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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:15:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the other 3 mags, along with the ones blown out the magazine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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First? Damn, well in. Do you have the rest of the ammo from that box? In the other 3 mags, along with the ones blown out the magazine. Id say start pulling and weighing but I'm sure Federal will want them. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:16:17 PM EDT
[#2]
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How would powder from the weak round end up in another round? Especially since I tore the gun down betewwn the "squib" and the kaboom 3 rounds later? How about some details of how to make Federal replace my upper and BCG? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Part of the powder charge from the weak round ended up in the casing that went kaboom or the round was under-loaded enough to cause the casing to explode. Federal will be buying you a new rifle. How would powder from the weak round end up in another round? Especially since I tore the gun down betewwn the "squib" and the kaboom 3 rounds later? How about some details of how to make Federal replace my upper and BCG? he means when it was manufactured. a little powder for you, a little powder for you, a little powder for you, a little powder for you... not so much for you...extra for you....a little powder for you..... |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:17:12 PM EDT
[#3]
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Glad your face didn't get fucked up. Or would it have been an improvement?  Me too.I hide my face behind facial hair as much as possible. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:17:19 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ammo for sure. I don't think OOB is possible in the AR. considering the pin can't reach the primer till its in battery. That is a common misconception. There a few different albeit unlikely scenarios that can lead to an OOB discharge in an otherwise functional AR15. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:17:32 PM EDT
[#5]
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Contact both, sounds like it's on Federal. Sorry bout your rifle. I am anxious to see if they actually pay him for his rifle |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:17:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Those damn e-lander mags at it again...
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:18:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Well.....that sucks.
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:19:01 PM EDT
[#8]
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Perhaps but what caused the round to not chamber fully when he assembled and went to shoot it again? Prior to the KB? Seems the gun was trying to tell him something...but what exactly? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Reading your troubleshooting steps and scratching my head. Not sure what you could have missed. He did everything right. Federal is at fault here. Perhaps but what caused the round to not chamber fully when he assembled and went to shoot it again? Prior to the KB? Seems the gun was trying to tell him something...but what exactly? That's what I'm wondering. Forgot to mention the ammo looked fine and inserted into the chamber fully when I dropped it in without the BCG in place before re-assembling everything. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:20:45 PM EDT
[#9]
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Can you torn the light on in the basement and take some new pics? I have no camera skills and just an old pointy shooty Samsung digital. Utahvarminter will be along in a few hours and post beautiful macro pics for your gun porn viewing pleasure. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:21:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no camera skills and just an old pointy shooty Samsung digital. Utahvarminter will be along in a few hours and post beautiful macro pics for your gun porn viewing pleasure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can you torn the light on in the basement and take some new pics? I have no camera skills and just an old pointy shooty Samsung digital. Utahvarminter will be along in a few hours and post beautiful macro pics for your gun porn viewing pleasure. I don't have a necro fettish. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:22:15 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M8938ab6a9d0cbd1c33ccde07c58cfa34o0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=203&h=153 fixer right up! As long as you have all your fingers and eyes.......... As it happens I have a couple rolls of duct tape and 2 full tubes of JB Weld as previously suggested. I'm all set. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:23:20 PM EDT
[#12]
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BCG won't come out of the upper. Even tried a mallet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gas key fucked up ? BCG won't come out of the upper. Even tried a mallet. That's cray |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:25:03 PM EDT
[#13]
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BCG won't come out of the upper. Even tried a mallet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gas key fucked up ? BCG won't come out of the upper. Even tried a mallet. did you get the upper and lower separated? |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:25:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what is the sequence of events in that situation. the barrel didnt blow out, so what happens? cartridge ruptures. gas makes it back to the BCG, starts opening, then blasts the BCG backwards? how far do you think the BCG cycled? did it make it to the back and then forward, or did it stop where it currently sits. how the fuck did the dust shield end up like that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sounds like an ammo problem. Without seeing the BCG out of the gun it looks like it was overloaded. what is the sequence of events in that situation. the barrel didnt blow out, so what happens? cartridge ruptures. gas makes it back to the BCG, starts opening, then blasts the BCG backwards? how far do you think the BCG cycled? did it make it to the back and then forward, or did it stop where it currently sits. how the fuck did the dust shield end up like that? gun goes kaboom, BCG is set back a bit, all that hot gas blew out the bottom of the magazine pretty forcefully. I expect the dust cover is bowed because the upper split. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:25:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Cam pin?
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:29:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Easy there Trav-dawg....
This is what you get for using a middy OP. It's the boxer-brief of the AR world. A misshapen, godforsaken hybrid like a zebroid or a liger! Pick a side, carbine or rifle dammit! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is what happens when you trust your life to these hobby guns. You need a quality, factory built upper. Oh... wait... Easy there Trav-dawg....
This is what you get for using a middy OP. It's the boxer-brief of the AR world. A misshapen, godforsaken hybrid like a zebroid or a liger! Pick a side, carbine or rifle dammit! You shut your whore mouth! Midlengths are what Eugene Stoner would have built,
but the Illuminati/TriLateral Commission/Counsel on Foreign Relations/Skull&Bones/Bildebergers/Getty's/Rothschilds/The Queen/The Vatican/ The Colonel (before he went teets up!) wouldn't let him! |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:29:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Glad you are ok.... Interested in how this turns out
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:30:35 PM EDT
[#19]
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Lol federal ain't going to buy SHIT. They will say BCM is at fault and BCM will say Federal is at fault and OP will still have a blown up gun 5 weeks from now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Part of the powder charge from the weak round ended up in the casing that went kaboom or the round was under-loaded enough to cause the casing to explode. Federal will be buying you a new rifle. My thoughts as well. Lol federal ain't going to buy SHIT. They will say BCM is at fault and BCM will say Federal is at fault and OP will still have a blown up gun 5 weeks from now. That's my expectation. Federal won't own up to anything, and I don't expect Paul to replace an upper that kaboomed because of ammo. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:31:18 PM EDT
[#20]
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If you shoot enough you will have an OOB sooner or later. Big thing is if you are not hurt, try to figure out what happened and go from there. I've had 2 and there was not a damn thing I would have done different to avoid the next. The BCG and FCG are designed in such a manner that basically prevents an OOB, needing the carrier to be far forward enough for the hammer to reach the firing pin. There are other factors that could potentially cause an OOB, but they are extremely rare in the platform. I would wager that both of your "OOB" detonations were under or overloaded ammo or obstructed barrels. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:32:07 PM EDT
[#21]
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Except it was squib, failure to load, bang bang kaboom. ETA, glad my Dad ain't dead or maimed. I need a shooting partner. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Scratchin my head on this one. OP sounds like he did everything he could have. Only thing I can figure is whatever cause the round right before the KB to not chamber was pushed into the bore creating an obstruction???? This is a weird one. Except it was squib, failure to load, bang bang kaboom. ETA, glad my Dad ain't dead or maimed. I need a shooting partner. And it wasn't a squib, the round fired, no bullet left in the bore. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:32:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Holy shit, OP.
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:34:12 PM EDT
[#23]
New pics - holy shitsnacks.
Impressive carnage. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:34:42 PM EDT
[#24]
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Federal will stand behind this if they are found to be at fault. All I shoot and stock in every caliber is Federal and this is one of the reasons why. Got some specific contact info to save me some wasted time on their phone tree? |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:35:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOP is going to find what I expect to be a cracked barrel extension, a completely destroyed BCG and most likely a gnarly case head rupture when he gets that sucker apart. Compromised brass happens. To us all. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:35:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could be the fumes from vegetable oil lube exploded . Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Aah, my thoughts as well until I remembered that I only use Slip 2000 because Pat Rogers! RIP! |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:36:57 PM EDT
[#27]
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+1. Most of these threads i find my self thinking "what was going through that dumb asses head when he did that?" This is not one of those cases. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Reading your troubleshooting steps and scratching my head. Not sure what you could have missed. +1. Most of these threads i find my self thinking "what was going through that dumb asses head when he did that?" This is not one of those cases. Oh, I can accurately be assessed to be a dumb ass most of the time. Fortunately, maybe not this time. Most of my dumbassery is less expensive. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:36:57 PM EDT
[#28]
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That's my expectation. Federal won't own up to anything, and I don't expect Paul to replace an upper that kaboomed because of ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Part of the powder charge from the weak round ended up in the casing that went kaboom or the round was under-loaded enough to cause the casing to explode. Federal will be buying you a new rifle. My thoughts as well. Lol federal ain't going to buy SHIT. They will say BCM is at fault and BCM will say Federal is at fault and OP will still have a blown up gun 5 weeks from now. That's my expectation. Federal won't own up to anything, and I don't expect Paul to replace an upper that kaboomed because of ammo. I wouldn't expect him to but i wouldn't be surprised if he tried to help you out |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:38:12 PM EDT
[#29]
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You're right. I forgot the bang bang part. 
OK, I'm back to scratching my head. For all that pressure to be dumped into the receiver.....Are the bolt lugs sheared off? Do you have the offending case and what does it look like? Vented out the case head??? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Scratchin my head on this one. OP sounds like he did everything he could have. Only thing I can figure is whatever cause the round right before the KB to not chamber was pushed into the bore creating an obstruction???? This is a weird one. Except it was squib, failure to load, bang bang kaboom. ETA, glad my Dad ain't dead or maimed. I need a shooting partner. You're right. I forgot the bang bang part.
OK, I'm back to scratching my head. For all that pressure to be dumped into the receiver.....Are the bolt lugs sheared off? Do you have the offending case and what does it look like? Vented out the case head??? case is fused/locked in with the stuck BCG in the barrel |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:40:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Look how hard the lower part of the BCG smacked the top rounds in the mag when it split. You can see brass and copper marks on it that could only come from flattening them out enough to leave that wide of a mark....Crazy PSI.
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:40:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
he means when it was manufactured. a little powder for you, a little powder for you, a little powder for you, a little powder for you... not so much for you...extra for you....a little powder for you..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Part of the powder charge from the weak round ended up in the casing that went kaboom or the round was under-loaded enough to cause the casing to explode. Federal will be buying you a new rifle. How would powder from the weak round end up in another round? Especially since I tore the gun down betewwn the "squib" and the kaboom 3 rounds later? How about some details of how to make Federal replace my upper and BCG? he means when it was manufactured. a little powder for you, a little powder for you, a little powder for you, a little powder for you... not so much for you...extra for you....a little powder for you..... Aah, I get it now. Little slow today. Maybe it's PTKD post traumatic kaboom disorder? Can I get federal disability now? Free Federal ammo for life? |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:41:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am anxious to see if they actually pay him for his rifle Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Contact both, sounds like it's on Federal. Sorry bout your rifle. I am anxious to see if they actually pay him for his rifle don't hold your breath |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:46:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could it have been bullet setback? The reason I ask in that I have some Federal AR223 50 grain varmint tipped rounds that had bullet setback on one chambering. I had the AR loaded and cleared it, looked at the round and the bullet was way shorter than it should've been. I touched the tip and it fell all the way into the brass until it contacted the powder. Several rounds of this ammo has had the same problem. I have about 300 rounds of it and I'm scared to shoot it now. I shot setbacks before and never had an issue, less of an issue for rifle rounds than pistol rounds |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:46:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Is the barrel clear? I know you cleared it before firing; just curious if the projectile from the final round made it out.
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:47:29 PM EDT
[#35]
I'd like to see the barrel. Any chance that the squib bullet failed to clear the barrel? That would be my best guess.
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:48:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the barrel clear? I know you cleared it before firing; just curious if the projectile from the final round made it out. Great minds and all that... |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:51:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is what happens when you trust your life to these hobby guns. You need a quality, factory built upper. Oh... wait... 
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:51:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Thanks to all those who expressed their condolences and relief that I am undamaged.
Fortunately for me, I was wearing my old, smelly, lucky BCM shooting hat. 
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:52:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Rifle/Shotgun quals next week, so on a day off I hit the range to confirm zero and shoot the new CMP Garand. 40+ rounds in I had a KaBoom. I've had the rifle several years, unknown round count, 3000-4000 maybe? LMT lower, upper is a BCM Midlength, LMT or early non-logo BCM BCG, don't remember which, bought from BCM. KMR added last year. Ammo: Federal black box XM193 Like I said, about 40 rounds in, I was doing snap drills at the 100yd silhouette plate. A round fired, but sounded weak like a squib, and the brass didn't eject. I manually ejected the case and inspected it - perfectly normal. No signs of pressure, no splits, cracks, etc. & primer looked fine. Took the upper off the lower, ran a patch thru the bore, bore looked fine. Ok, I thought, we're good. Put it back together and inserted magazine. Round wouldn't fully chamber. Inspected the round and it looked fine. Pulled the upper from the lower again, and reinspected everything. Nothing visible in the chamber. BCG, everything else looked fine. Got out the kit and ran the broken shell extractor thru 3 times. Inspected again. Everything looked good and perfectly normal. Checked the magazine and those rounds looked fine and normal. Put everything back together, inserted magazine, round chambered fine. Bang, bang, both normal, then KaBoom. Here's the result: http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0943_zpszzexcapw.jpg http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0944_zpsljfi9pcq.jpg http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0945_zpscrm3l6dq.jpg http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0949_zpsixwqbeyy.jpg http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0950_zpstsycwnzm.jpg http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0948_zpsn6ha9yiz.jpg http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0947_zpsdfjioqbx.jpg http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0946_zpsfehagpfo.jpg No idea what happened. Can't think of what I could have missed. Bad ammo? More pics to follow as I try to strip it down. Bolt is locked up into buffer tube, rear takedown lug is sheared off. Glad I have a backup for next week, and SWMBO is so glad I'm not injured (other than my pride?  )
that she's insisting that I replace it with whatever I need. I'll be getting on the BCM website to see what they have in stock. Stay safe out there. ETA: Able to remove buffer tube and KMR. Lower looks good, micrometer measurements check out. The BCG is solidly fused in the barrel. To answer some questions, after the "squib"-like round, everything checked out. clean, unobstructed bore, spent round looked 100% normal, nothing caught by the broken shell extractor. Zip, zilch, zero nada. Then 2 more rounds fired perfectly normally, pings on the 100yd steel plate. Then "big bada boom" a la 5th element. Hot blast of gas in the face - eye pro intact, always wear them guys! Hot blast of gas at my feet along with the mag baseplate and several deformed rounds. And a surprised/shocked/pissed off look on my face. Moar pics: BCG is set back into buffer tube area http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0951_zpsumenmq6j.jpg bolt driven back into BCG http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0953_zpsgo8gsgfg.jpg http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0954_zpsvgm4bsv4.jpg http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0955_zpsaxqebup1.jpg E Lander mag will not buff out I fear. http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0958_zpsuzneosap.jpg http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0957_zpsnzku7mbv.jpg rounds blown out the bottom of the mag. I was going to just run them thru another gun.... http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/utaherrn/SAM_0956_zpsb8jrgbua.jpg I'm out a middy upper, BCG and ambi CH.
And the Vortex FH is fused to the barrel, can't get it off. I have no issue with BCM. The gun stood up well to a kaboom, better than some I've seen. Thank you Paul for a quality product. I strongly suspect ammo is the culprit. So for all the talk of Federal making this right, who's done it? How did you do it? No ammo box, no lot #. The ammo was acquired some time ago, as I had intended to test these E Lander mags last year, and just now got around to it. I have 3 other mags full, loaded at the same time. No intention of shooting it up though. When my son Utahvarminter gets home from work, I'll have him post better detailed pics with his super expensive camera. I have a feeling that without the ammo lot number, Federal isn't going to do shit about it. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:54:16 PM EDT
[#40]
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did you get the upper and lower separated? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gas key fucked up ? BCG won't come out of the upper. Even tried a mallet. did you get the upper and lower separated? He got the upper and the upper separated. Didn't you see the crack?
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:56:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Sounds like the powder drop no worky. An under-charged load can blow a gun. Maybe pull some bullets and weigh out the charges in the rest of the ammo.
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Posted: 5/23/2016 5:01:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OST for later review. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 5:02:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Holy crap on the new pictures.
If a simple case head separation can cause that much damage, I'm thinking about looking at how to better vent my bbl extension. But, look how it blew the BC apart right at the "cylinder" part. Like it was way overgassed and actually blew it up right there. Is that even possible for the gas tube to carry enough pressure back to the bolt carrier and cause it to burst??? |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 5:03:14 PM EDT
[#44]
The red rod is a standard .22 dia.
The blue rod is a .17 The red rod inserts approx. 15.5", up to the case mouth I expect The blue rod inserts approx 17.5", up to the case head/bolt face? 
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Posted: 5/23/2016 5:03:49 PM EDT
[#45]
I think two things happened.
1 - Hot round. Like really hot. Had to be a very compressed load. ETA - Or detonation with like 6gr. of powder. I'm not really up to speed on what a 748 clone does under those conditions. 2 - Carrier had previously developed a small crack. Just guesses. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 5:04:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He got the upper and the upper separated. Didn't you see the crack? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gas key fucked up ? BCG won't come out of the upper. Even tried a mallet. did you get the upper and lower separated? He got the upper and the upper separated. Didn't you see the crack? I'm not exposing my crack for any of you cheeky bum-lookers on here! |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 5:05:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a common misconception. There a few different albeit unlikely scenarios that can lead to an OOB discharge in an otherwise functional AR15. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ammo for sure. I don't think OOB is possible in the AR. considering the pin can't reach the primer till its in battery. That is a common misconception. There a few different albeit unlikely scenarios that can lead to an OOB discharge in an otherwise functional AR15. I can't imagine how, other then possibly a primer popping out of the last round, and somehow setting off the next round as its being fed, setting it off without the lugs being able to turn. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 5:06:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Sucks about the rifle.....but Rifles can be replaced a lot easier than your parts Glad to hear you;re OK
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Posted: 5/23/2016 5:07:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Can you tell if the bolt is in or out of battery?
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Posted: 5/23/2016 5:08:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Glad you did not suffer personal bodily damage ...
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