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Posted: 9/25/2016 1:39:29 PM EDT
[#1]
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Doubt a pfd would of helped in that crash, thinking massive blunt force trauma. PFD's are hot, I don't own or wear plates to the range either. I've thrown one on going in a gnarly inlet a few times. Each his own and commend your crew's wearing them. But really hope mandatory wearing never comes up. And a seatbelt might not save you in a car accident, but most people would still wear even if the law didn't require it. You're exaggerating about inflatable PFDs being hot. Here's a typical example. It' not hotter than wearing a belt. My point isn't that you have to wear one. My point is that by telling people it's normal and okay you become part of the problem. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 1:41:25 PM EDT
[#2]
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My point is He died here and come Monday people will be calling for more "Safe" boating laws. We've done this dance before, last summer when two boys drowned in Jupiter. Now back to the story. Perhaps you can point me to the post where someone called for more laws? I've looked through twice, and couldn't find it. What I DO see is people calling for voluntary common sense amongst operators. I understand on THT or elsewhere people probably are already beating the drum. 1/2 or more of them don't really understand or value Freedom either. A PFD doesn't change the laws of nature, defy gravity or save you from getting crushed. If he was ejected from the boat and in to the water, he likely would have been seriously injured and unable to keep himself on the surface. A PFD would bring him to the surface where he could continue to breath. Not breathing kills you quick. He also might have been dead on impact. A PFD doesn't solve everything. Neither does a seatbelt. For minimal effort they do dramatically increase your chances of survival. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 1:42:20 PM EDT
[#3]
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In the daytime photos of the scene posted it looks like there were several light equipped buoys just past the end of the jetty. Makes the question of "Why?" even more problematic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I got a shiny penny to wager that they'll put lights or some other kind of visual aid to navigate them at night. Nevermind everyone else that died there. Gotta do it now because someone celebrated/highly compensated for his ability to throw a ball died there.  In the daytime photos of the scene posted it looks like there were several light equipped buoys just past the end of the jetty. Makes the question of "Why?" even more problematic. There are definitely lit cans past of the end of the jetty that mark the channel. I haven't looked, but I imagine they run all the way to the sea buoy. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 1:43:04 PM EDT
[#4]
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I got a shiny penny to wager that they'll put lights or some other kind of visual aid to navigate them at night. Nevermind everyone else that died there. Gotta do it now because someone celebrated/highly compensated for his ability to throw a ball died there.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 4:09:31 PM EDT
[#5]
I wear an inflatable PFD with my engine's kill switch attached to it when I go out on my boat solo. That wouldn't have helped in this case though.
Odds are speed and alcohol were involved. The interior lights probably didn't help either. I can only imagine how bad the background lights of Miami Beach would be trying to get into Govt Cut at night. When in doubt slow down, get your bearings, and consult your plotter. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 5:12:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wear an inflatable PFD with my engine's kill switch attached to it when I go out on my boat solo. That wouldn't have helped in this case though. Odds are speed and alcohol were involved. The interior lights probably didn't help either. I can only imagine how bad the background lights of Miami Beach would be trying to get into Govt Cut at night. When in doubt slow down, get your bearings, and consult your plotter. I know you know where Belle Pass is. One night I was coming in from Timbalier bay at night up through the pass back into the flotation canal and all I can say is that I am glad I had a good GPS to follow my course back. When you throw some lights in the mix it makes seeing difficult. With those under gunnel LED lights on, I don't see how in the hell he could navigate. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 6:03:47 PM EDT
[#7]
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And a seatbelt might not save you in a car accident, but most people would still wear even if the law didn't require it. You're exaggerating about inflatable PFDs being hot. Here's a typical example. It' not hotter than wearing a belt. My point isn't that you have to wear one. My point is that by telling people it's normal and okay you become part of the problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Doubt a pfd would of helped in that crash, thinking massive blunt force trauma. PFD's are hot, I don't own or wear plates to the range either. I've thrown one on going in a gnarly inlet a few times. Each his own and commend your crew's wearing them. But really hope mandatory wearing never comes up. And a seatbelt might not save you in a car accident, but most people would still wear even if the law didn't require it. You're exaggerating about inflatable PFDs being hot. Here's a typical example. It' not hotter than wearing a belt. My point isn't that you have to wear one. My point is that by telling people it's normal and okay you become part of the problem. If by "most" you mean a majority would wear seat belts, then I'd say you were correct. However, seat belt usage would certainly not be where it is today if not for the laws requiring their use. Look at motorcyclists and their helmets. I see a lot of unhelmeted riders here in IL because it's not the law. I don't ride, but I have had the misfortune of seeing paramedics standing around feeling helpless while somebody's brains leaked out onto the asphalt. I've never been in a boating situation where I felt it was necessary to wear a PFD, but I've also never been on a powerboat in the Atlantic Ocean at 3 am. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 6:08:16 PM EDT
[#8]
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<a href="http://s612.photobucket.com/user/americancheese1/media/1437932533_191fjkr_7fk8f_zps9o73hnep.gif.html" target="_blank">http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt202/americancheese1/1437932533_191fjkr_7fk8f_zps9o73hnep.gif</a> Too soon? LOL!!! |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 6:20:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps you can point me to the post where someone called for more laws? I've looked through twice, and couldn't find it. What I DO see is people calling for voluntary common sense amongst operators. I understand on THT or elsewhere people probably are already beating the drum. 1/2 or more of them don't really understand or value Freedom either. A PFD doesn't change the laws of nature, defy gravity or save you from getting crushed. If he was ejected from the boat and in to the water, he likely would have been seriously injured and unable to keep himself on the surface. A PFD would bring him to the surface where he could continue to breath. Not breathing kills you quick. He also might have been dead on impact. A PFD doesn't solve everything. Neither does a seatbelt. For minimal effort they do dramatically increase your chances of survival. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My point is He died here and come Monday people will be calling for more "Safe" boating laws. We've done this dance before, last summer when two boys drowned in Jupiter. Now back to the story. Perhaps you can point me to the post where someone called for more laws? I've looked through twice, and couldn't find it. What I DO see is people calling for voluntary common sense amongst operators. I understand on THT or elsewhere people probably are already beating the drum. 1/2 or more of them don't really understand or value Freedom either. A PFD doesn't change the laws of nature, defy gravity or save you from getting crushed. If he was ejected from the boat and in to the water, he likely would have been seriously injured and unable to keep himself on the surface. A PFD would bring him to the surface where he could continue to breath. Not breathing kills you quick. He also might have been dead on impact. A PFD doesn't solve everything. Neither does a seatbelt. For minimal effort they do dramatically increase your chances of survival. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 6:25:32 PM EDT
[#10]
The catcher for the Royals wrote a little RIP on his vest today.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 6:45:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Just watched some commentaries on ESPN, a lot of people choked up rightfully so. Seeing their coach, Don Mattingly talk about Jose Fernandez and how he played the game as joyous like a little kid playing it was pretty sad. No doubt, a sad day for sports in Florida if not all of baseball.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 6:49:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Looks scary, so they crashed, maybe ejected and hit on rocks?
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Posted: 9/25/2016 7:19:38 PM EDT
[#13]
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Looks scary, so they crashed, maybe ejected and hit on rocks? The article I read stated two were found under the boat and one on the jetty. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 7:56:58 PM EDT
[#14]
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The article I read stated two were found under the boat and one on the jetty. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Looks scary, so they crashed, maybe ejected and hit on rocks? The article I read stated two were found under the boat and one on the jetty. more than likely what happened was when they hit the jetties they were traveling let's say 40kts for good measure, so probably blunt force trauma, and/or drowning. There isn't much there to keep you in the boat when somthing like that happens. So the vest are there to keep your head above water so you can still breathe when you are unconscious. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:08:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If by "most" you mean a majority would wear seat belts, then I'd say you were correct. However, seat belt usage would certainly not be where it is today if not for the laws requiring their use. Look at motorcyclists and their helmets. I see a lot of unhelmeted riders here in IL because it's not the law. I don't ride, but I have had the misfortune of seeing paramedics standing around feeling helpless while somebody's brains leaked out onto the asphalt. I've never been in a boating situation where I felt it was necessary to wear a PFD, but I've also never been on a powerboat in the Atlantic Ocean at 3 am. First, I'm alive today after a "fatal" motorcycle accident on December 19, 1992 after a 60 mph impact by a 'cager' on my rear wheel - thanks to my helmet. I testified in from of the VA General Assembly and told them the same. And guess what? I'm favor of no helmet laws. The bottom line is that Freedom trumps all. That doesn't make everything somebody may do smart. That's Freedom, though! Laws sculpt behavior. I get that. It doesn't make them moral or consistent with our Freedoms. I don't advocate mandatory life vest laws. The cries of "if it saves one life!" are just as challenging as those that restrict firearms ownership. With that said, I do advocate voluntary life vest use. It's your right to choose. You may choose to go cowboy. So be it. Heralding that as the right and proper and "normal" choice will get my feedback. That is all. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:11:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are laws already on the books Just to be clear - the law states that a PFD must be present for every rider within a vessel. Unless you are underage and/or riding a jetski - there are no requirements you wear a PFD. I'm not suggesting the law should be changed. In fact, I'd fight that suggestion. The laws (carrying of a PFD) aren't particularly relevant since reports suggest nobody was wearing one. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:19:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Too much throttle not enough nav experience.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:20:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Just an FYI for those looking for info - here's the thread on THT
“They did do an initial search and they found three victims — two on top of the water, one underneath the boat and they had unfortunately passed away.” I suspect the accident report will cite many things, but foremost among them will be the use of lights inside the hull - completely blinding the operator. When I run at night I minimize all light of any kind to preserve natural night vision. Here's my MFD at the lowest setting somewhere off Spanish Cay in the Abacos. Note with my display on the lowest possible setting and all instruments turned off I was still completely blind to anything but darkness. Imagine if you had lights at full intensity inside the hull? Nuts. 
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:21:45 PM EDT
[#19]
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Just an FYI for those looking for info - here's the thread on THT “They did do an initial search and they found three victims — two on top of the water, one underneath the boat and they had unfortunately passed away.” I suspect the accident report will cite many things, but foremost among them will be the use of lights inside the hull - completely blinding the operator. When I run at night I minimize all light of any kind to preserve natural night vision. Here's my MFD at the lowest setting somewhere off Spanish Cay in the Abacos. Note with my display on the lowest possible setting and all instruments turned off I was still completely blind to anything but darkness. Imagine if you had lights at full intensity inside the hull? Nuts. http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=84613 that's what I was thinking also....how in the hell do you see anything with those LEDs on. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:24:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Lowrance night mode ftw.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:29:41 PM EDT
[#21]
where's the buoy? where's the buoy? where's the buoy?
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:33:20 PM EDT
[#22]
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that's what I was thinking also....how in the hell do you see anything with those LEDs on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just an FYI for those looking for info - here's the thread on THT “They did do an initial search and they found three victims — two on top of the water, one underneath the boat and they had unfortunately passed away.” I suspect the accident report will cite many things, but foremost among them will be the use of lights inside the hull - completely blinding the operator. When I run at night I minimize all light of any kind to preserve natural night vision. Here's my MFD at the lowest setting somewhere off Spanish Cay in the Abacos. Note with my display on the lowest possible setting and all instruments turned off I was still completely blind to anything but darkness. Imagine if you had lights at full intensity inside the hull? Nuts. http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=84613 that's what I was thinking also....how in the hell do you see anything with those LEDs on. One of the best things about a SAAB (maybe the best, and only good thing...I don't know, never owned one) was that you could shut off all sources of light in the vehicle interior except for the speedometer. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:43:52 PM EDT
[#23]
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One of the best things about a SAAB (maybe the best, and only good thing...I don't know, never owned one) was that you could shut off all sources of light in the vehicle interior except for the speedometer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just an FYI for those looking for info - here's the thread on THT “They did do an initial search and they found three victims — two on top of the water, one underneath the boat and they had unfortunately passed away.” I suspect the accident report will cite many things, but foremost among them will be the use of lights inside the hull - completely blinding the operator. When I run at night I minimize all light of any kind to preserve natural night vision. Here's my MFD at the lowest setting somewhere off Spanish Cay in the Abacos. Note with my display on the lowest possible setting and all instruments turned off I was still completely blind to anything but darkness. Imagine if you had lights at full intensity inside the hull? Nuts. http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=84613 that's what I was thinking also....how in the hell do you see anything with those LEDs on. One of the best things about a SAAB (maybe the best, and only good thing...I don't know, never owned one) was that you could shut off all sources of light in the vehicle interior except for the speedometer. that's pretty cool. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:49:54 PM EDT
[#24]
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Now I will play devil's advocate here. When I go out on the boat I see some incredible crazy shit. Balls out bat shit speed of morans outside of the channel markers. I have seen dozens of accidents, most of them rocks and shoals. Now at night, all I can say is wow. The channel markers are there for a reason. You go slow, you are transitioning from shallow to deep. Now once you are past the channel markers you can accelerate. If you are outside the channel markers and you bottom out, well..... Exactly. Boating is an extremely safe activity. Yet it claims the lives of lots of people who get careless. A few simple truths. Don't drive faster then you can see, and stop. Don't get so wasted you are careless or don't know what your doing. If its dark it pays to invest in a Q-Beam AKA sunlight in a can. When in doubt just slow down. Don't push the weather. People getting killed in a boating accident is a lot like people who get killed by being hit by a train. Sometimes chit happens but for the most part if you are paying attention your completely safe. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:52:57 PM EDT
[#25]
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IIRC, 80%+ of those killed in boating accidents are not wearing a PFD. As unobtrusive as they are today, it makes zero sense to not wear one, ESPECIALLY SO at night. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Even with a smaller outboard that boat would do 35-45 mph, and those jetty rocks aren't moving. i womder if he had a life vest on and was found floating or if he knocked his head on something in the boat? Either way a sad deal. I love boating but you have to always be 100% aware or things like this happen. No one here wears pfd's just the nature of the beast and don't do myself. That's just dumb. Running at night, running in any seas, navigating inlets or running offshore at all - my entire crew wear inflatables. I actually just sat down to read this thread after repacking our emergency kits and PLBs in each of our vests. You may choose not to do it, but it's not anything I would condone or try to convince others that it's normal and okay. When venturing out on liquid that will kill you if you can't stay out of it to breathe, wearing something that keeps you on the surface just seems obvious. IIRC, 80%+ of those killed in boating accidents are not wearing a PFD. As unobtrusive as they are today, it makes zero sense to not wear one, ESPECIALLY SO at night. PFD's wouldn't have saved their lives in this instance. Not running 60+ mph with the interior LED courtesy lights would have though. Sad and preventable. RIP |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 11:01:50 PM EDT
[#26]
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Driving at night with your interior lights on is bad. http://i.imgur.com/ESTwG89.jpg http://i.imgur.com/vKMco4E.jpg http://i.imgur.com/168r0cb.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Pgy7eJb.jpg
Wow, looks like they were about 30-40 feet from missing the rocks and being OK. It also looks to me like they hit the rocks then cartwheeled to the other side. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 11:04:06 PM EDT
[#27]
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where's the buoy? where's the buoy? where's the buoy? I've played that game. 
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