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Posted: 10/25/2016 4:02:49 AM EDT
I suppose the thread title contains more than a bit of hyperbole. I'm still, and will remain, an unrepentant non-believing heathen. But I did find God. Sort of. Not really. More on that later. 

I'm a non-believer. Even after my recent weekend experience on a sunny Sunday near Beaumont Texas, I still am. You didn't expect anything different, right? Most folks would call me an Atheist. Other folks (especially if they harbor even a shred of hope for my salvation) would call me an Agnostic. Some hard core philosophy nuts would call me an Agnostic Atheist, and some even more hard core philosophy nuts would dismiss all of that as noise. I haven't the slightest idea what I am. I'm an honest man, I suppose. If somebody asks me "Are you an Atheist?", I have to truthfully answer in the affirmative, even as I hate the label, because of the baggage that comes along with it. I don't believe that God exists. And even if I said I did, I certainly don't behave as if I believed it. If somebody asks me "Are you an agnostic?", I have to truthfully answer in the affirmative, even as I (again) feel uncomfortable with the label. I don't know that it's possible to prove that God doesn't exist. He very well might, however unlikely to my monkey/lizard brain. So I suppose the hard core philosophy nuts win this round - I can't know, but I don't believe. Congrats, guys. I guess. I dunno. Who cares?

Anyhoo...

The point of this thread is to examine an American, Southern Baptist, and most importantly - Texas experience, from the perspective of an again...unrepentant heathen. Agnostic. Atheist. Infidel. Unbeliever. Sower of vile shit, depending on who you ask. Note: I play devil music on request. On vinyl. Over the Internet. Tell a friend. 

Let me set this up: I grew up in the church. I have fond memories of the church. Some of the best friends I've made over my life, were made because of the church. No priest or pastor ever hurt me, emotionally or physically. No member of any congregation I ever attended or was a member of, ever hurt me. Come to think of it, every solitary experience I ever had that was even tangentially related to the church was a positive one. Seriously. There is no one moment that made my question my faith - No hypocrites, no fornicators, no drunkards, no adulterers, no nothing. At some point, I just decided that there wasn't enough evidence (potentially falsifiable evidence, subject to repeatable testing)  to actually believe in any of it. Faith, as they say, is belief in the unseen and the unknown. I'm just not wired like that. I can't do it. I'm just as content saying "I dunno". That's the Agnostic bit. I'm also just as content saying "I don't believe that to be true, and I live my life as if that were the case". That's the Atheist bit. I'm a complicated fellow. 

But still, I harbor a great deal of respect and admiration for the Biblical culture that actually raised me. You heard that right - I'm actually crediting something I don't even believe in for making me the okie dokie guy I am today. You can't shake it. 

I showed up last Sunday to watch Old_Painless teach Sunday School. While I do enjoy shooting with the man (and I provably did the best shooting of my life under his tutelage), there's something to be said about participating in an activity that your friend holds dearer than life itself. Shooting stuff is fun, but it doesn't really compare to where he's at spiritually. 

I feel like I need to expand on this, too. I had a latent feeling that the man and the legend (Old_Painless) would ask me to come to his humble church on Sunday. Knowing this (or at least, having a really good hunch), I packed my "Sunday go-to-meetin'" clothes in my overnight bag, just in case. I knew it was coming. And it did. But little did I know, that his humble little Baptist Church was kind of a "Come as you are" (Nirvana-style) congregation. I was damn near overdressed. There I was, an Atheist in the midst (bring a fire extinguisher), dressed better than 75% of the congregation (the old guys showed me up by wearing full on suits), feeling like kind of a schmuck. Even O_P looked at me as I came out of his bathroom and said "Well...you clean up nice". 

Man, when I was a kid, you dressed up when you went to church. You just did. No excuses. Yeah I know, it's really all about what's in your heart. And yeah I know, the threads you have on do not in any way indicate you love of your savior, born of the virgin Mary. I get it. Your threads have nothing to do with any of that. In fact, Jesus himself would probably offend my church sensibilities, if he had the stones to show up dressed like he was. 

Got it. 

But man...dress up a little. It's church, God dammnit. And this is an Atheist talking. If I can dress up for a God I don't even believe in, so can you. I'm looking at you, youth pastor with the jeans, body forming shirt, and faux hawk haircut. Put some fuckin' slacks on, and maybe a button down shirt or something. Come on, man. There are teenagers watching. 

I'm kind of old school in that regard. Forgive me...

So, I finally got to see Old_Painless teach Sunday School. The man really does teach Sunday School, and I feel like the luckiest guy on this site for having the privilege of witnessing it in person. As a student. And I really do think of myself as a student. I may not believe that God exists, but I'll be damned if I'm going to carry on not knowing what it is that I'm actually rejecting. This really was the highlight of my weekend. And I have a feeling it was the highlight of his, which is why I think it's the highlight of mine, and...this is getting to be kind of meta. 

One of the things I want to point out, is that he really is a great teacher. It's not just guns, (and he's super good at that) he has an uncanny ability to articulate exactly why he believes what he does, and why. To wit: Romans, Chapter 2. This is the book and chapter being discussed in his class. I told you this was a long winded post, in the title of the thread. 

Here, O_P spends the bulk of the class time explaining how Paul was trying to resolve a real conundrum between Jews and Gentiles in a new church. On the one hand, you have these Jews who grew up with The Law™, and on the other you have these newbie Gentiles who know nothing of it. And want nothing of it. How are these two to reconcile? 

The class discussion on this fascinated me, and I even learned a bit. There's A LOT to this chapter for a Christian, but as an unbelieving heathen, I kind of narrowed down to these verses:


12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
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Man, that's heavy. And to be honest...I kind of feel the vibe. O_P took some time to explain to his class, that The Law™ (you like that?) can't save you. He spent a great deal of time explaining that yeah, you can try to follow every law, and many Jews of the day tried. But you can't follow every one of them , all of the time. It's also interesting that Paul (speaking to his congregation at the time), is fully cognizant of the fact that Gentiles have sinned (having no frame of reference when it comes to Jewish law), but also...their Jewish brothers and sisters have sinned as well. Paul is explaining this to them. 

Doctrinally, I kind of learned this:

There's always this question of "Well, what about people who've never heard the Good News™". What about them? Well, the scripture says that for as many as have sinned without law, shall also perish without law.. And as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. 

I take this to mean that yer proper fucked either way. 

I don't think O_P would see it this way, though. You should probably listen to him, if you want to know how real Christians actually interpret those verses. Not me. 

And he continued teaching his class, dutifully reading from Romans Chapter 2, and explaining every verse, And as he did, students in the class asked him questions, and he earnestly responded to each and every one of them. Note that I actually wanted REALLY BAD to answer some of those questions he asked, as a former believer. This is where it gets weird - I actually knew exactly what to say, but I kept my mouth shut.  I felt like I'd be talking out of turn. But man, it killed me, because I heard some of the answers given, and I was like "Man, I could have TOTALLY given a better answer than that!". It's a heavy burden. 

He does have a teaching style that's like "And what does Paul really mean here?" And while the class is furiously scrambling (or even reading ahead), I already know what he wants to hear. But I'm a non-beleiving heathen, so I can't really say it. It killed me. 

 I'm there to listen and observe. Nobody wants the atheist to chime in with the "right answer", believe me. Without me saying anything, he spent some time reminding us that knowing the Bible chapter and verse didn't mean anything other than the fact that you know the Bible chapter and verse. Demons do too. He didn't call me a demon, but I picked up what he was laying down. 

Speaking of which...

He ended the class by quoting Charles Spurgeon:

“If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our dead bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for.”

I actually teared and welled up, when he read this aloud. I'm not kidding, I cried a little. I'm not proud. It was pretty emotional for me. If it's not for you, I'd encourage you to read it again. Slowly. 

Next up, (when I feel like it and it's not 3:00am in the morning) I'll describe the main worship service from the perspective of a proper heathen, and music junkie. 

Hint to my fellow non-believers as to what's coming: These people are not your enemies. They're you're friends. Listen to them. . 














 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:13:23 AM EDT
[#1]
thanks for posting

well worth the read...........

Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:20:23 AM EDT
[#2]
To each his own.  I don't particularly like any Abrahamic religions
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:21:15 AM EDT
[#3]
God and I have come to an agreement: I don't bother him, he doesn't bother me. I don't know if that makes me an Atheist, but it sure gives me a lot more free time on the weekend.




Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:26:35 AM EDT
[#4]
I've thought about the small basically unknown preacher who led Charles Spurgeon to Christ.

A man of no great accomplishments, but who was faithful and who in his faith touched one seemingly
insignificant life, a life that would go on to become one of the greatest preachers of all time. Someone that
went on to touch many lives.

You never know what a seemingly small thing might grow into.......



Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:28:11 AM EDT
[#5]
That's a hell of a quote from Spurgeon.

Sounds like you had a good weeekend all around.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:28:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:32:16 AM EDT
[#7]
And here I got jumped on for daring to suggest that there's a difference between agnostics and atheists


Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:33:38 AM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for this. I read it all. Old_Painless sounds like he's remarkable. I liked the Charles Spurgeon quote.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:34:03 AM EDT
[#9]

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Quoted:



I don't have much use for religion but going to Old Painless' Sunday School would be fun.



Lots of people don't have much in the way of dress clothes anymore. I went to the funeral of a politically connected matriarch of a large family. The only people in suits were lawyers and some cops who would own them anyway for work. A few older guys had sports coats. One relative had a t shirt on.

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Quoted:



Quoted:

God and I have come to an agreement: I don't bother him, he doesn't bother me. I don't know if that makes me an Atheist, but it sure gives me a lot more free time on the weekend.



I don't have much use for religion but going to Old Painless' Sunday School would be fun.



Lots of people don't have much in the way of dress clothes anymore. I went to the funeral of a politically connected matriarch of a large family. The only people in suits were lawyers and some cops who would own them anyway for work. A few older guys had sports coats. One relative had a t shirt on.



It would be a fascinating experience but I wouldn't for a simple reason: I'm possible one of the most argumentative fuckers on this planet and I couldn't keep my mouth shut. I don't mind arguing on the internet, but it would be disrespectful to go into someone's house and do it. I lack that bit of impulse control unfortunately. Hell, I almost got kicked out of catechism classes as a kid



 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:34:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:


I don't have much use for religion but going to Old Painless' Sunday School would be fun.
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Lots of people don't have much in the way of dress clothes anymore. I went to the funeral of a politically connected matriarch of a large family. The only people in suits were lawyers and some cops who would own them anyway for work. A few older guys had sports coats. One relative had a t shirt on.
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You know, a few years ago, I had a long and lengthy argument with Bohr_Adam over wearing a hat indoors. 

He considered it uncouth. I said it didn't technically matter. We went back and forth, as one does on an Internet forum. 

You know what? He doesn't know it, but a few years later - I agree with him. 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:35:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Thanks for sharing.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:37:48 AM EDT
[#12]

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Quoted:





You know, a few years ago, I had a long and lengthy argument with Bohr_Adam over wearing a hat indoors.



He considered it uncouth. I said it didn't technically matter. We went back and forth, as one does on an Internet forum.



You know what? He doesn't know it, but a few years later - I agree with him.
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Quoted:



Quoted:





I don't have much use for religion but going to Old Painless' Sunday School would be fun.

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</div>

Lots of people don't have much in the way of dress clothes anymore. I went to the funeral of a politically connected matriarch of a large family. The only people in suits were lawyers and some cops who would own them anyway for work. A few older guys had sports coats. One relative had a t shirt on.


You know, a few years ago, I had a long and lengthy argument with Bohr_Adam over wearing a hat indoors.



He considered it uncouth. I said it didn't technically matter. We went back and forth, as one does on an Internet forum.



You know what? He doesn't know it, but a few years later - I agree with him.


Lots of things don't technically matter. Lots of things still have meaning. Sometimes it takes a while to appreciate how valuable and important "a meaning" can be.



 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:37:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:

Thanks for sharing.
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You're welcome. Did you actually read my rambling prose? 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:42:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:44:27 AM EDT
[#15]
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You're welcome. Did you actually read my rambling prose? 
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Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome. Did you actually read my rambling prose? 


I did. I'm a Christian but have no desire to step foot in a church due to some personal baggage. It sounds like you had a meaningful experience and I respect that.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:45:04 AM EDT
[#16]
Good read and a nice tale. I look forward to the rest.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:45:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Having grown up in the southern Babtist church, I can pretty much color in all the lines of that story in my head



My grandfather was a minister in the Southern Babtist Convention, so I've spent many a day listening to what O_P made you sit through
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:47:46 AM EDT
[#18]
read it.....God Bless you in your journey.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:50:56 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:




Lots of things don't technically matter. Lots of things still have meaning. Sometimes it takes a while to appreciate how valuable and important "a meaning" can be.



 
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I'll tell you what it is, and maybe I'm spoiling my next lengthy update:

You already know that I'm an Atheist and libertarian. So by all rights, I'm good with pretty much anything that doesn't hurt anybody else. I'm as open minded and laid back ask they come. 

But at the same time, I'm NOT a libertine. And there's a part of me that feels like we've really lowered the bar too far. I don't want to fix anything that bugs me through the force of law, but I'd sure like it if we collectively decided to just be a-okay, 

If you're at a funeral - please for the love of God, don't show up in shorts and flip flops. I totally get that you're just as full of sorrow as I am, no matter what you're wearing. I totally get that that strictly speaking, the clothes you're wearing don't actually reflect the real sorrow you feel. Got it. Totally get it. But for the love of God, please wear a suit. Just do it. Please? And honestly, please spend a couple few dollars to make sure it fits. I swear to God, your tailor wants it to look good on you. He really does. Promise. 


Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:53:07 AM EDT
[#20]
I dont particularly care about any religion or beliefs, to each his own. I have seen pure evil and the joy of just being alive. I know there is something bigger than us that got this world going. I hope it keeps going that way and i try to do my part.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 4:56:13 AM EDT
[#21]
That's a well thought out reflection of your recent experience OP. Good nod of respect to a man you respect also.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:00:34 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:

I dont particularly care about any religion or beliefs, to each his own. I have seen pure evil and the joy of just being alive. I know there is something bigger than us that got this world going. I hope it keeps going that way and i try to do my part.
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I don't either. 

But I do care about people. And as sure as I'm sitting here, I really believe with all of my heart, that if what I witnessed last Sunday was the norm nationwide, we'd be a better country. I mean it, too. As a total unrepentant, heathen, atheist, etc. Not kidding. I don't believe any of it, but I really wish most of the country did. 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:04:01 AM EDT
[#23]
When I saw O_P's post and that you had gone to church, I wondered what you must have thought of the experience knowing your views on religion.

This answered that perfectly. Great post, thanks for sharing!
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:08:11 AM EDT
[#24]
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I don't either. 

But I do care about people. And as sure as I'm sitting here, I really believe with all of my heart, that if what I witnessed last Sunday was the norm nationwide, we'd be a better country. I mean it, too. As a total unrepentant, heathen, atheist, etc. Not kidding. I don't believe any of it, but I really wish most of the country did. 
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Quoted:

I dont particularly care about any religion or beliefs, to each his own. I have seen pure evil and the joy of just being alive. I know there is something bigger than us that got this world going. I hope it keeps going that way and i try to do my part.

I don't either. 

But I do care about people. And as sure as I'm sitting here, I really believe with all of my heart, that if what I witnessed last Sunday was the norm nationwide, we'd be a better country. I mean it, too. As a total unrepentant, heathen, atheist, etc. Not kidding. I don't believe any of it, but I really wish most of the country did. 


Absolutely brother, you can feel it in your heart. You came from that place with a warm grinch smile. Came off that mountain with presents for everyone. I know.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:09:12 AM EDT
[#25]

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I'll tell you what it is, and maybe I'm spoiling my next lengthy update:



You already know that I'm an Atheist and libertarian. So by all rights, I'm good with pretty much anything that doesn't hurt anybody else. I'm as open minded and laid back ask they come.



But at the same time, I'm NOT a libertine. And there's a part of me that feels like we've really lowered the bar too far. I don't want to fix anything that bugs me through the force of law, but I'd sure like it if we collectively decided to just be a-okay,



If you're at a funeral - please for the love of God, don't show up in shorts and flip flops. I totally get that you're just as full of sorrow as I am, no matter what you're wearing. I totally get that that strictly speaking, the clothes you're wearing don't actually reflect the real sorrow you feel. Got it. Totally get it. But for the love of God, please wear a suit. Just do it. Please? And honestly, please spend a couple few dollars to make sure it fits. I swear to God, your tailor wants it to look good on you. He really does. Promise.





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Quoted:



Quoted:
Lots of things don't technically matter. Lots of things still have meaning. Sometimes it takes a while to appreciate how valuable and important "a meaning" can be.
 


I'll tell you what it is, and maybe I'm spoiling my next lengthy update:



You already know that I'm an Atheist and libertarian. So by all rights, I'm good with pretty much anything that doesn't hurt anybody else. I'm as open minded and laid back ask they come.



But at the same time, I'm NOT a libertine. And there's a part of me that feels like we've really lowered the bar too far. I don't want to fix anything that bugs me through the force of law, but I'd sure like it if we collectively decided to just be a-okay,



If you're at a funeral - please for the love of God, don't show up in shorts and flip flops. I totally get that you're just as full of sorrow as I am, no matter what you're wearing. I totally get that that strictly speaking, the clothes you're wearing don't actually reflect the real sorrow you feel. Got it. Totally get it. But for the love of God, please wear a suit. Just do it. Please? And honestly, please spend a couple few dollars to make sure it fits. I swear to God, your tailor wants it to look good on you. He really does. Promise.







Two of the most precious - and jealously guarded - things that we have, are our time and our attention. Turning up looking like a scruff that's stopping by on the way to the bar just shows that you're not prepared to give either. Dressing appropriately at least shows that you've given the matter some time and attention.



Just take a moment to look back through life. How often has a person made you feel that you had their complete time and attention? How many made you feel that they had something better to do and you were distracting them? Giving someone - or something - time and attention matters.



 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:15:34 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
I don't have much use for religion but going to Old Painless' Sunday School would be fun.

Lots of people don't have much in the way of dress clothes anymore. I went to the funeral of a politically connected matriarch of a large family. The only people in suits were lawyers and some cops who would own them anyway for work. A few older guys had sports coats. One relative had a t shirt on.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
God and I have come to an agreement: I don't bother him, he doesn't bother me. I don't know if that makes me an Atheist, but it sure gives me a lot more free time on the weekend.

I don't have much use for religion but going to Old Painless' Sunday School would be fun.

Lots of people don't have much in the way of dress clothes anymore. I went to the funeral of a politically connected matriarch of a large family. The only people in suits were lawyers and some cops who would own them anyway for work. A few older guys had sports coats. One relative had a t shirt on.


People don't care anymore. It is socially acceptable to show up to a funeral, church, court, etc wearing the same thing you'd wear to Walmart on a Saturday afternoon. Heck, some churches are proud of it. I know a local pastor through his work with our local HS football team. He would often invite us to church and make sure to mention how they weren't a formal church. Yet the few times we attended I at least wore a sport coat and slacks.

When I was a teenager attending a hellfire freewill baptist church, I wore a tshirt and jeans most of the time. I look back in embarrassment. No, I didn't own any suits or jackets. But I did have some nice formal shirts. These days I wear a suit to any of the aforementioned locations.

I know people who definitely don't own a suit. They're old farmers, never married. But they do have nice clothes to wear to a funeral. It's sad that most people don't have enough respect for themselves and others to at least own a nice shirt, slacks and shoes. Such is the world today. And as Sub said in his last post, this country would be better off if they did.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:16:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Oh, and Billy Joe, great story.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:17:44 AM EDT
[#28]


I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?"


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Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:21:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Well said! I can put myself in your place in your telling. I haven't been to an actual service let alone Sunday school in 20 years. But I understand what you mean by being ready with the proper answers. Old Painless sounds like an awesome fellow. Good on you for attending with him. It sounds like you had a great time all in all.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 5:30:23 AM EDT
[#30]
I was raised Southern Baptist in Texas.

There was lots of grandstanding and little substance.  The pastor had no time for his congregation.  I know because I tried to ask him a question about why God would send Hurricane Alicia to hurt us, and he was annoyed having to talk to me.

The pastor's daughter was sleeping with half the school.  The youth pastor's flock was a great place to buy drugs.  Everone paid very close attention to how much families put into the very public offering plates, and they treated people differently based on that.

But on the surface it looked all quite devout, and an outsider might be impressed, I'm sure.

I must confess that my experience is with one Baptist church in one town.  Your church may be different.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:08:19 AM EDT
[#31]
So when will we get to hear this devil music. On vinyl. Over the internetz. By request. Again?











I haven't been to church in forever. I still believe and I still try to be a good moral person though, not that an athiest can't be a good and moral person either. And, to me, God seems like he works on a macro rather than micro level.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:13:01 AM EDT
[#32]
Thanks for that, well written.  I've long been an agnostic/atheist that finds himself defending religion all the time, for this very reason:

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But I do care about people. And as sure as I'm sitting here, I really believe with all of my heart, that if what I witnessed last Sunday was the norm nationwide, we'd be a better country. I mean it, too. As a total unrepentant, heathen, atheist, etc. Not kidding. I don't believe any of it, but I really wish most of the country did. 
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Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:14:53 AM EDT
[#33]
Too many words to read. I am not reading that, where are the pictures. 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:18:58 AM EDT
[#34]
Good read.

OP, I was in your camp for a long time, not anymore.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:20:32 AM EDT
[#35]
So is the TLDR version that you are still going to hell in a handbasket?
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:24:50 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:

Too many words to read. I am not reading that, where are the pictures. 
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Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:25:54 AM EDT
[#37]

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Quoted:



Too many words to read. I am not reading that, where are the pictures.
http://959online.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/guns-n-roses.jpg




 
Izzy FTW
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:27:49 AM EDT
[#38]
Nice write up, i'm tagging this so i can write a longer response when i get a moment
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:32:03 AM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:

Too many words to read. I am not reading that, where are the pictures. 
http://959online.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/guns-n-roses.jpg

Good morning Sub. I owe you a case of beer. Thanks for the picture...
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:37:57 AM EDT
[#40]
I have always said that there could be good life lessons that come out of going to church.  Unlike Subnet, this heathen goes to church very often and I garner tidbits quite often.  American church goers tend to be great people and I am proud to call many my friends.  

Subnet, it sounds like you got hit with a bit of what many church goers get hit with, the emotional high from the worship.  Believers will often call it "moved by the spirit".  This feeling is why many people attend church. In a way it much like the reason people go to scary movies or women read sad books, the event stirs their emotions.

The books by Paul take up much of the NT and do contain much of the life lessons that christians base their behaviors on.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:38:15 AM EDT
[#41]
Nice write up.  I'm not surprised to hear that O_P is just as great in person as on the internet.  I'm just as atheist as you are, maybe a bit more obnoxious about it, but I'd go to church with O_P any time.  If all Christians were as patient, kind, and understanding they might not be losing members as fast as they are.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:38:30 AM EDT
[#42]

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You know, a few years ago, I had a long and lengthy argument with Bohr_Adam over wearing a hat indoors.



He considered it uncouth. I said it didn't technically matter. We went back and forth, as one does on an Internet forum.



You know what? He doesn't know it, but a few years later - I agree with him.
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I don't have much use for religion but going to Old Painless' Sunday School would be fun.

<div>



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Lots of people don't have much in the way of dress clothes anymore. I went to the funeral of a politically connected matriarch of a large family. The only people in suits were lawyers and some cops who would own them anyway for work. A few older guys had sports coats. One relative had a t shirt on.


You know, a few years ago, I had a long and lengthy argument with Bohr_Adam over wearing a hat indoors.



He considered it uncouth. I said it didn't technically matter. We went back and forth, as one does on an Internet forum.



You know what? He doesn't know it, but a few years later - I agree with him.
All you have to do is to observe those who do, and those who don't. Applies to the subject of this thread too.

 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:39:16 AM EDT
[#43]
Good post Sub.

I will be praying that the Lord will draw you unto Himself.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:42:17 AM EDT
[#44]
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Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:46:26 AM EDT
[#45]
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Don't be shy. 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:48:35 AM EDT
[#46]
There's a difference between knowing the book and believing it..

I believe you believe  more than you believe you believe.,

Mr. M.O.A. .






Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:48:53 AM EDT
[#47]
Sub, reading that made *me* tear up....thank you for taking the time to write that up.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:49:39 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:

Sub, reading that made *me* tear up....thank you for taking the time to write that up.
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Wel, hell...you're welcome. 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:50:51 AM EDT
[#49]

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Wel, hell...you're welcome.
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Quoted:



Sub, reading that made *me* tear up....thank you for taking the time to write that up.


Wel, hell...you're welcome.

Now come back to Ohio and teach me how to shoot!  10 cases of Yuengling will be yours


 
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 6:51:12 AM EDT
[#50]
Glad you had a good time and experience.  Although I disagree with O_P on religion, he has my respect.
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