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Posted: 10/28/2016 2:54:02 PM EDT
[#1]
I fent
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Posted: 10/28/2016 2:58:01 PM EDT
[#2]
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I fent <a href="http://s639.photobucket.com/user/fjfolk/media/5E1520C5-40AC-4515-A34A-E28A0A22BCCF_1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/fjfolk/5E1520C5-40AC-4515-A34A-E28A0A22BCCF_1.jpg</a> 
Your thread has caused me to get off the fence, gonna find used if I can, already got my machine shop picked out. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 3:04:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Agreed but it is not a barrier to making the shot either. It becomes a giant ghost ring. A lot of people are point shooting at that distance anyway.
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My point is that a RDS is useless at short range, like within 3 yards. And pressure switches exist. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO a laser would be more useful for closer ranges. Most of the time you see shootings they are so close people don't remember even using the sights. So they'll remember to activate a laser? People with more training tend to use their sights. My point is that a RDS is useless at short range, like within 3 yards. And pressure switches exist. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 3:11:50 PM EDT
[#4]
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I disagree. I am one of the few that likes lasers and have carried them for years but they are extremely limited in their application. Just about worthless in any kind of bright light and slower than conventional sighted fire. In the situation they do work they are fantastic but in my opinion they are a add on tool and not a replacement for sights of any kind. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO a laser would be more useful for closer ranges. Most of the time you see shootings they are so close people don't remember even using the sights. I disagree. I am one of the few that likes lasers and have carried them for years but they are extremely limited in their application. Just about worthless in any kind of bright light and slower than conventional sighted fire. In the situation they do work they are fantastic but in my opinion they are a add on tool and not a replacement for sights of any kind. What percentage of incidents happen during clear, bright conditions? |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 3:33:01 PM EDT
[#5]
I took Gabe Suarez's class on using optics and the drills he taught were excellent. He stresses doing exactly what you have been doing, draw and find the iron sights. We did that and wow, the red dot was there also. Having Co Witness is necessary and simple. Within 2 hours all of us were firing at 50 meters and gettint the same scores we were getting at 15 meters with Iron only. Actually I've almost got Mas Ayoob ready to give them a solid try.
 Marty Hayes is thinking about having a class using the red dot.
I think that the Reflex sight will become very common in the tactical-ccw world soon. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 3:42:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Bang, bang. Where's the dot? Oh, there it is. Bang, bang. Where's the dot? Oh, there it is.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 3:45:46 PM EDT
[#7]
I have them on both of my carry guns. Typically carry the compact most often.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 3:54:16 PM EDT
[#8]
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What percentage of incidents happen during clear, bright conditions? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO a laser would be more useful for closer ranges. Most of the time you see shootings they are so close people don't remember even using the sights. I disagree. I am one of the few that likes lasers and have carried them for years but they are extremely limited in their application. Just about worthless in any kind of bright light and slower than conventional sighted fire. In the situation they do work they are fantastic but in my opinion they are a add on tool and not a replacement for sights of any kind. What percentage of incidents happen during clear, bright conditions? I have no idea. Sights and Red dots work pretty much all the time though. Even in overcast gray light laser aren't ideal especially if the target is wearing material that doesn't reflect well. Some fabrics swallow the dots up. Like I said I like lasers and have them on both of my primary carry pieces. They are both Crimson Trace lasers so they are on automatically which I believe to be important. My response was simply stating that lasers are a secondary sightinging system not a primary. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 4:03:55 PM EDT
[#9]
red dot sights truly are faster once you get used to them. It's why they win in competition. It shaves off a point of focus so you're looking at dot and target, not rear sight, front sight, target. I had one set up for a while, and I really liked it. I will have one again. Sold it to buy a house. but red dots are getting to be really small, solid, respectable, and will be incorporated into more pistols. I agree that it's a training issue, it really takes some getting used to if you've shot iron sights like I have for your whole shooting career. I'm also happy enough that I still have young eyes, so that helps.
I shot my first match with a dot and I was blown away. I was sitting there waiting for the iron sights to appear the whole time the dot was floating on the target. once I realized that's what I was doing, I started shooting faster and faster and still making good hits. A few more weeks of honest practice and I would have made the switch full time. I find I was point shooting in close, and then like everyone has said it makes for a big ghost ring. The pros: Faster to aim with training able to make accurate shots at distance less focus on sights Cons: expensive. a used M&P is $400. but add 200 for milling and new sights and another $400 plus for the optic... takes some getting used to a possible failure point add bulk, holster troubles Once more companies come out with milled options from the factory to save that milling charge, and sights are proving to be reliable, we will see more and more set ups with them. Carry optics TOOK OFF! so is PCC. People are starting to break out of old ways and embrace new things that work. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 4:05:06 PM EDT
[#10]
got limited since I'm new... above post continued:
I'm a fan of doing what works best for you. It's all a trade off. do I think I'll need to make a head shot on a moving target at 230 yards? Hope not. But my main carry gun (range officer compact) has a lightened slide, night sights, smooth trigger, and green laser. I want every advantage I could get. Next set up may be double stacked with an RMR. time will tell. shoot it a few times and see if you like it. I did. I have not decided if the cost and trouble are worth it yet, but leaning towards yes. |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 11:14:59 AM EDT
[#11]
Been considering the 12.9 green triangle.
Decided to see how it would look on a target as far as size of moa, it helped me visualize it. I'm sure there are some online pics but this is mine. Here are my results, I'm sure someone will tell me if my math is wrong, I rounded if that matters. 
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Posted: 10/30/2016 11:46:42 AM EDT
[#12]
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I have no idea. Sights and Red dots work pretty much all the time though. Even in overcast gray light laser aren't ideal especially if the target is wearing material that doesn't reflect well. Some fabrics swallow the dots up. Like I said I like lasers and have them on both of my primary carry pieces. They are both Crimson Trace lasers so they are on automatically which I believe to be important. My response was simply stating that lasers are a secondary sightinging system not a primary. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO a laser would be more useful for closer ranges. Most of the time you see shootings they are so close people don't remember even using the sights. I disagree. I am one of the few that likes lasers and have carried them for years but they are extremely limited in their application. Just about worthless in any kind of bright light and slower than conventional sighted fire. In the situation they do work they are fantastic but in my opinion they are a add on tool and not a replacement for sights of any kind. What percentage of incidents happen during clear, bright conditions? I have no idea. Sights and Red dots work pretty much all the time though. Even in overcast gray light laser aren't ideal especially if the target is wearing material that doesn't reflect well. Some fabrics swallow the dots up. Like I said I like lasers and have them on both of my primary carry pieces. They are both Crimson Trace lasers so they are on automatically which I believe to be important. My response was simply stating that lasers are a secondary sightinging system not a primary. How well do red dots work from retention? |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 1:01:04 PM EDT
[#13]
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How well do red dots work from retention? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO a laser would be more useful for closer ranges. Most of the time you see shootings they are so close people don't remember even using the sights. I disagree. I am one of the few that likes lasers and have carried them for years but they are extremely limited in their application. Just about worthless in any kind of bright light and slower than conventional sighted fire. In the situation they do work they are fantastic but in my opinion they are a add on tool and not a replacement for sights of any kind. What percentage of incidents happen during clear, bright conditions? I have no idea. Sights and Red dots work pretty much all the time though. Even in overcast gray light laser aren't ideal especially if the target is wearing material that doesn't reflect well. Some fabrics swallow the dots up. Like I said I like lasers and have them on both of my primary carry pieces. They are both Crimson Trace lasers so they are on automatically which I believe to be important. My response was simply stating that lasers are a secondary sightinging system not a primary. How well do red dots work from retention? Can you post some videos of how much faster/more accurate you are shooting from retention with a laser vs without? |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 2:03:04 PM EDT
[#14]
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 No offense , but , Just HOW filthy are you ?
Don't you take the gun off at least once or twice per week? I remove mine every night, not hard to do a quick check then, or in the morning when you put it on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does lint and crud get on the RMR lens and obstruct the dot ever? This is my biggest worry with having one on a ccw. Between lint and sweat it could gum and crud up the lens enough to make it almost useless when you might need it. No offense , but , Just HOW filthy are you ?
Don't you take the gun off at least once or twice per week? I remove mine every night, not hard to do a quick check then, or in the morning when you put it on. It's Texas, it gets hot, I sweat like most people do sometimes. Just a few drops easily pool in the lense and make things blurry. Then there is lint, dust, grass, etc.(I'm outside most of the time.) That said I do have a g20 and m&p core with rm06's on them. I carry the core iwb sometimes and generally have to clean the lense every time after I carry it. Maybe I'm just more anal about clean optics. There seems to be more glare back at the shooter off the rmr lense than I'm used to from other reflex sights. |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 5:54:37 PM EDT
[#15]
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How well do red dots work from retention? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO a laser would be more useful for closer ranges. Most of the time you see shootings they are so close people don't remember even using the sights. I disagree. I am one of the few that likes lasers and have carried them for years but they are extremely limited in their application. Just about worthless in any kind of bright light and slower than conventional sighted fire. In the situation they do work they are fantastic but in my opinion they are a add on tool and not a replacement for sights of any kind. What percentage of incidents happen during clear, bright conditions? I have no idea. Sights and Red dots work pretty much all the time though. Even in overcast gray light laser aren't ideal especially if the target is wearing material that doesn't reflect well. Some fabrics swallow the dots up. Like I said I like lasers and have them on both of my primary carry pieces. They are both Crimson Trace lasers so they are on automatically which I believe to be important. My response was simply stating that lasers are a secondary sightinging system not a primary. How well do red dots work from retention? Don't usually use sights from retention do you or am I missing something?? What's your point? |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 6:45:36 PM EDT
[#16]
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Can you post some videos of how much faster/more accurate you are shooting from retention with a laser vs without? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How well do red dots work from retention? Can you post some videos of how much faster/more accurate you are shooting from retention with a laser vs without? This. Waiting to find a laser spot to on a threat close enough to take your gun away sounds like booking a one-way trip on the Amber-Lamps Express to me. 
Visible lasers are an excellent training tool, a possible non-lethal force option, and a "might not be a bad tool to have in the tool box" as far as defensive use. |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 4:41:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Got this back today.
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Posted: 10/31/2016 4:43:51 PM EDT
[#18]
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Got this back today. https://s14.postimg.org/jk8nf3w41/glock02.jpg https://s14.postimg.org/5f2udan2p/glock03.jpg Very nice, gonna put sights on it ? |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 4:49:42 PM EDT
[#19]
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Very nice, gonna put sights on it ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Got this back today. https://s14.postimg.org/jk8nf3w41/glock02.jpg https://s14.postimg.org/5f2udan2p/glock03.jpg Very nice, gonna put sights on it ? Thanks. I have a more detailed story in the Glock forum section. But to answer the question, not at this time. I need to get some trigger time to determine if suppressors sights will be of any benefit to me. I'll probably buy a threaded barrel for the hell of it. |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 4:53:18 PM EDT
[#20]
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Got this back today. https://s14.postimg.org/jk8nf3w41/glock02.jpg https://s14.postimg.org/5f2udan2p/glock03.jpg |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 4:55:50 PM EDT
[#21]
ALG Six Second Mount makes more sense to me its not moving its not getting beat to shit by recoil.
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Posted: 10/31/2016 4:57:11 PM EDT
[#22]
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How do you like the light and how many lumens is it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Got this back today. https://s14.postimg.org/jk8nf3w41/glock02.jpg https://s14.postimg.org/5f2udan2p/glock03.jpg I like it. Streamlight states it is 100 lumens. It is bright enough for its intended purpose. I wish the battery life was a bit longer (1hr), but I don't run around using it as a flashlight either. |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 6:27:22 PM EDT
[#23]
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This. Waiting to find a laser spot to on a threat close enough to take your gun away sounds like booking a one-way trip on the Amber-Lamps Express to me.
Visible lasers are an excellent training tool, a possible non-lethal force option, and a "might not be a bad tool to have in the tool box" as far as defensive use. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How well do red dots work from retention? Can you post some videos of how much faster/more accurate you are shooting from retention with a laser vs without? This. Waiting to find a laser spot to on a threat close enough to take your gun away sounds like booking a one-way trip on the Amber-Lamps Express to me.
Visible lasers are an excellent training tool, a possible non-lethal force option, and a "might not be a bad tool to have in the tool box" as far as defensive use. And if you aren't sure there's a threat, and if there is a threat, you're not sure how far away they are, but you do know you have to move through tight quarters? Do you suggest as is in the below picture? 
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Posted: 10/31/2016 7:32:55 PM EDT
[#24]
I don't know. I shot a 3 gun match recently with close steel targets and forgot to put on my real glasses, just had sunglasses on. I hit them all in good time and couldn't even see the front sight. Kinda melted into the rear in a big black blur.
Seems to be overkill and extra complexity to me especially at pistol fighting ranges. But I need to try it before I know for sure. I guess if you get a little extra advantage with no downside it's a win. |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 7:38:06 PM EDT
[#25]
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And if you aren't sure there's a threat, and if there is a threat, you're not sure how far away they are, but you do know you have to move through tight quarters? Do you suggest as is in the below picture? http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1062991/thumbs/o-2-GUNS-TRAILER-570.jpg?3 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How well do red dots work from retention? Can you post some videos of how much faster/more accurate you are shooting from retention with a laser vs without? This. Waiting to find a laser spot to on a threat close enough to take your gun away sounds like booking a one-way trip on the Amber-Lamps Express to me.
Visible lasers are an excellent training tool, a possible non-lethal force option, and a "might not be a bad tool to have in the tool box" as far as defensive use. And if you aren't sure there's a threat, and if there is a threat, you're not sure how far away they are, but you do know you have to move through tight quarters? Do you suggest as is in the below picture? http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1062991/thumbs/o-2-GUNS-TRAILER-570.jpg?3 No, I would keep both hands on the gun. In tight spaces elbows can bend and bring the gun in closer to the body, but still in front of the eyes pointing where you're looking. Are you gonna cruise around like this when a threat is in play? 
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Posted: 10/31/2016 9:00:15 PM EDT
[#27]
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No, I would keep both hands on the gun. In tight spaces elbows can bend and bring the gun in closer to the body, but still in front of the eyes pointing where you're looking. Are you gonna cruise around like this when a threat is in play? http://www.thortrains.com/getright/xpistolhipshot1.jpg Nope, he's not protecting his head. |
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Posted: 11/1/2016 10:01:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Also, where the hell is the 6 second mount that works with gen 4 glocks?
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Posted: 11/1/2016 10:54:44 PM EDT
[#29]
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Also, where the hell is the 6 second mount that works with gen 4 glocks? The "Gen 3" ones work with Gen 4. 
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Posted: 11/1/2016 11:35:43 PM EDT
[#30]
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ALG Six Second Mount makes more sense to me its not moving its not getting beat to shit by recoil. Little big for a ccw and holsters are tough |
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Posted: 11/1/2016 11:39:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Shot some 4 inch groups today at 25 yards. It's decent.
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Posted: 11/2/2016 12:39:42 AM EDT
[#32]
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The "Gen 3" ones work with Gen 4. http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p264/sirsqueeboo/P1020559_zpsv8wbubdz.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, where the hell is the 6 second mount that works with gen 4 glocks? The "Gen 3" ones work with Gen 4. http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p264/sirsqueeboo/P1020559_zpsv8wbubdz.jpg Then why does ALG say it only works with gen 3? I was thinking of buying a gen 3 just for the mount 
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Posted: 11/2/2016 1:54:44 AM EDT
[#33]
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I have them on both of my carry guns. Typically carry the compact most often. https://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s172/rugster_photos/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1004.jpg What's the mounting situation and what holster do you use for the compact? |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 1:59:20 AM EDT
[#34]
Come Thursday,
I will be installing an RMR/raised Dawson sights on a Glock G40 10mm for a custo. How long before it starts losing zero/flickering on and off with all the reciprocating slide punishment? 
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Posted: 11/2/2016 2:01:51 AM EDT
[#35]
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The "Gen 3" ones work with Gen 4. http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p264/sirsqueeboo/P1020559_zpsv8wbubdz.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, where the hell is the 6 second mount that works with gen 4 glocks? The "Gen 3" ones work with Gen 4. http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p264/sirsqueeboo/P1020559_zpsv8wbubdz.jpg is that blood on there?? |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 2:21:12 AM EDT
[#36]
Red dot HK is best HK.
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Posted: 11/2/2016 2:25:16 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've shot a couple of pistols with red dots, and personally don't care for them. I get quicker target acquisition and faster follow up shots with regular open sights. Having said that, a lot of people really seem to like them. I've had the same experience. I really want to like them though. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 7:14:11 AM EDT
[#38]
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is that blood on there?? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, where the hell is the 6 second mount that works with gen 4 glocks? The "Gen 3" ones work with Gen 4. http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p264/sirsqueeboo/P1020559_zpsv8wbubdz.jpg is that blood on there?? Likely. Cola Warrior West is rough for us low landers. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 7:20:16 AM EDT
[#39]
What's the longevity for those sights getting beat back and forth on a pistol slide?
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Posted: 11/2/2016 7:52:57 AM EDT
[#40]
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What's the longevity for those sights getting beat back and forth on a pistol slide? Hope it's pretty good, got the dual illuminated version coming to me soon. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 8:19:04 AM EDT
[#41]
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Hope it's pretty good, got the dual illuminated version coming to me soon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's the longevity for those sights getting beat back and forth on a pistol slide? Hope it's pretty good, got the dual illuminated version coming to me soon. whiich one? |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 9:06:15 AM EDT
[#42]
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What's the longevity for those sights getting beat back and forth on a pistol slide? It varies quite a bit. Know a couple high volume competition shooters that have been through several dots due to breakage. Most shooters seem to be fine but I don't think most of them shoot any real volume so it's hard to compare. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 9:54:13 AM EDT
[#43]
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What's the longevity for those sights getting beat back and forth on a pistol slide? Over on Pistol Forum Doc Roberts has a very long thread where he has been using one for the past five years. They've held up well for him so far. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 10:25:19 AM EDT
[#44]
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whiich one? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's the longevity for those sights getting beat back and forth on a pistol slide? Hope it's pretty good, got the dual illuminated version coming to me soon. whiich one? I opted for the big boy..12.9 green triangle. I'm about to start getting rid of all my red stuff, my eyes really like green. 
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Posted: 11/2/2016 3:14:24 PM EDT
[#45]
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It varies quite a bit. Know a couple high volume competition shooters that have been through several dots due to breakage. Most shooters seem to be fine but I don't think most of them shoot any real volume so it's hard to compare. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's the longevity for those sights getting beat back and forth on a pistol slide? It varies quite a bit. Know a couple high volume competition shooters that have been through several dots due to breakage. Most shooters seem to be fine but I don't think most of them shoot any real volume so it's hard to compare. The only way I would do this is with a dual illuminated RMR, and I'd still expect breakage at some point. I'm a big Trijicon fan and have owned enough of their product to see more than one failure-my open bolt subgun ate my RX34 by loosening the lens retaining rings and chipping the glass, I'd imagine an RMR would also suffer at some point. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 3:15:38 PM EDT
[#46]
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I opted for the big boy..12.9 green triangle. I'm about to start getting rid of all my red stuff, my eyes really like green. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's the longevity for those sights getting beat back and forth on a pistol slide? Hope it's pretty good, got the dual illuminated version coming to me soon. whiich one? I opted for the big boy..12.9 green triangle. I'm about to start getting rid of all my red stuff, my eyes really like green. The green is great in the day and gives good target contrast, but the lens tint they have to use is very dark. Might as well be an occluded eye gunsight in the evening and morning hours. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 3:17:26 PM EDT
[#47]
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The green is great in the day and gives good target contrast, but the lens tint they have to use is very dark. Might as well be an occluded eye gunsight in the evening and morning hours. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I opted for the big boy..12.9 green triangle. I'm about to start getting rid of all my red stuff, my eyes really like green. The green is great in the day and gives good target contrast, but the lens tint they have to use is very dark. Might as well be an occluded eye gunsight in the evening and morning hours. Thanks, that is good to know. |
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Posted: 11/25/2016 7:08:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Update for my experience:
I bought a Suarez L-mount to make sure I liked the idea, which I did, so I sent my slide off to Jagerwerks to have my slide cut. I sent it off on Friday of last week and they received it on Monday. I got a shipping notice Wednesday and it delivered today, a day earlier than the estimated Saturday (tomorrow) delivery. I have to say, I'm very impressed with their workmanship and turnaround. I sent my entire slide assembly and the RMR and they installed it and then laser aligned everything, all for $125 shipped back to me. The only thing I wish I had done was purchased one of their sealing plates, as the one I received from Suarez is not compatible with their cut. Seriously, if you want to get your slide cut, send it to Jagerwerks. |
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Posted: 11/25/2016 7:28:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Update for my experience: I bought a Suarez L-mount to make sure I liked the idea, which I did, so I sent my slide off to Jagerwerks to have my slide cut. I sent it off on Friday of last week and they received it on Monday. I got a shipping notice Wednesday and it delivered today, a day earlier than the estimated Saturday (tomorrow) delivery. I have to say, I'm very impressed with their workmanship and turnaround. I sent my entire slide assembly and the RMR and they installed it and then laser aligned everything, all for $125 shipped back to me. The only thing I wish I had done was purchased one of their sealing plates, as the one I received from Suarez is not compatible with their cut. Seriously, if you want to get your slide cut, send it to Jagerwerks. Amazon has them. |
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Posted: 11/25/2016 7:37:09 PM EDT
[#50]
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Amazon has them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Update for my experience: I bought a Suarez L-mount to make sure I liked the idea, which I did, so I sent my slide off to Jagerwerks to have my slide cut. I sent it off on Friday of last week and they received it on Monday. I got a shipping notice Wednesday and it delivered today, a day earlier than the estimated Saturday (tomorrow) delivery. I have to say, I'm very impressed with their workmanship and turnaround. I sent my entire slide assembly and the RMR and they installed it and then laser aligned everything, all for $125 shipped back to me. The only thing I wish I had done was purchased one of their sealing plates, as the one I received from Suarez is not compatible with their cut. Seriously, if you want to get your slide cut, send it to Jagerwerks. Amazon has them. Jagerwerks has them for $10 and free shipping, which saves you $2-5 depending on which item you get from Amazon. |
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