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Posted: 5/25/2016 2:40:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Potato guns may also be at risk here. But only if they use explosives and not compressed air.
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Posted: 5/25/2016 2:42:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is some ultra concentrated retardidity going on in this thread  The last ATF thread we had was about a proposed change from 2005 and people were getting panties bunched. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 2:51:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I feel like we have been trolled here lately with these old rulings/statutes/etc. What gives? Yeah is there a source other than some random amazon aws link? Where are these docs coming from? Found it: https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2016/05/26/2016-12364/commerce-in-firearms-and-explosives-secure-gun-storage-amended-definition-of-antique-firearm-and |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 2:54:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not caseless. Polymer cased. It's a lot closer to reality than you think. Currently a gun shooting polymer cased ammo doesn't meet the definition of a gun. This. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 3:14:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Looking at how the Daisy VL worked and looking at how a modern pellet gun works, wouldn't simply adding a tiny drop of diesel fuel to the rear of the pellet make the pellet into a uncased ammo, while the gun then becomes a firearm(if the diesel ignites)? or simply the explosion of the air it self(release of the air causing the projectile to move down barrel), maybe im confused .
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Posted: 5/25/2016 5:05:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking at how the Daisy VL worked and looking at how a modern pellet gun works, wouldn't simply adding a tiny drop of diesel fuel to the rear of the pellet make the pellet into a uncased ammo, while the gun then becomes a firearm(if the diesel ignites)? or simply the explosion of the air it self(release of the air causing the projectile to move down barrel), maybe im confused . The difference is a traditional pellet rifle is designed to only use compressed air to launch the projectile. The VL was designed from the start to actually launch the projectile via combustion of the gunpowder. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 5:16:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck, fuckty fuck. I hate the fucking ATF....fucking bunch of fucktard fuckbags. This. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 5:20:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like it ALSO turns a spud gun into a firearm. Plastic PVC barrel and chamber. Explosive mixture of hair spray and air, potato for projectile = FIREARM. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's also going after cannons and other fun stuff that doesn't use fixed case ammo. Plastic PVC barrel and chamber. Explosive mixture of hair spray and air, potato for projectile = FIREARM. Ghost Cannons 80% PVC tubes ?? |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 5:33:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well there is that wave of muzzleloading gang crime. lol you think the ATF cares about gang crime? |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 5:38:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doesn't including black powder rifles and shotguns then close a "convicted felon with firearm" loophole too? Or is the wording on that different already. From what I've been told, prohibited in IA means prohibited from BP already, some other states are similar. I was told prohibited here means prohibited from "dangerous weapons"-which are defined as weapons "designed to kill or injure a human or animal". Who knows though, as this would include bows-and DNR has publicly said many times that felons can bowhunt. I think we can all agree ATF logic is a can of bullshit in any case. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 5:52:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Powder is a propellant, not an explosive.
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Posted: 5/25/2016 6:05:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore" Unless your PVC is rifled, your spud gun should be GTG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's also going after cannons and other fun stuff that doesn't use fixed case ammo. Plastic PVC barrel and chamber. Explosive mixture of hair spray and air, potato for projectile = FIREARM. Unless your PVC is rifled, your spud gun should be GTG Not in IA. Offensive Weapons-short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns OR OTHER OBJECT that fires a projectile greater than 6/10 of an inch. Most potatoes are over 6/10", and there is no mention made of propellant, powder or explosive. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 6:12:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is gunpowder considered and explosive legally? |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 6:17:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Time to write ATF some Letters
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FATF FATF |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 11:33:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And t-shirt cannons, potato guns, nail guns, dummy launcers and everything else fun that we are still allowed freedom to enjoy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Written to cover case-less and polymer cased ammo. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And t-shirt cannons, potato guns, nail guns, dummy launcers and everything else fun that we are still allowed freedom to enjoy. That is the first thing I thought of They, just like any other Govt agency, increasing their power and justifying their existence. |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 8:45:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The definitions are codified in the laws themselves. The ATF can't change the language, only the interpretation. The "Law" consists of both the statute passed by congress and signed by the president along with any and all implementing regulatory guidance as well as sub regulatory guidance. Once a statute is passed it is given to the cognizant federal agency to develop regulations. Those regulations "interpret" the language in the statute and they go out for public comment. Any significant change in those regulations requires additional public comment which must be responded to by the cognizant federal agency. The short story is that an ATF rule change like this has to go through the rule making process including public comment, where people can point out the increased scope of the law and ask for attitudinal clarification to limit this change to just encompass careless or pplymer cased ammunition, rather than expanding the scope of the law to cover muzzle loading firearms, which were clearly not part of the original intent of the law. So...rather than sitting around bitching and saying "fuck" on the internet and blaming the ATF for a rule change, why don't we all instead actually uphold our responsibilities as citizens and: 1) respond to the proposed rule change during the public comment period; and 2) contact your congressmen and senators directly to express your concern, so that they can express their concern to the ATF that the proposed rule change could result in an increase in scope that violates the intent of the statute. The issue appears to be a lack of clarity in differentiating muzzle loaders as "antique firearms" from rifles and shotguns under the revised definitions of "antique firearms", "rifle" and "shotgun". The intent of the rule change may well be to include certain modern muzzle loader designs into the "antique firearm" definition to reduce the need for FFLs to treat these as firearms (although I'm not clear what muzzle loaders this would apply to - anything center fire weapon with a swap barrel option for a muzzle loader should all ready be treated as a firearm, and this would not change under the proposed rule. The concern is that the new definition of "rifle" and "shotgun" removing the metallic cartridge aspect of the definition results in confusion as the projectiles in muzzle loading rifles and shotguns are in fact propelled by black powder, which could be considered to be an "explosive" - much more so than smokeless powder used in metallic cartridge rifles. What we should be requesting is specific language in the rifle and shotgun definitions that specifically excludes muzzle loading arms from these definitions. This would clarify the regulations and would prevent the regulations from being misinterpreted to include muzzle loading arms in the rife and shotgun "firearm" definitions. The NPRM can be found here: https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2016/05/26/2016-12364/commerce-in-firearms-and-explosives-secure-gun-storage-amended-definition-of-antique-firearm-and Public comments can be submitted by mail, by fax, or in the comment portal found here: https://www.regulations.gov/#!home ---- Remember that about a year ago ATF tried to make a rule change withe similar potential for over reach and that after receiving 90,000 public comments they retracted the proposed rule. All it takes to defeat this proposed change, or at least get it clarified to preclude applying firearms regulations to muzzle loaders is a strong public response during the comment period, backed up with contacts with your legislators (particularly, as it is an election year). |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 8:57:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good try anyway, I'll give you that. ex·plo·sion ik'sploZH?n/ noun noun: explosion; plural noun: explosions a violent and destructive shattering or blowing apart of something, as is caused by a bomb. synonyms:detonation, eruption, blowing up; More bang, blast, boom, kaboom "Edward heard the explosion" technical a violent expansion in which energy is transmitted outward as a shock wave. a sudden outburst of something such as noise, light, or violent emotion, especially anger. "an explosion of anger" A.W.D. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
modern powders are not explosives. they don't explode, they burn. The number of the powder is an indication of the burn rate of the powder. nothing explodes when I fire a firearm. The powder burns and expanding gases propel the bullet. By the ATF's definition, nothing I own is a rifle or a shotgun.... Good try anyway, I'll give you that. ex·plo·sion ik'sploZH?n/ noun noun: explosion; plural noun: explosions a violent and destructive shattering or blowing apart of something, as is caused by a bomb. synonyms:detonation, eruption, blowing up; More bang, blast, boom, kaboom "Edward heard the explosion" technical a violent expansion in which energy is transmitted outward as a shock wave. a sudden outburst of something such as noise, light, or violent emotion, especially anger. "an explosion of anger" A.W.D. the government makes a distinction between burning propellant and explosives in other areas...why should firearms be any different?.. |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 8:58:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Black Powder is not an explosive in the strictest sense. It does not detonate. The percussion cap does. Perhaps everyone will have to go back to flintlocks. I thought black powder was a low order explosive and smokeless powder wasn't? |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 9:00:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BP muzzleloaders would become firearms |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 9:05:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The definitions are codified in the laws themselves. The ATF can't change the language, only the interpretation. So if you violate their interpretation, you can lose your families, months to years of your life, and hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, even when found non guilty. Can't beat the ride. |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 9:09:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
BP muzzeloaders would become firearms Yep |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 9:11:57 PM EDT
[#22]
that s interesting I have a client who just got an allowance on a patent application for something that wouldn't have been a rifle or shotgun and now would be a rifle. (he s a member here)
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Posted: 5/26/2016 11:42:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every time the ATF says something, a bunch of you think they're "coming after" some class of firearm. It doesn't work that way. You guys really need to get a better understanding of how the law works and chill the fuck out.  |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 12:27:47 AM EDT
[#24]
slightly off topic the way the thread is going, but
a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. any body else see a 16 inch 12 ga slug gun with out a tax stamp? |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 12:33:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The definitions are codified in the laws themselves. The ATF can't change the language, only the interpretation. They "can't" hand weapons to criminals in the hope that they kill people for the purpose of making political fodder, either, but we all know how that turned out. |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 8:52:05 AM EDT
[#26]
FATF
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Posted: 5/27/2016 8:55:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
slightly off topic the way the thread is going, but a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. any body else see a 16 inch 12 ga slug gun with out a tax stamp? Destructive Device. Still a tax stamp |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 8:58:27 AM EDT
[#28]
For those who are saying "everything is fine, no major changes," ask yourself; Why make this change now?
These changes were codified into law almost TWENTY YEARS AGO. This is a Clinton era bill that was signed into law. WHY is the BATFE doing this now? They are inefficient, yes, but this smacks of some other ulterior motive. I have no idea what it is, but they have enough of a track record that I am not about to give them the benefit of the doubt. |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 9:06:08 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought black powder was a low order explosive and smokeless powder wasn't? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Black Powder is not an explosive in the strictest sense. It does not detonate. The percussion cap does. Perhaps everyone will have to go back to flintlocks. I thought black powder was a low order explosive and smokeless powder wasn't? Black powder is on the border between low explosive and high explosive and will detonate under some circumstances. Smokeless powder is firmly in the low explosive category. |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 9:06:16 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Smokeless powder isn't an explosive, it's an accelerant, undergoing deflagration and not detonation. Wouldn't that be a fun defense? "No, Mr ATF, this isn't a rifle, as there is no explosive." 
For post 4000, love the thought process of ya all. Yup, smokeless powder is not an explosive. Black powder is. |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 9:12:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
BP muzzeloaders would become firearms Yep Yeah the BP loop hole will be closed and subject to same draconian regulation 
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Posted: 5/27/2016 9:21:26 AM EDT
[#32]
Silly feds. Smokeless powder is a propellant.
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Posted: 5/27/2016 9:26:56 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Destructive Device. Still a tax stamp Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
slightly off topic the way the thread is going, but a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. any body else see a 16 inch 12 ga slug gun with out a tax stamp? Destructive Device. Still a tax stamp 12 gauge has a "sporting use" exemption. It wouldn't be a DD, for the same reason .700 nitro express and 4 bore double rifles aren't. Although it would still be a SBS-due to being able to fire shotshells(safely, but with shitty patterns) without changing the barrel and because of the ease of changing the barrel to a shot barrel. |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 9:34:42 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
BP muzzeloaders would become firearms Yep Motherfucker! Haven't the antis always said that the constitution was written back when the only guns you could get were black powder muzzle loaders? Didn't they always say we could have all the muskets we want? Didn't they say it was all the evil black assault rifles that they were after? Now they want to regulate our fucking muzzle loaders too? This is some horseshit!! |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 9:37:44 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"pass the powder horn homie, I'm about to smoke these fools" said no gang member ever Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Gangs are tearing up the cities with muzzleloaders. Busloads of kids killed by grapeshot... Uncased ammo is a plague on our society. "pass the powder horn homie, I'm about to smoke these fools" said no gang member ever
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Posted: 5/27/2016 9:38:45 AM EDT
[#36]
My AR15 identifies as a sling shot, sorry.
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Posted: 5/27/2016 9:54:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Black powder has its own section of the law.
This is to modernize for other types of cases other than metal, or caseless (if that ever happens). |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 11:46:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For those who are saying "everything is fine, no major changes," ask yourself; Why make this change now? These changes were codified into law almost TWENTY YEARS AGO. This is a Clinton era bill that was signed into law. WHY is the BATFE doing this now? They are inefficient, yes, but this smacks of some other ulterior motive. I have no idea what it is, but they have enough of a track record that I am not about to give them the benefit of the doubt. You're not to familiar with the way bureaucracy works, are you. After the statute was changed some supervisor told some attorney working for BATF to draft regulations to match the statute. He worked on those regulations off and on when he got bored not working on other things (he wasn't exactly the brightest bulb in the attorney string, which is why he was given the task) - until he quit when Bush was elected. The supervisor took a job on K street at the same time. No one in the agency paid any attention or particularly cared about the difference in the regulations and the statute (they still don't). After out current Dear Leader was re-elected a major donor wanted a job for his not-too-bright child who had managed to cheat his way through law school but couldn't pass the bar. Since he was a major donor the child got a job at BATFE. As he was practically incapable of doing anything related to the law, he was assigned to complete these regulations (which were found stuffed into someone's bottom desk drawer). He toiled away copying the words from the statute into a preexisting form for regulations (after someone found both the statute and the regulation form and printed them out for him) for three years. He turned it in a couple of months ago. His supervisor gave it to a secretary (who cleaned up the misspellings) and gave it back to her boss. |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 12:38:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're not to familiar with the way bureaucracy works, are you. After the statute was changed some supervisor told some attorney working for BATF to draft regulations to match the statute. He worked on those regulations off and on when he got bored not working on other things (he wasn't exactly the brightest bulb in the attorney string, which is why he was given the task) - until he quit when Bush was elected. The supervisor took a job on K street at the same time. No one in the agency paid any attention or particularly cared about the difference in the regulations and the statute (they still don't). After out current Dear Leader was re-elected a major donor wanted a job for his not-too-bright child who had managed to cheat his way through law school but couldn't pass the bar. Since he was a major donor the child got a job at BATFE. As he was practically incapable of doing anything related to the law, he was assigned to complete these regulations (which were found stuffed into someone's bottom desk drawer). He toiled away copying the words from the statute into a preexisting form for regulations (after someone found both the statute and the regulation form and printed them out for him) for three years. He turned it in a couple of months ago. His supervisor gave it to a secretary (who cleaned up the misspellings) and gave it back to her boss. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For those who are saying "everything is fine, no major changes," ask yourself; Why make this change now? These changes were codified into law almost TWENTY YEARS AGO. This is a Clinton era bill that was signed into law. WHY is the BATFE doing this now? They are inefficient, yes, but this smacks of some other ulterior motive. I have no idea what it is, but they have enough of a track record that I am not about to give them the benefit of the doubt. You're not to familiar with the way bureaucracy works, are you. After the statute was changed some supervisor told some attorney working for BATF to draft regulations to match the statute. He worked on those regulations off and on when he got bored not working on other things (he wasn't exactly the brightest bulb in the attorney string, which is why he was given the task) - until he quit when Bush was elected. The supervisor took a job on K street at the same time. No one in the agency paid any attention or particularly cared about the difference in the regulations and the statute (they still don't). After out current Dear Leader was re-elected a major donor wanted a job for his not-too-bright child who had managed to cheat his way through law school but couldn't pass the bar. Since he was a major donor the child got a job at BATFE. As he was practically incapable of doing anything related to the law, he was assigned to complete these regulations (which were found stuffed into someone's bottom desk drawer). He toiled away copying the words from the statute into a preexisting form for regulations (after someone found both the statute and the regulation form and printed them out for him) for three years. He turned it in a couple of months ago. His supervisor gave it to a secretary (who cleaned up the misspellings) and gave it back to her boss. That. was. BEAUTIFUL. |
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Posted: 5/27/2016 12:56:02 PM EDT
[#40]
So single explosion per trigger pull...so that makes full auto rifles legal to buy? They are no longer classified as a rifle. Haha
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 1:53:02 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Motherfucker! Haven't the antis always said that the constitution was written back when the only guns you could get were black powder muzzle loaders? Didn't they always say we could have all the muskets we want? Didn't they say it was all the evil black assault rifles that they were after? Now they want to regulate our fucking muzzle loaders too? This is some horseshit!! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: BP muzzeloaders would become firearms Yep Motherfucker! Haven't the antis always said that the constitution was written back when the only guns you could get were black powder muzzle loaders? Didn't they always say we could have all the muskets we want? Didn't they say it was all the evil black assault rifles that they were after? Now they want to regulate our fucking muzzle loaders too? This is some horseshit!! |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 1:56:08 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Black powder has its own section of the law. This is to modernize for other types of cases other than metal, or caseless (if that ever happens). The VL rifle was a caseless single shot that ignited with compressed air. It was heated when compressed and was the source.of ignition for the powder. ATF shut them down.   |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 2:08:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought black powder was a low order explosive and smokeless powder wasn't? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Black Powder is not an explosive in the strictest sense. It does not detonate. The percussion cap does. Perhaps everyone will have to go back to flintlocks. I thought black powder was a low order explosive and smokeless powder wasn't? Black powder is a chemical explosive and the only reason it is not regulated by all of the relevant explosives laws in 18 U.S.C. is due to a specific exemption for black powder/reloading components. 18 U.S. Code § 841 - Definitions (c) “Explosive materials” means explosives, blasting agents, and detonators.
(d) Except for the purposes of subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), and (j) of section 844 of this title, “explosives” means any chemical compound mixture, or device, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion; the term includes, but is not limited to, dynamite and other high explosives, black powder, pellet powder, initiating explosives, detonators, safety fuses, squibs, detonating cord, igniter cord, and igniters. The Attorney General shall publish and revise at least annually in the Federal Register a list of these and any additional explosives which he determines to be within the coverage of this chapter. For the purposes of subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), and (i) of section 844 of this title, the term “explosive” is defined in subsection (j) of such section 844. The exception: 18 U.S. Code § 845 - Exceptions; relief from disabilities (a) Except in the case of subsection (
l ), (m), (n), or ( o ) of section 842 and subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), and (i) of section 844 of this title, this chapter shall not apply to: ... (5) commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed fifty pounds, percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers, intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in section 921(a)(16) of title 18 of the United States Code, or in antique devices as exempted from the term “destructive device” in section 921(a)(4) of title 18 of the United States Code; |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 2:30:47 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep now they're going after blackpowder Already gone after BP. In the 80's I could get a can of Goex, off the shelves at two local sporting goods shops and the feed store for like $5/can. Still sparingly using two of three cans of FFG I bought at the only place I could find it about 4 years ago. Price was $29/can and I was lucky to find it at a gun shop I just happened to stop in during a trip. Real BP is the only thing that works reliably in my side lock. Yeah, you can order a ton to offset hazmat crapola, but I don't use a ton. Now this new thing sound like it's going to make BP guns more expensive. A thousand cuts. |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 2:52:02 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why does the ATF get to decide what a rifle is? Because the Executive branch is drunk with power. Mostly because Republicans in the House + Senate are a bunch of pussies. This is why DT is the nominee, to the horror of many of us. Get elected = do your fucking job! |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 12:09:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
BP muzzeloaders would become firearms Yep Motherfucker! Haven't the antis always said that the constitution was written back when the only guns you could get were black powder muzzle loaders? Didn't they always say we could have all the muskets we want? Didn't they say it was all the evil black assault rifles that they were after? Now they want to regulate our fucking muzzle loaders too? This is some horseshit!! Flintlock from 1700s could land elderly NJ man in prisonNew Jersey Man Faces 10-Years For 1760s Flintlock PistolNew Jersey Arrests 72 Year Old For Antique Flintlock Pistol PossessionYup, they are firearms under NJ law. Having one in public without a CCW will get you charged, just like that guy. |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 12:45:14 PM EDT
[#47]
They are just getting ready for the phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.
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Posted: 5/28/2016 2:59:59 PM EDT
[#48]
You will need to go to a FFL for these now.
http://www.paslode.com/ |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 3:29:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Silly feds. Smokeless powder is a propellant. Nitrocellulose is technically a high explosive. Some of the double base powders (nitrocellulose/ nitroglycerin) are even cap sensitive, or so I've been told. |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 3:40:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Caseless happened in 1968 with Daisy Air Guns. The VL rifle was a caseless single shot that ignited with compressed air. It was heated when compressed and was the source.of ignition for the powder. ATF shut them down. http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12831/13171141_1.jpg?v=8CF37199B9B0FF0 http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-24947587498613_2421_158859830.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Black powder has its own section of the law. This is to modernize for other types of cases other than metal, or caseless (if that ever happens). The VL rifle was a caseless single shot that ignited with compressed air. It was heated when compressed and was the source.of ignition for the powder. ATF shut them down. http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12831/13171141_1.jpg?v=8CF37199B9B0FF0 http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-24947587498613_2421_158859830.jpg |
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