM EDT
[#41]
MTGA
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Posted: 12/3/2016 11:06:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bit of a misleading headline. All he did was speak with their President on the phone for a few minutes. Apparently that's a big no-no in the swamp. The foamers in the media are contriving any excuse to keep their sjw followers whipped up into a frenzy. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 11:26:14 AM EDT
[#43]
Simply amazing what conclusions morans can conclude by the act of answering a phone call.
Derp is the order if the day |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 11:32:28 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only skimmed the thread. I saw multiple tweets that said we sold nearly $2 bil worth of arms to Taiwan, just while Obama has been president. China doesn't recognize them as an actual country, but a rogue state that is part of China. So we sold arms to a state that China considers a rogue, belligerent state that is actually part of China. Somehow this phone call means war? I would think selling arms to them is more of a recognition of them as a sovereign nation, than talking to their leader (according to international law and treaties). We've talked with palestinian leaders, for peace talks, etc. Selling arms to them would be a defacto recognition of them as a legitimate government of an actual state, comparatively. Do I have this right? Pretty much. As some of you may recall, I've hosted a number of Taiwanese military cadets during their stay here in the US for college and military training. I've seen some return for [US] OBC, flight training, Ranger School, et cetera. Some of my own classmates and contemporaries have been here in the US as military attachés, flight instructors, etc. For my friend who returned for Ranger School, I was able to make it down to Benning for his graduation ceremony; short notice, but I made it; with a 10% chance of making it through without a recycle, I wasn't expecting that call on that day. But, God forbid we say that Taiwan is an independent country. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 11:37:25 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... LOL you numbnuts, US Congress has recognized Taiwan as an independent entity for years now No. That is not really the case. Taiwanese military officers are not allowed to wear their Taiwanese uniforms when they are here in the US. I don't understand all of the machinations to appease PROC on this matter, but one of them is that arms sale are somehow ok, but, somehow, words and clothing are not. I don't understand the culture, never have. But it is what it is. When my friend graduated from IOBC, he had to wear a suit an tie - everyone else was in Class As, and there he was in civvies ... and he was the honor grad, too. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 11:41:56 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 12/3/2016 11:45:49 AM EDT
[#47]
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/12/03/china-trump-taiwan-president-call-small-trick/94880394/ China lodges protest today
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Posted: 12/3/2016 11:54:59 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Guess who NATO would side with. Russia is tired of China's shit too, they'd probably try to join in on it too." This. Didn't Nostradaemus(sp) predict the Eagle and the Bear would join to defeat the Red Menace. Or something like that. Crawling back into my bottle now. Russia is tired of China's shit? Where and what are you talking about? Tired of a $400 billion gas deal,tired of new arms sales,tired of joint training in the SCS? Tired of China propping up what remains of any economy in the far east? Cooperating in Syria and Iran,both trying to woo Turkey? Look at Russia's distribution of military forces: they aren't poised to protect Vladivostok. I have no idea where you guys get some of this stuff. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 12:26:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/12/03/china-trump-taiwan-president-call-small-trick/94880394/ China lodges protest today Meh. It's like some guy complaining because you spoke with this ex-wife. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 12:35:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or, he didn't really exist and is an amalgamation of writings though a long time period by various authors. If he was so great one would think the Chinese would not have failed so hard, so many times in their history to expand. Plus, looking at history post 1900... all they can do is saber rattle and kill their own people... more. Just now with more centralized government. I would say all sun tzu has given them is a false sense of capability. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sun Tzu was a smart SOB. Gotta give the ChiCOms credit for laying low and being so patient in their quest for world domination. If he was so great one would think the Chinese would not have failed so hard, so many times in their history to expand. Plus, looking at history post 1900... all they can do is saber rattle and kill their own people... more. Just now with more centralized government. I would say all sun tzu has given them is a false sense of capability. One of us need a meter re-calibration.
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