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Posted: 8/22/2016 12:56:38 PM EDT
[#1]
granted I haven't even seen a epi pen in a long time
but I thought protocol was one epi pen and its with that person at all times why 4? and dont they expire? |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:00:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Protocol is two to buy more time for the ambulance to arrive, since one only works for 5-7 minutes. Two at home, two in backpack would be my guess.
Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:03:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Protocol is two to buy more time for the ambulance to arrive, since one only works for 5-7 minutes. Two at home, two in backpack would be my guess. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I don't remember exactly but somthing like they needed at least 2 and it was 4 to a pack or somthing like that. I think what really got my goat was that the woman who started the conversation, had a child when she was right out of high school and was on medicare and WIC and all of the other tax payer stuff. So, I would expect that after receiving a metric shit ton of free medical care from the govt, that poking out 500-1000 for a life saving drug would be a small thing to ask. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:05:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Wow, check out this quote from an article.
At the doctor’s office the next day, a nurse told Vialet De Montbel something she had never heard before: For about $20, she could buy a couple of glass ampules of epinephrine and regular syringes from a local pharmacy, and get the syringes filled with the epinephrine at a doctor’s office. holy shit, an actual work around. 
I like this guy But Lockey said syringes make sense for patients who can’t afford the EpiPen. “Everyone wants to drive around in a Cadillac,” he said, “but not everybody does.” |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:13:52 PM EDT
[#5]
The real question is "Why the fuck is an epi-pen so much money...?".
You go and pick up an epi-pen for your pet at the vets, and it's 25 bucks, tops. Human-rated, probably filled on the same lines at the same company...? 250. Explain that, please. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:16:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The real question is "Why the fuck is an epi-pen so much money...?". You go and pick up an epi-pen for your pet at the vets, and it's 25 bucks, tops. Human-rated, probably filled on the same lines at the same company...? 250. Explain that, please. Malpractice insurance. Same reason the colon reduction surgery + two months of follow-up care (antibiotics, painkillers, weekly sonograms, boarding, etc) at the vet for my reticulated python earlier this year was only $4600. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:30:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryI don't remember exactly but somthing like they needed at least 2 and it was 4 to a pack or somthing like that. Each box contains two live pens and a trainer, so two boxes for four pens. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:30:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
granted I haven't even seen a epi pen in a long time but I thought protocol was one epi pen and its with that person at all times why 4? and dont they expire? They probably have lots of wasp nests in their eaves and the kids playhouse. Until the Gov comes and removes them they need more epi pens. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:45:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Is the epinephrine content in Epipens high enough to make them worth anything to meth producers, especially from FSA suppliers who can sob their way into a resupply for "my kid lost/broke his" at taxpayer expense?
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:52:42 PM EDT
[#10]
the company that makes epipens just raised the price 400%.
I would be pissed too if I was paying one price for a long time and rather than the price go up incrementally it suddenly went up 400% tell your friend there is a generic for epipen called Adrenaclick. it costs about $142 cash money so through insurance I would imagine it would be cheaper if they covered anything at all. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:57:56 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 8/22/2016 8:38:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the epinephrine content in Epipens high enough to make them worth anything to meth producers, especially from FSA suppliers who can sob their way into a resupply for "my kid lost/broke his" at taxpayer expense? Epipen's only competitor was just withdrawn from the market, so Epipens have gone up in price due to increased demand. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 8:46:53 PM EDT
[#13]
It's not entitlement mentality. This commodity device has gone up between 4x and 6x since 2009. There is no shortage of materials, labor, production, capacity, insurance liablilty, change in demand, legislation or anything else to 'splain the increase.
So ya, going from $200 to $1000+ is something worth bitching about. At some point people are going to die specifically because of this price increase. ETA: typical monopolistic behavior. Epi Pen has 90% of the world-wide market. cite (powerpoint pdf) (slide 8) |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 8:00:57 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not entitlement mentality. This commodity device has gone up between 4x and 6x since 2009. There is no shortage of materials, labor, production, capacity, insurance liablilty, change in demand, legislation or anything else to 'splain the increase. So why doesn't some other company make and sell them? From the above it seems that there is a cheap workaround available. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:27:46 AM EDT
[#15]
Bump
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:43:27 AM EDT
[#16]
The key to the epi pen is not the epinephrine, but the injector. Epinephrine in the epi pen costs a dollar--it's the delivery system that is the key, as the dose is exactly correct. WIth a syringe and do-it-yourself, there's a risk in injecting the epinephrine into a vein, which I understand is a bad thing.
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Posted: 8/25/2016 7:47:59 AM EDT
[#17]
As a 50+ year old man that found out this summer he is allergic to great black wasp stings I was shocked at what the cost of two epi-pens was. And they expire after one year.
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:23:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
So, I have some acquaintances on the ole BookFace. Decent folks, but they tend to have a entitled mentality. For example, one of their kids is allergic to bee stings/nuts or somthing like that. Well they were bitching that medicaid or what ever is making them pay $1000 for 4 epi pens. Ok, I'd bitch at the price also but this is where the logic wanders off into the ditch with Yeager. On the one hand, last year full price for two packs of epipens would have been $200 or something like that. The Conservative response would be "if you got a job with decent insurance, you would be paying $15 or whatever. Sometimes you get the job you need, not the job you want". The Democrat response would be "That's outrageous! You should write to Obama and demand he nullify the patent via executive order, or at least cancel some high-dollar military project to pay for epipens. It's for the children!" The pragmatic response would be "well, that's what happens when a drug company buys a patent and uses it to fund other projects. R&D isn't free. At some point the patent will expire and you can get generic epipens for $50. In the meantime, we're not talking about gummy vitamins your kid needs every day. It's an emergency first aid tool." |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:31:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a 50+ year old man that found out this summer he is allergic to great black wasp stings I was shocked at what the cost of two epi-pens was. And they expire after one year. So do z-packs. The epinephrine does lose bioavailability over time, but it doesn't spontaneously hit 0 right at the one year mark. As long as the pen isn't cloudy or have precipitates, there is still available epinephrine in the dose for several years after the expiration date. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:40:20 AM EDT
[#20]
You can thank Obama and this lady for the absurd prices on EpiPens now. $5 in materials and medication selling for $300+
http://fortune.com/2016/08/24/mylan-ceo-epipen-heather-bresch/ My boss needed his this weekend when he got tagged by 3 yellow jackets... |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:42:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
granted I haven't even seen a epi pen in a long time but I thought protocol was one epi pen and its with that person at all times why 4? and dont they expire? sometimes it takes longer than the epi lasts to get to the hospital, or for the benadryl to kick in, so you need multiple doses. most people with a serious allergy will carry at least two. and they expire relatively quickly, and have to be kept cool, and usually you want one for home, one to carry, one at school, etc. you might have also heard that the company that sells epi pens jacked the price up and the ceo gave herself an $18m raise after they became the only option in the market, so there's that. epi-pen costs about $4 to make, btw. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:52:06 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:52:20 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sometimes it takes longer than the epi lasts to get to the hospital, or for the benadryl to kick in, so you need multiple doses. most people with a serious allergy will carry at least two. and they expire relatively quickly, and have to be kept cool, and usually you want one for home, one to carry, one at school, etc. you might have also heard that the company that sells epi pens jacked the price up and the ceo gave herself an $18m raise after they became the only option in the market, so there's that. epi-pen costs about $4 to make, btw. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
granted I haven't even seen a epi pen in a long time but I thought protocol was one epi pen and its with that person at all times why 4? and dont they expire? sometimes it takes longer than the epi lasts to get to the hospital, or for the benadryl to kick in, so you need multiple doses. most people with a serious allergy will carry at least two. and they expire relatively quickly, and have to be kept cool, and usually you want one for home, one to carry, one at school, etc. you might have also heard that the company that sells epi pens jacked the price up and the ceo gave herself an $18m raise after they became the only option in the market, so there's that. epi-pen costs about $4 to make, btw. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:53:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The real question is "Why the fuck is an epi-pen so much money...?". You go and pick up an epi-pen for your pet at the vets, and it's 25 bucks, tops. Human-rated, probably filled on the same lines at the same company...? 250. Explain that, please. Man-rating, it's not just for rockets... Because if your pet's epi-pen fails, no person dies, no one goes to jail, and the company doesn't get sued out of existence. Mike |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:55:09 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sometimes it takes longer than the epi lasts to get to the hospital, or for the benadryl to kick in, so you need multiple doses. most people with a serious allergy will carry at least two. and they expire relatively quickly, and have to be kept cool, and usually you want one for home, one to carry, one at school, etc. you might have also heard that the company that sells epi pens jacked the price up and the ceo gave herself an $18m raise after they became the only option in the market, so there's that. epi-pen costs about $4 to make, btw. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
granted I haven't even seen a epi pen in a long time but I thought protocol was one epi pen and its with that person at all times why 4? and dont they expire? sometimes it takes longer than the epi lasts to get to the hospital, or for the benadryl to kick in, so you need multiple doses. most people with a serious allergy will carry at least two. and they expire relatively quickly, and have to be kept cool, and usually you want one for home, one to carry, one at school, etc. you might have also heard that the company that sells epi pens jacked the price up and the ceo gave herself an $18m raise after they became the only option in the market, so there's that. epi-pen costs about $4 to make, btw. The CEO is the daughter of Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV). After the SHTF Mancin, his daughter and Mylan had "no comment". There are alternatives sold in Europe which are cheaper. The FDA hasn't approved them for sale in the US. Despite a 1 billion dollar increase in their budget last year the time to approve drugs for sale has increased by some 50%. Would an online Canadian pharmacy be an option? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:55:15 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the company that makes epipens just raised the price 400%. I would be pissed too if I was paying one price for a long time and rather than the price go up incrementally it suddenly went up 400% tell your friend there is a generic for epipen called Adrenaclick. it costs about $142 cash money so through insurance I would imagine it would be cheaper if they covered anything at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
the company that makes epipens just raised the price 400%. I would be pissed too if I was paying one price for a long time and rather than the price go up incrementally it suddenly went up 400% tell your friend there is a generic for epipen called Adrenaclick. it costs about $142 cash money so through insurance I would imagine it would be cheaper if they covered anything at all. There is a generic, but Epipen has a patent on the delivery device so the generic isn't quite the same. Quoted:
It's not entitlement mentality. This commodity device has gone up between 4x and 6x since 2009. There is no shortage of materials, labor, production, capacity, insurance liablilty, change in demand, legislation or anything else to 'splain the increase. So ya, going from $200 to $1000+ is something worth bitching about. At some point people are going to die specifically because of this price increase. ETA: typical monopolistic behavior. Epi Pen has 90% of the world-wide market. cite (powerpoint pdf) (slide 8) Yup, Mylan knows it's a monopoly and have been rewarding themselves handsomly for it. Quoted:
So why doesn't some other company make and sell them? From the above it seems that there is a cheap workaround available. There are cheap workarounds. Epipen has a patent on the injector and no one else can make it. Therefore, they have a monopoly on this specific delivery method. However, there are alternative delivery methods. Here comes the fun...read this news article and this news article. Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, a Democrat whose daughter relies on EpiPen, urged the Senate Judiciary Committee to investigate the price increase of the medication, calling it "unjustified."
Meanwhile, the daughter of Sen. Joe Manchin, the Democrat of West Virginia, has a very different personal connection. His daughter Heather Bresch heads Mylan, the company that produces EpiPens. EpiPen prices aren't the only thing to jump at Mylan. Executive salaries have also seen a stratospheric uptick.
Proxy filings show that from 2007 to 2015, Mylan CEO Heather Bresch's total compensation went from $2,453,456 to $18,931,068, a 671 percent increase. During the same period, the company raised EpiPen prices, with the average wholesale price going from $56.64 to $317.82, a 461 percent increase, according to data provided by Connecture. In 2007 the company bought the rights to EpiPen, a device used to provide emergency epinephrine to stop a potentially fatal allergic reaction and began raising its price. In 2008 and 2009, Mylan raised the price by 5 percent. At the end of 2009 it tried out a 19 percent hike. The years 2010-2013 saw a succession of 10 percent price hikes. And from the fourth quarter of 2013 to the second quarter of 2016, Mylan steadily raised EpiPen prices 15 percent every other quarter. The stock price more than tripled, going from $13.29 in 2007 to a high of $47.59 in 2016. And while sales of the life-saving drug rose to provide 40 percent of the company's operating profits in 2014, as Bloomberg reported, salaries for other Mylan executives also went up. In 2015, President Rajiv Malik's base pay increased 11.1 percent to $1 million, and Chief Commercial Officer Anthony Mauro saw his jump 13.6 percent to $625,000. After Mylan acquired EpiPen the company also amped up its lobbying efforts. In 2008, its reported spending on lobbying went from $270,000 to $1.2 million, according to opensecrets.org. Legislation that enhanced its bottom line followed, with the FDA changing its recommendations in 2010 that two EpiPens be sold in a package instead of one and that they be prescribed for at-risk patients, not just those with confirmed allergies. And in 2013 the government passed a law to give block grants to states that required they be stocked in public schools. Epipens aren't the only drugs Mylan is price gouging on lately... Sounds like Mylan's CEO Heather Bresch is using her father's connections as a U.S. Senator to line her pockets and price gouge the rest of us... |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 8:58:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much did the patent cost to develop? How many millions spent on clinical trials? Etc Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
granted I haven't even seen a epi pen in a long time but I thought protocol was one epi pen and its with that person at all times why 4? and dont they expire? sometimes it takes longer than the epi lasts to get to the hospital, or for the benadryl to kick in, so you need multiple doses. most people with a serious allergy will carry at least two. and they expire relatively quickly, and have to be kept cool, and usually you want one for home, one to carry, one at school, etc. you might have also heard that the company that sells epi pens jacked the price up and the ceo gave herself an $18m raise after they became the only option in the market, so there's that. epi-pen costs about $4 to make, btw. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Clinical trials of what? Epinephrine has been around for 100 years, and the latest EpiPen has been around since 2012. The only real difference from the old one was the little sound module up top to give verbal instructions. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:11:11 AM EDT
[#28]
It's a blip in the free market system
Epi pen manufacturer raised the price. If there's a market, another manufacturer will undercut that price if it's possible to make money (I believe it is). It's been all over the news with people whining about how they had no right to raise the price on "life saving devices". Blah blah. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:14:27 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there's a market, another manufacturer will undercut that price if it's possible to make money (I believe it is). Kinda hard to sell auto-injectors when the one company producing them has patents and won't license anything out. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:27:36 AM EDT
[#30]
Filling up marine fuel in the nice part of town: "Hey, are those for a boat?..." and a nice friendly convo about boating and fishing
Filling up marine fuel in the ghetto part of town: "Hey, you gonna give me a gallon? You ain't gonna help me get home? Look at all dat gas you got." 
With a two year old in a car seat.
OP you and I both know the financial system is stacked against the little guy. When the country is finally pressured to reform this trainwreck, which mentality is going to win? |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:48:56 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow, check out this quote from an article. holy shit, an actual work around. I like this guy Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow, check out this quote from an article. At the doctor’s office the next day, a nurse told Vialet De Montbel something she had never heard before: For about $20, she could buy a couple of glass ampules of epinephrine and regular syringes from a local pharmacy, and get the syringes filled with the epinephrine at a doctor’s office. holy shit, an actual work around. I like this guy But Lockey said syringes make sense for patients who can’t afford the EpiPen. "Everyone wants to drive around in a Cadillac,” he said, "but not everybody does.” The more you try to act smart about this the more ignorant you look. Schools require the EpiPen, simple as that. Also the EpiPens are only good for 1 year. Imagine spending $1,000 every single year on something that you never use but have to have since the school requires it. Even if you have a loaded syringe at home the school, day care, baby sitter...etc is not going to accept it. I'm not saying they should be given for free but they are a major expense, they are required, and they are only good for one year. Someone bitching about the cost of an EpiPen has a valid complaint. The EpiPen is a branded product, no generics even though the solution can be had cheaply in generic form. The delivery method is patented which is what creates all the cost. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 9:51:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Protocol is two to buy more time for the ambulance to arrive, since one only works for 5-7 minutes. Two at home, two in backpack would be my guess. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Thanks for those insights. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:01:59 AM EDT
[#33]
All proprietary intellectual property should be free and widely available to whoever wants it.
It's the Communist way. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:07:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kinda hard to sell auto-injectors when the one company producing them has patents and won't license anything out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If there's a market, another manufacturer will undercut that price if it's possible to make money (I believe it is). Kinda hard to sell auto-injectors when the one company producing them has patents and won't license anything out. There are work arounds. I've built prototypes for one auto delivery system for a small start up company. There's another company who already has a work around ready for market and it's being held up by FDA....imagine that. Looks like Epipen issued in 08, so, yeah, for that device there will be some time to wait. I thought it had issued much earlier than that. Clinicals were clear back in 87. Which doesn't make much sense that the USPTO would issue 30 years after disclosure of tech. Something seems pretty fishy about all of that. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:09:06 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like Epipen issued in 08, so, yeah, for that device there will be some time to wait. Right after the company was bought out, imagine that... 
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:09:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The more you try to act smart about this the more ignorant you look. Schools require the EpiPen, simple as that. Also the EpiPens are only good for 1 year. Imagine spending $1,000 every single year on something that you never use but have to have since the school requires it. Even if you have a loaded syringe at home the school, day care, baby sitter...etc is not going to accept it. I'm not saying they should be given for free but they are a major expense, they are required, and they are only good for one year. Someone bitching about the cost of an EpiPen has a valid complaint. The EpiPen is a branded product, no generics even though the solution can be had cheaply in generic form. The One delivery method is patented which is what creates all the cost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wow, check out this quote from an article. At the doctor’s office the next day, a nurse told Vialet De Montbel something she had never heard before: For about $20, she could buy a couple of glass ampules of epinephrine and regular syringes from a local pharmacy, and get the syringes filled with the epinephrine at a doctor’s office. holy shit, an actual work around.
I like this guy But Lockey said syringes make sense for patients who can’t afford the EpiPen. "Everyone wants to drive around in a Cadillac,” he said, "but not everybody does.” The more you try to act smart about this the more ignorant you look. Schools require the EpiPen, simple as that. Also the EpiPens are only good for 1 year. Imagine spending $1,000 every single year on something that you never use but have to have since the school requires it. Even if you have a loaded syringe at home the school, day care, baby sitter...etc is not going to accept it. I'm not saying they should be given for free but they are a major expense, they are required, and they are only good for one year. Someone bitching about the cost of an EpiPen has a valid complaint. The EpiPen is a branded product, no generics even though the solution can be had cheaply in generic form. The One delivery method is patented which is what creates all the cost. I haven't read the claims on their patent. But, there's almost always a work around. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:12:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right after the company was bought out, imagine that... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks like Epipen issued in 08, so, yeah, for that device there will be some time to wait. Right after the company was bought out, imagine that... I suspect they changed something and had a new patent issued. IIRC, they added some computer stuff, made it talk, etc. I'll lay dollars to donuts the original patent has run out and can be copied. You can't expose technology (clinical trials) and wait 30 years for a patent to be applied for. The USPTO will call it "Existing tech which would be known by any reasonable person in that field". I've been down this road. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:15:54 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't read the claims on their patent. But, there's almost always a work around. An FDA-approved workaround? One that's not sufficiently derivative so as to avoid an ass-raping from Epi-Pen's lawyers? And doesn't take YEARS to make it through the approval process? This just looks bad... it appears the company is exploiting its government-approved monopoly position... and that doesn't appear to be an unfair characterization. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:18:39 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't read the claims on their patent. But, there's almost always a work around. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wow, check out this quote from an article. At the doctor’s office the next day, a nurse told Vialet De Montbel something she had never heard before: For about $20, she could buy a couple of glass ampules of epinephrine and regular syringes from a local pharmacy, and get the syringes filled with the epinephrine at a doctor’s office. holy shit, an actual work around. I like this guy But Lockey said syringes make sense for patients who can’t afford the EpiPen. "Everyone wants to drive around in a Cadillac,” he said, "but not everybody does.” The more you try to act smart about this the more ignorant you look. Schools require the EpiPen, simple as that. Also the EpiPens are only good for 1 year. Imagine spending $1,000 every single year on something that you never use but have to have since the school requires it. Even if you have a loaded syringe at home the school, day care, baby sitter...etc is not going to accept it. I'm not saying they should be given for free but they are a major expense, they are required, and they are only good for one year. Someone bitching about the cost of an EpiPen has a valid complaint. The EpiPen is a branded product, no generics even though the solution can be had cheaply in generic form. The One delivery method is patented which is what creates all the cost. I haven't read the claims on their patent. But, there's almost always a work around. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:24:12 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't read the claims on their patent. But, there's almost always a work around. Didn't someone already mention that the ampule is $20? So just add a needle and syringe. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:25:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seems like the first work-around should be developing a method to drain, refill and recertify EpiPens when they expire. The delivery mechanism is still good - it's the cheap drug that needs to be replaced. If the company wants to screw people over, they should never get a second chance to screw them again. Now THAT is the kind of outside-the-box thinking we need! |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:32:50 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: . . . but this is where the logic wanders off into the ditch with Yeager." Ha-ha . . best comment of the day. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:35:48 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So why doesn't some other company make and sell them? From the above it seems that there is a cheap workaround available. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's not entitlement mentality. This commodity device has gone up between 4x and 6x since 2009. There is no shortage of materials, labor, production, capacity, insurance liablilty, change in demand, legislation or anything else to 'splain the increase. So why doesn't some other company make and sell them? From the above it seems that there is a cheap workaround available. LOL Same reason there are not new 22LR plants popping up everywhere. Takes too much money by the time you factor in the government bureaucracy... its no longer a true free market
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:54:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Government for the win. Fda is what allows that sanctioned monopoly to exist. If I was dependent on Epi, I would go the pre filled syringe route from amps of Epi.
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:54:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Mine expired July 16. yay
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:58:20 AM EDT
[#46]
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The more you try to act smart about this the more ignorant you look. Schools require the EpiPen, simple as that. Also the EpiPens are only good for 1 year. Imagine spending $1,000 every single year on something that you never use but have to have since the school requires it. Even if you have a loaded syringe at home the school, day care, baby sitter...etc is not going to accept it. I'm not saying they should be given for free but they are a major expense, they are required, and they are only good for one year. Someone bitching about the cost of an EpiPen has a valid complaint. The EpiPen is a branded product, no generics even though the solution can be had cheaply in generic form. The delivery method is patented which is what creates all the cost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wow, check out this quote from an article. At the doctor’s office the next day, a nurse told Vialet De Montbel something she had never heard before: For about $20, she could buy a couple of glass ampules of epinephrine and regular syringes from a local pharmacy, and get the syringes filled with the epinephrine at a doctor’s office. holy shit, an actual work around.
I like this guy But Lockey said syringes make sense for patients who can’t afford the EpiPen. "Everyone wants to drive around in a Cadillac,” he said, "but not everybody does.” The more you try to act smart about this the more ignorant you look. Schools require the EpiPen, simple as that. Also the EpiPens are only good for 1 year. Imagine spending $1,000 every single year on something that you never use but have to have since the school requires it. Even if you have a loaded syringe at home the school, day care, baby sitter...etc is not going to accept it. I'm not saying they should be given for free but they are a major expense, they are required, and they are only good for one year. Someone bitching about the cost of an EpiPen has a valid complaint. The EpiPen is a branded product, no generics even though the solution can be had cheaply in generic form. The delivery method is patented which is what creates all the cost. I spend thousands on schools every year and don't have a kid. Talk about a ****ing. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 10:59:53 AM EDT
[#47]
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An FDA-approved workaround? One that's not sufficiently derivative so as to avoid an ass-raping from Epi-Pen's lawyers? And doesn't take YEARS to make it through the approval process? This just looks bad... it appears the company is exploiting its government-approved monopoly position... and that doesn't appear to be an unfair characterization. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I haven't read the claims on their patent. But, there's almost always a work around. An FDA-approved workaround? One that's not sufficiently derivative so as to avoid an ass-raping from Epi-Pen's lawyers? And doesn't take YEARS to make it through the approval process? This just looks bad... it appears the company is exploiting its government-approved monopoly position... and that doesn't appear to be an unfair characterization. Totally agree. Government is complicit and just as dirty as the company, it would appear. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 11:01:35 AM EDT
[#48]
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Now THAT is the kind of outside-the-box thinking we need! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Seems like the first work-around should be developing a method to drain, refill and recertify EpiPens when they expire. The delivery mechanism is still good - it's the cheap drug that needs to be replaced. If the company wants to screw people over, they should never get a second chance to screw them again. Now THAT is the kind of outside-the-box thinking we need! It is, but do you know the hoops you'd have to jump through for the FDA to OK that? I like the idea. The .gov doesn't care about helping people, though. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 11:03:48 AM EDT
[#49]
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The real question is "Why the fuck is an epi-pen so much money...?". You go and pick up an epi-pen for your pet at the vets, and it's 25 bucks, tops. Human-rated, probably filled on the same lines at the same company...? 250. Explain that, please. Fox had a story yesterday about it...less than $2 production cost per pen...sold in packs of 2. In 2009 it was $57 for a two pack. Senator Joe Manchins daughter buys the company that produces them and over the next several years they increase 400-700-1000% all the while she moves the company overseas to take advantage of tax legislation passed by daddy... and give herself and her CFO a 500% raise, she's making something like $19M a year now...still $2 bucks a pop to produce... |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 11:08:09 AM EDT
[#50]
We carry the ampules and syringes in our big issued EMS kits. I have 4 ampules in my backcountry rescue kit as well. Our medical director is good with them and the cost of epi-pens, training units and yearly expiration makes it the obvious choice. It's not rocket science to observe the signs and symptoms that would indicate an epi treatment. But the injection is another story. We train yearly. For the average family member, teacher, guardian or big brother or little sister, however, making the treatment decision, getting the meds and syringes out, breaking the tiny glass ampule, drawing up and administering the drug would be scary as hell. Not to mention, people screaming and crying with sharp needles laying around. |
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