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Posted: 4/30/2001 3:36:02 AM EDT
situation? It could now more than ever happen, in this emerging POLICE STATE OF AMERICA! How much ammo? What about food? Water? Medical supplies? Have you cached everything you need? "If so don't let the cat out of the bag!" Give it some thought now, not when the SHTF for then it will be too late! What will you do with all your other weapons, even those collector pieces? Will you barter them, or? DO YOU EVEN HAVE A CHANCE?
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 4:13:38 AM EDT
Stay in place. All my things are at my home and I have no place to run. Besides, running is a good way to get shot by others. :) I just need everything other than guns and ammo.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 6:25:28 AM EDT
I'm under control at this point.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 6:29:49 AM EDT
I tell my wife that I would need at least 10 .22s for foraging, and at least an equal amount of shotguns, rifles, handguns, etc. Now to find web gear to carry all that! [;)]
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 7:42:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2001 7:47:16 AM EDT by GLOCKshooter]
When "going mobile" consider carrying a Glock .40 loaded and ready, with a 9mm conversion barrel, a .357 conversion barrel, and a 9mm magazine in your pockets, pack, vehicle, whatever. You can now shoot 9mm, one of the most widely available pistol cartriges, .357 sig which some LE agencies are switching to and that uses the .40 mags anyway, and .40, which is a great round and a lot of LE carry, meaning in a SHTF scenario there will be a lot out on the street. all this while using up the weight of one steel frame pistol, and not much more bulk. BTW I am not anticipating the same SHTF scenario. Most LEO I know would not turn against the general population en masse for any duration no matter what their orders were. I'm more concerned about rioting type situations (Cleveland, L.A.), localized shortage situations (energy, food, water), and weather related emergencies (hurricane evacuations, floods, ice storms, etc.).
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 7:43:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 8:30:23 AM EDT
I carry 4 guns at work now: Glock 19, SW442, 870 & Colt M16A3 converted to semi auto only (Damn Armorers).
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 9:11:32 AM EDT
I would only carry two guns. My beretta 92 and a rifle of the same caliber as my enemy. As for food and water. Live off the land and carry tablets and iodine.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 2:47:57 PM EDT
OK, this has drifted into a conversation more of what guns, rather than the other stuff... but I'll chime in anyways!!! Glock 22 (.40) w/ backup 9mm barrel and mags as mentioned .223 rifles 12 ga. shotguns The shotguns, IMHO, come earlier than the rifles, as the shotgun is a more versatile weapon than anything else out there... 1. Cycling the weapon itself, gets attention 2. Close range anti-person 3. Bird / small game gun 4. Deer / medium game gun 5. Medium range (25 yds) anti-person w/ buckshot 6. Long range (100 yds) anti person w/ slug 7. Car stopper (slug time!) 8. Specialty ammo (heh heh heh!) 9. You name it... You can go defensive or offensive, you can eat or keep from being eaten, you can teach or learn it quickly, with no fuss. Once you have a Remington 870 at $200 or so, then buy the rest of your guns. Of course, if you are here, we presume you have your AR already...
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 2:52:36 PM EDT
Everyone who prepared for Y2K are already light years ahead.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 2:53:50 PM EDT
Imbroglio will be carrying his 10/22 and .38 along with his Rosy Palms membership card.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 2:57:06 PM EDT
Uhh, since when do we need a membership card for ROSY PALM?
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 3:00:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LawDawg: (Damn Armorers).
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LOL Being an armorer I convinced my Chief to leave ours auto and train the Officers. I pointed out the cost to convert them was more then the cost to train. That way if some fruitcakes decide they want our ammo for thier pocket full of glock barrels we can persuade them to shop elswhere. Hunter out...
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 3:04:19 PM EDT
How many guns can you carry? Realistically, not enough! A weapon needs support, ammunition, mags, cleaning supplies, spare parts,etc. This adds up quickly! I'm not a SHTF guy, I've never prepared a bug out rig. But I know how much stuff you need to keep a weapon and it's operator running. And it gets heavy fast!
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 3:04:59 PM EDT
Training? How the heck did you get Admin to buy into THAT???!!!! Please, I NEED TO KNOW!!!
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 3:10:48 PM EDT
I would say an AR and a shotgun would be valuable, but 10/22's and .22 pistols would be what I wanted to have. In a real SHTF scenario getting ammo would be a big problem, and it would probably be worth more than its weight in gold. So you have to buy it before the situation to be safe. I could get 20,000 rounds of .22 or a few thousand rounds of higher power ammo. The .22 just has so much more going for it, it is quiet and easily silenced, ammo is very light, cheap enough to seriously stock up. And a .22 wound would be just as deadly as a .223 if you could not get to the hospital. As for all the other stuff, that's what the guns are for: just remember who is a liberal and who voted for gun control and steal their supplies[:)]
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 3:11:01 PM EDT
Why do you people keep making fun of me just because I am less fortunate than you?
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 3:12:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Charmedlyfe: Training? How the heck did you get Admin to buy into THAT???!!!! Please, I NEED TO KNOW!!!
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I will admit it only lasted 4 years. Now the Mayor of our fair city F@cked us on our budget. That is one of the main reasons I am leaving. I don't want blood on my hands because we could not train. Hunter out...
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 9:04:46 PM EDT
Realistically 2. Sidearm (pistol or revolver) Long gun. You need to determine what your specific needs are based on your location, climate, number of people with you, etc. I guesstimate 1K of rounds per weapon - minimum, and 12 mags per also. .22's are an absolute must. Next you need to determine who or what your enemy is. This includes basic survival needs. Food, water, heat, etc. I would say basic needs preparation should begin with natural disaster plans for 3 to 5 days of total existing without any outside support. Do not forget our food supply chain is actually rather fragile and has at most 1 days of supplies on hand at all times. Your enemy could be heat, cold, hungry neighbors, looters and scavengers, etc., not just other equiped and armed survivers, foreign troops. Weapons acquisition would not be a problem if really bad SHTF scenerios occured as the unprepared would die off within a week or so and you just go and pick their weapons up. The larger the urban area the worse it will be. I did a lot of preparing for Y2K and have not regretted it a bit. The generator system is really nice. Have had 2 total power outages from severe storms since then and have kept truckin' right along. Just can't run the central air conditioner, though. It gives you an very interesting since of independence. [blue]Blue207[/blue]
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 9:19:28 PM EDT
On my body? Carry two, my HKUSP9F, and my soon to be l/w 16" m4gery. I'll be carrying extra loaded mags, food, water(two canteens), socks and undies, and all of my other suvival gear, like matches, snakebite kit, water purification tablets, knife as with others. No way I would carry a third gun, considering all of the other stuff it takes to survive. And don't tell me that I don't need it, what do even our elite forces go on long range missions with? A 40+ pound ruck of survival gear. I can't carry that much, so I have to pick my "stay alive in the meantime" gear well. Better a canteen of clean water, or two more MRE's, than a shotgun, and hope that I'll find game or clean water somewhere.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 9:19:45 PM EDT
a few end thoughts of my philosophy..... 1) food and water take up ammo and support space/weight. these items can be EASILY taken at gunpoint from the suburban/yuppie/UNARMED liberals... 2) GOOD medical supplies are a MUST! stitches, IV, dental AND bandgaes will be a no further supplied item... 3)I am with paul vs irvine on weapon selection.... a shotgun will NOT help if you are pinned down or being sniped... As I am in a city environment, I will be acquiring armored(THANKS BRINKS) transport QUICKLY to relocate to more friendly terrritory/terrain..... I further find Paul correct on the mindset/forethought statement.... anyone...WILL....
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 9:31:19 PM EDT
If I was running around in a hurry I would carry only my ar-15 and as much ammo as I can carry W/ my B.O.B.. I don't want to be in a situation where I have to decide which gun am I gonna use. I want a one gun for all occasions.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 9:31:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2001 9:32:25 PM EDT by Beagles747]
"How many guns can you carry?" (If the SHTF right now) Realistically I could carry 6 guns. I would have a medium sized duffle bag with about 500-1000 rds of .22lr,about 60 rds of 12 gauge various loads,200 rds of .380,400rds of .45 auto and 1000 rds of .223. (Did my duffle bag break yet?) ammo is for what I would be carrying: My H&K USP 45 holstered to my hip(5/10rd mags) My Sig .380 down the front of my pants inside belt holster.(4/7rd mags) My Ruger MKII would be in bag. (because I don't have a way to holster it yet)(6/10rd mags) My little Taurus PT-22 would be in pocket or backside. My Mossberg 590 w/side saddle would be slung around my shoulder. My Bushmaster M4 with 100rd Beta C Mag will be in hand, tactically slung. Will be carrying at least 12 fully loaded 30rd mags some in the duffle possibly and some in mag pouches. Anyone need some mag pouches? [url]https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campId=5337559805&toolId=10001&customId=j3805yw2lf00zk8a001ni&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Faw-cgi%2FeBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1139821751[url/]
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 2:55:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2001 3:52:27 AM EDT by andreusan]
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u: I would only carry two guns. My beretta 92 and a rifle of the same caliber as my enemy. As for food and water. Live off the land and carry tablets and iodine.
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This is good, a few words say it all!
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 3:18:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By andreusan:
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u: I would only carry two guns. My beretta 92 and a rifle of the same caliber as my enemy. As for food and water. Live off the land and carry tablets and iodine.
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This is good, a few words say is all!
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HEY ENEMY, what caliber are you shooting at me? I need to run to my cache and get the same weapon and ammo. THANKS!
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 5:40:58 AM EDT
I think 2 handguns of the same load(even though I have only one) one on each hip and 5 mags each + 200 more rounds 1 tactical rifle (AR) 7 mags 5 30r 2 20r 1,500 more rounds 1 hunting gun, (shotgun, maybe a marlin guide gun or a Remington m7 in 308 or 7mm-08. 200 rounds for that. Big box of water proof matches Water filter, 3 canteens, first aide kit and a pocket fisherman with plenty of line, lures and hooks. While this sound like a lot I fully intend to have at least 2 other people with me who could carry any other things. With my job I am in enough shape to carry such a load.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 5:46:16 AM EDT
Don't forget novacaine, painkillers and antibiotics. Don't want to have all those guns and die from a knife wound.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 5:48:14 AM EDT
Also forgot some MRE's can't be getting hungry either.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 11:12:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: a few end thoughts of my philosophy..... 3)I am with paul vs irvine on weapon selection.... a shotgun will NOT help if you are pinned down or being sniped... As I am in a city environment,
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CavVet, I don't think I would leave off the rifles in place of a shotgun, I think that if one has no guns, the first option is a shottie. Then build from there. While you can get sniped, or pinned down, there are many other factors in a SHTF scenario. SHTF is a severe scenario, beyond just a day or two combatting the locals (for which the universal language of a shotgun being pumped works wonders). You still have the long term implications, everything outside of 3 weeks. You must be able to hunt ANYTHING to eat. .223 will take out a small deer, and a few other nice things, but birds are plenty, and you can't hit them with a rifle. Rabbits will turn to mush with a high-power rifle. And it goes from there. Can your rifle stop a car? Can you fire one shot and basically tear down a door in your way? Don't discount the shotgun too much. I know I won't!
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 11:53:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GWIGG: Also forgot some MRE's can't be getting hungry either.
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Yeah, havin' an MRE around keeps me from wanting to eat to. [puke]
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 12:02:37 PM EDT
if the SHTF we be in total anarachy as for guns id take as many 22's i can get get my hands on and a crapload of ammo and the other ones prevuly mentained a 22 would work get for hunting becouse it would be survival poaching i dont want to alert people to where the hell i am
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 1:25:54 PM EDT
Originally posted by Imbrog|io: Everyone who prepared for Y2K are already light years ahead.
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Dang! (sniff sniff) My Y2K survival emergency stash was prepared to handle most SHTF scenarios I could think of. I had enough supplies to last independently for a long, long time. Had enough dehydrated food and water to the wahzoo! Also had a bunch of others essential supplies. Since Y2K was a big non-event, I ended up selling or giving away most of my supplies because I needed to make room in my house. Nowdays I have only enough to last for a camping trip weekend lasting about 2-3 days. Oh great!...a Tec-9 Jamomatic and some supplies to my name. I could kick myself! But hey!... I did end up buying a really cool voice-interactive GPS that could guide me to any street in the U.S. by voice. [:D] -RoadDog (If SHTF, I'm be out there for handouts)
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 4:55:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 5:21:14 PM EDT
Troy you are my kind of people. Bugging out will NOT be an option for most. Why not? Do you think that anyone will voluntarily walk away from their largest investment? Roger that on the hiways-to-parking lots. I live in bug-out country, so the where-am-I-gonna-how-m-I-gonna-get-there question no longer exists. Weapons? Any trip off the property will be a combat patrol, with carbine, ammo, sidearm, webgear, etc. Specifically a 16" lightweight Bushy and a P89. James Wesley, Rawles is an excellent writer, he make the point that if you are to survive a SHTF scenario, you need to be WELL prepared, WELL ahead of time. You can't be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo........[sniper]
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 5:22:04 PM EDT
Troy you are my kind of people. Bugging out will NOT be an option for most. Why not? Do you think that anyone will voluntarily walk away from their largest investment? Roger that on the hiways-to-parking lots. I live in bug-out country, so the where-am-I-gonna-how-m-I-gonna-get-there question no longer exists. Weapons? Any trip off the property will be a combat patrol, with carbine, ammo, sidearm, webgear, etc. Specifically a 16" lightweight Bushy and a P89. James Wesley, Rawles is an excellent writer, he make the point that if you are to survive a SHTF scenario, you need to be WELL prepared, WELL ahead of time. You can't be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo........[sniper]
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 6:20:26 PM EDT
Ok here it is, the perfect set-up for a SHTF senario, Your best bet would be to stay at home where all of your stuff is, but if you had to move, here is what I would take, IN A FANNY PACK: 1, Pur small pump water purifier 2, Basic first aid kit w/ cravat bandage small hydrogen peroxide bottle, band aids, pain killer, perscriptions, and other stuff 3, 500 rounds of .22LR 4, Space blanket, even though it is silver they are very useful 5, Pocket knife 6, 3 butane lighters 7, bowl + fork and spoon As far as weapons... my side arm would be a Ruger Mark 2 in .22LR my main weapon would be a Magnum Research 10/22 .22LR rifle with Barracuda stock + carbon barrel + Aimpoint Comp M sight. Also a hatchet, and gen 3 NVGs WITHOUT IR illumination... it can be seen by other NVGs there is probably alot of other stuff that we could use but since I wrote this up in 4 minutes I probably forgot some things.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 6:38:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 12:11:05 AM EDT
Interesting thread. So far, I've seen a three good points I hadn't considered before. CavVet mentioned a Brink's armored car. It never occurred to me that it might be useful in a SHTF, but four nights of the week, I have an armored van, I drive for work, in my garage. It has a huge fuel tank, and enough cases of 38 special in it to fight a small war. At worst, I could siphon the diesel out to use in a kerosene heater. I'm ready 4/7 of the time to be able to flee or use as a safe room, if I had to. Troy mentioned medicine. That will be a major problem for many, many people, because the DEA limits many prescriptions to a 30 day supply. If something major happens, many of us will be dead by the time everything gets back to normal. I spent hurricane Hugo in downtown Charleston, SC. I had three weeks worth of two different drugs I have to take. I thought that would be more than enough. Even in a place where civilization was back normal in less than a week only a 100 miles away, it was still difficult to find medicine. A member of the state national guard went to one of the few open drugstores to pick it up for me. Note, the pharmacist didn't ask for a prescription. It's my guess will be if you can find an open drug store, you won't have a problem with not having a prescription. ;) I just need to figure-out a way to get a month ahead on my prescriptions. Also, I asked my doctor for next best medications to substitute for my condition. For example, he suggested aspirin as a substitute for my blood thinner. Getting more ahead (somehow if you can) and finding substitutes is very good advice. Troy also mentioned gas. Specifically, he said that around day 3 the gas stations will sell out. That's right, without those tankers refilling the tanks, gas stations run-out very quickly. One of my company's clients was a chain of convenience stores, so I visited their stores atleast once a day. Their dozen, or so, truck drivers quit one day, and it wasn't even a full day before some of the shops ran-out of regular. In an emergency, I couldn't imagine their gas reserves lasting long at all. I have oil heat, so if I had to, I think the van would run-off of it. That's 800 gallons of fuel in addition to its 120. You guys keep talking about MRE's. I have never understood the point of buying MRE's. Most people I know have so many cans of food they'll never eat, unless they have to, that there's no reason to buy more to store. You might not like peas, canned meat, beans, yams, certain flavors of soup, etc., but in most cabinets I've seen, there's lots that will never get eaten under normal circumstances. The MRE's I've seen are water-poor (I got out of the Army long before they started using them, so there might be others I haven't seen). They take water to prepare. A can of soup (yes it will be strong), green beans, or even peas will provide you with liquid versus some of the MRE's taking water to prepare or to simply make edible. I guess it depends on where you live, but the closest two streams to me are on the other sides of major roads, so water would be a concern for me.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 3:36:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 8:55:32 PM EDT
If i have to travel my Little Red Waggon is sure gona be loaded, may be i need a shopping cart to. Yea thats it a shopping cart will make me mobile. Lets see how mutch beer can you put in a shopping cart?
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 9:27:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u: I would only carry two guns. My beretta 92 and a rifle of the same caliber as my enemy. As for food and water. Live off the land and carry tablets and iodine.
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I have at least one rifle in each of the calibers of my potential enemies. As far as food and water go, I plan on doing the same, live off the land. I'm not really into hoarding food, and game is extremely plentiful around here. If it ever does get scarce, along with pilfering the enemies ammo, I'll take their food. [:)]
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 9:47:54 PM EDT
SHTF? Let's see. I'd strap on my blackhawk omega iv vest with tactical thigh rig for my glock 21 and can carry 360 rounds of .223, all in real nice clips with mag-puls on them. Then I'd grab my Bushmaster and slap in jungle rigged set of 30's. I'd then throw my MAC 11 /9 in my pack with eight 32rd mags of 9mm and my smoke bombs and home-made toys-o-death, along with a fifty round bandolier loaded with triple ought buck 12 gauge shells for my Mossberg with the Sure-fire and folding stock. If that didn't work I'd cry and call the Marines. SAMHAIN44
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 9:59:24 PM EDT
I am fortunate to live in a small, mountain town. The people I work with (in a restaraunt) are all armed or useful to me in some way. My boss also owns 3 auto repair shops,all staffed by people that are like family, and heavily armed. Not to mention my actual family and circle of friends. SHTF, we are taking care of our own. We don't need bug out kits,but have prepared for the possibility. Retired USMC Force Recon, retired Navy, Deputy Sheriffs, IPCS and IDPA shooters,hunters, and just run of the mill PATRIOTS. Make the right friends now and your life will be a hell of alot easier if SHTF.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 10:38:17 PM EDT
two maybe three
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 3:11:32 AM EDT
OK A shopping cart full of Novacaine. Maybe SHTF will come in Mushroom season. Wate I got make room for my HI Point 9mm. Every one knows the Hi Point is the best weapon ever maied. Allso a can or two of Spagetyoos.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 3:13:35 PM EDT
Well, guys I would probably take my Beretta 92 and perhaps a Springfield M6. And let my husband hump the rest. Also, no mre's I would rather have heater-meals. But, in all serious this would be a major problem for alot of people. You see I am on a kidney dialysis machine everyday for 10 hrs a day, when Y2K was going on my husband went out a brought a generator because he was very worried about electrical failure. This is only one small problem in a world full of many. Good luck to everyone if this scenio ever happens. Mrs. DieselDoctor [:)]
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 5:03:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 6:12:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy:
Originally Posted By critter_FR: As far as food and water go, I plan on doing the same, live off the land. I'm not really into hoarding food, and game is extremely plentiful around here. If it ever does get scarce, along with pilfering the enemies ammo, I'll take their food. [:)]
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You'd starve or be killed. And many scenarios would themselves prevent you from "living off the land". Floods, fires, hurricanes, earthquakes, and many other problems (that don't even involve financial/government meltdown) would prevent you from surviving very long. But you have to make your own choices, I guess. -Troy
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Before Y2K I was reading a lot of similar posts about SHTF and living off of the land. Someone posted about his grandfather talking about the great depression and how it was hard to find a deer much less a lot of other animals as they had been thinned out early. Does anyone know if this is true or how true it is?
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 6:15:54 PM EDT
Delta elite...Armalite a10......the rest is MINOR.............[frag]
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