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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:29:43 AM EDT
[#1]
Depends on how many arfcommers you want to take out.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:31:22 AM EDT
[#2]
Not important. Shitty round is shitty. It does nothing better than any bonded or OTM round.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:31:25 AM EDT
[#3]
Or invading gov elements.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:33:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Total Anarchy Mad Max style SHTF is a fantasy. Body armor, particularly rifle rated plates are rare outside military and police. A combat load of 7 magazines + A M2A1 can per rifle should be sufficient. That's 840 rnds packed in bandoliers.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:35:00 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not important. Shitty round is shitty. It does nothing better than any bonded or OTM round. It goes through UHMWPE plates much better. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:37:24 AM EDT
[#6]
easier to just shoot cheap-ish ballistic tip ammo and aim for legs, arms, and whatever, than try to shoot thru body armor on purpose. ( with $1 + m855a1 ammo. )
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:37:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Total Anarchy Mad Max style SHTF is a fantasy. Body armor, particularly rifle rated plates are rare outside military and police. A combat load of 7 magazines + A M2A1 can per rifle should be sufficient. That's 840 rnds packed in bandoliers. This. Truthfully. If you get in a firefight, you will either be killed, the attacker will be killed or you will both retreat after 1 or 2 magazines have been fired. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:42:20 AM EDT
[#8]
You know, if the shit REALLY hits the fan and there are rolling gun battles; most will not live past a handful of engagements. Meaning, the life-span will be about 12 mags tops.
So stop fantasizing that you'll need 20,000 rounds and 250 mags. Chances are, you wont make it past the first 6 mag combat load out. 
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:43:47 AM EDT
[#9]
How many likely recipients of your lead would actually be armored? I think our perception of the proliferation of body armor, and even rifle armor at that, is a bit skewed because a lot of people "here" have it.
That said, I believe you should strive to have the best you can have. If that's 855A1, awesome. It works great on shirtless goblins, too. If that's 193, great. It makes even up-armored basement dwellers think three times before fucking with you, too. If its 9mm, I'm sure there will still be a need for homosexual love in the apocalypse. (I'm kidding, don't get your non-45 panties in a bunch  )
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:45:45 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not important. Shitty round is shitty. It does nothing better than any bonded or OTM round. Go watch a science video |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:48:10 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many likely recipients of your lead would actually be armored? I think our perception of the proliferation of body armor, and even rifle armor at that, is a bit skewed because a lot of people "here" have it. That said, I believe you should strive to have the best you can have. If that's 855A1, awesome. It works great on shirtless goblins, too. If that's 193, great. It makes even up-armored basement dwellers think three times before fucking with you, too. If its 9mm, I'm sure there will still be a need for homosexual love in the apocalypse. (I'm kidding, don't get your non-45 panties in a bunch )You bastid! I reading this with a serious eye, taking note of and agreeing with your premise, and then, BAM, I wet down my keyboard with coffee!  |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:48:52 AM EDT
[#12]
The correct answer
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:51:56 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The correct answer <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/2562EBA4-E4DC-4311-B157-EBC191BB3DFA_zpsqw6lcibn.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/2562EBA4-E4DC-4311-B157-EBC191BB3DFA_zpsqw6lcibn.jpg</a> dude, those are expensive, I hear to shoot them you need to spend a Garand minimum. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:53:44 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or invading gov elements. This. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:55:24 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, if the shit REALLY hits the fan and there are rolling gun battles; most will not live past a handful of engagements. Meaning, the life-span will be about 12 mags tops. So stop fantasizing that you'll need 20,000 rounds and 250 mags. Chances are, you wont make it past the first 6 mag combat load out. I think most people envision that in a SHTF scenario, they'll be strong pointing a location and defending for the duration. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:56:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
dude, those are expensive, I hear to shoot them you need to spend a Garand minimum. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The correct answer <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/2562EBA4-E4DC-4311-B157-EBC191BB3DFA_zpsqw6lcibn.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/2562EBA4-E4DC-4311-B157-EBC191BB3DFA_zpsqw6lcibn.jpg</a> dude, those are expensive, I hear to shoot them you need to spend a Garand minimum. BAN HIM |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:56:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, if the shit REALLY hits the fan and there are rolling gun battles; most will not live past a handful of engagements. Meaning, the life-span will be about 12 mags tops. So stop fantasizing that you'll need 20,000 rounds and 250 mags. Chances are, you wont make it past the first 6 mag combat load out. Thank God, that 7th mag was hurting my back. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 9:59:02 AM EDT
[#18]
"Having ammo" will be important. No one will care what kind.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:04:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, if the shit REALLY hits the fan and there are rolling gun battles; most will not live past a handful of engagements. Meaning, the life-span will be about 12 mags tops. So stop fantasizing that you'll need 20,000 rounds and 250 mags. Chances are, you wont make it past the first 6 mag combat load out. way to rain on my parade buddy.. 
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:04:40 AM EDT
[#20]
SHTF?
Well I suppose that yes, ammo will be important but more so it'll be critical to have a bunch of your best friends similarially armed and trained. Basic load of good OTM, DBAL, set of NODs and a supressor for all will dial up the fun factor. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:05:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Seriously? 100%
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:09:23 AM EDT
[#22]
M855 and M855A1 will make good barter fodder because it's nothing more than spank ammo at best
If you want serious ammo, get yourself some Mk318/SOST or some Federal LE223T3 |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:12:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many likely recipients of your lead would actually be armored? I think our perception of the proliferation of body armor, and even rifle armor at that, is a bit skewed because a lot of people "here" have it. That said, I believe you should strive to have the best you can have. If that's 855A1, awesome. It works great on shirtless goblins, too. If that's 193, great. It makes even up-armored basement dwellers think three times before fucking with you, too. If its 9mm, I'm sure there will still be a need for homosexual love in the apocalypse. (I'm kidding, don't get your non-45 panties in a bunch ) |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:12:59 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, if the shit REALLY hits the fan and there are rolling gun battles; most will not live past a handful of engagements. Meaning, the life-span will be about 12 mags tops. So stop fantasizing that you'll need 20,000 rounds and 250 mags. Chances are, you wont make it past the first 6 mag combat load out. You just have to be motivated to get past the 6th. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:13:28 AM EDT
[#25]
Why do people call m855 shitty? Is there better rounds, of course but our military has dropped dozens of people with it. Its probably people using it in a 10in sbr.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:14:54 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do people call m855 shitty? Is there better rounds, of course but our military has dropped dozens of people with it. Its probably people using it in a 10in sbr. good point, often what we call the worst, is often just sub optimal, or not as good. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:17:19 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
easier to just shoot cheap-ish ballistic tip ammo and aim for legs, arms, and whatever, than try to shoot thru body armor on purpose. ( with $1 + m855a1 ammo. ) Srsly? Please, reconsider this post. "Aim for legs/arms/whatever" is at cross purposes with center of mass training. It's not that simple. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:18:47 AM EDT
[#28]
Perpetrator rounds? Oh, I gotta get me some of those!
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:19:11 AM EDT
[#29]
7.62x51mm is better millimeter
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:19:35 AM EDT
[#30]
FYI all rounds are "perpetrator rounds" if SHTF.
Even Wolf. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:22:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FYI all rounds are "perpetrator rounds" if SHTF.
Even Wolf. +1 its a "whats in my stash" thats a good ammo
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:24:36 AM EDT
[#32]
If SHTF, I'll be making tracks for the hills with my family, not looking to get into gun fights. Light and fast. Engagements with armed adversaries would likely be limited.
I'm thinking that most well armed and equipped individuals will be friend rather than foe. Oh, and this shit is only in GD's wet dreams. The Great Depression is more likely what we'll see again. There were no roaming gun fights. Sorry guys.... |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:26:17 AM EDT
[#33]
Neither are punching through level 4 ceramics.
Which is what everyone but cheap bastards and idiots will wear. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:28:09 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BAN HIM Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The correct answer <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/2562EBA4-E4DC-4311-B157-EBC191BB3DFA_zpsqw6lcibn.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/2562EBA4-E4DC-4311-B157-EBC191BB3DFA_zpsqw6lcibn.jpg</a> dude, those are expensive, I hear to shoot them you need to spend a Garand minimum. BAN HIM Hey I thought it was decent. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:28:52 AM EDT
[#35]
Didn't we just do this and come to the conclusion that everyone needs at least 2 battle rifles because they would be the best choice in a SHTF scenario?
And since M855 won't work in a 7.62 battle rifle you need exactly zero M855 ammo. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:30:48 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Srsly? Please, reconsider this post. "Aim for legs/arms/whatever" is at cross purposes with center of mass training. It's not that simple. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
easier to just shoot cheap-ish ballistic tip ammo and aim for legs, arms, and whatever, than try to shoot thru body armor on purpose. ( with $1 + m855a1 ammo. ) Srsly? Please, reconsider this post. "Aim for legs/arms/whatever" is at cross purposes with center of mass training. It's not that simple. not saying to NOT aim center mass... just saying if center mass hits are not working, might be time to aim for something else.
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:32:13 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither are punching through level 4 ceramics. Which is what everyone but cheap bastards and idiots will wear. 
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:33:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
not saying to NOT aim center mass... just saying if center mass hits are not working, might be time to aim for something else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
easier to just shoot cheap-ish ballistic tip ammo and aim for legs, arms, and whatever, than try to shoot thru body armor on purpose. ( with $1 + m855a1 ammo. ) Srsly? Please, reconsider this post. "Aim for legs/arms/whatever" is at cross purposes with center of mass training. It's not that simple. not saying to NOT aim center mass... just saying if center mass hits are not working, might be time to aim for something else. Dick shots FTW. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:33:19 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7.62x51mm is better millimeter  ....You Sir are a gentleman.....and speak the truth ! 
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:34:28 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
not saying to NOT aim center mass... just saying if center mass hits are not working, might be time to aim for something else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
easier to just shoot cheap-ish ballistic tip ammo and aim for legs, arms, and whatever, than try to shoot thru body armor on purpose. ( with $1 + m855a1 ammo. ) Srsly? Please, reconsider this post. "Aim for legs/arms/whatever" is at cross purposes with center of mass training. It's not that simple. not saying to NOT aim center mass... just saying if center mass hits are not working, might be time to aim for something else. That's fair. If you shoot someone several times in the same spot to no effect, try something different. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:35:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Truthfully. If you get in a firefight, you will either be killed, the attacker will be killed or you will both retreat after 1 or 2 magazines have been fired. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Total Anarchy Mad Max style SHTF is a fantasy. Body armor, particularly rifle rated plates are rare outside military and police. A combat load of 7 magazines + A M2A1 can per rifle should be sufficient. That's 840 rnds packed in bandoliers. This. Truthfully. If you get in a firefight, you will either be killed, the attacker will be killed or you will both retreat after 1 or 2 magazines have been fired. Both me and my bud have level 3+ plates. so I don't think its very rare in the gun owning world. the cost of armor and the availability make it a no brainer. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:46:36 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Having ammo" will be important. No one will care what kind. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:53:22 AM EDT
[#43]
M855 is shitty anti-armor ammo.
It does NOT go through armor any better than other commonly available ammo. The "PENETRATOR" term is a marketing term used to sell this stuff to customers. One of the original requirements for the ammo was penetration of a k-pot at 600 meters. They were having stabilization issues with early versions at that distance so it would not RELIABLY impact the helmet at a perfect 90 degrees to guarantee penetration. To add stability they needed to lengthen the projectile while maintaining 62gr weight. Obviously you cannot make the bullet longer and still fill with lead and stay at 62. Light bulb went on and someone thought to replace a section of lead with a lighter commonly available material - steel - and the SS109/M855 was born. The steel has nothing to do with punching through a target except to change the flight characteristics and add long range stability by making the bullet longer. It is soft steel anyway. Anyone that has shot steel targets with 5.56 has certainly noticed that M855 has a tough time getting through while M193 drills nice holes. Speed is king in penetration and M193 has it all over M855 in speed. If you want to drill through body armor, load light weight solid copper bullets at high velocity. Lightweight 5.56 has another advantage of universal weapon compatibility. It will work with any twist barrel from 1:7 to 1:14 in any weather. M855 will work only in 1:7 to 1:9 reliably. Anything slower and you see tumbling at short ranges - even worse in cold weather. I shot a match with my older 1:12 G33 and all I had on hand was M855. At 25 yards I was getting a lot of sideways strikes in targets. M855 is good ammo in that it is sealed from the elements and guaranteed to go bang. It has a long storage life. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:55:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
easier to just shoot cheap-ish ballistic tip ammo and aim for legs, arms, and whatever, than try to shoot thru body armor on purpose. ( with $1 + m855a1 ammo. ) Well said indeed. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:57:59 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perpetrator rounds? Oh, I gotta get me some of those! Shit (LOL). Should have had moar coffee. fixed. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:58:17 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
dude, those are expensive, I hear to shoot them you need to spend a Garand minimum. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The correct answer <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/2562EBA4-E4DC-4311-B157-EBC191BB3DFA_zpsqw6lcibn.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/2562EBA4-E4DC-4311-B157-EBC191BB3DFA_zpsqw6lcibn.jpg</a> dude, those are expensive, I hear to shoot them you need to spend a Garand minimum. CMP was selling it for $65.,00 per can a few years ago. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 10:58:25 AM EDT
[#47]
Slow load double tap.
Next one is to the head. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 11:00:10 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
dude, those are expensive, I hear to shoot them you need to spend a Garand minimum. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The correct answer <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/2562EBA4-E4DC-4311-B157-EBC191BB3DFA_zpsqw6lcibn.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/2562EBA4-E4DC-4311-B157-EBC191BB3DFA_zpsqw6lcibn.jpg</a> dude, those are expensive, I hear to shoot them you need to spend a Garand minimum. CMP was selling it for $65.00 per can a few years ago. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 11:00:13 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, if the shit REALLY hits the fan and there are rolling gun battles; most will not live past a handful of engagements. Meaning, the life-span will be about 12 mags tops. So stop fantasizing that you'll need 20,000 rounds and 250 mags. Chances are, you wont make it past the first 6 mag combat load out. I wish (wonder) that more people understood this. Unless you're part of an "organized militia" , the lone wolf or very small group will not fair well in a firefight.
EE is the order of the day, and a .308 battle rifle will be the albatross around many a neck. Light and fast, silent and invisible. I would even go as far to say a suppressed 10/22 or bolt gun would be far more advantageous to the E&E crowd than a full power rifle. Head shots silent and deadly. But you'll have to be close. And not many folks have the stomach for that. |
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Posted: 9/25/2016 11:02:08 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Given the availability of body armor, should preps include a stash of M885/M885A1 (to include a commercial equivalent) penetrator rounds? And if so, how much, percentage wise, should be stocked? If you don't think this type of ammo should be stocked, please elaborate in your finest GD fashion. edit: fixed spelling. M885? Is that moar betterer than M855? |
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