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Posted: 5/22/2016 2:52:40 PM EDT

A request by a new international airline to fly to the U.S. pits the Obama administration against organized labor and its Republican ally: New Jeresey Rep. Frank LoBiondo.

The chairman of the House aviation subcommittee, LoBiondo and others introduced legislation to prevent Norwegian Air International from flying to the U.S. The lawmakers contend that the airline's business model violates labor protections embedded in the U.S.-European Union agreement that ended most barriers to trans-Atlantic flights.

"It's an airline set up to put American jobs at risk," said LoBiondo (R-2nd Dist.).

The new airline is a subsidiary of Norwegian Air Shuttle, a European-based low-cost carrier that last year flew 26 million passengers to 132 destinations, including Kennedy Airport. It would compete with international flights out of Newark Airport.

The bill would prevent the U.S. Transportation Department from approving Norwegian Air International's certification. The agency has given a tentative OK with a final decision expected later this month.

"This is the future of the airline industry on the table," said Edward Wytkind, president of the AFL-CIO's transportation trades department.

The airline and its allies argue that the unions and the legacy air carriers fear competition. Norwegian Air's new subsidiary will be based in Ireland to take advantage of the U.S.-European Union agreement.

A consultant to Norwegian Air, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State John Byerly, said the bill sponsors "more or less bought the lines from the union opponents of NAI, hook, line and sinker."

The unions say Norwegian Air picked Ireland to take advantage of less restrictive labor laws there, and will use lower-paid crews based in Asia.
View Quote


http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/05/nj_republican_lines_up_with_unions_against_obama_a.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 3:29:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Norwegian company
based in Ireland
using Asian ( chinese) crews

This is what happened to the US Cruise Ship Industry
This is what happened to the US Merchant Marine Industry


If you want to buy a ticket on a western country's airline counting on their training standards, maintenance standards, safety and regulatory standards you need to oppose allowing this to happen.

Otherwise you will fly on a carrier that is bypassing all the western regulatory and safety and training and maintenance standards and being flown by third world country poorly trained pilots, to include Middle  eastern pilots and safety standards.


Captain We tulo

First Officet Ala Snackbar Jeeze
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 3:34:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Good. Too many crashes with Asian airplanes. US safety record is far superior. Also, I don't like the end-run on labor and tax laws. Fly here, fucking pay here.
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 3:40:42 PM EDT
[#3]
"Chinese crews?"

No thanks
Link Posted: 5/24/2016 8:14:12 PM EDT
[#4]
bump
Link Posted: 5/24/2016 8:16:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Norwegian company
based in Ireland
using Asian ( chinese) crews

This is what happened to the US Cruise Ship Industry
This is what happened to the US Merchant Marine Industry


If you want to buy a ticket on a western country's airline counting on their training standards, maintenance standards, safety and regulatory standards you need to oppose allowing this to happen.

Otherwise you will fly on a carrier that is bypassing all the western regulatory and safety and training and maintenance standards and being flown by third world country poorly trained pilots, to include Middle  eastern pilots and safety standards.


Captain We tulo

First Officet Ala Snackbar Jeeze
View Quote


Thanks for providing that insight.
Link Posted: 5/24/2016 8:17:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Norwegian company
based in Ireland
using Asian ( chinese) crews

This is what happened to the US Cruise Ship Industry
This is what happened to the US Merchant Marine Industry


If you want to buy a ticket on a western country's airline counting on their training standards, maintenance standards, safety and regulatory standards you need to oppose allowing this to happen.

Otherwise you will fly on a carrier that is bypassing all the western regulatory and safety and training and maintenance standards and being flown by third world country poorly trained pilots, to include Middle  eastern pilots and safety standards.


Captain We tulo

First Officet Ala Snackbar Jeeze
View Quote


Sorry, but Arfcom's official response is that the CEO's and Board of Directors should do whatever it takes to make themselves money.

That's like capitalism or something.
Link Posted: 5/25/2016 9:17:48 AM EDT
[#7]
Here is a little background.

Long ago major  airline carrier companies formed an alliance of rules. All pilots, flight attendants and mechanics are hired by all companies to the entry level position. It is not possible to move laterally or up when changing companies. A Captain that leaves American for Jetblue leaves a $200,000  job and starts as a new hire copilot for $20,000

As a result, employees are tied to the company. Period.

Safety and safety decisions cost money. Companies have a long history of reprimanding employees that make safety decisions that cost money, to include termination. Human nature what it is means pilots make decisions to keep their jobs and risk safety.

The only thing that has made Western, including the US, airlines as safe as they are are unions backing pilots that make articulated decisions on the side of safety and a regulatory environment mandating and prohibiting certain decisions and operating environments, both resulting in the safety statistics the traveling public enjoys today.

You take both of those away and we will go back to significant accident rates.

That is just the way it is.
Link Posted: 5/25/2016 9:32:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here is a little background.

Long ago major  airline carrier companies formed an alliance of rules. All pilots, flight attendants and mechanics are hired by all companies to the entry level position. It is not possible to move laterally or up when changing companies. A Captain that leaves American for Jetblue leaves a $200,000  job and starts as a new hire copilot for $20,000

As a result, employees are tied to the company. Period.

Safety and safety decisions cost money. Companies have a long history of reprimanding employees that make safety decisions that cost money, to include termination. Human nature what it is means pilots make decisions to keep their jobs and risk safety.

The only thing that has made Western, including the US, airlines as safe as they are are unions backing pilots that make articulated decisions on the side of safety and a regulatory environment mandating and prohibiting certain decisions and operating environments, both resulting in the safety statistics the traveling public enjoys today.

You take both of those away and we will go back to significant accident rates.

That is just the way it is.
View Quote


Easy way to look at this - study accident rates.  See what airlines crash airplanes on the regular - it isn't the western countries.

My personal rule - if you won't drink the tap water, you're best off to not fly their airlines...
Link Posted: 5/25/2016 9:33:32 AM EDT
[#9]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Here is a little background.



Long ago major  airline carrier companies formed an alliance of rules. All pilots, flight attendants and mechanics are hired by all companies to the entry level position. It is not possible to move laterally or up when changing companies. A Captain that leaves American for Jetblue leaves a $200,000  job and starts as a new hire copilot for $20,000



As a result, employees are tied to the company. Period.



Safety and safety decisions cost money. Companies have a long history of reprimanding employees that make safety decisions that cost money, to include termination. Human nature what it is means pilots make decisions to keep their jobs and risk safety.



The only thing that has made Western, including the US, airlines as safe as they are are unions backing pilots that make articulated decisions on the side of safety and a regulatory environment mandating and prohibiting certain decisions and operating environments, both resulting in the safety statistics the traveling public enjoys today.



You take both of those away and we will go back to significant accident rates.



That is just the way it is.
View Quote
Lack of mobility and being tied to one company for life are good things not just for the employee but the public?  



 
Link Posted: 5/25/2016 10:28:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here is a little background.

Long ago major  airline carrier companies formed an alliance of rules. All pilots, flight attendants and mechanics are hired by all companies to the entry level position. It is not possible to move laterally or up when changing companies. A Captain that leaves American for Jetblue leaves a $200,000  job and starts as a new hire copilot for $20,000

As a result, employees are tied to the company. Period.

Safety and safety decisions cost money. Companies have a long history of reprimanding employees that make safety decisions that cost money, to include termination. Human nature what it is means pilots make decisions to keep their jobs and risk safety.

The only thing that has made Western, including the US, airlines as safe as they are are unions backing pilots that make articulated decisions on the side of safety and a regulatory environment mandating and prohibiting certain decisions and operating environments, both resulting in the safety statistics the traveling public enjoys today.

You take both of those away and we will go back to significant accident rates.

That is just the way it is.
View Quote


Yay for unions.
Link Posted: 5/26/2016 8:03:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lack of mobility and being tied to one company for life are good things not just for the employee but the public?  
 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here is a little background.

Long ago major  airline carrier companies formed an alliance of rules. All pilots, flight attendants and mechanics are hired by all companies to the entry level position. It is not possible to move laterally or up when changing companies. A Captain that leaves American for Jetblue leaves a $200,000  job and starts as a new hire copilot for $20,000

As a result, employees are tied to the company. Period.

Safety and safety decisions cost money. Companies have a long history of reprimanding employees that make safety decisions that cost money, to include termination. Human nature what it is means pilots make decisions to keep their jobs and risk safety.

The only thing that has made Western, including the US, airlines as safe as they are are unions backing pilots that make articulated decisions on the side of safety and a regulatory environment mandating and prohibiting certain decisions and operating environments, both resulting in the safety statistics the traveling public enjoys today.

You take both of those away and we will go back to significant accident rates.

That is just the way it is.
Lack of mobility and being tied to one company for life are good things not just for the employee but the public?  
 


Nope. Did not say that. Just said employees are tied to the company due to company policy industry wide. They will not  hire to anything but entry level.

and due to that, it gives companies leverage over employees, which has impacted safety historically by threatening jobs for safety decision because those decisions cost money.

The reason why companies will not hire laterally is largely due to training costs. They prevent training a new Captain on an airbus 320 and having him take his new $300,000 certification cost and going to a different company to get a better pay rate. There are also schedule stability advantages, but the biggest reason is training costs. And before someone says it is the unions that want no lateral moves in the industry, the industry was doing this long before there were unions.

Unions came about because companies where pressuring pilots to make non-safe decisions ( because money ) and threatening their jobs resulting in pilots choosing their jobs and resulting in fatal accidents.  If The same accident rate from the 1970s were applied to today, there would be a major airline fatal accident every day. Training, simulators, regulatory compliance and CRM is the difference.
Link Posted: 5/26/2016 8:14:42 AM EDT
[#12]
What's the difference between aer lingus flying to jfk and Norwegian?

Link Posted: 5/26/2016 8:19:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Blonde Vietnamese stewardesses? Like a screen door in a hurricane
Link Posted: 5/26/2016 8:26:41 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yay for unions.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here is a little background.

Long ago major  airline carrier companies formed an alliance of rules. All pilots, flight attendants and mechanics are hired by all companies to the entry level position. It is not possible to move laterally or up when changing companies. A Captain that leaves American for Jetblue leaves a $200,000  job and starts as a new hire copilot for $20,000

As a result, employees are tied to the company. Period.

Safety and safety decisions cost money. Companies have a long history of reprimanding employees that make safety decisions that cost money, to include termination. Human nature what it is means pilots make decisions to keep their jobs and risk safety.

The only thing that has made Western, including the US, airlines as safe as they are are unions backing pilots that make articulated decisions on the side of safety and a regulatory environment mandating and prohibiting certain decisions and operating environments, both resulting in the safety statistics the traveling public enjoys today.

You take both of those away and we will go back to significant accident rates.

That is just the way it is.


Yay for unions.


I am generally against unions, but as far as white collar unions go, ALPA is pretty damn good, imo.
Link Posted: 5/26/2016 6:48:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What's the difference between aer lingus flying to jfk and Norwegian?

View Quote


Third world pilots on Norwegian
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