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Posted: 8/28/2016 3:17:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Patents protect an idea, but they do nothing to stifle competing ideas. I want to build a machine for the wood working industry that is better than all the competing machines. If all those other companies can just copy my system and make their own, I'm keeping my idea to myself. Every day I do so it costs my industry hundreds of thousands of dollars in excess labor costs. Acquiring a patent does nothing to hinder the consumer from choosing a less expensive and less effective solution. My solution is my property, just as my mind is my property. No one is entitled to my property. One of the very few constitutional roles of government is protecting private property. I'm not surprised some people cannot comprehend the difference between private property and government controlled monopolies. Yup. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 3:21:58 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm going to keep posting this because either people don't read, can't do research or are just caught up in the media hysteria...
Milan does not have a monopoly! There is a comparable product on the market. Adrenaclick is an epinephrine auto injector sold in 2 packs and is very similar to the branded EpiPen. Since it is not the exact same, even considered a generic medication, there can't be a direct switch at the pharmacy level without the patient or doctors auth. Either way, people who keep spouting off this monopoly stuff are just plain wrong, ignorant, or perpetuating a lie. Go to Goodrx.com and look up epinephrine auto injector and you will see the Adrenaclick option and pricing for your zip code. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 3:30:57 PM EDT
[#3]
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You guys are cutting into Manchins re-election fund. He's going to need every penny of that for his retirement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If that shit is true, I think there need to be some public tar and feathering for those involved. I don't really care for this 2 - 3 years down the road a sentencing is determined. 
You guys are cutting into Manchins re-election fund. He's going to need every penny of that for his retirement. Daughter's earnings went from $2M to $19M in a few years. She can kick in a few buck for Daddy. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 3:42:05 PM EDT
[#4]
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Does it hurt? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do away with patents. Problem solved. Does it hurt? The stupid don't know that they are stupid - it only hurts the others who have to deal with it. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 4:31:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Instead of an Epipen, someone can spend $20 for epinephrine and a syringe.
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:33:12 PM EDT
[#6]
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Don't worry, scro' Lots of teeners are leading kickass lives. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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16er as fuck. All teeners are teener as hell. I resemble that remark.  Don't worry, scro' Lots of teeners are leading kickass lives. My sisters a teener. She's a pilot now. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:40:47 PM EDT
[#7]
On the subject of patents, I highly recommend reading Against Intellectual Property by Stephan Kinsella.
I was very much pro-IP before reading it, and it made me do a complete 180 on the topic. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:42:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a pretty long article to say what anyone with two brain cells could have guessed: government protection is keeping competitors from bringing a competing product to market. This. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:43:47 PM EDT
[#9]
The company is a Clinton Foundation donor.
It just keeps getting better and better. http://nypost.com/2016/08/25/company-that-price-gouged-epipen-is-clinton-foundation-donor/ http://www.allenbwest.com/analytical-economist/hillary-blasts-epipen-price-hike-heres-shes-not-telling |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:50:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love all these big government socialist bitching about a problem that big government policies inherently created. That's the beauty of this particular issue... It's not the evil Koch bothers. It's one of their own. And I'm loving rubbing their noses in it. The secondary benefit is that it exposes Democrat/Progressives as corporatist scum. It wastes away the illusion that they are for the "little people." |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:51:58 PM EDT
[#11]
They've had atropine and 2pamC auto injectors since I played with nerve agents and that has been almost 20 years ago it seems.
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:54:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does not justify using force against another person. Patents are the situation in which people say "I want x, but can't innovate it myself, so I want somebody else to innovate. Government, go ahead and point guns at people in the interest of getting me the widgets I want." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do away with patents. Problem solved. *sigh*  Yepp sound argument you got there. I don't really think he needs to explain why this is a bad idea. Without the protection of patents, there is very little reason for a person or company to spend time/money on R&D or to ever try to come up with a better/improved/new product. It is already bad enough with the Chinese doing this, no need to completely open up the flood gates. Does not justify using force against another person. Patents are the situation in which people say "I want x, but can't innovate it myself, so I want somebody else to innovate. Government, go ahead and point guns at people in the interest of getting me the widgets I want." Lol! Wut? Patents protect the innovators. The issue here isn't a patent. It's the fucking FDA. There's plenty of R&D and innovation going on. The government is creating monopolies which is the opposite of what's it's supposed to be doing. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:55:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the beauty of this particular issue... It's not the evil Koch bothers. It's one of their own. And I'm loving rubbing their noses in it. The secondary benefit is that it exposes Democrat/Progressives as corporatist scum. It wastes away the illusion that they are for the "little people." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I love all these big government socialist bitching about a problem that big government policies inherently created. That's the beauty of this particular issue... It's not the evil Koch bothers. It's one of their own. And I'm loving rubbing their noses in it. The secondary benefit is that it exposes Democrat/Progressives as corporatist scum. It wastes away the illusion that they are for the "little people." Trump needs to rub the quarter million the company paid to her "foundation" right in Hillary's face because the media won't. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:56:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love all these big government socialist bitching about a problem that big government policies inherently created. A free market solves it's own problems, and it does so very fast. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:57:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, no! This is CAPITALISM!! All the corporate cock sucking professors on arfcom said so in the other thread! They're the real captalistic, conservative, patriotic real Americans because they always suck the cock of business and shout down anyone who is critical of any business for any reason. Even when it's blatant cronyism by a piece of shit hitlery supporting and donating democrat who's daddy helped her get a CEO job, questionable MBA, and a monopoly. Derp. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 10:04:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do away with patents. Problem solved. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 10:28:08 PM EDT
[#17]
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Do you want to be a 3rd world country? Because that's how you become a 3rd world country. Txl Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do away with patents. Problem solved. Do you want to be a 3rd world country? Because that's how you become a 3rd world country. Txl Every major election year it happens. We need to build a wall. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:08:58 AM EDT
[#18]
OK so auto injector is hundreds of dollars now. So can't someone just sell old fashioned syringe and needle types? For cheap and profit????
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:18:20 AM EDT
[#19]
There was supposed to be pudding.
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:23:33 AM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:26:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Government/Company
Crony Capitalism Government Funds to Mylan Spiked After Manchin's Daughter Became CEO In 2007, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported that Bresch had claimed to have an MBA degree from West Virginia University, but the university disputed that. The university subsequently awarded her an EMBA despite her having completed only 26 of the required 48 credits. Her father was governor of the state of West Virginia at the time. West Virginia University M.B.A. controversy In the ensuing controversy, the university announced in April 2008 that it would rescind Bresch's degree. Michael Garrison, WVU President at the time, was reported to be "a family friend and former business associate of Bresch"[10] and a former consultant and lobbyist for Mylan.  After a faculty vote of no confidence, Garrison and several university officials subsequently resigned. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:41:47 AM EDT
[#22]
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The culture within Mylan is supposed to be horrible according to some guy that lives on the street. It is said that there is so much corruption from the ground all the way to the top. Someone told my cousins brother there are blowjobs in supervisor offices, sex all over the factory. Another person told my brothers cousins sister that the mistakes made within that are covered up are pretty shocking. Rumor has it that they pay so well in the poverty stricken regions they place their plants that very few will come forward for fear of losing their job. My aunts uncle told someone that WVU literally falsified records to give the CEO his degree. Like bad corruption. Yes, please continue to suck the cock of a hitlery supporting and donating piece of shit democrat run company. You're such a courageous warrior for capitalism, the very epitome of a capitalistic, conservative, patriotic real American. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:52:55 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK so auto injector is hundreds of dollars now. So can't someone just sell old fashioned syringe and needle types? For cheap and profit???? Also the cheaper adrenaclick already available. If some enterprising individual were to sell pre-measured epi syringes, it'd sell like hotcakes. Or good old fashioned buy syringes and epi, and fill them yourself. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:53:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do away with patents. Problem solved. I'm not calling you retarded. I'm calling your post retarded. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:57:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Yet in another thread people were defending it as capitalism. Gov Rauner just signed into law a bill allowing EMT-Bs to administer injections via syringe. Fuck you Epipen cunt! $5 for an injection vs $600 for an auto injector means that every ems agency in Illinois will be dropping the Epipen shortly.
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:01:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do away with patents. Problem solved. Nothing holding you back in life but your GT score son. Aaaaaiiiieeeeeeaaaaa |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:31:01 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do away with patents. Problem solved. Nationalize Intellectual Property! |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:33:04 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does not justify using force against another person. Patents are the situation in which people say "I want x, but can't innovate it myself, so I want somebody else to innovate. Government, go ahead and point guns at people in the interest of getting me the widgets I want." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do away with patents. Problem solved. *sigh* Yepp sound argument you got there. I don't really think he needs to explain why this is a bad idea. Without the protection of patents, there is very little reason for a person or company to spend time/money on R&D or to ever try to come up with a better/improved/new product. It is already bad enough with the Chinese doing this, no need to completely open up the flood gates. Does not justify using force against another person. Patents are the situation in which people say "I want x, but can't innovate it myself, so I want somebody else to innovate. Government, go ahead and point guns at people in the interest of getting me the widgets I want." Wat |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:53:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They've had atropine and 2pamC auto injectors since I played with nerve agents and that has been almost 20 years ago it seems. When given the option, between a $500 EpiPen, and a 5/8" switchblade sawtoothed knife blade designed to slice through up to 4 layers of denim, thus opening the way for a 2" long, 18 gauge stainless steel tube to slam through your muscle, in order to add a touch of Epinepherine, most people decided that $500 was a good deal. 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:14:09 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: daughter of Sen Manchin is the CEO Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If that shit is true, I think there need to be some public tar and feathering for those involved. I don't really care for this 2 - 3 years down the road a sentencing is determined. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:16:45 AM EDT
[#31]
The company paid top dollar for a lot of lobbying, now the law and the federal agencies are both stacked in their favor. State laws require an epipen, not a generic. State laws does not mention looking for a generic. At to that FDIC is reducing competition-much of what they do has been bought and paid for for years-who funds interns and who funds studies, who funds the golden parachutes into the private sector?
One thing I enjoyed is that this all started under the Demcrate's watch, and mostly post Affordable Healthcare Act. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 2:17:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing holding you back in life but your GT score son. Aaaaaiiiieeeeeeaaaaa Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do away with patents. Problem solved. Nothing holding you back in life but your GT score son. Aaaaaiiiieeeeeeaaaaa Brave Rifles. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:22:58 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also the cheaper adrenaclick already available. If some enterprising individual were to sell pre-measured epi syringes, it'd sell like hotcakes. Or good old fashioned buy syringes and epi, and fill them yourself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OK so auto injector is hundreds of dollars now. So can't someone just sell old fashioned syringe and needle types? For cheap and profit???? Also the cheaper adrenaclick already available. If some enterprising individual were to sell pre-measured epi syringes, it'd sell like hotcakes. Or good old fashioned buy syringes and epi, and fill them yourself. I have witnessed someone going into shock after a bee sting, chances of them being functional enough to retrieve and use a syringe was questionable. Also, have to take into the consideration of transporting old fashioned syringe with you 24/7. I can see the syringe as an option for some people, but not for the general public. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:41:51 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do away with patents. Problem solved. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:48:54 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or good old fashioned buy syringes and epi, and fill them yourself. That's transporting around drug paraphernalia (empty syringes). I can see a situation like a school where someone might be allowed to carry an auto-injector but not syringes. Thanks war on drugs. Also, someone in the middle of an emergency might not be able to successfully handle a regular syringe to treat themselves vs an auto injector. Seconds can matter. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:59:28 PM EDT
[#36]
There's a lot of misconception around this issue. Mylan is being greedy, but it's government policies that allow them to do this. If not for the government stopping competition there's no way they would be able to charge such obscene prices.
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Posted: 8/30/2016 12:09:39 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's transporting around drug paraphernalia (empty syringes). I can see a situation like a school where someone might be allowed to carry an auto-injector but not syringes. Thanks war on drugs. Also, someone in the middle of an emergency might not be able to successfully handle a regular syringe to treat themselves vs an auto injector. Seconds can matter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Or good old fashioned buy syringes and epi, and fill them yourself. That's transporting around drug paraphernalia (empty syringes). I can see a situation like a school where someone might be allowed to carry an auto-injector but not syringes. Thanks war on drugs. Also, someone in the middle of an emergency might not be able to successfully handle a regular syringe to treat themselves vs an auto injector. Seconds can matter. This. In addition, some people simply have very quick onset of Anaphalaxis, and in many cases, can shut down the airway. Folks with severe food allergy's for instance. Kinda hard to fiddle around with a syringe while choking to death, so they rely on others to a large degree. Any shlub can grab an auto injector, and stab the victim in the thigh, and get the dose right. Hand a Union teacher a syringe pack, and vial of Epi, and watch the response. when they informed of the liability of incorrect dosage. Not gonna happen, little Susie is gonna have to wait for the EMT's. 
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Posted: 8/30/2016 12:09:47 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Patents are a funding model of innovation. A really super duper peaceful one where the government uses force to protect the innovator's bottom line. Christ, are we pro small government in GD or not? It's hard to keep up. Small government unless business profits are on the line, maybe? This shit is confusing. Solving the Epi Pen problem is simple. Let the Chinese sell a general purpose injecting device that functions the same way Add $0.25 worth of Epi. There you go. $25 delivered via Amazon prime. No government force required. So, are you saying that the police are being evil when they use force to prevent a robbery against you? Cause by your argument governments using force to protect property rights is somehow bad. And yes, it is property, sometimes very valuable at that. You seem to think that drug development and R&D happens when some neckbeard mixes drano and bleach in his mom's basement and sells it while incurring near 0 R&D costs. Newsflash, it takes an army of researchers, assistants, resources, tools and knowledge to do real drug development, and none of that comes cheap. A researcher with an advanced degree can cost 200k/yr plus benefits, and some of that equipment costs millions to buy. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 12:13:45 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Patents are a funding model of innovation. A really super duper peaceful one where the government uses force to protect the innovator's bottom line. Christ, are we pro small government in GD or not? It's hard to keep up. Small government unless business profits are on the line, maybe? This shit is confusing. Solving the Epi Pen problem is simple. Let the Chinese sell a general purpose injecting device that functions the same way Add $0.25 worth of Epi. There you go. $25 delivered via Amazon prime. No government force required. So, are you saying that the police are being evil when they use force to prevent a robbery against you? Cause by your argument governments using force to protect property rights is somehow bad. And yes, it is property, sometimes very valuable at that. You seem to think that drug development and R&D happens when some neckbeard mixes drano and bleach in his mom's basement and sells it while incurring near 0 R&D costs. Newsflash, it takes an army of researchers, assistants, resources, tools and knowledge to do real drug development, and none of that comes cheap. A researcher with an advanced degree can cost 200k/yr plus benefits, and some of that equipment costs millions to buy. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 12:43:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's a lot of misconception around this issue. Mylan is being greedy, but it's government policies that allow them to do this. If not for the government stopping competition there's no way they would be able to charge such obscene prices. Yeah it isn't JUST the government. It's the fact that Mylan's CEO is a democrat hitlery donor/supporter and so is her senator father. Then again, there can't be anything nefarious or cronyism going on here. It's all always the government. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 12:55:26 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do away with patents. Problem solved. You're not very educated, are you? |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:06:45 AM EDT
[#42]
TLDR article. I don't know if they're applicable to this or not, but patents are definitely FSA.
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:10:38 AM EDT
[#43]
just get a prescription for Adrenaclick instead. same shit
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:21:07 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah it isn't JUST the government. It's the fact that Mylan's CEO is a democrat hitlery donor/supporter and so is her senator father. Then again, there can't be anything nefarious or cronyism going on here. It's all always the government. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There's a lot of misconception around this issue. Mylan is being greedy, but it's government policies that allow them to do this. If not for the government stopping competition there's no way they would be able to charge such obscene prices. Yeah it isn't JUST the government. It's the fact that Mylan's CEO is a democrat hitlery donor/supporter and so is her senator father. Then again, there can't be anything nefarious or cronyism going on here. It's all always the government. Uh, in this case, yes. If it weren't for the FDAs extra-Constitutional powers, competitors would have already undersold the Epipen out of existence. The fact that 'Cronyism' is what is causing the FDA to use their power is secondary. Having that power, and no effective checks, means that it WILL be abused. By whom is pretty much a moot point. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:30:30 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's transporting around drug paraphernalia (empty syringes). I can see a situation like a school where someone might be allowed to carry an auto-injector but not syringes. Thanks war on drugs. Also, someone in the middle of an emergency might not be able to successfully handle a regular syringe to treat themselves vs an auto injector. Seconds can matter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Or good old fashioned buy syringes and epi, and fill them yourself. That's transporting around drug paraphernalia (empty syringes). I can see a situation like a school where someone might be allowed to carry an auto-injector but not syringes. Thanks war on drugs. Also, someone in the middle of an emergency might not be able to successfully handle a regular syringe to treat themselves vs an auto injector. Seconds can matter. Plus loaded syringes will not be stable for a fraction as long as a sealed auto injector will be. I'm thinking after 3-4 days tops your prefilled syringe will lose it's potency. No chance of being able to draw from an ampule while in the middle of a reaction. No ems agency is going to stick you with a mystery syringe and few BLS services carry epi. They can use patient provided epipens but nobody is touching your prefilled syringe and risking a loss of their license or worse. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:32:58 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. In addition, some people simply have very quick onset of Anaphalaxis, and in many cases, can shut down the airway. Folks with severe food allergy's for instance. Kinda hard to fiddle around with a syringe while choking to death, so they rely on others to a large degree. Any shlub can grab an auto injector, and stab the victim in the thigh, and get the dose right. Hand a Union teacher a syringe pack, and vial of Epi, and watch the response. when they informed of the liability of incorrect dosage. Not gonna happen, little Susie is gonna have to wait for the EMT's.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or good old fashioned buy syringes and epi, and fill them yourself. That's transporting around drug paraphernalia (empty syringes). I can see a situation like a school where someone might be allowed to carry an auto-injector but not syringes. Thanks war on drugs. Also, someone in the middle of an emergency might not be able to successfully handle a regular syringe to treat themselves vs an auto injector. Seconds can matter. This. In addition, some people simply have very quick onset of Anaphalaxis, and in many cases, can shut down the airway. Folks with severe food allergy's for instance. Kinda hard to fiddle around with a syringe while choking to death, so they rely on others to a large degree. Any shlub can grab an auto injector, and stab the victim in the thigh, and get the dose right. Hand a Union teacher a syringe pack, and vial of Epi, and watch the response. when they informed of the liability of incorrect dosage. Not gonna happen, little Susie is gonna have to wait for the EMT's.
If they have it. BLS services in my region are probably about 50/50 for carrying epi. That number is not likely to go up with major price increases for a drug that will be tossed out on expiration far more often than it will be used. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:36:51 AM EDT
[#47]
You'll note I did say to "fill them yourself" meaning they'd be prefilled - not empty syringes and vials of epi.
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:39:54 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'll note I did say to "fill them yourself" meaning they'd be prefilled - not empty syringes and vials of epi. Epi loses potency when exposed to air and light. The prefilled injectors are sealed for this but a regular syringe is not. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:40:10 AM EDT
[#49]
Someone should make a refillable epi-pen.
Not that it would ever, in a million years, gain FDA approval. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:57:26 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TLDR article. I don't know if they're applicable to this or not, but patents are definitely FSA. You haven't seen an invoice for patent work. |
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