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Posted: 6/27/2016 2:14:50 AM EDT
[#1]
Or, we could get both or five.
I have a 10, 14.5, 16, 18 and 20 inch barrel AR's. Variety is the spice of life. If SHTF I can choose the appropriate length barrel. But if I had to pick one and run? I would go with the 10" SBR and a can just because it's compact. It's easier to conceal and move with without being noticed. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 2:16:44 AM EDT
[#2]
I'd prefer a sixteen inch but I'd make a twenty inch work.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 2:19:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does 4 inches really hinder you that much? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Try entering and exiting a vehicle or dwelling with one. Does 4 inches really hinder you that much? When entering/exiting vehicles? Yes. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 2:22:02 AM EDT
[#4]
If you have to take a shit during a SHTF situation, are you more likely to bring an SBR or a full-size rifle with you to the latrine? If you need to dig a hole or fix a fence, what is going to be easier to keep slung on your back?
Are you going to have a rifle available at all times, or just when you think you'll need it? |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 2:27:26 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you have to take a shit during a SHTF situation, are you more likely to bring an SBR or a full-size rifle with you to the latrine? If you need to dig a hole or fix a fence, what is going to be easier to keep slung on your back? Are you going to have a rifle available at all times, or just when you think you'll need it? I'm glad to see more people are preaching this now, instead of just me. It's also my preferred response for "you need at least a full sized M14 for when the SHTF." |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 2:43:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Economic malaise causing crime is also a concern. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only realistic SHTF here is related to hurricanes. I don't need to ruck anywhere, nor do I need to be doing convoy ops. I'll be sitting in the shade in a lawn chair with a rifle across my lap just like the last time. A full size A2 or for that matter, a Marlin 30-30 will do just fine. Neither will pose difficulties walking out the front door. Economic malaise causing crime is also a concern. Not here. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 2:45:34 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does 4 inches really hinder you that much? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Try entering and exiting a vehicle or dwelling with one. Does 4 inches really hinder you that much? Considering the crappy vehicle access when all kitted up, yes. I always preferred 20 rd magazines for the same reason. Easier to use in the turret. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 2:52:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really think many here would be disappointed that SHTF will not be like they pictured it. It won't be an never ending call of duty gun battle. There was a very good thread years ago from a member who went through an actual SHTF where neighbors patrolled their neighborhoods after Katrina. Any rifle would of done fine as the only time they actually had to use them was to shoot snakes and other critters. So for me a 20" AR would do just fine. Not SHTF, SHTF would be an endless version of what you described. What happened in Yugoslavia, Serbia, and Kosovo would be a better description. Americans really havent had a SHTF situation since the civil war. To the OP whatever you have will work, but IMO shorter is going to better not so much for the vehicle aspect, but clearing houses etc.. could be a real concern and a 20" won't be the best. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 3:01:48 AM EDT
[#9]
To me shtf means living with your gun, not just shooting it. In that case shorter and lighter is better.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 3:57:48 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree, use what you are comfortable and competent with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No. I disagree, use what you are comfortable and competent with. I disagree. Get comfortable and competent with the better tool for the job. A carbine is the quintessential SHTF weapon. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 4:45:22 AM EDT
[#11]
My 20" has a collapsible stock, it's pretty much the same size as my 16" fully extended.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 4:51:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Your post is as dumb as your avatar.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 5:10:51 AM EDT
[#13]
I think training is more important than the gun. If you have never trained going in and out of a vehicle, or clearing a house, I don't think it really matters what the gun is.
That being said, my A2 clone is so much easier to shoot than my 16"-quad free floating rail with an optic. The weight alone is significant, the recoil is less too. I have a 16" with a carbine length gas system, a 16" mid-length gas system, a 18" mid-length gas system, and a 20" rifle length gas system. The 20" feels the best when shooting. Maybe I am just nostalgic, but I love my A2 clone. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:29:26 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your post is as dumb as your avatar. Thank you for your valuable insight. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:40:44 AM EDT
[#15]
If you mean living with your rifle strapped on 24/7, I will take my 16" 30/30 lever gun every time. It is far less cumbersome than any AR with that big magazine sticking out in just the wrong place.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:54:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I think of shtf I don't see vehicles playing a major role. Perhaps because I live in bfe not anywhere near a big city, my shtf is more of the one second after type. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Try entering and exiting a vehicle or dwelling with one. When I think of shtf I don't see vehicles playing a major role. Perhaps because I live in bfe not anywhere near a big city, my shtf is more of the one second after type. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I have a 12.7" with a suppressor. I have no problems hitting the plates out to 400 yards with an AimpointPro and 3X magnifier. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 9:01:56 AM EDT
[#17]
If that's what you want, then 24" bbl is even mores betters
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Posted: 6/27/2016 9:05:22 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
PRO's :Turns m193 into a better AP than m855, longer sight radius for iron sights when batteries are gone, softer shooting gun. CON's :Less compact, heavier depending on barrel profile. no |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 9:17:08 AM EDT
[#19]
Most realistic SHTF scenarios, you'd be best served with a concealed, higher capacity 9mm pistol with a couple extra mags.
Your well being will be in as much danger from the state as it will thugs and thieves. As evidenced in other shtf incidents in this country. Become invisible. Don't cause issues. Stay out of the way. Don't stick out. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 9:27:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With advancments in ammo today........nope Agreed....... |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 9:29:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pass, lite & compact  Ditto..... |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 9:30:51 AM EDT
[#22]
Looking at it in another way, the AR with 16 inch barrel and a sliding stock is just the right size for the 5.56x45 cartridge, IMHO.
As above, your pistol will be on you most of the time. I recently picked up a G34 and found I can hit at a good distance with it. I keep some 33 rd mags in the car. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 9:31:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most realistic SHTF scenarios, you'd be best served with a concealed, higher capacity 9mm pistol with a couple extra mags. Your well being will be in as much danger from the state as it will thugs and thieves. As evidenced in other shtf incidents in this country. Become invisible. Don't cause issues. Stay out of the way. Don't stick out. Your last sentence is well said. That's also my motto. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 9:31:34 AM EDT
[#24]
Depends upon where you're planning to use it - for what type of shooting?
A precision AR-15 out to 800 yards? 20" DEFINITELY PREFERRED. My precision rifle is 20" 224 Wylde 1:8 SS barrel with a 9" suppressor on the end... It's a little bit loooooooooong to be going in/out of vehicles, or CQB Entry crap - but I don't foresee that being an issue in the wide-open spaces in the middle of nowhere in North Dakota. If you need VELOCITY for longer range shooting than your typical ~100-500yds with an AR-15 - you'll want the extra barrel length. If you don't need the velocity, a lightweight shorty will serve most people best out to 300 to 500 yards. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 9:39:11 AM EDT
[#25]
MET-T
terrain/ mission dictates equipment. here in south fla a 20" is not the best choice but quite adequate. out west not only would a 20" be a good choice but a 20" in 308 would be a great choice. it is honestly not that hard to move with a rifle but it is harder to return fire from inside a car or building. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 9:44:35 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Economic malaise causing crime is also a concern. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only realistic SHTF here is related to hurricanes. I don't need to ruck anywhere, nor do I need to be doing convoy ops. I'll be sitting in the shade in a lawn chair with a rifle across my lap just like the last time. A full size A2 or for that matter, a Marlin 30-30 will do just fine. Neither will pose difficulties walking out the front door. Economic malaise causing crime is also a concern. Yep. Also: Extended power outage due to natural or unnatural causes = same scenario as Katrina minus flooding. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 9:54:51 AM EDT
[#27]
Small, light, and ideally quiet.
If hunkered down in a home, chances are you might have to maneuver around with it, long is bad here. If moving distances, shorter and lighter is better. I'd perfer to have extra weight come from a small weaponlight or optic( ideally an acog with dual illumination RMR, no batteries.) If for some reason you have to conceal it to travel, a broken down sbr fits nicely into a backpack or BOB. Ideally you would have a concealed sidearm as well. A suppressor would be ideal to preserve hearing and communications. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:01:01 AM EDT
[#28]
20 inch ar? Nope. MP5K clone.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:03:15 AM EDT
[#29]
Where I live absolutely. Having the ability to push those rounds out there a little farther when your ranges are longer.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:03:24 AM EDT
[#30]
When SHTF laws won't matter so I'm installing bullet buttons on all the things to make them full auto. Gun would probably be 14.5
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:05:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll keep my 20" with an ACOG for SHTF. I don't plan on trying to be Meal Team 87. I just wanna keep my home place safe and maybe plink varmints for food if things get tough. If it gets to the point where I "need" full auto and a suppressor and 20k in night vision and claymores and a few hand grenades, I'm already fucked anyway. I'm not trained for that, I'm effectively a team of 1 - maybe a few more other untrained peasants who have less gun knowledge than I do, and the resupply truck ain't coming. You're welcome to prepare however you feel necessary. I plan on trying to keep as low a profile. That means not running around in cars wasting precious gas and trying to play "freedom's last defender" by getting in to every gun battle I possibly can. If I can get through a short term SHTF without firing a shot, fine by me. +1 Me too, at the moment. I'll be hunkered down on my property waiting for the population to thin out. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:14:13 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Considering the crappy vehicle access when all kitted up, yes. I always preferred 20 rd magazines for the same reason. Easier to use in the turret. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Try entering and exiting a vehicle or dwelling with one. Does 4 inches really hinder you that much? Considering the crappy vehicle access when all kitted up, yes. I always preferred 20 rd magazines for the same reason. Easier to use in the turret. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:18:14 AM EDT
[#33]
Highly dependent on your AO.
If you live in rural areas with large expanses of open terrain, or you plan on staying in a fixed position, nothing wrong with a 20" with ACOG or similar. My problem is the complete opposite. I live right of the middle of metro Atlanta. It'd be an urban CQB nightmare in true SHTF. My long gun is a 10.5" suppressed SBR (OAL ~16"). I value mobility and stealth over velocity for my purposes. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:20:07 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
PRO's :Turns m193 into a better AP than m855, longer sight radius for iron sights when batteries are gone, softer shooting gun. CON's :Less compact, heavier depending on barrel profile. How far are 90% of your shots going to be if the SHTF? Within 100yds? .................. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:21:37 AM EDT
[#35]
Absolutely.
Most people in SHTF aren't going to be maneuvering in and out of vehicles and kicking doors in, 20" FTW. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:23:39 AM EDT
[#36]
A 20"er gets reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy long with a can.......that being said, I'd still run around with one due to familarity. My 12.5" w/ can gets first grabs though (and is the same size as a 20")
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:24:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SHTFantisies, it might not be good for. But for a disrupted area for a short time, i.e. Katrina, any gun will be better than no gun. I believe food and medicine and shelter will be infinitely more valuable than your preferred pick of rifle. If you find yourself in multiple gun battles without any kind of support, you may not be around too long. Just my .02 Lol. I say this all of the time. I'd be lucky to last through a typical battle load worth of ammo. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:28:47 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll keep my 20" with an ACOG for SHTF. I don't plan on trying to be Meal Team 87. I just wanna keep my home place safe and maybe plink varmints for food if things get tough. If it gets to the point where I "need" full auto and a suppressor and 20k in night vision and claymores and a few hand grenades, I'm already fucked anyway. I'm not trained for that, I'm effectively a team of 1 - maybe a few more other untrained peasants who have less gun knowledge than I do, and the resupply truck ain't coming. You're welcome to prepare however you feel necessary. I plan on trying to keep as low a profile. That means not running around in cars wasting precious gas and trying to play "freedom's last defender" by getting in to every gun battle I possibly can. If I can get through a short term SHTF without firing a shot, fine by me. This. It's me and my wife (who has a degenerative hip problem) at 40 y.o., with a pair of teenage girls and a 9 y.o. boy. There's won't be much shoot-and-scoot or Braveheart with that crowd. If a public appearance becomes necessary it's a concealed pistol and the quickest trip possible. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:30:03 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm thinking one second after style shtf. Most electronic dead, starving people wandering the countryside looting. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1. Define "SHTF" 2. Pretty much.... NO.  I'm thinking one second after style shtf. Most electronic dead, starving people wandering the countryside looting. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Why would starving people head to the country instead of hitting storage warehouses? Are they suddenly going to discover the skills to turn raw product into food? |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:33:56 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably not, but SHTF is such a confused and amorphous concept I'd wager that the marginal difference between a 20" and a 16" wouldn't matter. My thoughts as well. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:39:49 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How far are 90% of your shots going to be if the SHTF? Within 100yds? .................. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
PRO's :Turns m193 into a better AP than m855, longer sight radius for iron sights when batteries are gone, softer shooting gun. CON's :Less compact, heavier depending on barrel profile. How far are 90% of your shots going to be if the SHTF? Within 100yds? .................. Probably within 10 |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:40:34 AM EDT
[#42]
I love a 20" and it's definitely in my collection as a go to rifle, but a 16" is my main rifle.
ETA: Actually my 11.5" is my main, but more than likely the wife unit will get that and I'd use the 16" |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:41:22 AM EDT
[#43]
I've said it a hundred times. I like to shoot the 20. I like to carry the 16. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:45:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most realistic SHTF scenarios, you'd be best served with a concealed, higher capacity 9mm pistol with a couple extra mags. Your well being will be in as much danger from the state as it will thugs and thieves. As evidenced in other shtf incidents in this country. Become invisible. Don't cause issues. Stay out of the way. Don't stick out. I was thinking the same thing with the pistol, everyone is dickering about how big if a deal 4" of barrel is but my huge '44's with a 7.5" barrel is still much more maneuverable than a 7.5" AR-15 pistol. That said II like my 20", it isn't a heavy rifle (I know a 16" set up the same way would be a little lighter) and using iron sights the extra sight radius is nice and I don't have to worry about a scope getting hurt. My slug gun would probably be my go to though. I have deer hunted with it for over a decade, we are very well acquainted. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:46:45 AM EDT
[#45]
The way I envision shtf is a lot of people living like it was 1700 again. That means farming during the day, hunting during the night, and defense make up your daily routine.
You are gonna want to put as much distance between those working the land and potential threats. So take lessons from various firebases such as those in Vietnam. Defoliate the area to a distance beyond conventional rifle attacks and ensure armored vehicles cannot rush your compound via block-aids, moats, and draw bridges .etc Since static defense is a priority long range rifles with fast followup will be most useful. A 16" AR with 75gr rounds is still super-sonic at 800yds and can be highly accurate with the right rifle, however someone with a 7mm Hunting Rifle shooting beyond your defoliated area may wipe the floor with your farm hands. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:47:09 AM EDT
[#46]
It depends on the ammo. If you have a gigantic pile of SS109, yes, definitely. The ammo was designed for 20 inch barrels so you're not getting the best performance out of the ammo in a carbine.
If OTOH you have a huge pile of 300 Blackout, go with a carbine. .300 BLK is designed for carbine barrels so they have a greater punch than 5.56 and the difference between .300 BLK and 7.62x39 is only on paper. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:51:45 AM EDT
[#47]
Tons of sense.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:55:40 AM EDT
[#48]
No. Food makes more sense. Hard to hump either while starving.
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Posted: 6/27/2016 11:09:00 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...the difference between .300 BLK and 7.62x39 is only on paper. 300 BLK projectiles can be very expensive if you reload quality bullets... Purchasing 300 BLK? HAHAHA! Don't bother. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 11:19:19 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree. Get comfortable and competent with the better tool for the job. A carbine is the quintessential SHTF weapon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No. I disagree, use what you are comfortable and competent with. I disagree. Get comfortable and competent with the better tool for the job. A carbine is the quintessential SHTF weapon. I would give that honor to the tactical shotgun. You can do everything with it from door breaching to taking small birds to taking large game to making sure a bad guy becomes dead to even crowd control (have you seen what Dragons breath looks like at night?) Plus you can put a rifled barrel on it for longer ranges. |
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