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Posted: 4/29/2001 12:32:46 PM EDT
[#1]
What I do disagree on is that deer is "big game". Game maybe but not "big". See Elk, Moose, Bear, Bison etc. if you want "big".
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Posted: 4/29/2001 12:35:29 PM EDT
[#2]
I agree with paul, big to me means 200 lbs. or more.
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Posted: 4/29/2001 12:36:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Ok, it must be a regional thing. In SC, deer and bear are the only "big game" we have.
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Posted: 4/29/2001 12:51:15 PM EDT
[#4]
I hunt in near Selma, AL with .223 every year. While the .223 wont always kill instantly, it always immobilizes Bambi for a one quick follow-up shot.
We also hunt with Garands. The .30-06 FMJ ammo blows a clean hole right thru. The .223 tumbles and does a heck of alot of internal damage. Dont recommend .223 past 100 yds when hunting Bambi. |
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Posted: 4/29/2001 1:34:16 PM EDT
[#5]
I admit the .223 is not the best cal to use. I take my Winchester .30-06 most of the time. I like to take it when I expect wet weather because it's more water resistant and scopes can get fuzzed by rain and blow a good opportunity to shoot. Most of the shots around here are less than 100 yards.
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Posted: 4/29/2001 2:56:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Deer in Michigan go 200 lbs.
I would, but I haven't yet. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. If you keep your cool and pick your shot it will work. There are a lot better choices than .223 though. |
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Posted: 4/29/2001 3:28:35 PM EDT
[#7]
I shot a couple of whitetails with my Colt when I lived in SC. The largest wasn't over 130. Took both down with one shot each. Longest shot was 187 of my steps. AFA big game in SC, I ran arcoss a couple black bears back in the seventies.
Eddie |
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Posted: 4/29/2001 3:32:27 PM EDT
[#8]
i wouldnt take a .223 to a deer in iowa.(shotgun only) but iowa are freakin huge. smaller deer .223 would be fine. i also dont think deer are big game.
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Posted: 4/29/2001 3:39:03 PM EDT
[#9]
both of the deer I shot (I know only 2) were within 40 yards one with 12ga 00 and one with 300win mag and 223 would be plenty at these ranges if the shot was well placed (head shot)
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Posted: 4/29/2001 3:54:56 PM EDT
[#10]
I have 3 kills with a 221 Fireball(handloaded 55gr FMJ @ 2600 fps)on whitetail out to 100 yds. FMJ's will break both shoulders and exit. Give'em a try if legal in your area.
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Posted: 4/29/2001 7:36:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Deer in Michigan go 200 lbs. I would, but I haven't yet. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. If you keep your cool and pick your shot it will work. There are a lot better choices than .223 though. |
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Posted: 4/29/2001 11:51:15 PM EDT
[#12]
One of the best poachers I ever knew used a .222 Revalation. Seemed to work O.K. for him, but you know the whole shot placement deal.
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Posted: 4/30/2001 12:49:47 AM EDT
[#13]
Maybe too big?[img]www.gifanimations.com/animation3/cats&mice/Tiger_comes.gif[/img]
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Posted: 4/30/2001 6:16:23 AM EDT
[#14]
The problem with .224" bullets is that most are designed as varmint or match bullets. The varmint bullets have very light jackets and are designed for rapid expansion. The target bullets have thick jackets and expansion is not a consideration in their design.
Up until the recent introduction of the 60gr. Nosler Partition, there were no bullets in .224" designed for deer and antelope sized game. The next best bullet was the 64gr. Win. Soft Point. If you don't reload, the 64gr. Win. is still one of the better choices for deer using the .223 Rem. DaMan |
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Posted: 4/30/2001 6:46:03 AM EDT
[#15]
.223 is illegal to hunt deer with in Kansas, and I'm glad. Every guy and his dog in KS owns a Mini-14 it seems like. The last thing we need is a bunch of them spraying 30 rd clips full of shells at every deer in eyesight.
Deer here in KS easily go over 200 lbs. Most shooting is within 150 yds, but shots up to 400 yards are not uncommon. I feel very comfortable shooting my AR, but still would not hunt with it even if it were legal. I really enjoy deer hunting, but to me the idea is to kill the deer as quickly and humanely as possible with one well placed shot; not to 'anchor' it down so that I can hit it with multiple follow-up shots. |
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Posted: 4/30/2001 8:41:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: big to me means 200 lbs. or more. It depends on your definition of "Deer" too. Are you hunting little southern or southwestern Whitetail fawns, yearlings, and does? A .223 with the Win 64Gn Power Point will be enough gun, with proper shot placement. Are you hunting mature, large midwestern or Canadian bucks? Then you should use a bigger caliber. |
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Posted: 4/30/2001 9:17:10 AM EDT
[#17]
Deer hunting with 223 should be attempted by SEASONED hunters that will only take appropriate shots.
If it's your first year out, you WILL have buck fever, take a bigger gun. If you are going to take any deer you see regardless of circumstances, leave the AR at home and take a larger caliber. For any shot other than neck shots (and those should only be attempted by those who know what they are doing) a Partition or Power Point should be used. |
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Posted: 4/30/2001 1:39:54 PM EDT
[#18]
I have shot both deer and hogs with calibers ranging from the .222 up to the 340 Weatherby and I would not recommend the .223 for deer size game unless you really want to. The last deer I shot was actually with a Valmet 76 in .223, but its really not enough bullet weight to work all the time. Sure you can do it, but that doesn't make it a good idea. I pretty much consider the .243 to be low end of the power limit for deer and hogs.
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Posted: 5/5/2001 5:57:50 PM EDT
[#19]
yall dont know jack about hunting big animals witt 223..lol i live in texas and we hunt axis deeer that have escaped from exotic rances..come on boys your eyes cant be failing that bad..i hunt axis in the range of 250lbs with my marlin 22magnum and a 10 power bushnell scope..its called a head shot at 100 to 120 yards..i have my rifle tuned into a dime at 11o yds so that i know exactly where to put yhe + hairs [SNIPER]
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Posted: 5/5/2001 6:09:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Originally Posted By blazin ice: yall dont know jack about hunting big animals witt 223..lol i live in texas and we hunt axis deeer that have escaped from exotic rances..come on boys your eyes cant be failing that bad..i hunt axis in the range of 250lbs with my marlin 22magnum and a 10 power bushnell scope..its called a head shot at 100 to 120 yards..i have my rifle tuned into a dime at 11o yds so that i know exactly where to put yhe + hairs [SNIPER] and i'm rosie odonald |
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Posted: 5/5/2001 6:18:03 PM EDT
[#21]
im serious go out and try a marlin 22mag they will drill as good as any 22 you have ever shot besides match rifles and with cci tnt bullets it it basically knocks the other side of an axises skull off..they may be big but if you can take out thier nerve center they are down for the count..and believe me they dont run..it is a 3 inch target at 100 yards if you cant hit that with a 22mag like the marlin you have problems
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Posted: 5/5/2001 7:36:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Deer hunting with 223 should be attempted by SEASONED hunters that will only take appropriate shots. If it's your first year out, you WILL have buck fever, take a bigger gun. If you are going to take any deer you see regardless of circumstances, leave the AR at home and take a larger caliber. For any shot other than neck shots (and those should only be attempted by those who know what they are doing) a Partition or Power Point should be used. What he said. If the deer is able to run very far (sooner or later one will) you will have little or no blood to follow. The .22 and even .243 calibers just do not leave a large enough leak hole to get the job done every time. You may do fine on several animals in a row, but you will lose one eventually, even with a good shot. Ethics . . . |
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Posted: 5/5/2001 7:50:10 PM EDT
[#23]
For a person that know how to properly place his/her shot, and if state game laws allow for it. I say go try to get a deer with a .223. However when it comes to Moose, Elk in that size class. True if you shoot the animal in the brain, you can kill it with even a .22 LR. However I wouldn't advise it, due to many people are not that proficient of a shot with an adrenaline rush. Maybe someday I get to hunt a deer in a state that will let me use a .223, but until then I just have to use my 30-30 Win.
Dave Dee AR15.com Moderator of Reloading Forum A great place to get answers to your reloading questions. |
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Posted: 5/5/2001 8:10:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Replying to blazin' ice. From where I'm from, a .22 mag qualifies as a real good 150 yard jackrabbit gun and that is about it. There is just to many if's to seriously think of the mag as a deer rifle. It torments the hell out of me to lose an animal, and I reduce that possibility by using enough gun. Whoever brought up the .243 as minimums has it down pretty well.
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Posted: 5/5/2001 8:57:35 PM EDT
[#25]
That's what it is here in Washington State, a .243 or larger.
Dave Dee AR15.com Moderator of Reloading Forum A great place to get answers to your reloading questions. |
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Posted: 5/6/2001 7:17:07 AM EDT
[#26]
in a way i do agree with you guys that a small caliber is not effective but with me i alwways take head shots on axis does with my mag..if i miss i miss and it doesnt injur them but i havent missed yet...for axis bucks i use my 22-250 with core lockt bullets or nosler partition bullets again havent lost one to that..i neck shoot with this the only time i use a large caliber is when i need to take a shoulder shot where the bullet needs to stay together for this i use my 243 which i hate to disagree ..creates a 2 inch exit wound at 100 yards..using winchester supreme ammo in 100 grn...i do not use my 22 mag for white tail it is only used on axis because they have no game laws on exotic deer in texas..this is the same for the mouflon and the audad deer ..i preferably use my 22 250 to reach out and touch the audads though because it has long range accuracy and the speed of the bullet on a neck shot is an instant kill...the velocity of the bullet breaks their necks like a karate chop.. it is plain and simple that it is personal preferance + what a person is comfortable with and also how well that person is able to shoot under pressure.. TO EACH THEIR OWN AND SO ON AND SO FORTH...haha
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Posted: 5/6/2001 8:34:01 AM EDT
[#27]
What do you guys think the main problem is w/ the 223 on deer? Bullet weight/ performance or energy? The 223 will turn as much energy as the 44 mag from a hand gun. I can see the bullet issue. I am working w/ a 6x45 now to use for deer season. I plan to use the 85 nosler partition. By the load manual I should be hitting about 2800 fps and grouping just under 1 moa. Our deer in Va are on the small side- a large buck may go 150lbs. with the largest I have killed being 120lbs. dressed. To me if 1000 foot lbs. from a 44 kills, then 1400-1500 foot lbs. with the right bullets should work. Options?
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Posted: 5/6/2001 9:34:55 AM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By blazin ice: in a way i do agree with you guys that a small caliber is not effective but with me i alwways take head shots on axis does with my mag..if i miss i miss and it doesnt injur them but i havent missed yet... Deer tend to move their head rapidly and w/o warning. When this happens it may result in a miss--but instances of the deer having its lower jaw shot off are not uncommon. Pretty horrible way to die--and needless. Personally I only take head shots (w/.30-06) when the deer is staring intently at something and is not likely to move its head. Not too common, but I have never lost one in 25+ years of killing them. My wife, on the other hand, drilled one cleanly through the ribcage with a .243 using Nosler 100gr. Partitions and we never found the deer or a drop of blood. I am still haunted by this and that rifle is now a coyote gun. She shoots a .30-06 now and knocks them flat. The blood trail is found by rolling the deer over! Do what you think is best. This is what is best for the deer I am responsible for. Above all, be safe. |
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Posted: 5/6/2001 10:35:58 AM EDT
[#29]
In my state it's illegal to hunt big game with any .22 caliber weapon. I know someone who actually killed an elk with a .223 and was caught. $1,800 in fines and a lifetime hunting ban was the end result. I also believe it is unethical.
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Posted: 5/6/2001 10:52:08 AM EDT
[#30]
Remmington 700 LH VS 26" HB in .223 with a Leup. 6.5x18x40. 85 - 225 yards one shot stops with 55 grain Federal Premium Bal. Tip.
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Posted: 5/6/2001 11:00:35 AM EDT
[#31]
I have hunted deer with my AR before, and it does work, just not as well as a .270 or other such hunting rounds. If you've got a rifle chambered in a higher load then hunt with them. Hell I've had quite a bit luk hunting with AK's, of course in these parts of Missouri most shots are under a hundred yards. Now as far a survival situation goes, and I had to only have one gun for defense and for hunting, I'd say the .223 would be a fine choice. I'm not saying I'm against hunting deer with .223, it can do the job with proper bullet placement, just that if you have a better option, why bother.
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Posted: 5/6/2001 2:18:26 PM EDT
[#32]
I bother because in rainy conditions the AR is a better choice. Try using that scope when it's raining. It's even better than a shotgun. Shotguns do nothing but spray. I can't stand to injure an animal and not bring it home to the supper table so I chose my shot carefully. Besides, it's fun to shoot!
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Posted: 5/6/2001 7:02:31 PM EDT
[#33]
yeah i can see what yall are saying about how effective the larger calibers are but i believe that it is where you shoot them that makes them drop i mean for gods sake use a 30 06 on a texas whitetail and you can take an ass shot and kill them but all you need is a 100 yd neck shot with a 22 250 and they drop on the spot and twitch a little..or a 100 head shot with a very accurate 22mag..and on exotic deer in texas there is NO HUNTING REGULATION BANNING THE USAGE OF 22 CALIBERS ON EXOTICS..this means if you can make the shot take it and if you cant then wait for a better shot..plain and simple if you can make the shot take it if not just wait.on the subject of the 223 i use a 222 remington and it works fine..if a 223 kills a person in war it will damn well kill a 100 lb deer
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