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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:47:22 PM EDT
[#1]
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Ummm... "put out?" I've never received sexual favors from a drug rep. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hopefully Auvi-Q can get their shit straightened out. That is a much easier product to use and carry. Probably depends on if the the Auvi-Q reps are willing to put out more than the epi-pen reps. 
Ummm... "put out?" I've never received sexual favors from a drug rep. You haven't? Need to see pics. 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:49:39 PM EDT
[#2]
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And yet Narcan is given out like candy on halloween. And no shortage to speak of. Funny that. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:52:05 PM EDT
[#3]
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Their price on a product that has been in existence for years and whose product is bought in great quantities by the government. After a 'merger' the CEO (Manchin's daughter) decides to raise prices by 400%... Easy to do when you buy out the competition. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well I'll just tote the ARFCOM line. If you don't like the price then find another product or invent your own medicine. Their product their rules. Don't like the price? You don't need to buy it either. A pack of Altoids will do just as good of a job and leave you with a minty breath. (/sarcasm). Their price on a product that has been in existence for years and whose product is bought in great quantities by the government. After a 'merger' the CEO (Manchin's daughter) decides to raise prices by 400%... Easy to do when you buy out the competition. So, I guess you against womymfolk breaking through the glass ceiling?
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:52:27 PM EDT
[#4]
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I can't imagine a school willing to accept the liability of a syringe + meds. Ours requires a signed letter from the issuing doc every year before they are even allowed to bring it to school. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We need to supply our own epi pens for school, and for people like my non-medical wife to carry in her purse for the kids. For me, I'm happy to tape an epi amp and syringe together. Expecting a layperson not accustomed to injectables (eg insulin) to understand and the difference between 0.15mg, 0.3mg, and a full 1mg slug in an emergency is a bit much. Give them a Broselow tape, and a .5ML syringe. Even if they screw it up, they can't screw it up THAT bad.
Your average 1st-grader is 20 kilos... and they only get bigger. ETA: or for kids, have the school nurse keep 0.3cc syringes. Make it idiot-proof I can't imagine a school willing to accept the liability of a syringe + meds. Ours requires a signed letter from the issuing doc every year before they are even allowed to bring it to school. And therein lies the problem. A school nurse is more than qualified to give an IM injection of epi in the appropriate dose. The legal people would sh*t kittens if you attempted to actually do it. 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:56:01 PM EDT
[#5]
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Wouldn't filling the syringe ahead of time and carrying it in a protective case basically be the same as an Epi-Pen? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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some desperate patients who can't afford EpiPens anymore have turned to filling syringes with epinephrine themselves — an extremely tricky and potentially dangerous alternative. LOL its not that hard to fill a syringe. Try it when you can't feel your fingers, have tunnel vision, confusion and disorientation sets in, and your heart rate is Palp over zero.
The Epi-Pen is a solution because of the delivery system. Any tard can apply it, and it is workable for those disabled, disoriented, and alone, to self inject. Fuck up the dose with Epi, or fail to get the job done, and you're dead. It sounds like you're a volunteer to demonstrate it's not needed. Dibs on your stuff. Wouldn't filling the syringe ahead of time and carrying it in a protective case basically be the same as an Epi-Pen? Yes, it would. However you have to have a doctor willing to prescribe it, and take the potential liability that would come his way if you screwed up. Further, there actually is some cleverness required to do a sterile filling so that bacteria don't get into the syringe while you transfer it from the sterile vial. That is the main impediment to pre-filling the device. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:59:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it would. However you have to have a doctor willing to prescribe it, and take the potential liability that would come his way if you screwed up. Further, there actually is some cleverness required to do a sterile filling so that bacteria don't get into the syringe while you transfer it from the sterile vial. That is the main impediment to pre-filling the device. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:00:05 PM EDT
[#7]
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Yes, it would. However you have to have a doctor willing to prescribe it, and take the potential liability that would come his way if you screwed up. Further, there actually is some cleverness required to do a sterile filling so that bacteria don't get into the syringe while you transfer it from the sterile vial. That is the main impediment to pre-filling the device. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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some desperate patients who can't afford EpiPens anymore have turned to filling syringes with epinephrine themselves — an extremely tricky and potentially dangerous alternative. LOL its not that hard to fill a syringe. Try it when you can't feel your fingers, have tunnel vision, confusion and disorientation sets in, and your heart rate is Palp over zero.
The Epi-Pen is a solution because of the delivery system. Any tard can apply it, and it is workable for those disabled, disoriented, and alone, to self inject. Fuck up the dose with Epi, or fail to get the job done, and you're dead. It sounds like you're a volunteer to demonstrate it's not needed. Dibs on your stuff. Wouldn't filling the syringe ahead of time and carrying it in a protective case basically be the same as an Epi-Pen? Yes, it would. However you have to have a doctor willing to prescribe it, and take the potential liability that would come his way if you screwed up. Further, there actually is some cleverness required to do a sterile filling so that bacteria don't get into the syringe while you transfer it from the sterile vial. That is the main impediment to pre-filling the device. Probably the best explanation to the whole reasoning why doctors are fearful of prescribing something other than The Pen. Litigation combined with the simple fact that the average Joe, even though not needing a sterile environment, cant keep a simple ampule draw sterile while pre-loading a syringe. Proper use of alcohol swabs and attention to detail is not too difficult to do in order to keep sterile draws and storage in line. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:01:37 PM EDT
[#8]
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FWIW- I carry an epi-pen everywhere I go due to an allergic condition. The last set I purchased was about three years ago, so I believe they are coming up on their expiration. I have no idea how much they will cost me. Whatever it is, I will pay it. That being said, how dare this company that spent millions in research & development along with probably outrageous legal and insurance costs bring to the market a medical miracle that has literally saved thousands of lives and given countless more the freedom to enjoy daily life without donning a MOPP suit ever time somebody opens a jar of peanut butter AND expect to charge whatever they can get it for it. Geez, it's not like their Starbucks or something who deserve that $7 for a cup of burnt coffee 
Even if I never use the device, at $700 every three years, that is still less than a $1 per day as a hedge against dying from anaphylactic shock. Sounds like a good deal to me. If I ever do have to use the device I am sure the price tag will seem like an even bigger bargain! For the "it isn't fair crowd" you could go to school for decades and get into the field of medical research to come up with your own solution OR you can put your faith in pure Capitalism and let a leaner, hungrier competitor come up with a better priced and possibly just better product. If the maker of the epi-pen wants to keep their market cornered, they had better price it such to keep competition out of the marketplace but if the profit margins are that high, somebody will fill the vacuum between product cost to produce and retail cost to consumers. However, in the end, NOBODY OWES YOU the fruits of their knowledge, skills and abilities for a .gov determined fair price. This is how we get failures like Obamacare, AMTRAK and fannie mae/ freddie mac (the later being what propelled the U.S. into the worst recession since the late 1940s that we are still struggling to recover from). Still, I am sure we will have this nations moochers demanding their elected looters "nationalize" the epi-pen in the name of "fairness" and in 50 years without further R&D in the field it will still be the best thing out there. We have become a nation of spoiled children 
Hope you enjoy paying what you pay for these life saving devices due to the many government actions that prevent others from delivering a lifesaving device to the masses. I, for one, would like the government to stop enabling this kind of stuff, and you need not thank me. I bet you use insurance to pay for it, and don't care that the unwarranted increase in price just gets passed on to the rest of us. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:02:04 PM EDT
[#9]
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And therein lies the problem. A school nurse is more than qualified to give an IM injection of epi in the appropriate dose. The legal people would sh*t kittens if you attempted to actually do it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We need to supply our own epi pens for school, and for people like my non-medical wife to carry in her purse for the kids. For me, I'm happy to tape an epi amp and syringe together. Expecting a layperson not accustomed to injectables (eg insulin) to understand and the difference between 0.15mg, 0.3mg, and a full 1mg slug in an emergency is a bit much. Give them a Broselow tape, and a .5ML syringe. Even if they screw it up, they can't screw it up THAT bad.
Your average 1st-grader is 20 kilos... and they only get bigger. ETA: or for kids, have the school nurse keep 0.3cc syringes. Make it idiot-proof I can't imagine a school willing to accept the liability of a syringe + meds. Ours requires a signed letter from the issuing doc every year before they are even allowed to bring it to school. And therein lies the problem. A school nurse is more than qualified to give an IM injection of epi in the appropriate dose. The legal people would sh*t kittens if you attempted to actually do it. Right. The problem is not the meds, tools or process. It's the refusal to accept any reliability. FFS, I'd drive to the school and do it myself - I'm a mile away. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:15:02 PM EDT
[#10]
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When you compare the drug prices between the U.S and anywhere else in the world you will realize what a bunch of useless uncle fucking shirtbirds the FDA is comprised of. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Considering I can get an ampule of epi for about five bucks, and administer my own damned SQ or IM injection with an insulin syringe? Yeah... $600 for a two-pack of Epi-Pens just looks bad. When you compare the drug prices between the U.S and anywhere else in the world you will realize what a bunch of useless uncle fucking shirtbirds the FDA is comprised of. If you want to fix that you can do two general things, one of which involves the FDA. You can change (by statute) the rules of engagement for drug regulation. Specifically, go back to safety and purity as the only criteria for licensure (before Kefauver-Harris act of 1962). Proving efficacy (the last third of the deal) costs probably 80% of the cost of bringing a drug or device to the market. There is a case to be made for that. Of course, it will be up to you the consumer or your sub-contracted agents (Consumer Reports, USP, etc) to compare notes and sponsor trials to see if things work or not. But costs would go down a lot. The FDA requires proof of efficacy for licensure because we (Congress) requires it, by statute. You have the FDA that we collectively have asked for. Separately, shorten patents, allow re-importation of drugs/devices from foreign countries that have FDA-equivalent agencies, limit product liability, and allow the government to negotiate with drug companies for best prices for .gov patients. A blended approach would lower the barriers for a competitor to enter the market. A Congressional investigation into FDA regulation of this drug/device is probably called for, but don't hold your breath with the CEO of the beneficiary the daughter of a Senator. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:19:21 PM EDT
[#11]
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and where does this "cure" come from? Who owes it to you to go to school for years, choose a career in medical research, hurdle the legal and regulatory impediments, take the financial risk of bringing it to market and the assume the civil or even criminal liability if something goes terribly wrong? Exactly who owes this to you, me or anybody else? Miracle drugs are born from the potential for earnings. Maybe one day Government officials will start curing Cancer but until then your best hope is the greedy, money grubbing pharmaceutical companies. If you want affordable medical treatment and drugs, how about stop using .gov insurance rigging to inflate the price. How about expecting that people spend as much towards their own health every year as they do for fashionable coffee, clubbing and designer clothes. Now, I have no problem with public outrage and The Press shamming this company into reducing the price of epi-pens. Just the same as Amish communities shame members for usury but if you want to kill medical miracles, the surest way is to have the .gov determine what is the "fair" price for them. BTW- I just hope you keep the same attitude when you or someone you love gets Cancer and there is no cure at ANY price. I hope that doesn't happen! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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FWIW- I carry an epi-pen everywhere I go due to an allergic condition. The last set I purchased was about three years ago, so I believe they are coming up on their expiration. I have no idea how much they will cost me. Whatever it is, I will pay it. That being said, how dare this company that spent millions in research & development along with probably outrageous legal and insurance costs bring to the market a medical miracle that has literally saved thousands of lives and given countless more the freedom to enjoy daily life without donning a MOPP suit ever time somebody opens a jar of peanut butter AND expect to charge whatever they can get it for it. Geez, it's not like their Starbucks or something who deserve that $7 for a cup of burnt coffee
Even if I never use the device, at $700 every three years, that is still less than a $1 per day as a hedge against dying from anaphylactic shock. Sounds like a good deal to me. If I ever do have to use the device I am sure the price tag will seem like an even bigger bargain! For the "it isn't fair crowd" you could go to school for decades and get into the field of medical research to come up with your own solution OR you can put your faith in pure Capitalism and let a leaner, hungrier competitor come up with a better priced and possibly just better product. If the maker of the epi-pen wants to keep their market cornered, they had better price it such to keep competition out of the marketplace but if the profit margins are that high, somebody will fill the vacuum between product cost to produce and retail cost to consumers. However, in the end, NOBODY OWES YOU the fruits of their knowledge, skills and abilities for a .gov determined fair price. This is how we get failures like Obamacare, AMTRAK and fannie mae/ freddie mac (the later being what propelled the U.S. into the worst recession since the late 1940s that we are still struggling to recover from). Still, I am sure we will have this nations moochers demanding their elected looters "nationalize" the epi-pen in the name of "fairness" and in 50 years without further R&D in the field it will still be the best thing out there. We have become a nation of spoiled children
I just hope you keep the same attitude when you or someone you love gets Cancer. And you find out that the cure costs $3 to produce but you'll need to fork over $20 million for a dose. It could happen. Aloha, Mark and where does this "cure" come from? Who owes it to you to go to school for years, choose a career in medical research, hurdle the legal and regulatory impediments, take the financial risk of bringing it to market and the assume the civil or even criminal liability if something goes terribly wrong? Exactly who owes this to you, me or anybody else? Miracle drugs are born from the potential for earnings. Maybe one day Government officials will start curing Cancer but until then your best hope is the greedy, money grubbing pharmaceutical companies. If you want affordable medical treatment and drugs, how about stop using .gov insurance rigging to inflate the price. How about expecting that people spend as much towards their own health every year as they do for fashionable coffee, clubbing and designer clothes. Now, I have no problem with public outrage and The Press shamming this company into reducing the price of epi-pens. Just the same as Amish communities shame members for usury but if you want to kill medical miracles, the surest way is to have the .gov determine what is the "fair" price for them. BTW- I just hope you keep the same attitude when you or someone you love gets Cancer and there is no cure at ANY price. I hope that doesn't happen! The research into this product required nobody to go to medical school. It is the injector device that is the patented entity, not epinephrine, which was invented and patented 100 years ago. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:20:47 PM EDT
[#12]
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Just about every reply typifies the health care issue in the US and other countries. Actually, my replies are brilliant and well reasoned. They will fix everything and cure cancer and AIDs and drug resistant lice in one fell swoop. 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:25:22 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:28:45 PM EDT
[#14]
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Loosening some FDA regulations and reducing approval times for life saving drugs. It's absurd that we have to do lengthy studies for long term side effects on a drug that's clinically proven to save a life today. Asking for the government to investigate itself would be a fruitless pursuit so I'm not sure how to address the corruption that takes place in certain approval processes. Somewhere though there is a huge issue in this country when one can go to any pharmacy in the world and purchase the same drugs there for a fraction of the cost as here. Denying the problem and calling it capitalism is obtuse though. When Americans are going to Mexico to buy prescription drugs there is a problem. This is exactly the sort of thing that is going to drive more Americans towards not just accepting single payer healthcare but demanding it. Of course I hold the unpopular opinion that unrestrained capitalism can be and usually is just as evil as pure socialism so there's that as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also for the "capitalism"crowd I will just add that capitalism does not exist inside of an industry that is 100% regulated by an unaccountable and appointed government panel. So what's your proposal? Socialize them as is being pushed by these articles or fix the root cause? Loosening some FDA regulations and reducing approval times for life saving drugs. It's absurd that we have to do lengthy studies for long term side effects on a drug that's clinically proven to save a life today. Asking for the government to investigate itself would be a fruitless pursuit so I'm not sure how to address the corruption that takes place in certain approval processes. Somewhere though there is a huge issue in this country when one can go to any pharmacy in the world and purchase the same drugs there for a fraction of the cost as here. Denying the problem and calling it capitalism is obtuse though. When Americans are going to Mexico to buy prescription drugs there is a problem. This is exactly the sort of thing that is going to drive more Americans towards not just accepting single payer healthcare but demanding it. Of course I hold the unpopular opinion that unrestrained capitalism can be and usually is just as evil as pure socialism so there's that as well. The FDA literally HAS to be told by Congress (through statute) to lighten up and loosen the standards for certain categories of products like this and stop demanding perfection in a device that injects drugs through clothing, administered by minimally trained people, in extreme physical distress. To the FDA, there is NO reason to lower standards, and accept more risk. It is, by explicit design, an agency that CAN'T lower standards except by Congress requiring it. I am serious. I used to work there. You have the FDA you asked for, or we asked for, collectively. Nobody at FDA wants to be the goat who approved something that might show up in a story about a kid who died because the epinephrine injector failed, and have some Mylan executive be quoted as saying "the kid would have lived if they didn't use that crap device made in Joe's Garage". You would behave the same way, given the same circumstances. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:30:46 PM EDT
[#15]
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Meanwhile, Colorado is about to vote for single-payer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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CEO of the company is Senator Joe Manchin's (D-WV) daughter. Yeah... and they did a corporate inversion to avoid paying "their fair share." Proving once again that Leftists are Liars, and Socialism is for the People, not the Socialist. Meanwhile, Colorado is about to vote for single-payer. Lol. Good luck with that. Are they going to put up a wall to keep freeloaders from moving to Colorado? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:31:38 PM EDT
[#16]
BREAKING: EPIPEN MAKER OFFERS DISCOUNT AFTER PUBLIC OUTRAGE
https://www.rt.com/usa/357200-epipen-price-outrage-clinton/ |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:33:08 PM EDT
[#17]
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Dentists and oral surgeons have been administering epi sublingually without consequence for years. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Considering I can get an ampule of epi for about five bucks, and administer my own damned SQ or IM injection with an insulin syringe? Yeah... $600 for a two-pack of Epi-Pens just looks bad. I used to keep an epi pen in my dental office ER kit. I went to buy one this year, and was quoted $350 for a single epi pen. I decided that an ampule of epi 1:10,000 sounded good and that I would just administer it sublinguallly if needed You may want to rethink that sublingual part... Dentists and oral surgeons have been administering epi sublingually without consequence for years. Or spray it down the throat. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:35:16 PM EDT
[#18]
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BREAKING: EPIPEN MAKER OFFERS DISCOUNT AFTER PUBLIC OUTRAGE https://www.rt.com/usa/357200-epipen-price-outrage-clinton/ But it still cost 250% more than it did last year. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:36:00 PM EDT
[#19]
The FDA is worthless. I became seriously ill from a drug I was prescribed that was supposed to be safe. I reported it to the FDA thinking they would want to know what the drug did to me, so maybe it could prevent other people from what I went through. I didn't get any reply back, not a peep after several attempts. Fuck Them they are another worthless bureaucracy.
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:39:34 PM EDT
[#20]
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Should the State regulate how much profit can be made off an item? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Meh. The fact it even exists for you to buy is just this side of a miracle when you think about what's required to develop and make something like that. If you put me in a lab for 1,000 lifetimes, I'll probably never be able to make an epipen. So I'll pay whatever it costs. Bullshit That isn't capitalism. It is just pure scalping. They were making and selling it for $100 now $550. No extra cost to manufacure. Same stuff. No new development cost. They are sorry mother fuckers Rx companies are propped up by the FDA. Do some research. Should the State regulate how much profit can be made off an item? When they have a damned monopoly and attempt to prevent anyone else from bringing a similar product to market? Hell, yes. We have laws prohibiting monopolies and crony capitalism for a reason. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:43:39 PM EDT
[#21]
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Bullshit That isn't capitalism. It is just pure scalping. They were making and selling it for $100 now $550. No extra cost to manufacure. Same stuff. No new development cost. They are sorry mother fuckers Rx companies are propped up by the FDA. Do some research. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Meh. The fact it even exists for you to buy is just this side of a miracle when you think about what's required to develop and make something like that. If you put me in a lab for 1,000 lifetimes, I'll probably never be able to make an epipen. So I'll pay whatever it costs. Bullshit That isn't capitalism. It is just pure scalping. They were making and selling it for $100 now $550. No extra cost to manufacure. Same stuff. No new development cost. They are sorry mother fuckers Rx companies are propped up by the FDA. Do some research. This is correct. The WSJ has an article today that explains how this occurred. The drug itself is very old and cheap, but apparently there are no competitors for the delivery device because they couldn't get through the FDA approval process. If I understand it right, there is a hole in the regulations that doesn't cover this kind of device so there is no defined method to get approval. Many have tried. So due to the bloated FDA and regulations, capitalism was strangled, resulting in a single supplier that took advantage of the situation. . |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:46:48 PM EDT
[#22]
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When they have a damned monopoly and attempt to prevent anyone else from bringing a similar product to market? Hell, yes. We have laws prohibiting monopolies and crony capitalism for a reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Meh. The fact it even exists for you to buy is just this side of a miracle when you think about what's required to develop and make something like that. If you put me in a lab for 1,000 lifetimes, I'll probably never be able to make an epipen. So I'll pay whatever it costs. Bullshit That isn't capitalism. It is just pure scalping. They were making and selling it for $100 now $550. No extra cost to manufacure. Same stuff. No new development cost. They are sorry mother fuckers Rx companies are propped up by the FDA. Do some research. Should the State regulate how much profit can be made off an item? When they have a damned monopoly and attempt to prevent anyone else from bringing a similar product to market? Hell, yes. We have laws prohibiting monopolies and crony capitalism for a reason. Huh, turns out laws don't help when the government is the problem. Whodathunkit? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:47:34 PM EDT
[#23]
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From the article: A generic version of the EpiPen did not get approval from the Food and Drug Administration; the agency cited "certain major deficiencies." http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2016/08/24/epipen-price-gouging-came-as-mylan-pulled-off-tax-inversion.html President Obama has lashed out against the practice of inversion, calling it “one of the most insidious tax loopholes out there.” Trump, too, has ripped corporate inversions, calling them a “huge problem.” What makes the Mylan case so problematic is that the company CEO Heather Bresch is the daughter of Democratic Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia. Democrats, led by Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton, have loudly denounced corporate inversions. As patents expire, generic drug companies often jump in. But oddly, Israeli-based Teva Pharmaceuticals (TEVA) attempted to present a generic version but was soundly swatted down by the FDA which cited “certain major deficiencies” to Teva’s product. O’Brien smells a rat. “There is no competition. They have a monopoly. The barriers to entry are really high and right now there’s a low cost alternative trying to work its way through the FDA. I’ve been in this for 11 years. We’ve seen Twin-ject come and go, Auvi-Q (by Sanofi US) come and go.. Auvi-Q was recalled because of 26 unconfirmed reports. There needs to be an investigation into how (Mylan) has been able to maintain this monopoly that it has and yes, these are life saving devices but they can come in a lot of different forms and a healthy marketplace means healthy competition,” said O’Brien. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When does the patent expire? From the article: A generic version of the EpiPen did not get approval from the Food and Drug Administration; the agency cited "certain major deficiencies." http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2016/08/24/epipen-price-gouging-came-as-mylan-pulled-off-tax-inversion.html President Obama has lashed out against the practice of inversion, calling it “one of the most insidious tax loopholes out there.” Trump, too, has ripped corporate inversions, calling them a “huge problem.” What makes the Mylan case so problematic is that the company CEO Heather Bresch is the daughter of Democratic Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia. Democrats, led by Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton, have loudly denounced corporate inversions. As patents expire, generic drug companies often jump in. But oddly, Israeli-based Teva Pharmaceuticals (TEVA) attempted to present a generic version but was soundly swatted down by the FDA which cited “certain major deficiencies” to Teva’s product. O’Brien smells a rat. “There is no competition. They have a monopoly. The barriers to entry are really high and right now there’s a low cost alternative trying to work its way through the FDA. I’ve been in this for 11 years. We’ve seen Twin-ject come and go, Auvi-Q (by Sanofi US) come and go.. Auvi-Q was recalled because of 26 unconfirmed reports. There needs to be an investigation into how (Mylan) has been able to maintain this monopoly that it has and yes, these are life saving devices but they can come in a lot of different forms and a healthy marketplace means healthy competition,” said O’Brien. Ding, we have a winner. Buy out the competition, lobby for laws requiring people to buy your product, raise your prices, then bribe public officials to prevent anyone else from bringing a similar product to market. We have a term for this shit; crony capitalism. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:50:31 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:54:22 PM EDT
[#25]
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One thing I have noticed is that Epi pens used to come in a yellowy-brown translucent tube with an end cap, were fairly simple, so you pulled the safety cap and slammed it into your quads. Now, I get 2 sets of pens, with a training pen. I think I had one that had both pens built into one, so you could get the follow-up dose from the same device. There have been a lot of features added, the biggest one being that I actually get 2 pens now vs. one, plus the trainer pen. Old looked like this, even down to the packaging when I first got them in 1999: http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72609000/jpg/_72609248_c0174917-epipen_epinephrine_autoinjector_-spl.jpg Some later ones looked like this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-npW4u1XACPM/Ub4d5srqfqI/AAAAAAAAJ8o/i--q_THeXm0/s1600/EpiPenVTwinjectVAuviQ.jpg Now they are like this: http://thumbs3.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/122071188162_/Lot-6-Epipen-Epi-Pen-Epinephrine-Training-Device.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Considering I can get an ampule of epi for about five bucks, and administer my own damned SQ or IM injection with an insulin syringe? Yeah... $600 for a two-pack of Epi-Pens just looks bad. One thing I have noticed is that Epi pens used to come in a yellowy-brown translucent tube with an end cap, were fairly simple, so you pulled the safety cap and slammed it into your quads. Now, I get 2 sets of pens, with a training pen. I think I had one that had both pens built into one, so you could get the follow-up dose from the same device. There have been a lot of features added, the biggest one being that I actually get 2 pens now vs. one, plus the trainer pen. Old looked like this, even down to the packaging when I first got them in 1999: http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72609000/jpg/_72609248_c0174917-epipen_epinephrine_autoinjector_-spl.jpg Some later ones looked like this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-npW4u1XACPM/Ub4d5srqfqI/AAAAAAAAJ8o/i--q_THeXm0/s1600/EpiPenVTwinjectVAuviQ.jpg Now they are like this: http://thumbs3.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/122071188162_/Lot-6-Epipen-Epi-Pen-Epinephrine-Training-Device.jpg damn, I didn't realize how expired mine was. should probably cough up the bucks. 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:00:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The old design of morphine syrette would work and would be dirt cheap. The FDA won't approve it without a few hundred million in kickbacks though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Considering I can get an ampule of epi for about five bucks, and administer my own damned SQ or IM injection with an insulin syringe? Yeah... $600 for a two-pack of Epi-Pens just looks bad. I don't understandwhy someone out there hasn't come out with a glucagon style prefilled syringe admin kit for epi. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The old design of morphine syrette would work and would be dirt cheap. The FDA won't approve it without a few hundred million in kickbacks though. 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:00:59 PM EDT
[#27]
http://vitals.lifehacker.com/adrenaclick-is-a-cheaper-alternative-to-the-epipen-1785655358
Only difference is it has two caps $144 at walmart http://www.goodrx.com/epinephrine?drug-name=epinephrine |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:01:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh, turns out laws don't help when the government is the problem. Whodathunkit? The laws came about from public outrage. The problem is that the government, and politicians in general, can fuck up anything. And if it benefits them, they will fuck up or ignore the laws. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:01:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Raise the capital. Assemble a staff. Acquire manufacturing. Develop a similar but different device. Set up a clinical trial program. Conduct your trials. Compile your data. Assemble your packet. Sum it to FDA with their required fee of $1m. Await feedback. Make revisions. Resubmit. Gain approval. Initiate marketing and sales efforts. Profit. Or buy Epi-pen for what amounts to $1 per day. Seriously, what's stopping you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Start your own company. Profit by selling for less. It's easy. What's stopping you? lol Profit. Or buy Epi-pen for what amounts to $1 per day. Seriously, what's stopping you? Items in BLUE are sort of expensive, and not very expensive at all for something like this which is not an innovative technology. They would probably buy the epinephrine from someone else for less than a dollar a dose. Items in RED are where the big bucks are, and are largely due to government enforced rules/regulations/barriers to market entry. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:04:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't imagine a school willing to accept the liability of a syringe + meds. Ours requires a signed letter from the issuing doc every year before they are even allowed to bring it to school. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We need to supply our own epi pens for school, and for people like my non-medical wife to carry in her purse for the kids. For me, I'm happy to tape an epi amp and syringe together. Expecting a layperson not accustomed to injectables (eg insulin) to understand and the difference between 0.15mg, 0.3mg, and a full 1mg slug in an emergency is a bit much. Give them a Broselow tape, and a .5ML syringe. Even if they screw it up, they can't screw it up THAT bad.
Your average 1st-grader is 20 kilos... and they only get bigger. ETA: or for kids, have the school nurse keep 0.3cc syringes. Make it idiot-proof I can't imagine a school willing to accept the liability of a syringe + meds. Ours requires a signed letter from the issuing doc every year before they are even allowed to bring it to school. Part of the government instigated/enforced social structure that makes things more expensive than they ought to be. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:06:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Just some info, the price jumped 400% since 2008 about $600.00 for two shots now. guess who is CEO of company and who's salary jumped 675% ,Senator Joe Manchin's daughter How nice, doing good for the people Vote Democrat ass holes |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:06:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yet in an industrial setting would be child's play and brings no patent issues with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes, it would. However you have to have a doctor willing to prescribe it, and take the potential liability that would come his way if you screwed up. Further, there actually is some cleverness required to do a sterile filling so that bacteria don't get into the syringe while you transfer it from the sterile vial. That is the main impediment to pre-filling the device. You have stumbled into the truth, inadvertently. Once it is INDUSTRIAL (commercial) and crosses state lines, you are in FDA territory. Doing this will be deemed "remanufacturing" and you have invited the man up your ass. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:09:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FDA is worthless. I became seriously ill from a drug I was prescribed that was supposed to be safe. I reported it to the FDA thinking they would want to know what the drug did to me, so maybe it could prevent other people from what I went through. I didn't get any reply back, not a peep after several attempts. Fuck Them they are another worthless bureaucracy. How did you report it? MedWatch? Phone call? You can do it online. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:13:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, this clown thinks pharmaceuticals resemble a 'free market'. what a chump Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't disagree but at that price they have opened a market hole that a competitor can fill. Its not like eippens are magical or contain magical stuff. They contain epinephrine which isn't a drug that is novel or expensive. The part that they made possible was self administration. That company will be forced to drop the price when they lose their market after someone else puts a similar product out. Lol, this clown thinks pharmaceuticals resemble a 'free market'. what a chump It is. Come take a look at my product class. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:19:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is. Come take a look at my product class. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol, this clown thinks pharmaceuticals resemble a 'free market'. what a chump It is. Come take a look at my product class. You clearly don't have friends in Washington DC protecting your products then. Other countries have options when it comes to epipen style products. For some reason the FDA keeps denying everything that is submitted to the US market. The FDA allows the competitors other auto-delivery products, just not the epinephrine one. It is sort of like the way the IRS denied Republican non-profits at a 10 to 1 rate.  |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:20:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hopefully Auvi-Q can get their shit straightened out. That is a much easier product to use and carry. Well, I can tell you this, I've heard the product marketing team for Auvi-Q has been scattered to the winds, so to speak. I don't think they see a relaunch in the near term. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:22:44 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You clearly don't have friends in Washington DC protecting your products then. Other countries have options when it comes to epipen style products. For some reason the FDA keeps denying everything that is submitted to the US market. The FDA allows the competitors other auto-delivery products, just not the epinephrine one. https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14100245_1248487728517467_8840779907311554582_n.jpg?oh=6d678108b134c88da961b4eddd1f4fa1&oe=585D6066 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lol, this clown thinks pharmaceuticals resemble a 'free market'. what a chump It is. Come take a look at my product class. You clearly don't have friends in Washington DC protecting your products then. Other countries have options when it comes to epipen style products. For some reason the FDA keeps denying everything that is submitted to the US market. The FDA allows the competitors other auto-delivery products, just not the epinephrine one. https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14100245_1248487728517467_8840779907311554582_n.jpg?oh=6d678108b134c88da961b4eddd1f4fa1&oe=585D6066 I know.
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:24:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Considering I can get an ampule of epi for about five bucks, and administer my own damned SQ or IM injection with an insulin syringe? Yeah... $600 for a two-pack of Epi-Pens just looks bad. Generic at walmart is $140 |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:25:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FDA literally HAS to be told by Congress (through statute) to lighten up and loosen the standards for certain categories of products like this and stop demanding perfection in a device that injects drugs through clothing, administered by minimally trained people, in extreme physical distress. To the FDA, there is NO reason to lower standards, and accept more risk. It is, by explicit design, an agency that CAN'T lower standards except by Congress requiring it. I am serious. I used to work there. You have the FDA you asked for, or we asked for, collectively. Nobody at FDA wants to be the goat who approved something that might show up in a story about a kid who died because the epinephrine injector failed, and have some Mylan executive be quoted as saying "the kid would have lived if they didn't use that crap device made in Joe's Garage". You would behave the same way, given the same circumstances. No, Congress did not set any standards. What they did is order the FDA to set the standards for drug approvals, the FDA can and does modify any of the standards that they set without modifying the law. In fact the FDA has been setting progressively tighter standards for the past several decades with nothing more then an administrative process. The joke is that if you tried to get aspirin approved today you would be denied, yet it's one of the most common over the counter drugs. They do this because they are risk adverse and would rather let 1000 people die from lack of access to new drugs then risk one person dying from an approved drug. It's an institutional incentive problem really, if there is a drug recall due to previously unknown risks the FDA takes a ton of heat for it but if a drug is too expensive or nonexistent the FDA can just shrug their shoulders. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:32:47 PM EDT
[#40]
You know what I would do if I was a senator?
Get my daughter put in charge of a company. Give the Clinton foundation a bunch of money to have Hillary to tell the FDA to stomp out competition to my product. Profit. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:32:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://vitals.lifehacker.com/adrenaclick-is-a-cheaper-alternative-to-the-epipen-1785655358 Only difference is it has two caps $144 at walmart http://www.goodrx.com/epinephrine?drug-name=epinephrine Just checked my bag this is mine. 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:32:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Her excuse is BS. 55% of that price is not added by others outside of Mylan. She's lying and stupid since it is easily debunked. WAC=wholesale acquisition cost (aka-Mylan's price for the drug to wholesalers and distributor) http://www.post-gazette.com/business/healthcare-business/2016/08/24/EpiPen-pricing-fuels-new-debate-over-drug-pricing/stories/201608240069 During the company’s Aug. 9 earnings call, Mylan CEO Heather Bresch defended the EpiPen’s pricing, saying, "If you look on an annual basis, as a lifesaving drug, to have a WAC [wholesale acquisition cost] price at just under $600, I think that you can see it falls as not an expensive product.” Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
CNBC and the CEO of Mylan just explained that 55% of the price of an EpiPen is added by entities other than* Mylan. $274+$334=$608. So let's go after Mylan. * Pharmacy Benefit Managers, wholesalers/distributors, etc. WAC=wholesale acquisition cost (aka-Mylan's price for the drug to wholesalers and distributor) http://www.post-gazette.com/business/healthcare-business/2016/08/24/EpiPen-pricing-fuels-new-debate-over-drug-pricing/stories/201608240069 During the company’s Aug. 9 earnings call, Mylan CEO Heather Bresch defended the EpiPen’s pricing, saying, "If you look on an annual basis, as a lifesaving drug, to have a WAC [wholesale acquisition cost] price at just under $600, I think that you can see it falls as not an expensive product.” You can believe whatever you want about the evil biotechs and the greedy CEOs...facts are fact. If you want to go after the biggest cost drivers in the EpiPen, Mylan isn't the place to start. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:33:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Try it when you can't feel your fingers, have tunnel vision, confusion and disorientation sets in, and your heart rate is Palp over zero. The Epi-Pen is a solution because of the delivery system. Any tard can apply it, and it is workable for those disabled, disoriented, and alone, to self inject. Fuck up the dose with Epi, or fail to get the job done, and you're dead. It sounds like you're a volunteer to demonstrate it's not needed. Dibs on your stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: some desperate patients who can't afford EpiPens anymore have turned to filling syringes with epinephrine themselves — an extremely tricky and potentially dangerous alternative. LOL its not that hard to fill a syringe. Try it when you can't feel your fingers, have tunnel vision, confusion and disorientation sets in, and your heart rate is Palp over zero. The Epi-Pen is a solution because of the delivery system. Any tard can apply it, and it is workable for those disabled, disoriented, and alone, to self inject. Fuck up the dose with Epi, or fail to get the job done, and you're dead. It sounds like you're a volunteer to demonstrate it's not needed. Dibs on your stuff.  |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:35:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New announcement. Price cut by 50% http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/293273-epipen-maker-lowers-price-in-response-to-uproar Nice try, Mylan, but we still hate you. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:36:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Some people have alluded to the validity of Heather Bresch's (aka Manchin's daughter) the CEO's Master Degree from WVU, here is the info they are talking about.
West Virginia University M.B.A. controversy The West Virginia University M.B.A. controversy concerns the granting of an EMBA by West Virginia University to Mylan CEO Heather Bresch in 2007. An independent panel later concluded that the university changed its records, and granted the degree despite incomplete graduation requirements. West Virginia University's president Michael Garrison, its provost Gerald Lang, and its business school dean R. Stephen Sears, resigned as a result of the investigation, and the university's general counsel and the president's communications officer relinquished those roles. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:47:38 PM EDT
[#46]
Apparently the cost of epipens in Canada (from the same manufacturer as the US epipen) is one-third of the U.S. Cost.
Of course, it is illegal to purchase an epipen in Canada (made by the same manufacturer as the US epipen), and bring it into the US. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:53:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The f*ck? Did you just call me out?  I'm telling you a cheaper way to do it. Go see your family doctor... you can get a prescription for the epi, and some insulin syringes. If you can read, do basic math (and generally aren't a complete doofus) you can set up your own injections. Cripes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If I could get ampules for 5 bucks like TheGrayMan, I'd put one in my frige in case one of my friends has a reaction. But, alas, a poor ignant prole that I am, that is only available for purchase to people with special clearances.  The f*ck? Did you just call me out? I'm telling you a cheaper way to do it. Go see your family doctor... you can get a prescription for the epi, and some insulin syringes. If you can read, do basic math (and generally aren't a complete doofus) you can set up your own injections. Cripes. No, I'm calling out the system. You're totally cool. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:54:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some people have alluded to the validity of Heather Bresch's (aka Manchin's daughter) the CEO's Master Degree from WVU, here is the info they are talking about. West Virginia University M.B.A. controversy The West Virginia University M.B.A. controversy concerns the granting of an EMBA by West Virginia University to Mylan CEO Heather Bresch in 2007. An independent panel later concluded that the university changed its records, and granted the degree despite incomplete graduation requirements. West Virginia University's president Michael Garrison, its provost Gerald Lang, and its business school dean R. Stephen Sears, resigned as a result of the investigation, and the university's general counsel and the president's communications officer relinquished those roles. So her education was a fraud as well? Delightful.
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:03:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have stumbled into the truth, inadvertently. Once it is INDUSTRIAL (commercial) and crosses state lines, you are in FDA territory. Doing this will be deemed "remanufacturing" and you have invited the man up your ass. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, it would. However you have to have a doctor willing to prescribe it, and take the potential liability that would come his way if you screwed up. Further, there actually is some cleverness required to do a sterile filling so that bacteria don't get into the syringe while you transfer it from the sterile vial. That is the main impediment to pre-filling the device. You have stumbled into the truth, inadvertently. Once it is INDUSTRIAL (commercial) and crosses state lines, you are in FDA territory. Doing this will be deemed "remanufacturing" and you have invited the man up your ass.  |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:49:08 PM EDT
[#50]
OP is an expired epi pen really not usable?
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