An unrepentant heathen finds God: Subnet Goes To Church. Warning: Long read. Many paragraphs. - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - An unrepentant heathen finds God: Subnet Goes To Church. Warning: Long read. Many paragraphs. (Page 2 of 6)

Posted: 10/25/2016 6:52:11 AM EDT

[#1]

Great post, made my morning. I am a strong believer but I am always curious how people see us.

To me it is very simple: "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God".

Posted: 10/25/2016 6:52:42 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Now come back to Ohio and teach me how to shoot! 10 cases of Yuengling will be yours

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The key, is to shoot somebody else's ammo. Helps with accuracy.

Posted: 10/25/2016 6:53:37 AM EDT

[#3]

As a non christian, I have no problems going to church if asked, as long as the preacher is a man of god.

When I visited my grandparents in DeKalb and Cherokee county Alabama, I went to church. I enjoyed it immensely. A preacher who really believes is a sight to see.

I prefer Methodist preachers over most others, for some reason they really can preach.

Good read Sub, thanks for taking the time to post it.

Posted: 10/25/2016 6:58:12 AM EDT

[#4]

Interested to read more, Sub. (Side note, You have officially been to church the same number of times I have in the last year.

)

Posted: 10/25/2016 6:59:03 AM EDT

[#5]

Let me ask you Sub, having been in Texas for a few months, do you feel like your perspective of the world has changed any?

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:02:57 AM EDT

[#6]

Interesting read Subnet.

Being the son of an evangelical Baptist minister, I understand what you are talking about in regards to sunday best clothes and other various traditions that just didnt make sense to me.

I struggled with a lot of it growing up. I preferred things make sense. I wanted logical answers. And for now I'm talking about (stupid?) simple things like why do we sing two songs have the service and sing one more song? Why is there bible study on Wednesday? Why is church on Sunday at 10am and 6?

I believe in God although I haven't been to church because I WANTED to go in dozens of years.

Anyway... the point I'm trying to make is one day the father of a family came to church. He arrived on his Harley and wore all his Harley gear. I remember looking at him sitting in church thinking "that man is a SINNER!" Look at how he dresses!

My dad never taught me or anyone else that if you dress up poorly and go to church that you should be looked down upon, but that was the net effect of trying to be the best dressed person every weekend for Sunday.

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:06:39 AM EDT

[#7]

That was a good read Sub, thanks for taking the time to write it all out and not just give a shortcut version.

I've been aware of your beliefs/non-beliefs and always found you to not be obnoxious about it. In fact, you've always been

respectful of other's beliefs and it's appreciated. So when I saw this thread, I looked forward to reading what you had to say about going to Church and I wasn't disappointed. Your opinions and observations come from a honest viewpoint and it's refreshing. Thank you.

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:07:11 AM EDT

[#8]

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thanks for posting

well worth the read...........

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This! And congratulations to both on having such a wonderful and rewarding visit!

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:10:22 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Let me ask you Sub, having been in Texas for a few months, do you feel like your perspective of the world has changed any?

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Big time. I actually talked about it at length with O_P.

In short: People who live here are SUPER nice to you. And it's contagious. It's so contagious, that you find yourself acting exactly like them just to fit in, so that they don't call you a dirty Yankee. And in so doing, you find that you're actually being super nice to complete strangers.

The whole thing is pretty insidious. You're some devious fuckers, like that. Being all nice and shit.

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:19:46 AM EDT

[#10]

Amazing write up Sub. I'm glad O_P asked you to church and even happier that you attended. And thank you for having an open mind. It sounds like you were raised proper (kinda, not sure if you're a Yankee or not

).

This is by no means an attack on members here, although I am sure some will take it as so, but just as a simple observation in a page and a half, it surprises me the number of people in America that do not go to church or believe. Again, this is simply an observation based on one page of replies of arfcom. The ones that jumped out to me is the "I now have more time on the weekends" and the I don't go bc of "personal baggage". Not gonna preach here, just gonna ask everyone to stop one day, maybe on a lazy afternoon, and with this thread and the next one in mind, think about God. Not religion and all the division in it. Sheesh, that is a mess IMO. But consider stepping outside the norm for you and go one Sunday. Dress up like the member who recently had a brag thread about how good he looked in a suit, post your own brag thread, and then check out a local church with an open mind. It really will make a difference in your life, although I can almost guarantee that it won't be immediately. I grew up in a church and struggled with attendance once I stepped out on my own. The excuses ranged from hungover to too busy to working to the GF at the time would get down right furious that I would go. I've moved a lot over the years and finally got back into going. While deployed I would still make time to listen to the chaplain, while working on the ambulance or FD I would go anyways and have the radio with me, super secret, alien whispering earbud in. Now I drive an hour every Sunday one way because the pastor is just awesome. Anyways, give it a try. It has never hurt anyone to go (Sub didn't burn) with an open mind and just might do you and your family some good.

And O_P, if I ever get out your way I wouldn't mind attending a service. And some tutelage

ETA...raised half proper. You admitted to be a Yank above.

Great to hear that the kindness is contagious!

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:20:46 AM EDT

[#11]

On that last post of mine, I really do mean it.Texans are (as a rule and mostly in person) nice as hell. They really are, as a group, over the top just...nice. It's so pervasive, that you end up being every bit as nice, just to fit in. It's a cultural thing that just sort of creeps into you.

I'm not kidding either, it's just about the friendliest state there is.

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:21:03 AM EDT

[#12]

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Good post Sub.

I will be praying that the Lord will draw you unto Himself.

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Me too.....

Great read. You are a good honest man Subnet.

The American Christian Church Incorporated,All Rights Reserved is not THE Church. Know Jesus-Know God. No Jesus-No God.

Jesus doesn't know the American Christian Church Incorporated, All Rights Reserved.....and most of them don't know Him either. There are some in the ACCI, All Rights Reserved who know Jesus.....O_P sounds like one but on the whole.....

OP are closer than you think to the real Church and the Kingdom of Heaven.

Long edit....

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:25:35 AM EDT

[#13]

A couple of thoughts. In full disclosure I am a Christian.

Faith is just that faith and you when you meet someone like Old_Painless (I never have but grew up in the church, I am a preachers kid, I know the type) you can't argue with an experience that is completely real to them.

If everyone lived as Christ taught the world would be a better place regardless of what your view on God is.

There are plenty of people who will chime in with stories about how bitter they are about the church and blah blah blah. That is not my experience at all and I have been to a lot of churches. If that is your experience you need to find someplace else and more importantly focus on a perfect God not flawed people.

Sub, I appreciate your willingness to participate in something that is really important to your friend. Life, real life, is about taking the time to experience things and even more so with the people we love and respect. If you can do it with an open mind even if you can't wrap your brain around it completely, it can be very meaningful on a human level even if it isn't on a spiritual level for you.

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:26:52 AM EDT

[#14]

Fun read. Look forward to the rest. Thanks.

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:32:02 AM EDT

[#15]

Good read...................Don is a good man, and I respect him very much. And I suspect, although you might not know it Subnet, you are closer than you think to God

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:33:59 AM EDT

[#16]

Good read, thanks for posting. Always noted the quality of your writing, even on the more trivial posts.

As for the church thing, always leave that door cracked, don't ever let it close completely. You never know what direction you might be led.

Welcome to Texas

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:35:41 AM EDT

[#17]

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Nice write up. I'm not surprised to hear that O_P is just as great in person as on the internet. I'm just as atheist as you are, maybe a bit more obnoxious about it, but I'd go to church with O_P any time. If all Christians were as patient, kind, and understanding they might not be losing members as fast as they are.

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It becomes tiresome defending your faith everyday, to the point of getting worn to the bone. I imagine to less than patient believers, lashing out, and becoming bitter about their faith being mocked, attacked, and their intelligence questioned is just a human response. It would be no different than defending your stance on the second amendment, in a room full of liberals, day in and day out.

Sub, I'm glad OP got you to attend what he holds dear in his heart. I hope it caused a spark.

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:36:23 AM EDT

[#18]

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I don't either.

But I do care about people. And as sure as I'm sitting here, I really believe with all of my heart, that if what I witnessed last Sunday was the norm nationwide, we'd be a better country. I mean it, too. As a total unrepentant, heathen, atheist, etc. Not kidding. I don't believe any of it, but I really wish most of the country did.

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I dont particularly care about any religion or beliefs, to each his own. I have seen pure evil and the joy of just being alive. I know there is something bigger than us that got this world going. I hope it keeps going that way and i try to do my part.

I don't either.

But I do care about people. And as sure as I'm sitting here, I really believe with all of my heart, that if what I witnessed last Sunday was the norm nationwide, we'd be a better country. I mean it, too. As a total unrepentant, heathen, atheist, etc. Not kidding. I don't believe any of it, but I really wish most of the country did.

Great story and thanks for sharing. I can see the mustard seed inside you, and think you may see the light again someday

. As for the quotes in red, you are correct. There really is power in the name of Jesus...

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:37:01 AM EDT

[#19]

I was raised a Lutheran (sunday school, catachysm, the whole routine) and can understand the "sunday best" mentality. How is gawd supposed to take you seriously if you can't even wear a tie and slacks?? Jesus!

Anywho, glad you enjoyed your time in Texas. The people are generally fantastic. Too nice almost...

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:40:28 AM EDT

[#20]

Great post. You really need to write books. You have a unique writing style that keeps it interesting and paints a solid picture. I'm glad you got to spend some quality time with OP. It sounds like you needed it.

I have one question for you and fully realize you may choose not to answer it. I get that you don't believe in God. But where do you think everything came from? If we go back in the argument as far as we can and let's say two atoms collided (or stars, or whatever else you want to collide and commit to thinking got this whole universe/life thing started) my question is whatever those two things were, where did they come from? I won't accept "they were just always there" as a legitimate answer.

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:48:24 AM EDT

[#21]

Wow.

Touching.

O_P is better, more compassionate, more empathetic and more eloquent than me

Thank you OP for making me feel like a giant turd.

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:52:33 AM EDT

[#22]

Glad you enjoyed your trip.
As far as the religious thing, I grew up raised and made to go to church, in the Assembly of God.
I still remember a lot of the bs that was put out in those days (I'm 52), today anyone preaching some of the stuff they were trying to sell would be called out in a heartbeat by gen discussion.
I remember the great Oral Roberts was gonna be struck down by God if he didn't raise a certain of money in a specific time period.
I remember the Great Jimmy Swaggart crying on tv cause he liked to eat hooker pussy.
And who can forget the fabulous Jim and Tammie Faye Bakker.

I am not anti faith, actually the opposite, but I gave up the church years ago, religion of any sort is a faith based belief.
Some are easier to swallow than others, but everything has to be looked at with some skepticism even if you are a faith based believer.

Thanks for sharing your story, as I have never expressed publicly how I feel until now.
TLDR:
A lot of false prophets and shitty people have made some believers become skeptics.

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:57:57 AM EDT

[#23]

From a God fearing Heathen, to a Unrepentant Heathen™ .....

I salute you sir

Posted: 10/25/2016 7:59:00 AM EDT

[#24]

Great post. I always wanted to go to Church with ETH. He was a former Catholic converted to (IIRC) Church of Christ. Fascinating guy to discuss religion with and I would have loved to see him in his element. I've been to different Baptist services, some meh, some great. I have no doubt O_P's church and his teaching in particular are terrific. And I say that as a devout RC.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:10:06 AM EDT

[#25]

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But I do care about people. And as sure as I'm sitting here, I really believe with all of my heart, that if what I witnessed last Sunday was the norm nationwide, we'd be a better country. I mean it, too. As a total unrepentant, heathen, atheist, etc. Not kidding. I don't believe any of it, but I really wish most of the country did.

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But I do care about people. And as sure as I'm sitting here, I really believe with all of my heart, that if what I witnessed last Sunday was the norm nationwide, we'd be a better country. I mean it, too. As a total unrepentant, heathen, atheist, etc. Not kidding. I don't believe any of it, but I really wish most of the country did.

I have a theory that one of the things that helped make this country what it is (or was) is the protestant tradition of finding things out for yourself. They read the bible for themselves, talk about it at length, dissect it's meaning to find the truth. Apply that mindset to any other task and you have a guaranteed winner. As a nation we are now in the process of supplanting that with political reliability which is turning us into just another banana republic.

You realize that by inviting you to church, O_P was doing you, according to his beliefs, the biggest favor you can possibly do for someone? He is living that Spurgeon quote in front of your eyes, for your benefit.

Also, I think somebody just heard the Word of God and just doesn't know it yet.

The funny thing about it is that once you hear it you can't un-hear it. It keeps ringing in your ears. It already moved you to write this post.

Here is one of the few biblical quotes I can remember:

Mark 4:30-2

And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth: But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

The appropriate question to ask at this point is that if you don't believe in God, then what do you believe? Is it better?

Oh and thanks for writing this, it reminded me to pay more attention to this stuff. I am not particularly religious but I know that I don't have anything better to believe in.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:15:19 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Great post. You really need to write books. You have a unique writing style that keeps it interesting and paints a solid picture. I'm glad you got to spend some quality time with OP. It sounds like you needed it.

I have one question for you and fully realize you may choose not to answer it. I get that you don't believe in God. But where do you think everything came from? If we go back in the argument as far as we can and let's say two atoms collided (or stars, or whatever else you want to collide and commit to thinking got this whole universe/life thing started) my question is whatever those two things were, where did they come from? I won't accept "they were just always there" as a legitimate answer.

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I'm going to take my science hat off for a minute, and entertain you with a new and novel idea that you mind find uncomfortable:

"I don't know".

That's a hard one, too. I hate not knowing things. But on the other hand, I simultaneously enjoy the process of discovery and inquiry.

Truth be told, I can partially answer some of your questions. But in so doing, you and I are going to quickly reach the limit of our combined knowledge. And when that happens, you and I are going to be left with quite a conundrum. The two of us are going to have a gap in our knowledge. You're going to satisfy that knowledge gap with God as a placeholder, and I'm going to say "You know...I just don't know. Yet. If ever". You're going to be satisfied with your answer, and I'm going to be left a bit befuddled until I, or (more likely) someone a hell of a lot smarter than me fills that knowledge gap in, just a little bit more.

In short: I have no idea.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:16:30 AM EDT

[#27]

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...The excuses ranged from hungover to too busy to working to the GF at the time would get down right furious that I would go...

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I'm not sure if "I'm just not interested" can really be described as "an excuse".

Religion and churches certainly have their benefits. They create a sense of community, a community with a shared ideology based on mutual support as a binding and defining factor.

Humans operate at their finest in a strong community. I just happen to believe that you can achieve the same benefits through any shared positive ideology, even if that ends up being a community of Bronies. I consider it to be a function of humanity, not some greater power.

None of which is a reflection on whether or not a greater power exists. I have no problem with that concept, I just doubt that Jesus is really interested in peering down and judging me for whacking off to midget porn.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:20:10 AM EDT

[#28]

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But at the same time, I'm NOT a libertine. And there's a part of me that feels like we've really lowered the bar too far. I don't want to fix anything that bugs me through the force of law, but I'd sure like it if we collectively decided to just be a-okay,

If you're at a funeral - please for the love of God, don't show up in shorts and flip flops. I totally get that you're just as full of sorrow as I am, no matter what you're wearing. I totally get that that strictly speaking, the clothes you're wearing don't actually reflect the real sorrow you feel. Got it. Totally get it. But for the love of God, please wear a suit. Just do it. Please? And honestly, please spend a couple few dollars to make sure it fits. I swear to God, your tailor wants it to look good on you. He really does. Promise.

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Well said, and worth quoting.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:20:31 AM EDT

[#29]

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I'm going to take my science hat off for a minute, and entertain you with a new and novel idea that you mind find uncomfortable:

"I don't know".

That's a hard one, too. I hate not knowing things. But on the other hand, I simultaneously enjoy the process of discovery and inquiry.

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Oh gosh no, you need to love not knowing. What you should never be, however, is content with not knowing.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:30:16 AM EDT

[#30]

Great read....As someone who has grown up in the church and has been an active member for all of my adult life, I am starting to struggle with this as well. I am flat out just not believing anymore ( cue journey . The other day I saw this meme, as stupid as it is since its a meme and the internet it made me think hard.

So here is the meme, and any time I have sought clarification or a real response from my church leader ship I just get some broad " its all a part of the plan" non answer. Our god is suppose to be omnipresent , all knowing, loving, caring etc. I realize that he grants us free will but what about those in the picture they have literally 0 control over the situations they were born into, starving and suffering. I don't get what part of any plan that is suppose to fit into, its not a logical argument and makes no sense. The same goes for kids here that are abused to death or literally tortured by piece of shit parents or their junkie friends. Not seeing where this fits in with any plan or how a god that is suppose to be loving/caring omnipresent etc. would let these things go on...

Not trying to hijack , more of a rant/ vent than anything but as someone like you who grew up in the church and has even been a very active member of the church I'm just not buying it anymore. The more fucked up our world is becoming the less I am believing.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:33:01 AM EDT

[#31]

I am somewhat in the same boat as you.

Raised in the church, went to Christian schools until 7th grade, no bad experiences........

I want to believe and ind myself talking to God but I have been turned off by he fake, lying, piers of crap that hijacked religion for personal and political game.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:35:37 AM EDT

[#32]

Great post and looking forward to the next one.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:37:00 AM EDT

[#33]

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Big time. I actually talked about it at length with O_P.

In short: People who live here are SUPER nice to you. And it's contagious. It's so contagious, that you find yourself acting exactly like them just to fit in, so that they don't call you a dirty Yankee. And in so doing, you find that you're actually being super nice to complete strangers.

The whole thing is pretty insidious. You're some devious fuckers, like that. Being all nice and shit.

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Let me ask you Sub, having been in Texas for a few months, do you feel like your perspective of the world has changed any?

Big time. I actually talked about it at length with O_P.

In short: People who live here are SUPER nice to you. And it's contagious. It's so contagious, that you find yourself acting exactly like them just to fit in, so that they don't call you a dirty Yankee. And in so doing, you find that you're actually being super nice to complete strangers.

The whole thing is pretty insidious. You're some devious fuckers, like that. Being all nice and shit.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:42:31 AM EDT

[#34]

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I don't get what part of any plan that is suppose to fit into, its not a logical argument and makes no sense.

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That's because you're humanising something that, if it exists, is beyond any ability for you to comprehend. As a result, you're expecting human-like logic. More specifically, you're expecting a sense of humanity.

It's a bit of a sticky issue, really.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:44:53 AM EDT

[#35]

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On that last post of mine, I really do mean it.Texans are (as a rule and mostly in person) nice as hell. They really are, as a group, over the top just...nice. It's so pervasive, that you end up being every bit as nice, just to fit in. It's a cultural thing that just sort of creeps into you.

I'm not kidding either, it's just about the friendliest state there is.

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They've been super friendly since 1973, my first visit.
But then again so we're N'Orleaner folks, and New Mexican people.
And Kentuckians, Georgians are really nice.
Treat others as you wish to be treated works well.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:45:34 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

I'm not sure if "I'm just not interested" can really be described as "an excuse".

Religion and churches certainly have their benefits. They create a sense of community, a community with a shared ideology based on mutual support as a binding and defining factor.

Humans operate at their finest in a strong community. I just happen to believe that you can achieve the same benefits through any shared positive ideology, even if that ends up being a community of Bronies. I consider it to be a function of humanity, not some greater power.

None of which is a reflection on whether or not a greater power exists. I have no problem with that concept, I just doubt that Jesus is really interested in peering down and judging me for whacking off to midget porn.

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My feeling (at the moment, in Texas, in the United States) is that absent a cohesive ideology that is otherwise non-religious, our best bet is to embrace what we already have, and know works.

There's no sense in reinventing the wheel. I'm telling you as sure as I'm sitting here, that the State (and perhaps country) that I live in would be a much better place if there was more of what I saw last Sunday, and not less. And I'm the poster boy of "less" that's saying it.

After Sunday School, I just sat through a Sunday sermon preached by a man who waxed poetic for the better part of 45 minutes on the importance of family - something I've long been super enthusiastic about, as a solution to that which ails us. I agreed with nearly every word he said. I don't agree with how he got there, but I do agree with where he ended up. And I'm telling you that the crowd of people that heard it (to include me) would have never been there, if the building they met in was a monument to, and gathering place of, Atheists - even Atheists with a cohesive political or philosophical ideology...neither of which really exist, in practice. Getting us on the same page is not unlike herding cats. It's fuckin' hopeless.

I believe in what you're saying. All of this is technically possible without religion, belief in a higher power, etc, etc. The real core of it all is community, and shared values. But a secular version of that doesn't really exist in practice. I know something that does exist in practice, and I think it'd work, were it more widespread than it is. I don't believe in any of the core teachings (I am what I am), but I do sincerely believe that we'd be a better country if most of us behaved like the ~100 people I saw last Sunday. I mean it, too.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:46:12 AM EDT

[#37]

Great post Sub.

There really are some great guys and girls on here!

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:48:56 AM EDT

[#38]

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Great read....As someone who has grown up in the church and has been an active member for all of my adult life, I am starting to struggle with this as well. I am flat out just not believing anymore ( cue journey . The other day I saw this meme, as stupid as it is since its a meme and the internet it made me think hard.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/88/88dfd1f78d933d53293376c06937a4eeb020c02a9c7ea48f75b2c9478a460c5d.jpg

So here is the meme, and any time I have sought clarification or a real response from my church leader ship I just get some broad " its all a part of the plan" non answer. Our god is suppose to be omnipresent , all knowing, loving, caring etc. I realize that he grants us free will but what about those in the picture they have literally 0 control over the situations they were born into, starving and suffering. I don't get what part of any plan that is suppose to fit into, its not a logical argument and makes no sense. The same goes for kids here that are abused to death or literally tortured by piece of shit parents or their junkie friends. Not seeing where this fits in with any plan or how a god that is suppose to be loving/caring omnipresent etc. would let these things go on...

Not trying to hijack , more of a rant/ vent than anything but as someone like you who grew up in the church and has even been a very active member of the church I'm just not buying it anymore. The more fucked up our world is becoming the less I am believing.

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More reason TOO believe IMO. The bible says how crazy things will be before Jesus returns, the world is in a tailspin...

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:51:27 AM EDT

[#39]

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Quoted:

I'm not sure if "I'm just not interested" can really be described as "an excuse".

Religion and churches certainly have their benefits. They create a sense of community, a community with a shared ideology based on mutual support as a binding and defining factor.

Humans operate at their finest in a strong community. I just happen to believe that you can achieve the same benefits through any shared positive ideology, even if that ends up being a community of Bronies. I consider it to be a function of humanity, not some greater power.

None of which is a reflection on whether or not a greater power exists. I have no problem with that concept, I just doubt that Jesus is really interested in peering down and judging me for whacking off to midget porn.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
...The excuses ranged from hungover to too busy to working to the GF at the time would get down right furious that I would go...

I'm not sure if "I'm just not interested" can really be described as "an excuse".

Religion and churches certainly have their benefits. They create a sense of community, a community with a shared ideology based on mutual support as a binding and defining factor.

Humans operate at their finest in a strong community. I just happen to believe that you can achieve the same benefits through any shared positive ideology, even if that ends up being a community of Bronies. I consider it to be a function of humanity, not some greater power.

None of which is a reflection on whether or not a greater power exists. I have no problem with that concept, I just doubt that Jesus is really interested in peering down and judging me for whacking off to midget porn.

At one time, in my youthful ignorance, I would have argued with you and not had a valid point. Again, youthful ignorance. You are absolutely correct on human nature and the need for community and sense of acceptance and belonging. I believe that it is easier having grown up in church to maintain beliefs, just the same as having grown up in any community. Just right now I am trying to imagine what church would be like for a first timer with no religious upbringing. I can't even begin to imagine it and the struggle and confusion that it would entail. It is beyond my understanding at this time.

As far as Jesus's interest in you is concerned though, I believe (this is where faith comes in) that He is concerned and watching over everyone at all times. This being the all-knowing/all-powerful part that many believe. He is most definitely interested in you Rogue, however, He asks that people come willingly and with an open heart. I believe that we can all agree that no matter how much something is forced upon us, we will always fight it. And even when we "give in" we at times mentally fight or debate, regardless if it is an orphan adopted into a family to an abductee suffering from Stockholm syndrome. I at times even question parts of the Scripture and my faith and always want to know why. That is human nature.

I don't see Jesus peering down and judging anyone. I would imagine Him being sad and hopeful that people will come to Him on their own volition. I believe that the judging most people feel is actually their conscious telling them that what they are doing is wrong and that they have suppressed it well.

That's just my .02. Thank you Rogue for being a gentleman in this thread and for your expressing your views in a civilized manner.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:52:54 AM EDT

[#40]

Good thread. Worth the read. Always interesting and refreshing to hear things from someone else's perspective, in a time when so many people simply want to yell at each other, instead of taking the time to actually talk with each other. Thanks for being willing to open up and share with us.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:57:47 AM EDT

[#41]

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Quoted:
I was raised Southern Baptist in Texas.

There was lots of grandstanding and little substance. The pastor had no time for his congregation. I know because I tried to ask him a question about why God would send Hurricane Alicia to hurt us, and he was annoyed having to talk to me.

The pastor's daughter was sleeping with half the school. The youth pastor's flock was a great place to buy drugs. Everone paid very close attention to how much families put into the very public offering plates, and they treated people differently based on that.

But on the surface it looked all quite devout, and an outsider might be impressed, I'm sure.

I must confess that my experience is with one Baptist church in one town. Your church may be different.

View Quote

When you take the spirituality out of religion, that's what you're left with. I saw the same when I was young and it's why I'm not religious.

I still call myself a Christian though but my idea of God is a bit different these days. I know there has to be a God but I'm pretty sure he's not the same as I was taught. My interpretation is a little different.

That being said, I really enjoyed your post and I hope God finds his way back into your life. I can tell you want him there.

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:59:36 AM EDT

[#42]

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Quoted:

Getting us on the same page is not unlike herding cats. It's fuckin' hopeless.

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Have you considered Scientology?

Posted: 10/25/2016 8:59:40 AM EDT

[#43]

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Quoted:
To each his own. I don't particularly like any Abrahamic religions

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Teener, just Teenin the fuck outta this thread.

Posted: 10/25/2016 9:00:14 AM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

That's just my .02. Thank you Rogue for being a gentleman in this thread and for your expressing your views in a civilized manner.

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Don't worry, the night is still young

Posted: 10/25/2016 9:00:28 AM EDT

[#45]

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Quoted:

More reason TOO believe IMO. The bible says how crazy things will be before Jesus returns, the world is in a tailspin...

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Great read....As someone who has grown up in the church and has been an active member for all of my adult life, I am starting to struggle with this as well. I am flat out just not believing anymore ( cue journey . The other day I saw this meme, as stupid as it is since its a meme and the internet it made me think hard.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/88/88dfd1f78d933d53293376c06937a4eeb020c02a9c7ea48f75b2c9478a460c5d.jpg

So here is the meme, and any time I have sought clarification or a real response from my church leader ship I just get some broad " its all a part of the plan" non answer. Our god is suppose to be omnipresent , all knowing, loving, caring etc. I realize that he grants us free will but what about those in the picture they have literally 0 control over the situations they were born into, starving and suffering. I don't get what part of any plan that is suppose to fit into, its not a logical argument and makes no sense. The same goes for kids here that are abused to death or literally tortured by piece of shit parents or their junkie friends. Not seeing where this fits in with any plan or how a god that is suppose to be loving/caring omnipresent etc. would let these things go on...

Not trying to hijack , more of a rant/ vent than anything but as someone like you who grew up in the church and has even been a very active member of the church I'm just not buying it anymore. The more fucked up our world is becoming the less I am believing.

More reason TOO believe IMO. The bible says how crazy things will be before Jesus returns, the world is in a tailspin...

To me it seems the further we get away from God, and the mode readily sick people can find others like them who empower them, the more we see the messed up things the poster is talking about.

Posted: 10/25/2016 9:01:15 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Teener, just Teenin the fuck outta this thread.

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I didn't take it that way. I get what he's saying.

Posted: 10/25/2016 9:01:32 AM EDT

[#47]

One guy teaching about bible can be cool.

Get a group of people together in the name of religion (or anything for that matter) and you'll have scheming, power plays, abuse, lying, corruption, and all sorts of soap opera behavior.

Raised as a Catholic.

Posted: 10/25/2016 9:02:16 AM EDT

[#48]

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..... we'd be a better country. I mean it, too. As a total unrepentant, heathen, atheist, etc. Not kidding. I don't believe any of it, but I really wish most of the country did.

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Completely agree. Yeah there are some of the weirdo's in my wife's church that just overdo it all, but on the whole that group of people will bend over backwards to help anyone that needs help to best of their ability. The world doesn't suck because of them.

Posted: 10/25/2016 9:04:34 AM EDT

[#49]

I grew up in a churchy home much as Subnet wrote. It does instill some good values and I am a better person for it.

But these days "God" and I have a much more casual relationship and I prefer to sleep in on the weekends. I actually subscribe more to the teachings of George Carlin when he taught us, simply, "Don't be an asshole".

Posted: 10/25/2016 9:05:58 AM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:

When you take the spirituality out of religion, that's what you're left with. I saw the same when I was young and it's why I'm not religious.

I still call myself a Christian though but my idea of God is a bit different these days. I know there has to be a God but I'm pretty sure he's not the same as I was taught. My interpretation is a little different.

That being said, I really enjoyed your post and I hope God finds his way back into your life. I can tell you want him there.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was raised Southern Baptist in Texas.

There was lots of grandstanding and little substance. The pastor had no time for his congregation. I know because I tried to ask him a question about why God would send Hurricane Alicia to hurt us, and he was annoyed having to talk to me.

The pastor's daughter was sleeping with half the school. The youth pastor's flock was a great place to buy drugs. Everone paid very close attention to how much families put into the very public offering plates, and they treated people differently based on that.

But on the surface it looked all quite devout, and an outsider might be impressed, I'm sure.

I must confess that my experience is with one Baptist church in one town. Your church may be different.

When you take the spirituality out of religion, that's what you're left with. I saw the same when I was young and it's why I'm not religious.

I still call myself a Christian though but my idea of God is a bit different these days. I know there has to be a God but I'm pretty sure he's not the same as I was taught. My interpretation is a little different.

That being said, I really enjoyed your post and I hope God finds his way back into your life. I can tell you want him there.

I'd started to warn in my post that there are as many bad churches, or people in church, or bad experiences as there are good, because there are a lot of people using God for gain, for power, or in some other way twisted way to suit their needs (whether knowingly or not). But the good are easy to see. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - An unrepentant heathen finds God: Subnet Goes To Church. Warning: Long read. Many paragraphs. (Page 2 of 6)

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