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Posted: 7/28/2016 11:56:03 PM EDT
[#1]
First I would get an ROV and go develop the debris fields from the sonar records already shot.
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Posted: 7/28/2016 11:57:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Unlimited funds? Everywhere I knew it wasn't
It would be cool to find though. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:03:00 AM EDT
[#3]
They're in the Gobi Desert.
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:09:16 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:09:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Bermuda Triangle
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:12:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Didn't they find these planes already?
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:19:55 AM EDT
[#7]
I'd buy an island and retire. Plane crashed and is gone. Shit happens. I don't need closure.
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:22:27 AM EDT
[#8]
Vegas, Bangkok, Monte Carlo, Vancouver...
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:26:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't they find these planes already? No. They've found Avengers, but the tail numbers were from an earlier flight. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:30:28 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. They've found Avengers, but the tail numbers were from an earlier flight. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Didn't they find these planes already? No. They've found Avengers, but the tail numbers were from an earlier flight. lol So..how many of these things did we lose?
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:33:15 AM EDT
[#11]
In the Okefenokee Swamp, not in the Atlantic.
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:35:07 AM EDT
[#12]
... haven't you seen Close Encounters of the Third Kind
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:39:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Unlimited funds?
Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out.
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:41:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:48:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol So..how many of these things did we lose? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Didn't they find these planes already? No. They've found Avengers, but the tail numbers were from an earlier flight. lol So..how many of these things did we lose? The old saying was "One a day in Tampa Bay". Internet says 14,000 planes lost to training in continental US during WW2. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:48:47 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the Okefenokee Swamp, not in the Atlantic. 
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Posted: 7/29/2016 2:15:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Interesting thing about that, The Mariner that exploded. My grandfather was one the the mechanics on them. He HATED that aircraft, always said it was deathtrap. He loved PBY's though.
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Posted: 7/29/2016 3:00:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Since you can calculate the fuel range and the radio range of the aircraft, it shouldn't be too difficult to find them. The water is a couple thousand feet deep in the area they probably wrecked. They did not fly south and magically end up over the Florida Keys. You'd have to be blind not to notice that Florida, Miami, etc., was on your right wing instead of your tail for an hour when you were supposed to be heading out over the ocean.
The Navy could talk to them on the radio, but they couldn't receive them on the IFF. That and the range of the aircraft draw a small and a large circle that shows where they might be. They're in there, probably to the north. It would have been interesting to get John Craven to estimate a position for them while he was still alive. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 3:05:00 AM EDT
[#19]
I'd put more effort into looking for samsquanches.
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Posted: 7/29/2016 3:06:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since you can calculate the fuel range and the radio range of the aircraft, it shouldn't be too difficult to find them. The water is a couple thousand feet deep in the area they probably wrecked. They did not fly south and magically end up over the Florida Keys. You'd have to be blind not to notice that Florida, Miami, etc., was on your right wing instead of your tail for an hour when you were supposed to be heading out over the ocean. The Navy could talk to them on the radio, but they couldn't receive them on the IFF. That and the range of the aircraft draw a small and a large circle that shows where they might be. They're in there, probably to the north. It would have been interesting to get John Craven to estimate a position for them while he was still alive. Their commander was a fucking idiot...or maybe it was UFOs. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 3:52:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol So..how many of these things did we lose? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Didn't they find these planes already? No. They've found Avengers, but the tail numbers were from an earlier flight. lol So..how many of these things did we lose? The Avenger was a very popular aircraft during WWII; it's not surprising that a lot of them were lost in the ocean around Florida. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 3:54:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Dirk Pitt beat you to it. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 4:01:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since you can calculate the fuel range and the radio range of the aircraft, it shouldn't be too difficult to find them. The water is a couple thousand feet deep in the area they probably wrecked. They did not fly south and magically end up over the Florida Keys. You'd have to be blind not to notice that Florida, Miami, etc., was on your right wing instead of your tail for an hour when you were supposed to be heading out over the ocean. The Navy could talk to them on the radio, but they couldn't receive them on the IFF. That and the range of the aircraft draw a small and a large circle that shows where they might be. They're in there, probably to the north. It would have been interesting to get John Craven to estimate a position for them while he was still alive. Quite literally, that was the case. The air over Florida, particularly the Everglades, was very hazy due to fires in the 'Glades. It wouldn't have been difficult at all to lose sight of land. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 4:03:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're in the Gobi Desert. SONORAN DESERT, get your story straight! |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 4:03:29 AM EDT
[#25]
I'd probably just wind up with a bunch of NFA guns and ammo and no planes.
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Posted: 7/29/2016 7:33:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol So..how many of these things did we lose? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Didn't they find these planes already? No. They've found Avengers, but the tail numbers were from an earlier flight. lol So..how many of these things did we lose? Oddly enough a few. IIRC there was a NAS training station nearby and every so often a pilot would misjudge fuel and or navigate poorly. Then Oops would occur. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 9:05:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't they find these planes already? Pieces have washed ashore. Circulation patterns hindcast from the recovery locations could reveal their origin. Not in an X marks the spot fashion, but identifying a new place to search. The search has already cost a couple priceless sonars which were lost after seabed contact. one was a synthetic aperture system developed here in Seattle by a small company based in Montana. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 9:08:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since you can calculate the fuel range and the radio range of the aircraft, it shouldn't be too difficult to find them. The water is a couple thousand feet deep in the area they probably wrecked. They did not fly south and magically end up over the Florida Keys. You'd have to be blind not to notice that Florida, Miami, etc., was on your right wing instead of your tail for an hour when you were supposed to be heading out over the ocean. The Navy could talk to them on the radio, but they couldn't receive them on the IFF. That and the range of the aircraft draw a small and a large circle that shows where they might be. They're in there, probably to the north. It would have been interesting to get John Craven to estimate a position for them while he was still alive. The magnitude of such a broad search really would take unlimited funds. On the order of the entire world's offshore oil industry devoted to search. The ocean is a big place and finding something like an aircraft debris field is painstaking work. The original search specification called for a sonar able to detect 1 meter objects. Assuming the plane ditched at high speed it likely broke up and the largest remaining parts would be engines, landing gear, and seats. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 9:09:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd probably just wind up with a bunch of NFA guns and ammo and no planes. At least you would have something to show instead of a bunch of burned fuel, expended time and lost or broken search sonars and deck gear. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 9:38:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the Okefenokee Swamp, not in the Atlantic. No. Gain is an idiot. A poor researcher, too. His theory fails to account for some very basic issues. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 9:48:38 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 9:57:03 AM EDT
[#32]
I have been following this ever since I was a kid in grade school.
I did a book report on it back then , and it never forgot. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:03:50 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'd have to expand that wall quite a bit. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. 
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:09:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Duh. I just realized I got pulled offsides and was thinking of the wrong search.
Yeah, the Florida search area would be much smaller. Problem there is, wrecks tend to get covered and uncovered by sand driven by storms and currents. So if you pass over them at the wrong time they might be buried. Besides, didn't they find those planes? |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:10:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. So far as I'm aware, anyways, none of them have been reported found, unless one counts Hawes' discovery and he was unable to identify the ship. It could well have been any of the three, even if it is possibly more likely that it was the Cyclops. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:12:26 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Duh. I just realized I got pulled offsides and was thinking of the wrong search. Yeah, the Florida search area would be much smaller. Problem there is, wrecks tend to get covered and uncovered by sand driven by storms and currents. So if you pass over them at the wrong time they might be buried. Besides, didn't they find those planes? They've "found them" several times. They've never actually found a plane from Flight 19, however. By all accounts, they stuck together until the very end. They should all have come to rest in the same general area. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:12:27 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Vegas, Bangkok, Monte Carlo, Vancouver... this. You never know where the wreckage might have ended up, so best to be thorough. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:16:21 AM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:19:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They've "found them" several times. They've never actually found a plane from Flight 19, however. By all accounts, they stuck together until the very end. They should all have come to rest in the same general area. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Duh. I just realized I got pulled offsides and was thinking of the wrong search. Yeah, the Florida search area would be much smaller. Problem there is, wrecks tend to get covered and uncovered by sand driven by storms and currents. So if you pass over them at the wrong time they might be buried. Besides, didn't they find those planes? They've "found them" several times. They've never actually found a plane from Flight 19, however. By all accounts, they stuck together until the very end. They should all have come to rest in the same general area. They've been down there a long time. Best case, they got silted in and were preserved to be washed out in a storm and discovered by some extremely lucky soul. Worst case they have been destroyed by corrosion and currents. The really deep ocean is a more benign place, if they are deep they may be sitting intact. If they ditched hard enough to break up, they are lost. But AFAIK there was no debris found so that suggests they ditched intact. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:27:05 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'd have to expand that wall quite a bit. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. Couple thousand feet of water? Try 15,000+. It's freaking deep out there. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:28:38 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s158.photobucket.com/user/WitchDoctor02/media/screenshot-lrg-30.png.html" target="_blank">http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t113/WitchDoctor02/screenshot-lrg-30.png</a> 
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:29:59 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They've been down there a long time. Best case, they got silted in and were preserved to be washed out in a storm and discovered by some extremely lucky soul. Worst case they have been destroyed by corrosion and currents. The really deep ocean is a more benign place, if they are deep they may be sitting intact. If they ditched hard enough to break up, they are lost. But AFAIK there was no debris found so that suggests they ditched intact. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Duh. I just realized I got pulled offsides and was thinking of the wrong search. Yeah, the Florida search area would be much smaller. Problem there is, wrecks tend to get covered and uncovered by sand driven by storms and currents. So if you pass over them at the wrong time they might be buried. Besides, didn't they find those planes? They've "found them" several times. They've never actually found a plane from Flight 19, however. By all accounts, they stuck together until the very end. They should all have come to rest in the same general area. They've been down there a long time. Best case, they got silted in and were preserved to be washed out in a storm and discovered by some extremely lucky soul. Worst case they have been destroyed by corrosion and currents. The really deep ocean is a more benign place, if they are deep they may be sitting intact. If they ditched hard enough to break up, they are lost. But AFAIK there was no debris found so that suggests they ditched intact. Agreed. Probably intact. Nothing from the planes were found, during the search. The Avenger was a pretty stout plane. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:31:12 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Couple thousand feet of water? Try 15,000+. It's freaking deep out there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unlimited funds? Well that makes it simple. Build a concrete wall that goes to the ocean floor and completely surrounds the Bermuda triangle. Then pump all the water out. Hey, may even find Cyclops too. Neither is likely within the accepted bounds of the Triangle. Dean Hawes reported a shipwreck that sounded remarkably like the Cyclops, 40 miles of the coast of VA, while searching for the USS Scorpion. Unfortunately, no one has been able to re-locate the wreck on the intervening years. Now, it IS possible that Hawes found the Nereus or Proteus instead of the Cyclops, the wreck of all three ships remain to be discovered. Finding 5 Avengers in a couple thousand feet of water is going to be a daunting task. Couple thousand feet of water? Try 15,000+. It's freaking deep out there. Even more daunting. You're hoping for a lucky sonar hit. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:33:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
<a href="http://s158.photobucket.com/user/WitchDoctor02/media/screenshot-lrg-30.png.html" target="_blank">http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t113/WitchDoctor02/screenshot-lrg-30.png</a> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/MashedPotatoes.jpg "This is important. This means something." |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:33:36 AM EDT
[#45]
This relates to the ONE super power I wish I had: I wish I could move about as though I could turn the existence of water off.
Imagine walking up to a lake and turning your power on and now all you see is a big depression where the lake WAS and you can just wander around it freely. 
The shit you'd find would be AMAZING! |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:34:49 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This relates to the ONE super power I wish I had: I wish I could move about as though I could turn the existence of water off. Imagine walking up to a lake and turning your power on and now all you see is a big depression where the lake WAS and you can just wander around it freely.
The shit you'd find would be AMAZING! That's actually a pretty cool fantasy. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:35:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The magnitude of such a broad search really would take unlimited funds. On the order of the entire world's offshore oil industry devoted to search. The ocean is a big place and finding something like an aircraft debris field is painstaking work. The original search specification called for a sonar able to detect 1 meter objects. Assuming the plane ditched at high speed it likely broke up and the largest remaining parts would be engines, landing gear, and seats. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Since you can calculate the fuel range and the radio range of the aircraft, it shouldn't be too difficult to find them. The water is a couple thousand feet deep in the area they probably wrecked. They did not fly south and magically end up over the Florida Keys. You'd have to be blind not to notice that Florida, Miami, etc., was on your right wing instead of your tail for an hour when you were supposed to be heading out over the ocean. The Navy could talk to them on the radio, but they couldn't receive them on the IFF. That and the range of the aircraft draw a small and a large circle that shows where they might be. They're in there, probably to the north. It would have been interesting to get John Craven to estimate a position for them while he was still alive. The magnitude of such a broad search really would take unlimited funds. On the order of the entire world's offshore oil industry devoted to search. The ocean is a big place and finding something like an aircraft debris field is painstaking work. The original search specification called for a sonar able to detect 1 meter objects. Assuming the plane ditched at high speed it likely broke up and the largest remaining parts would be engines, landing gear, and seats. A "High speed" ditching is unlikely. SOP at that time was to wait till everyone's gas was low, then ditch together. George Gay, the sole survivor of the Torpedo 8 attack at Midway, was familiar with the aircraft; he said in his book that it's entirely believable that it would survive such a ditching completely intact. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:35:44 AM EDT
[#48]
I'd guess you'd need a fleet of ships with towed sonar arrays, combined with a second fleet of ships with ROV's to check out possible hits. And, along with unlimited funds, unlimited patience.
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:36:17 AM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:38:44 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd guess you'd need a fleet of ships with towed sonar arrays, combined with a second fleet of ships with ROV's to check out possible hits. And, along with unlimited funds, unlimited patience. And unlimited Monkeys and Typewriters and waiting for Hamlet |
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