User Panel
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Posted: 7/26/2016 8:33:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Once upon a time I took a comparive religion course. Opening lecture was how bizzare our culture would look to an outsider. Over the semester we looked at about a dozen "religions", many of which were indigious tribal religions. The core theme was that religions provide a framework for society and a divine basis for laws (laws are only illegal if you are caught by the police, but God knows when you break spiritual laws and often all the believers will enforce them. Religions tend to only survive as long as they benefit the believers (abet often this benefit might've less than obvious)
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Posted: 7/26/2016 8:34:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When it sees the light of day & takes it's first breath. That's also when you become a person in the governments eye. Birth cert., SS #, and a name. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So at what point does the fetus become a "baby"? When it sees the light of day & takes it's first breath. That's also when you become a person in the governments eye. Birth cert., SS #, and a name. |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 8:36:55 PM EDT
[#3]
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Abortion for the convenience of the mother is plain murder. Yup, it should not be considered a for of birth control. |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 8:52:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol. Nothing magical about passing through a vagina. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So at what point does the fetus become a "baby"? When it sees the light of day & takes it's first breath. That's also when you become a person in the governments eye. Birth cert., SS #, and a name. So taking your very first breath of air....finally living on your own without a lifeline (umbilical cord) to the mother means nothing at all to you? That's a pretty big god damn difference if you ask me. What's your definition of "magical?" |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 9:02:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So taking your very first breath of air....finally living on your own without a lifeline (umbilical cord) to the mother means nothing at all to you? That's a pretty big god damn difference if you ask me. What's your definition of "magical?" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So at what point does the fetus become a "baby"? When it sees the light of day & takes it's first breath. That's also when you become a person in the governments eye. Birth cert., SS #, and a name. So taking your very first breath of air....finally living on your own without a lifeline (umbilical cord) to the mother means nothing at all to you? That's a pretty big god damn difference if you ask me. What's your definition of "magical?" On the other hand, your lungs can breathe all day long, but if your brain dead your gone. |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 9:03:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Abortion is good for the economy and lowers crime rates. Any tax dollars spent on abortion will yield great benefits to society.
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Posted: 7/26/2016 9:09:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Abortion is good for the economy and lowers crime rates. Any tax dollars spent on abortion will yield great benefits to society. This right here. I am firmly against abortion, I believe it is abhorrent. However, what exactly are you going to do, ban it? I don't think that will work. It does however offer the benefit of thinning the future democrats of America. It's sad, but it's the truth. |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 9:15:23 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm all for it. It's not your duty to judge people. Let people live THEIR live. Stop controlling people.
Free coat hangers for everyone! |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 9:17:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Thousands of people opposed to artificial abortion. None of them funding a biomedical Manhattan Project to save the larger number of conception-defined lives lost to natural abortion via failed implantation.
To be fair, abortion is a hallmark of civilized Western societies, praised by ethicists as early as Plato. |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 9:33:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This right here. I am firmly against abortion, I believe it is abhorrent. However, what exactly are you going to do, ban it? I don't think that will work. It does however offer the benefit of thinning the future democrats of America. It's sad, but it's the truth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Abortion is good for the economy and lowers crime rates. Any tax dollars spent on abortion will yield great benefits to society. This right here. I am firmly against abortion, I believe it is abhorrent. However, what exactly are you going to do, ban it? I don't think that will work. It does however offer the benefit of thinning the future democrats of America. It's sad, but it's the truth. You could always try removing the financial incentive for women to have kids out of wedlock. We have a system where people are paid more to have kids they can't afford and then are ill equipped to raise. Perhaps if we injected some reality into that system via financial shock induced shortage of basic items like..."damn, it sucks to not have food...heat...clothes..." they would stop having babies like rabits. Giving people a glimpse of consequences tends to do wonders for their pragmatism. |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 9:37:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When it sees the light of day & takes it's first breath. That's also when you become a person in the governments eye. Birth cert., SS #, and a name. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So at what point does the fetus become a "baby"? When it sees the light of day & takes it's first breath. That's also when you become a person in the governments eye. Birth cert., SS #, and a name. Exactly. Some day the government will see it our way and "regulate" whose clumps of cells are allowed to do that whole complicated breathing thing (natural air, not the oxygenated stuff they breathe inside the womb, I mean not breathing, because they're not human. It's the air that clearly makes them human.) |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 10:09:27 PM EDT
[#12]
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I'm pro-life. In on 1, and IBTL since these always turn into a shitshow. Yes, all religion aside its still killing a human being. It's illegal to tamper with sea turtle eggs for Christ sake but we can chop up a viable human baby and sell its parts |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 10:38:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
] When it sees the light of day & takes it's first breath. Quite the man of science. When does a fetus first respond to such external stimuli? |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 12:01:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm all for it. It's not your duty to judge people. Let people live THEIR live. Stop controlling people. Free coat hangers for everyone! You're not understanding what abortion is...right? |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 1:39:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you dead because your stuck on a mechanical lung? Just because your on life support doesn't make you more or less human. On the other hand, your lungs can breathe all day long, but if your brain dead your gone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So at what point does the fetus become a "baby"? When it sees the light of day & takes it's first breath. That's also when you become a person in the governments eye. Birth cert., SS #, and a name. So taking your very first breath of air....finally living on your own without a lifeline (umbilical cord) to the mother means nothing at all to you? That's a pretty big god damn difference if you ask me. What's your definition of "magical?" On the other hand, your lungs can breathe all day long, but if your brain dead your gone. If you're out of the womb and on a mechanical lung, that probably means the mother wants the baby and didn't abort it...right? |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 1:40:14 AM EDT
[#16]
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Abortion Gun control is good for the economy and lowers crime rates. Any tax dollars spent on abortion gun control will yield great benefits to society. This is classic leftist collectivist reasoning. |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 1:45:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you believe that a fetus....a blob of mush that sort-of resembles the human form, is the same as a fully developed human child or adult that was born and raised, then there is no reasoning with you. Babies are people. Fetuses are not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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(First off, you shouldn't be worried about ANYONE ELSES body.  That is THEIR body to do with as they please. They are not harming your body, so you should just go take a hike, and stop trying to delegate what you think they should be doing with their bodies in their own homes...)
Secondly, it seems you try to use feelings, visual effects, and calling them "child", to play on emotions just like the liberals do after a mass shooting with "assault rifles." Doesn't work on me. The pictures you posted are of 1st trimester fetuses. 100%, completely dependent upon the mother for development. They are not separate, living beings. There is no consciousness. Imagine them as chicken eggs. The potential for life is there, but it is the mother's (hen's) choice whether or not to allow life to develop. You don't call eggs, chickens, do you? So why are you calling fetuses, children? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=89829 If you believe that a fetus....a blob of mush that sort-of resembles the human form, is the same as a fully developed human child or adult that was born and raised, then there is no reasoning with you. Babies are people. Fetuses are not. That's a cute line straight out of the planned parenthood handbook. Do some research into the various stages of human development during a pregnancy and get back to us. We'll wait. |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 2:50:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a cute line straight out of the planned parenthood handbook. Do some research into the various stages of human development during a pregnancy and get back to us. We'll wait. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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(First off, you shouldn't be worried about ANYONE ELSES body. That is THEIR body to do with as they please. They are not harming your body, so you should just go take a hike, and stop trying to delegate what you think they should be doing with their bodies in their own homes...)
Secondly, it seems you try to use feelings, visual effects, and calling them "child", to play on emotions just like the liberals do after a mass shooting with "assault rifles." Doesn't work on me. The pictures you posted are of 1st trimester fetuses. 100%, completely dependent upon the mother for development. They are not separate, living beings. There is no consciousness. Imagine them as chicken eggs. The potential for life is there, but it is the mother's (hen's) choice whether or not to allow life to develop. You don't call eggs, chickens, do you? So why are you calling fetuses, children? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=89829 If you believe that a fetus....a blob of mush that sort-of resembles the human form, is the same as a fully developed human child or adult that was born and raised, then there is no reasoning with you. Babies are people. Fetuses are not. That's a cute line straight out of the planned parenthood handbook. Do some research into the various stages of human development during a pregnancy and get back to us. We'll wait. I have, thanks. The vast majority of abortions (92%) happen in the first trimester...but you knew that I'm sure. |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 10:03:07 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have, thanks. The vast majority of abortions (92%) happen in the first trimester...but you knew that I'm sure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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(First off, you shouldn't be worried about ANYONE ELSES body. That is THEIR body to do with as they please. They are not harming your body, so you should just go take a hike, and stop trying to delegate what you think they should be doing with their bodies in their own homes...)
Secondly, it seems you try to use feelings, visual effects, and calling them "child", to play on emotions just like the liberals do after a mass shooting with "assault rifles." Doesn't work on me. The pictures you posted are of 1st trimester fetuses. 100%, completely dependent upon the mother for development. They are not separate, living beings. There is no consciousness. Imagine them as chicken eggs. The potential for life is there, but it is the mother's (hen's) choice whether or not to allow life to develop. You don't call eggs, chickens, do you? So why are you calling fetuses, children? http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=89829 If you believe that a fetus....a blob of mush that sort-of resembles the human form, is the same as a fully developed human child or adult that was born and raised, then there is no reasoning with you. Babies are people. Fetuses are not. That's a cute line straight out of the planned parenthood handbook. Do some research into the various stages of human development during a pregnancy and get back to us. We'll wait. I have, thanks. The vast majority of abortions (92%) happen in the first trimester...but you knew that I'm sure. Irrelevant. We are talking legality. So when the abortion takes place (assuming beyond birth, of course) its all the same. So you agree that abortion is a constitutional right, as well? Or do you just love judicial oligarchies but only if they agree with you? |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 10:06:52 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're out of the womb and on a mechanical lung, that probably means the mother wants the baby and didn't abort it...right? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: SNIP So taking your very first breath of air....finally living on your own without a lifeline (umbilical cord) to the mother means nothing at all to you? That's a pretty big god damn difference if you ask me. What's your definition of "magical?" On the other hand, your lungs can breathe all day long, but if your brain dead your gone. If you're out of the womb and on a mechanical lung, that probably means the mother wants the baby and didn't abort it...right? |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 10:46:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This right here. I am firmly against abortion, I believe it is abhorrent. However, what exactly are you going to do, ban it? I don't think that will work. It does however offer the benefit of thinning the future democrats of America. It's sad, but it's the truth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Abortion is good for the economy and lowers crime rates. Any tax dollars spent on abortion will yield great benefits to society. This right here. I am firmly against abortion, I believe it is abhorrent. However, what exactly are you going to do, ban it? I don't think that will work. It does however offer the benefit of thinning the future democrats of America. It's sad, but it's the truth. Ban abortion and the women who get infections from back-alley abortions will increase. Think of that as the baby's only available form of self defense. |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 10:50:23 AM EDT
[#22]
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We cannot afford to have another child. I can't afford to have a child at this stage in life. In both of those instances, the potential parent is estimating that they do not possess the time, or money necessary to carry a child to term and/or raising a(nother) child. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Resources are not evenly distributed amongst individuals, and food is not the only resource that an individual has to allocate If you think that carrying a pregnancy and giving birth do not require the expenditure of resources that only the mother has, then we cannot agree. See my above comment. It is a legitimate argument, and it is one based on how that person desires to allocate his/her resources. You're making an argument based on emotion, and there's nothing wrong with that, but if you cannot exclude emotional attachments for just a moment, you'll never see that abortion is nearly 100% about resource allocation. It's not as simple and direct as a link as you seem to want to be forcing it into, but it is the basis. Let's bear in mind that we got to this point, because somebody wrote something to the effect of,"humans are awful, not even animals kill their young." I was simply trying to refute that specious notion by pointing out that not only do animals kill their young, they do it primarily for the same reason humans primarily do it, resource allocation. I am not sure where it happened however I believe something was lost in translation here (which may be my fault). I am not ignoring what you wrote (I just deleted another hefty post) however I want to go a different direction starting at the beginning to ensure we are on the same page. Earlier, you made this claim: "They do it for the same reason humans do it - resource scarcity, real or perceived " Can you please provide an example of a human being having an abortion due to the issue of resource scarcity (real or perceived) and then describe the lack of resources justifying or used to justify that abortion? I need a baseline here because I think you and I are operating off of two different perspectives regarding resource management. We cannot afford to have another child. I can't afford to have a child at this stage in life. In both of those instances, the potential parent is estimating that they do not possess the time, or money necessary to carry a child to term and/or raising a(nother) child. Then don't fuck. |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 10:57:39 AM EDT
[#23]
The choice to have a child should start before conception.
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Posted: 7/27/2016 1:17:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There were cases where people who murdered slaves who were punished. There were circumstances where slaves could be killed or die and the owner / killer not face charges however slave owners were not permitted by law in many of these states to kill their slaves without just cause (as defined by the statute). Whether those laws were enforced with vigor in all of those states (some were, some not so much), is a valid point to raise. All of this is immoral, unjust, and patently wrong and I do not wish to come across as justifying or defending slavery or slave owners (I am not) however slavery, as a practice, both in America and elsewhere going back to the dawn of man, often had controls or statutes that tried to limit what could or could not be done with slaves. The USA was right to end the practice with the 13th amendment. The USA was right to ban the importation of slaves when they did. The various Colonies were right to try to ban slavery when they did (Georgia actually outlawed slavery briefly and other colonies tried and were blocked by the British crown). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah and did you ever see a slave owner charged with anything they had done to a slave? Here, you read them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_codes Violence against slaves
There were cases where people who murdered slaves who were punished. Records indicate at least two earlier incidents. On 23 November 1739, in Williamsburg, Virginia, two white men, Charles Quin and David White, were hanged for the murder of another white man's black slave; and on 21 April 1775, the Fredericksburg newspaper, the Virginia Gazette reported that William Pitman had been hanged for the murder of his own black slave.Blacks in Colonial America, p101, Oscar Reiss, McFarland & Company, 1997; Virginia Gazette, 21 April 1775, University of Mary Washington Department of Historic Preservation archives There were circumstances where slaves could be killed or die and the owner / killer not face charges however slave owners were not permitted by law in many of these states to kill their slaves without just cause (as defined by the statute). Whether those laws were enforced with vigor in all of those states (some were, some not so much), is a valid point to raise. All of this is immoral, unjust, and patently wrong and I do not wish to come across as justifying or defending slavery or slave owners (I am not) however slavery, as a practice, both in America and elsewhere going back to the dawn of man, often had controls or statutes that tried to limit what could or could not be done with slaves. The USA was right to end the practice with the 13th amendment. The USA was right to ban the importation of slaves when they did. The various Colonies were right to try to ban slavery when they did (Georgia actually outlawed slavery briefly and other colonies tried and were blocked by the British crown). Just cause? All any slave owner would have to say his the slave raised his hand to me and we hung him. Did you also know that in some states a slave could not be put to death with out a trial? But that was not for the slaves benefit, it was to make sure the slave owner was not deprived of his property unlawfully. Did you also know at trial the slave was not allowed to speak and only the accusing persons word was taken.
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Posted: 7/27/2016 1:21:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When it sees the light of day & takes it's first breath. That's also when you become a person in the governments eye. Birth cert., SS #, and a name. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So at what point does the fetus become a "baby"? When it sees the light of day & takes it's first breath. That's also when you become a person in the governments eye. Birth cert., SS #, and a name. So even in liberal la la land of comiefornya did they convict peterson of double murder. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45520-2004Nov12.html |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 1:25:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, the guy accusing other people of not knowing anything cites Wikipedia. What you quoted is qualified immunity for slave owners of they accidentally kill a slave while disciplining them - for something they did wrong. Considering the the massive cost of a slave in the era, I can't imagine anyone other than a wildly rich democrat slave owner killing them "just for lookin at their missus" You seem to be confusing actual pre civilian rights movement racist violence like Emmet Till (1950s) with plantation slave ownership (pre Emancipation, which was 1860s). So you have a good century of reading to cover, and I don't reccomend you do it on a wiki. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Your knowledge of history is somewhat flawed.There are plenty of examples of slave owners killing slaves for so much as spilling a glass of wine, or for looking at Massas wife too long. After lincoln freed the slaves some slaves were hanged as a show of contempt for the new law. I suggest you take some time to read up on the slave codes the various slave states had at the time. Those slave codes dealt with what could and could not be done to slaves by their owners. Here, you read them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_codes Violence against slaves
Lol, the guy accusing other people of not knowing anything cites Wikipedia. What you quoted is qualified immunity for slave owners of they accidentally kill a slave while disciplining them - for something they did wrong. Considering the the massive cost of a slave in the era, I can't imagine anyone other than a wildly rich democrat slave owner killing them "just for lookin at their missus" You seem to be confusing actual pre civilian rights movement racist violence like Emmet Till (1950s) with plantation slave ownership (pre Emancipation, which was 1860s). So you have a good century of reading to cover, and I don't reccomend you do it on a wiki. Yes wiki is not always accurate but in this case with the states & state codes evident you'd have to be an imbecile not to understand it. |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 2:08:26 PM EDT
[#27]
I am pro-choice, non-religious. I have never knocked anyone up but plan a vasectomy soon.
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Posted: 7/27/2016 2:15:23 PM EDT
[#28]
“I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.”
Ronald Reagan |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 6:50:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
“I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.” Ronald Reagan And I am a greedy, selfish bastard. Your point? |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 7:00:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Irrelevant. We are talking legality. So when the abortion takes place (assuming beyond birth, of course) its all the same. So you agree that abortion is a constitutional right, as well? Or do you just love judicial oligarchies but only if they agree with you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you believe that a fetus....a blob of mush that sort-of resembles the human form, is the same as a fully developed human child or adult that was born and raised, then there is no reasoning with you. Babies are people. Fetuses are not. That's a cute line straight out of the planned parenthood handbook. Do some research into the various stages of human development during a pregnancy and get back to us. We'll wait. I have, thanks. The vast majority of abortions (92%) happen in the first trimester...but you knew that I'm sure. Irrelevant. We are talking legality. So when the abortion takes place (assuming beyond birth, of course) its all the same. So you agree that abortion is a constitutional right, as well? Or do you just love judicial oligarchies but only if they agree with you? 
So you specifically highlight words in my post, then state I should learn about development. I came back with facts and you scream "Irrelevant!" because it wasn't what you wanted to hear to further your agenda? Goodbye. |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 7:08:44 PM EDT
[#31]
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Mother's wants have nothing to do with whether you are human or not. You have articulated reasoning that would allow for abortion one minute before natural delivery. Are you ok with abortion one minute before natural delivery? Don't be fucking stupid. You know how I know you are at a loss because you can't stump me and claim victory? Stupid rhetorical questions get thrown around that mean nothing... |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 7:15:00 PM EDT
[#32]
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Abortion for the convenience of the mother is plain murder. What about the fathers convenience? |
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Posted: 7/27/2016 7:42:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't be fucking stupid. You know how I know you are at a loss because you can't stump me and claim victory? Stupid rhetorical questions get thrown around that mean nothing... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Mother's wants have nothing to do with whether you are human or not. You have articulated reasoning that would allow for abortion one minute before natural delivery. Are you ok with abortion one minute before natural delivery? Don't be fucking stupid. You know how I know you are at a loss because you can't stump me and claim victory? Stupid rhetorical questions get thrown around that mean nothing... |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 12:49:51 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you kidding me? Just cause? All any slave owner would have to say his the slave raised his hand to me and we hung him. Did you also know that in some states a slave could not be put to death with out a trial? But that was not for the slaves benefit, it was to make sure the slave owner was not deprived of his property unlawfully. Did you also know at trial the slave was not allowed to speak and only the accusing persons word was taken. No, I am not "kidding" you. I have actually read the slave codes from a variety of states (not just their summation on wiki) and the statutes in many of the states provided clear guidelines for when you could and could not kill a slave. I have already provided two examples of white men who were hanged for killing slaves. There were examples under British and American governance where whites were executed for killing slaves. That's historical fact. Yes, many of those laws were there to protect the "property" (chattel) of the owner however some of those laws were put in place to protect the slaves themselves (as one of my examples provided demonstrates). Laws varied from state to state, territory to territory, and country to country with some being more "generous" than others. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 9:52:39 AM EDT
[#35]
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Don't be fucking stupid. You know how I know you are at a loss because you can't stump me and claim victory? Stupid rhetorical questions get thrown around that mean nothing... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mother's wants have nothing to do with whether you are human or not. You have articulated reasoning that would allow for abortion one minute before natural delivery. Are you ok with abortion one minute before natural delivery? Don't be fucking stupid. You know how I know you are at a loss because you can't stump me and claim victory? Stupid rhetorical questions get thrown around that mean nothing... This is really a very simple issue. You said you believe that a "baby" isn't actually a person until they leave the womb and breath on there own. That is a view that has no scientific basis. It is a purely philosophical distinction. I.E. your belief is based by philosophy, not science. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:38:30 PM EDT
[#36]
The line gets further blurred when you have a naturally born 1lb. preemie in an incubator that is the same age as an aborted baby in the trash can.
I actually have more respect for a woman who just flat out admits that she has completely broken maternal instincts and doesn't want her (and the fathers) baby in her womb so she is going to get rid of it come hell or high water than a woman who calls her unborn a parasite or blob of cancerous cells to try and justify her selfish decision and ease her conscience. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 12:40:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Abortion is the easy way out, if you don't want kids then don't have sex.
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Posted: 7/29/2016 1:08:36 PM EDT
[#38]
I was extremely pro-life until I became a foster parent and was faced with the reality of what life is like for unwanted children. I cannot possibly stress enough that death would be preferable to the life that some of these kids struggle to survive.
My wife and I adopted two children and are hoping to adopt another. Contrary to popular belief, there simply aren't enough families who are willing to adopt and that leads to overcrowding an already broken and unfortunate system. When you pick up a nine year old child to bring to your house, their eleventh in their lifetime, and you were told that the child was raped by a foster father, given to that foster father's friends, beaten, starved, and that all their worldly possessions fit into a plastic Walmart bag . . . you kind of start to realize that over a million kids were aborted in 2015 and if they were here . . . that would be a shit-ton more kids that the taxpayers would have to shelter, feed, and clothe. Many of those kids would then be surrendered to people who qualify to foster them on paper but certainly not in their hearts. Bottom line is that abstinence isn't something that will EVER happen. Unwanted and unplanned pregnancies are going to happen. Unless people want to start adopting kids left and right and stop bitching about welfare leeches who are birthing babies they can't afford . . . abortion is a necessary evil that SUCKS, but sometimes it's for the best. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 1:19:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was extremely pro-life until I became a foster parent and was faced with the reality of what life is like for unwanted children. I cannot possibly stress enough that death would be preferable to the life that some of these kids struggle to survive. My wife and I adopted two children and are hoping to adopt another. Contrary to popular belief, there simply aren't enough families who are willing to adopt and that leads to overcrowding an already broken and unfortunate system. When you pick up a nine year old child to bring to your house, their eleventh in their lifetime, and you were told that the child was raped by a foster father, given to that foster father's friends, beaten, starved, and that all their worldly possessions fit into a plastic Walmart bag . . . you kind of start to realize that over a million kids were aborted in 2015 and if they were here . . . that would be a shit-ton more kids that the taxpayers would have to shelter, feed, and clothe. Many of those kids would then be surrendered to people who qualify to foster them on paper but certainly not in their hearts. Bottom line is that abstinence isn't something that will EVER happen. Unwanted and unplanned pregnancies are going to happen. Unless people want to start adopting kids left and right and stop bitching about welfare leeches who are birthing babies they can't afford . . . abortion is a necessary evil that SUCKS, but sometimes it's for the best. The ends does not justify the means. If the fetus is a human, suggesting we kill them early is no different from suggesting you take your own foster children out and putting a bullet in them - for their own good. I cannot support abortion from the time brain activity begins on. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 1:24:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ends does not justify the means. If the fetus is a human, suggesting we kill them early is no different from suggesting you take your own foster children out and putting a bullet in them - for their own good. I cannot support abortion from the time brain activity begins on. How many children have you fostered or adopted? How much money do you donate each payday to help unwanted children? If you are doing none of that, you might as well be pro-choice because you lack the courage of your convictions. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 1:38:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many children have you fostered or adopted? How much money do you donate each payday to help unwanted children? If you are doing none of that, you might as well be pro-choice because you lack the courage of your convictions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The ends does not justify the means. If the fetus is a human, suggesting we kill them early is no different from suggesting you take your own foster children out and putting a bullet in them - for their own good. I cannot support abortion from the time brain activity begins on. How many children have you fostered or adopted? How much money do you donate each payday to help unwanted children? If you are doing none of that, you might as well be pro-choice because you lack the courage of your convictions. It is morally wrong to hurt someone. It is not morally wrong to refuse to help someone. It is not governments responsibility to save everyone. It is governments responsibility to step in when one person attempts (or succeeds) in trying to hurt another person. I have an open offer to adopt any child whose mother plans to abort it. It hasn't happened yet, and may never, but if I come across someone discussing aborting their child, I make the offer. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 1:43:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have an open offer to adopt any child whose mother plans to abort it. It hasn't happened yet, and may never, but if I come across someone discussing aborting their child, I make the offer. Oh, wow. How magnanimous of you to offer to help. What's stopping you? There are tons of kids ready and waiting to be adopted as I type this. Offers don't fix hungry bellies or broken bones, but I'm convinced that every child who is currently uncertain where their next meal is coming from or whether or not some pervert will be creeping into their bedroom again tonight feels bolstered and safe with your gracious offer on the table to help a child who isn't here, but deny help to the ones who currently are. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 1:47:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, wow. How magnanimous of you to offer to help. What's stopping you? There are tons of kids ready and waiting to be adopted as I type this. Offers don't fix hungry bellies or broken bones, but I'm convinced that every child who is currently uncertain where their next meal is coming from or whether or not some pervert will be creeping into their bedroom again tonight feels bolstered and safe with your gracious offer on the table to help a child who isn't here, but deny help to the ones who currently are. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have an open offer to adopt any child whose mother plans to abort it. It hasn't happened yet, and may never, but if I come across someone discussing aborting their child, I make the offer. Oh, wow. How magnanimous of you to offer to help. What's stopping you? There are tons of kids ready and waiting to be adopted as I type this. Offers don't fix hungry bellies or broken bones, but I'm convinced that every child who is currently uncertain where their next meal is coming from or whether or not some pervert will be creeping into their bedroom again tonight feels bolstered and safe with your gracious offer on the table to help a child who isn't here, but deny help to the ones who currently are. Because those kids are alive and if they get killed their death will be prosecuted by the state. If I took in a couple of them I would be unable to help a child that is unrecognized by the state. Meanwhile, how can you afford internet, shouldn't every dollar you spend on guns, entertainment and the internet be spent on a poor starving child? |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 1:51:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is morally wrong to hurt someone. It is not morally wrong to refuse to help someone. It is not governments responsibility to save everyone. It is governments responsibility to step in when one person attempts (or succeeds) in trying to hurt another person. What if refusing to help causes hurt? Which it does, by the way. You are talking about all the ways that abortion is wrong, but still feel like it's morally acceptable to refuse to help the actual child the fetus grows into. You champion the fetus, but not the actual child. You want to force all women to give birth if they become pregnant, but once it gets here you think your job is done. That, by the way, is why abortion has to happen. The government can't afford to help a million extra kids every year and private funds, the ones you don't donate, are hard to come by. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 1:57:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if refusing to help causes hurt? Which it does, by the way. You are talking about all the ways that abortion is wrong, but still feel like it's morally acceptable to refuse to help the actual child the fetus grows into. You champion the fetus, but not the actual child. You want to force all women to give birth if they become pregnant, but once it gets here you think your job is done. That, by the way, is why abortion has to happen. The government can't afford to help a million extra kids every year and private funds, the ones you don't donate, are hard to come by. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is morally wrong to hurt someone. It is not morally wrong to refuse to help someone. It is not governments responsibility to save everyone. It is governments responsibility to step in when one person attempts (or succeeds) in trying to hurt another person. What if refusing to help causes hurt? Which it does, by the way. You are talking about all the ways that abortion is wrong, but still feel like it's morally acceptable to refuse to help the actual child the fetus grows into. You champion the fetus, but not the actual child. You want to force all women to give birth if they become pregnant, but once it gets here you think your job is done. That, by the way, is why abortion has to happen. The government can't afford to help a million extra kids every year and private funds, the ones you don't donate, are hard to come by. I'm pretty libertarian in belief. I have no problem with the fact people naturally die all the time. You can be a socialist all you want, but I will continue voting against it. I'm a nice guy for the most part and I like to help people out. Helping people out is not my responsibility though and I cannot support the government forcing people to help. We obviously disagree on what is human. I have to ask, when do you view a fetus as human and can no longer morally support killing it? |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 1:57:27 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meanwhile, how can you afford internet, shouldn't every dollar you spend on guns, entertainment and the internet be spent on a poor starving child? I've adopted two children, we are currently fostering two more, and I donate a TON of time and money to help where I can. I drive community taxi, free of charge, and make it a point to mentor any kids who are in the system and doing poorly. I also tutor, free of charge. I don't sit and twiddle my thumbs and piss and moan about what's wrong with the world. I try to do my part to change it. My family lives on a very tight budget to be able to afford what we have and also step up and help others. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. The time you've spent here arguing about why it's not okay to abort but IS okay to ignore the unwanted kids once they're here since it's not morally wrong to refuse to help someone (LOL!) ... could have been spent volunteering or mentoring or signing yourself up to foster/adopt. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 1:59:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've adopted two children, we are currently fostering two more, and I donate a TON of time and money to help where I can. I drive community taxi, free of charge, and make it a point to mentor any kids who are in the system and doing poorly. I also tutor, free of charge. I don't sit and twiddle my thumbs and piss and moan about what's wrong with the world. I try to do my part to change it. My family lives on a very tight budget to be able to afford what we have and also step up and help others. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. The time you've spent here arguing about why it's not okay to abort but IS okay to ignore the unwanted kids once they're here since it's not morally wrong to refuse to help someone (LOL!) ... could have been spent volunteering or mentoring or signing yourself up to foster/adopt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Meanwhile, how can you afford internet, shouldn't every dollar you spend on guns, entertainment and the internet be spent on a poor starving child? I've adopted two children, we are currently fostering two more, and I donate a TON of time and money to help where I can. I drive community taxi, free of charge, and make it a point to mentor any kids who are in the system and doing poorly. I also tutor, free of charge. I don't sit and twiddle my thumbs and piss and moan about what's wrong with the world. I try to do my part to change it. My family lives on a very tight budget to be able to afford what we have and also step up and help others. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. The time you've spent here arguing about why it's not okay to abort but IS okay to ignore the unwanted kids once they're here since it's not morally wrong to refuse to help someone (LOL!) ... could have been spent volunteering or mentoring or signing yourself up to foster/adopt. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 2:06:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm pretty libertarian in belief. I have no problem with the fact people naturally die all the time. You can be a socialist all you want, but I will continue voting against it. I'm a nice guy for the most part and I like to help people out. Helping people out is not my responsibility though and I cannot support the government forcing people to help. We obviously disagree on what is human. I have to ask, when do you view a fetus as human and can no longer morally support killing it? How is my helping children who are unwanted a socialist thing? I rather view it as a HUMAN thing. Why do you want to ban abortion, ensuring that more unwanted children flood the system if you are going to ignore those children? How is that right? If you are adamant that a fetus is a person then why aren't doing something to help said person once it gets here? I don't support partial birth or late term abortions. However, aborting a clump of cells versus aborting a child through starvation, neglect or abuse . . . well. . . fetal abortion sounds more humane to me. If helping people out isn't your responsibility then why are you trying to "help" fetuses, which you think are people? |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 2:30:16 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is my helping children who are unwanted a socialist thing? I rather view it as a HUMAN thing. Why do you want to ban abortion, ensuring that more unwanted children flood the system if you are going to ignore those children? How is that right? If you are adamant that a fetus is a person then why aren't doing something to help said person once it gets here? I don't support partial birth or late term abortions. However, aborting a clump of cells versus aborting a child through starvation, neglect or abuse . . . well. . . fetal abortion sounds more humane to me. If helping people out isn't your responsibility then why are you trying to "help" fetuses, which you think are people? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm pretty libertarian in belief. I have no problem with the fact people naturally die all the time. You can be a socialist all you want, but I will continue voting against it. I'm a nice guy for the most part and I like to help people out. Helping people out is not my responsibility though and I cannot support the government forcing people to help. We obviously disagree on what is human. I have to ask, when do you view a fetus as human and can no longer morally support killing it? How is my helping children who are unwanted a socialist thing? I rather view it as a HUMAN thing. Why do you want to ban abortion, ensuring that more unwanted children flood the system if you are going to ignore those children? How is that right? If you are adamant that a fetus is a person then why aren't doing something to help said person once it gets here? I don't support partial birth or late term abortions. However, aborting a clump of cells versus aborting a child through starvation, neglect or abuse . . . well. . . fetal abortion sounds more humane to me. If helping people out isn't your responsibility then why are you trying to "help" fetuses, which you think are people? It's only socialist if you push for the government to do the work/tax the people to pay for it. I want to ban abortion (from the time brain activity begins) because I view it as killing a person without just cause. I also support banning murder and theft. I think it's good to help people - as long as it is done of one's own free will. |
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