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Posted: 5/19/2016 2:03:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think we can give this a try....you know, implement some Communism....kill off 30 or 40 million.... stand in bread beet and cabbage soup lines.. have a parade... then revolt... back to freedom....rinse, repeat. Human beings may be smart, but I doubt our intelligence I was with you up to the beet and cabbage soup lines. I hate beet and cabbage soup. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 2:03:48 PM EDT
[#2]
ost
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Posted: 5/19/2016 2:07:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I expect this will be met with full approval here. However, in my opinion it is a refutation of a caricature of communism - most people in GD still have McCarty-like ideas of what communism was like. Just as a minor example, USSR had IIRC four weeks of vacation for most workers - and Soviet vacations did NOT look like your portrayal. I'd estimate over half of your rebuttals are essentially straw man arguments. Good enough for propaganda, but not actually true. Shame, I liked your previous videos. I can't be bothered to write 10+ pages on the realities of Soviet life and the virtues of socialism, especially since this is GD and I would get dogpiled by people with Cold War era views. If you are particularly interested, we can chat on Skype or something. Are you here to espouse the many triumphs of communism and the wonderful contributions it made to... well... I guess... population reduction among certain groups? |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 2:10:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yesterday, I talked to two Bernie supporters of the familial relation sort. It was a sad conversation. In the end they just want some stuff that they don't have and happiness, which they don't have. Bizarre that they believe that a collection of other people running their lives could or even would ever give them either. I'm hoping our conversation made them look within a bit harder. I shared this vid with them and I hope they watch it at their leh-sure  |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 2:34:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I expect this will be met with full approval here. However, in my opinion it is a refutation of a caricature of communism - most people in GD still have McCarty-like ideas of what communism was like. Just as a minor example, USSR had IIRC four weeks of vacation for most workers - and Soviet vacations did NOT look like your portrayal. I'd estimate over half of your rebuttals are essentially straw man arguments. Good enough for propaganda, but not actually true. Shame, I liked your previous videos. I can't be bothered to write 10+ pages on the realities of Soviet life and the virtues of socialism, especially since this is GD and I would get dogpiled by people with Cold War era views. If you are particularly interested, we can chat on Skype or something. You lost your so called virtues when you murdered millions. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 2:35:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Steven:
I just wanted to let you know about the compliment I just heard somebody give you. My manager (in his 40s) said to me "Crowder's been on a roll with his videos lately!" I was kinda surprised he knew about you. He said a friend of his posts your videos on Facebook, and you're "exactly what we need: young, hip, with it, able to take the fight, not some old codger with 1 foot in the grave ... somebody who understands and can take the message to young people." He agrees with me that your videos are awesome and hilarious. He's not an ARFcommer. I see you gaining more popularity and expanding your message. You deserve to, and it's nice to see you grow beyond our shared home of ARFcom. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 2:44:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Great video and good points.
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Posted: 5/19/2016 2:56:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I expect this will be met with full approval here. However, in my opinion it is a refutation of a caricature of communism - most people in GD still have McCarty-like ideas of what communism was like. Just as a minor example, USSR had IIRC four weeks of vacation for most workers - and Soviet vacations did NOT look like your portrayal. I'd estimate over half of your rebuttals are essentially straw man arguments. Good enough for propaganda, but not actually true. Shame, I liked your previous videos. I can't be bothered to write 10+ pages on the realities of Soviet life and the virtues of socialism, especially since this is GD and I would get dogpiled by people with Cold War era views. If you are particularly interested, we can chat on Skype or something. caricature - a pictorial, written, or acted representation of a person, which exaggerates his characteristic traits for comic effect Show me the comical part of this list. I'll wait. 
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Posted: 5/19/2016 3:22:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're pissed off? I'm English and every damned American I meet has it secretly in the back of their mind that I am some sort of uber-villain, bad-guy in a red coat who is going to tell you all about how Karl Marx wasn't a bearded socialist twat in need of a good kicking, but a kindly old fart who had the answer to all our prayers, while trying to kill you with specialised medicine. Stop using English accents in Hollywood. Please!!!  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I couldn't do it. Sorry Crowder. It wasn't you. The Karl Marx video is just too fucking stupid to handle. You were spot on as usual. Eta: I'm sick and goddamned tired of people trying to artificially inflate the perceived intelligence of a video by having some asshole with an English accent narrate it. It's gonna take more than some rolled r's to pass that shit off as anything more than political diarrhea. You're pissed off? I'm English and every damned American I meet has it secretly in the back of their mind that I am some sort of uber-villain, bad-guy in a red coat who is going to tell you all about how Karl Marx wasn't a bearded socialist twat in need of a good kicking, but a kindly old fart who had the answer to all our prayers, while trying to kill you with specialised medicine. Stop using English accents in Hollywood. Please!!! So says the redcoat villain. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 3:24:57 PM EDT
[#10]
I pretty much agreed with you up until you got to how government is actually responsible for the societal expressions of corruption by big business.
I disagree. Capitalists use the government to control competition, and become the government by Proxy. Capitalism isn't the magical cure for human nature. It is just the best way to express it. there is no incorruptible man or institution. And the corrupt rarely self correct. 
Marxism has been the most effective (*late 19th century to current*) carrot used to get the idiots at the be bottom to rebel against the old ruling elite when they fail to self correct, to install the new ruling elite. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 3:25:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When limey's fight we don't do it on video..... it's usually outside the pub at chucking out time. The we all have a cuddle, call one another a rude name and go for chips and curry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I couldn't do it. Sorry Crowder. It wasn't you. The Karl Marx video is just too fucking stupid to handle. You were spot on as usual. Eta: I'm sick and goddamned tired of people trying to artificially inflate the perceived intelligence of a video by having some asshole with an English accent narrate it. It's gonna take more than some rolled r's to pass that shit off as anything more than political diarrhea. You're pissed off? I'm English and every damned American I meet has it secretly in the back of their mind that I am some sort of uber-villain, bad-guy in a red coat who is going to tell you all about how Karl Marx wasn't a bearded socialist twat in need of a good kicking, but a kindly old fart who had the answer to all our prayers, while trying to kill you with specialised medicine. Stop using English accents in Hollywood. Please!!! Maybe the Crowder rebuttal would have been even more effective if you had narrated it for him. Fight limeys with limeys.
When limey's fight we don't do it on video..... it's usually outside the pub at chucking out time. The we all have a cuddle, call one another a rude name and go for chips and curry. It's long been a dream of mine to witness first hand a white glove slap fight degrade into out and out umbrella fencing replete with top hats and monocles. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 3:26:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's long been a dream of mine to witness first hand a white glove slap fight degrade into out and out umbrella fencing replete with top hats and monocles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I couldn't do it. Sorry Crowder. It wasn't you. The Karl Marx video is just too fucking stupid to handle. You were spot on as usual. Eta: I'm sick and goddamned tired of people trying to artificially inflate the perceived intelligence of a video by having some asshole with an English accent narrate it. It's gonna take more than some rolled r's to pass that shit off as anything more than political diarrhea. You're pissed off? I'm English and every damned American I meet has it secretly in the back of their mind that I am some sort of uber-villain, bad-guy in a red coat who is going to tell you all about how Karl Marx wasn't a bearded socialist twat in need of a good kicking, but a kindly old fart who had the answer to all our prayers, while trying to kill you with specialised medicine. Stop using English accents in Hollywood. Please!!! Maybe the Crowder rebuttal would have been even more effective if you had narrated it for him. Fight limeys with limeys.
When limey's fight we don't do it on video..... it's usually outside the pub at chucking out time. The we all have a cuddle, call one another a rude name and go for chips and curry. It's long been a dream of mine to witness first hand a white glove slap fight degrade into out and out umbrella fencing replete with top hats and monocles.
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Posted: 5/19/2016 3:32:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Feast your eyes upon the horrors of Soviet Democide, y'all (pics below).
I don't expect to undo a lifetime of bias in a couple posts. Moreover, I don't care to. If you were really interested to study history from both sides, you'd already know the whole communism thing is a really complex story with a lot of positive and negative chapters. If you aren't interested, I don't think any amount of effort on my part will help. Plus, the history of worldwide communist movements really isn't my specialty - I just know enough about Russian/Soviet 20th century to understand that most things I see here are wrong, and by extension I assume the same is true of many other countries. To take an example, the table above claims "Soviet democide" was ~62 million victims. The real number of people executed for political crimes under Stalin is well-documented, it's something like 0.6-0.9 million (depending on how you count, e.g. whether to include Nazi collaborators and corruption cases). Various historians then go to tack on everyone who died from wars, famine, diseases, cancer, lightning strikes, spent time in prison, lost Party membership, became an alcoholic, had schizophrenia, suffered from erectile dysfunction, fell down the stairs, was no longer eligible for free parachute jump training, etc. etc., in the period from 1917 to 1990. Still, most estimates of "repression victims" are in the ballpark of 20 mil. (this is not _deaths_, this is pretty much everyone who suffered any sort of punishment under USSR over its entire history). The guy who came up with 65 million number was Solzhenitsyn, I think, because he worked in the 1950s with no sources available, and basically invented numbers based on wild rumor. And even he didn't claim it was deaths, but merely anyone who was wronged in some way. 
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Posted: 5/19/2016 3:37:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was in Southern California doing Navy stuff a few years back, and I stopped by the Stone brewery because... well, it really is fantastic food and beer. Highly recommend the soup. Anyhow, there's these two hipsters sitting at the end of the bar with a stack of books (I didn't catch the titles), and they're in their silly little beatnick uniforms. One of them wearing a no-shit Che beret. So I overhear a bit of the conversation and they're arguing over whether Marx of Engels was the greater genius. My reflexive rage at someone wearing headgear at a bar aside, I found myself very conflicted because I'm not a violent person at all, and yet here were these bad commies that desperately needed to become good commies. It's just really unfortunate that these people are out there, stealing my oxygen.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Marx wrote an enormous number of books and articles, sometime with his friend Friedrich Engels. "Also a prick."  I was in Southern California doing Navy stuff a few years back, and I stopped by the Stone brewery because... well, it really is fantastic food and beer. Highly recommend the soup. Anyhow, there's these two hipsters sitting at the end of the bar with a stack of books (I didn't catch the titles), and they're in their silly little beatnick uniforms. One of them wearing a no-shit Che beret. So I overhear a bit of the conversation and they're arguing over whether Marx of Engels was the greater genius. My reflexive rage at someone wearing headgear at a bar aside, I found myself very conflicted because I'm not a violent person at all, and yet here were these bad commies that desperately needed to become good commies. It's just really unfortunate that these people are out there, stealing my oxygen. Oxygen thieves are truly fortunate that killin' folks is not, generally speaking, legal. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:11:15 PM EDT
[#15]
I
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you here to espouse the many triumphs of communism and the wonderful contributions it made to... well... I guess... population reduction among certain groups? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I expect this will be met with full approval here. However, in my opinion it is a refutation of a caricature of communism - most people in GD still have McCarty-like ideas of what communism was like. Just as a minor example, USSR had IIRC four weeks of vacation for most workers - and Soviet vacations did NOT look like your portrayal. I'd estimate over half of your rebuttals are essentially straw man arguments. Good enough for propaganda, but not actually true. Shame, I liked your previous videos. I can't be bothered to write 10+ pages on the realities of Soviet life and the virtues of socialism, especially since this is GD and I would get dogpiled by people with Cold War era views. If you are particularly interested, we can chat on Skype or something. Are you here to espouse the many triumphs of communism and the wonderful contributions it made to... well... I guess... population reduction among certain groups? Funny that vacation comes up. Wife grew up in West Germany and vacationed wherever her parents wanted to go. Wife's friend grew up in East Germany and there were armed Russian guards & East Germans who made sure she couldn't leave the country without permission (which was never granted). It was an open-air prison. Period! Wife's father had several old Mercedes cars; he mostly drove a newer Japanese import. Wife's East German friend had to apply for permission to be allowed to buy ONE family car - and that permission took 12 to 15 years for approval! After a 15 year wait, they got "permission" to buy a Trabant - probably the worst fucking car ever built - and they could not even take it on vacation (see above). I could go on and on about experiences related to me by people who LIVED it. Wife's aunt is Polish; she told me all about the ration cards for ordinary staples like sugar, flour, etc. plus the hours long lines, and how sometimes you got got the front of the line and the state shop sold out (too bad for you); she told be about the out houses right up to the 1980s; the power-outages, the censorship, the corruption and rape (how communist party officials were never even investigated for crimes). I don't know you Tatzhit- but if you are defending life under Communism, you can take that shit and shove it. 
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:16:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Lol aww, ARFcom has it's very own pet commie. hire a handicap, theyre fun to watch.
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:17:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Feast your eyes upon the horrors of Soviet Democide, y'all (pics below). I don't expect to undo a lifetime of bias in a couple posts. Moreover, I don't care to. If you were really interested to study history from both sides, you'd already know the whole communism thing is a really complex story with a lot of positive and negative chapters. If you aren't interested, I don't think any amount of effort on my part will help. Plus, the history of worldwide communist movements really isn't my specialty - I just know enough about Russian/Soviet 20th century to understand that most things I see here are wrong, and by extension I assume the same is true of many other countries. To take an example, the table above claims "Soviet democide" was ~62 million victims. The real number of people executed for political crimes under Stalin is well-documented, it's something like 0.6-0.9 million (depending on how you count, e.g. whether to include Nazi collaborators and corruption cases). Various historians then go to tack on everyone who died from wars, famine, diseases, cancer, lightning strikes, spent time in prison, lost Party membership, became an alcoholic, had schizophrenia, suffered from erectile dysfunction, fell down the stairs, etc., in the period from 1917 to 1990. Still, most estimates of "repression victims" are in the ballpark of 20 mil. (this is not _deaths_, this is pretty much everyone who suffered any sort of punishment under USSR over its entire history). The guy who came up with 65 million number was Solzhenitsyn, I think, because he worked in the 1950s with no sources available, and basically invented numbers based on wild rumor. And even he didn't claim it was deaths, but merely anyone who was wronged in some way. https://wasatchecon.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/800px-population_of_russia.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Population_of_Ukraine.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Population_of_Latvia.PNG Now you're just a liar, rather than a wretched stooge for the party of mass murder. This is linked because the image is too large for the site format to work properly. https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF The number of people shot to death under the Soviets is known by their records to be 1,000,000 people just during the terror between 1937 and 1938. Nor did the historians ...go to tack on everyone who died from wars, famine, diseases, cancer, lightning strikes, spent time in prison, lost Party membership, became an alcoholic, had schizophrenia, suffered from erectile dysfunction, fell down the stairs, etc., in the period from 1917 to 1990. They read the numbers of people sentenced to labor/death camps and they compiled death tolls from things like the Ukrainian famine that was caused by Comrade Djughashvili and the person in my avatar. At least 10,000,000 people to starve to death. If you want to remove those deaths from the total, then you can explain to us how starvation is preferable to a firing squad. You also ignore the deaths caused by your other Marxist heroes in China, Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, etc. China kept up the slaughter in the 1960s. The Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution killed - directly - millions of people. You can't argue that government is innocent of death from famine when government caused the famine and made it worse. My favorite was the Hundred Flowers Campaign. Only a few hundred thousand people were imprisoned or executed for that one. In the 1970s, your heroes in Vietnam and Cambodia took up the call and murdered a few million more of their own. Cambodia executed at least 2,000,000 people-a third of its population at the time, and they're still digging up the mass graves. You can take a tour and see the piles of skeletons from the killings. Unlike you, they don't try to hide it. Of course, your heroes in North Korea are still at it today. If you love communism so much, go there. You might even survive the experience. They might even kidnap a Japanese woman for you to fuck. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:29:28 PM EDT
[#18]
I like it when people try to defend the indefensible. It's amusing. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:38:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I like it when people try to defend the indefensible. It's amusing. I'm disappointed that a site that instantly bans Holocaust deniers and neo-Nazis allows people to dance in the blood of the tens of millions of people murdered in the names of Marx and Engels. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:42:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now you're just a liar, rather than a wretched stooge for the party of mass murder. This is linked because the image is too large for the site format to work properly. https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now you're just a liar, rather than a wretched stooge for the party of mass murder. This is linked because the image is too large for the site format to work properly. https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF As I said, I'm not a specialist on worldwide democides. I can show that specific numbers are BS, but I won't bother studying for years to be able to show that ALL of them are - I'll just assume that someone so incompetent in Soviet history is probably equally incompetent when it comes to other countries. The number of people shot to death under the Soviets is known by their records to be 1,000,000 people just during the terror between 1937 and 1938. Lolnope. Official number is 681,692 executed, various conspiracy theorists claim it's higher because the inmate numbers aren't in sequence or some such (although none of them can explain why aren't there huge numbers of missing people, where all the bodies are buried, how did NKVD keep double books on a country-wide scale with zero evidence, etc). Either way, your claims on official numbers are totally off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge#Number_of_people_executed Nor did the historians ...go to tack on everyone who died from wars, famine, diseases, cancer, lightning strikes, spent time in prison, lost Party membership, became an alcoholic, had schizophrenia, suffered from erectile dysfunction, fell down the stairs, etc., in the period from 1917 to 1990.
They read the numbers of people sentenced to labor/death camps and they compiled death tolls from things like the Ukrainian famine that was caused by Comrade Djughashvili and the person in my avatar. At least 10,000,000 people to starve to death. If you want to remove those deaths from the total, then you can explain to us how starvation is preferable to a firing squad. Yeah, about that... 
Explain how you can starve 10 mil people in a region of 40 mil, and have the population consistently going up (graph is from UA gov website). In fact, UA gov went to compile records of every last person who died 1932-1933. The so-called "Holodomor Memory Book". IIRC they got something like 0.8 mil. Not to mention USSR didn't "engineer" the famine. That's like saying US gov "engineered" the Dust Bowl. Soviets mishandled the agricultural planning and their hunger relief efforts weren't always effective. You also ignore the deaths caused by your other Marxist heroes in China, Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, etc. China kept up the slaughter in the 1960s. The Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution killed - directly - millions of people. You can't argue that government is innocent of death from famine when government caused the famine and made it worse. My favorite was the Hundred Flowers Campaign. Only a few hundred thousand people were imprisoned or executed for that one.
In the 1970s, your heroes in Vietnam and Cambodia took up the call and murdered a few million more of their own. Cambodia executed at least 2,000,000 people-a third of its population at the time, and they're still digging up the mass graves. You can take a tour and see the piles of skeletons from the killings. Unlike you, they don't try to hide it. Of course, your heroes in North Korea are still at it today. If you love communism so much, go there. You might even survive the experience. They might even kidnap a Japanese woman for you to fuck. In case you didn't notice, I'm not saying communism is great and all. I'm just saying most people here believe wild tales about it. Whether its tens of millions or simply millions, it's still a huge number of people. But if I used same arguments as you, I'd take South Korea, Indonesia or Vietnam, multiply the victims of their civil wars on both sides 10x, and blame it all on "violence inherent in the capitalist system". PS. Also, how's the failing socialist Chinese system? IIRC they just overtook USA by GDP-PPP, yes? Care to explain how a supposedly far less efficient system produces far higher economic growth? 
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:48:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As I said, I'm not a specialist on worldwide democides. I can show that specific numbers are BS, but I won't bother studying for years to be able to show that ALL of them are - I'll just assume that someone so incompetent in Soviet history is probably equally incompetent when it comes to other countries. Lolnope. Official number is 681,692 executed, various conspiracy theorists claim it's higher because the inmate numbers aren't in sequence or some such (although none of them can explain why aren't there huge numbers of missing people, where all the bodies are buried, how did NKVD keep double books on a country-wide scale with zero evidence, etc). Either way, your claims on official numbers are totally off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge#Number_of_people_executed Yeah, about that... http://database.ukrcensus.gov.ua/PXWEB2007/eng/img/hist2010_1.gif Explain how you can starve 10 mil people in a region of 40 mil, and have the population consistently going up (graph is from UA gov website). In fact, UA gov went to compile records of every last person who died 1932-1933. The so-called "Holodomor Memory Book". IIRC they got something like 0.8 mil. Not to mention USSR didn't "engineer" the famine. That's like saying US gov "engineered" the Dust Bowl. Soviets mishandled the agricultural planning and their hunger relief efforts weren't always effective. In case you didn't notice, I'm not saying communism is great and all. I'm just saying most people here believe wild tales about it. Whether its tens of millions or simply millions, it's still a huge number of people. But if I used same arguments as you, I'd take South Korea, Indonesia or Vietnam, multiply the victims of their civil wars on both sides 10x, and blame it all on "violence inherent in the capitalist system". PS. Also, how's the failing socialist Chinese system? IIRC they just overtook USA by GDP-PPP, yes? Care to explain how a supposedly far less efficient system produces far higher economic growth? http://statisticstimes.com/economy/image/world/us-china-gdp.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Now you're just a liar, rather than a wretched stooge for the party of mass murder. This is linked because the image is too large for the site format to work properly. https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF As I said, I'm not a specialist on worldwide democides. I can show that specific numbers are BS, but I won't bother studying for years to be able to show that ALL of them are - I'll just assume that someone so incompetent in Soviet history is probably equally incompetent when it comes to other countries. The number of people shot to death under the Soviets is known by their records to be 1,000,000 people just during the terror between 1937 and 1938. Lolnope. Official number is 681,692 executed, various conspiracy theorists claim it's higher because the inmate numbers aren't in sequence or some such (although none of them can explain why aren't there huge numbers of missing people, where all the bodies are buried, how did NKVD keep double books on a country-wide scale with zero evidence, etc). Either way, your claims on official numbers are totally off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge#Number_of_people_executed Nor did the historians ...go to tack on everyone who died from wars, famine, diseases, cancer, lightning strikes, spent time in prison, lost Party membership, became an alcoholic, had schizophrenia, suffered from erectile dysfunction, fell down the stairs, etc., in the period from 1917 to 1990.
They read the numbers of people sentenced to labor/death camps and they compiled death tolls from things like the Ukrainian famine that was caused by Comrade Djughashvili and the person in my avatar. At least 10,000,000 people to starve to death. If you want to remove those deaths from the total, then you can explain to us how starvation is preferable to a firing squad. Yeah, about that... http://database.ukrcensus.gov.ua/PXWEB2007/eng/img/hist2010_1.gif Explain how you can starve 10 mil people in a region of 40 mil, and have the population consistently going up (graph is from UA gov website). In fact, UA gov went to compile records of every last person who died 1932-1933. The so-called "Holodomor Memory Book". IIRC they got something like 0.8 mil. Not to mention USSR didn't "engineer" the famine. That's like saying US gov "engineered" the Dust Bowl. Soviets mishandled the agricultural planning and their hunger relief efforts weren't always effective. You also ignore the deaths caused by your other Marxist heroes in China, Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, etc. China kept up the slaughter in the 1960s. The Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution killed - directly - millions of people. You can't argue that government is innocent of death from famine when government caused the famine and made it worse. My favorite was the Hundred Flowers Campaign. Only a few hundred thousand people were imprisoned or executed for that one.
In the 1970s, your heroes in Vietnam and Cambodia took up the call and murdered a few million more of their own. Cambodia executed at least 2,000,000 people-a third of its population at the time, and they're still digging up the mass graves. You can take a tour and see the piles of skeletons from the killings. Unlike you, they don't try to hide it. Of course, your heroes in North Korea are still at it today. If you love communism so much, go there. You might even survive the experience. They might even kidnap a Japanese woman for you to fuck. In case you didn't notice, I'm not saying communism is great and all. I'm just saying most people here believe wild tales about it. Whether its tens of millions or simply millions, it's still a huge number of people. But if I used same arguments as you, I'd take South Korea, Indonesia or Vietnam, multiply the victims of their civil wars on both sides 10x, and blame it all on "violence inherent in the capitalist system". PS. Also, how's the failing socialist Chinese system? IIRC they just overtook USA by GDP-PPP, yes? Care to explain how a supposedly far less efficient system produces far higher economic growth? http://statisticstimes.com/economy/image/world/us-china-gdp.jpg Your numbers on Chinese GDP are a fucking joke. Fake. False. Made up. NO ONE believes the numbers out of Bejing - not even the American left. We never have: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/business/global/chinese-data-said-to-be-manipulated-understating-its-slowdown.html |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:50:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Ooh, I love a good jimmy rustlin'
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:51:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Lol. This is turning into some fun.
Someone tell the commie that when you stop preventing people from leaving a country, the population goes down... because they... gasp! Leave! Likewise, when the quality of live rises and individual households no longer have to scrape for a living or risk starvation, the birth rate goes down. (Don't need so many kids if they don't _die_ on you.) |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:56:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your numbers on Chinese GDP are a fucking joke. Fake. False. Made up. NO ONE believes the numbers out of Bejing - not even the American left. We never have: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/business/global/chinese-data-said-to-be-manipulated-understating-its-slowdown.html What you’re saying is possible. Most economic indicators are crap anyway, I’m sure there are plenty of Chinese or Russian economists who would claim half of USA’s GDP is stock trading or something, essentially smoke&mirrors. However, the article you linked merely states some smaller electricity producers may be slightly fudging electricity consumption numbers, which they would have to rectify later. It also mentions in passing that Chinese economists tend to under-report growth in boom years and over-report in crisis years. I’m by no means an expert on Chinese economy or, especially, Chinese statisticians – but compared to the drivel I’ve seen in “The Economist” about countries I study, that sounds like a gold standard of reporting. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:56:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Steven: I just wanted to let you know about the compliment I just heard somebody give you. My manager (in his 40s) said to me "Crowder's been on a roll with his videos lately!" I was kinda surprised he knew about you. He said a friend of his posts your videos on Facebook, and you're "exactly what we need: young, hip, with it, able to take the fight, not some old codger with 1 foot in the grave ... somebody who understands and can take the message to young people." He agrees with me that your videos are awesome and hilarious. He's not an ARFcommer. I see you gaining more popularity and expanding your message. You deserve to, and it's nice to see you grow beyond our shared home of ARFcom. ... see what he does. Then thank him for me. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:59:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Another great job Steven!
Funny how commie apologists talk so calmly about how the murderers didn't quite kill as many people as reported. As if they would have some how been spared if they were there at the time. I wish they would all volunteer to go live in Venezuela and report back on what a great time they are having. I have a very good friend who lives in Rome. His grandfather was a strident communist after living through WW2. He saved and saved to take a vacation trip to USSR with his wife in the early 60's. Upon his return to Italy he gathered the family together and told them of how bad it was and then ceremoniously tore up his communist party card. He became an active anti communist and remained so until his death. I have another friend who is an officer in the Cambodian national police. He was living in Phnom Penh with his mother when Pol Pot emptied the city and removed everyone to the country side. He is also a strident anti communist. Seeing is believing I suppose. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:59:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol. This is turning into some fun. Someone tell the commie that when you stop preventing people from leaving a country, the population goes down... because they... gasp! Leave! Likewise, when the quality of live rises and individual households no longer have to scrape for a living or risk starvation, the birth rate goes down. (Don't need so many kids if they don't _die_ on you.) I could retort that evil capitalists destroying the glorious communist system caused everyone to flee the ruined country. But I won't, cause neither of us would be able to prove things one way or the other. Also, LOL at the infant mortality comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Union#Life_expectancy_and_infant_mortality |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:01:45 PM EDT
[#28]
tag
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:03:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another great job Steven! Funny how commie apologists talk so calmly about how the murderers didn't quite kill as many people as reported. As if they would have some how been spared if they were there at the time. Say I tell you 10 million black men were lynched in the US in the 19th-20th centuries. You'd obviously tell me I'm an idiot. I would then accuse you of endorsing lynchings and being a racist. Got it? EDIT: Link related - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:12:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Man I hate communists.
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:14:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain how you can starve 10 mil people in a region of 40 mil, and have the population consistently going up (graph is from UA gov website). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain how you can starve 10 mil people in a region of 40 mil, and have the population consistently going up (graph is from UA gov website). Easy. You get assholes to lie and say that it never happened. Quoted:
Not to mention USSR didn't "engineer" the famine. That's like saying US gov "engineered" the Dust Bowl. Soviets mishandled the agricultural planning and their hunger relief efforts weren't always effective. When you confiscate the food and destroy the farms, you engineered the famine. Otherwise I could lock you in an empty room and claim your death was suicide rather than starvation. Quoted:
But if I used same arguments as you, I'd take South Korea, Indonesia or Vietnam, multiply the victims of their civil wars on both sides 10x, and blame it all on "violence inherent in the capitalist system". Use them all you want. The link here has them: https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF They don't say what you would like them to say. I'll just use the high estimates of communist government massacres, rather than multiply them by ten. You're now up to 259,000,000.
Quoted:
PS. Also, how's the failing socialist Chinese system? IIRC they just overtook USA by GDP-PPP, yes? Care to explain how a supposedly far less efficient system produces far higher economic growth? http://statisticstimes.com/economy/image/world/us-china-gdp.jpg I don't know how you think that's funny. The Chinese turned to capitalist models in the 1970s after Mao committed his last, great clusterfuck. They knew how badly he had damaged their economy. Even with four times the population of the United States and a population whose slave labor wages and working conditions forced them to build barriers over the sidewalks so that the pedestrians wouldn't get hurt by the worker suicides, China's GDP only overtook ours in 2014. That's with a clown act president here and that's only if I accept that the Chinese government is an honest source for information about the state of the Chinese economy. I don't accept that. Neither do The Daily Beast and George Soros. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/11/how-china-could-crash-the-global-economy.html For the record, those are two of the farthest left sources in this country, short of our own communist party. Quoted:
Say I tell you 10 million black men were lynched in the US in the 19th-20th centuries. You'd obviously tell me I'm an idiot. I would then accuse you of endorsing lynchings and being a racist. Got it? EDIT: Link related - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes You can tell us that all you want, although the acknowledged number is somewhere around 10,000, I think. Then you can tell us how many black people lived in the U.S.S.R. or any of the other socialist/communist murder regimes of the past century. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:25:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Never thought I'd see someone openly, defiantly defend the USSR and the horrors of its democide, but here we are in this thread witnessing it.
Jesus. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:29:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny that vacation comes up. Wife grew up in West Germany and vacationed wherever her parents wanted to go. Wife's friend grew up in East Germany and there were armed Russian guards & East Germans who made sure she couldn't leave the country without permission (which was never granted). It was an open-air prison. Period! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny that vacation comes up. Wife grew up in West Germany and vacationed wherever her parents wanted to go. Wife's friend grew up in East Germany and there were armed Russian guards & East Germans who made sure she couldn't leave the country without permission (which was never granted). It was an open-air prison. Period! Yeah, it's almost like all those other borders between countries in an armed standoff. North/South Korea, North/South Vietnam, China/Taiwan... Funny how that works. And that "permission" is called a visa. Warsaw pact were stingy with them, but nothing like the Norks, for example. Wife's father had several old Mercedes cars; he mostly drove a newer Japanese import.
Wife's East German friend had to apply for permission to be allowed to buy ONE family car - and that permission took 12 to 15 years for approval! After a 15 year wait, they got "permission" to buy a Trabant - probably the worst fucking car ever built - and they could not even take it on vacation (see above). As far as I understand the system of the time, certain goods were designated "necessities" and heavily subsidized (food, textbooks, utilities, etc.). Certain goods were designated "luxuries" and hugely overpriced to pay for the first group (cars, alcohol, electronics). The end result was that no one went without food, education, or housing, but many things were much harder to find than the West. Incidentally, West Germans coming to the East in huge numbers to buy up all the cheap stuff was one of the biggest reasons for the border. Wife's aunt is Polish; she told me all about the ration cards for ordinary staples like sugar, flour, etc. plus the hours long lines, and how sometimes you got got the front of the line and the state shop sold out (too bad for you); she told be about the out houses right up to the 1980s; the power-outages, the censorship, the corruption and rape (how communist party officials were never even investigated for crimes).
I don't know you Tatzhit- but if you are defending life under Communism, you can take that shit and shove it. Compare to a war-torn capitalist country in a similar standoff against a much larger enemy (say, Imperial Japan 1940s or Nationalist China slightly before). Not quite the same contrast, eh? I'm not saying the Communist system is superior - we all know that the Reds lost on their last big attempt (but heh, democracies collapsed many times in history, too). But the understanding of the Soviet system here in GD is how I imagine Norks understand capitalism. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:32:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When limey's fight we don't do it on video..... it's usually outside the pub at chucking out time. The we all have a cuddle, call one another a rude name and go for chips and curry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I couldn't do it. Sorry Crowder. It wasn't you. The Karl Marx video is just too fucking stupid to handle. You were spot on as usual. Eta: I'm sick and goddamned tired of people trying to artificially inflate the perceived intelligence of a video by having some asshole with an English accent narrate it. It's gonna take more than some rolled r's to pass that shit off as anything more than political diarrhea. You're pissed off? I'm English and every damned American I meet has it secretly in the back of their mind that I am some sort of uber-villain, bad-guy in a red coat who is going to tell you all about how Karl Marx wasn't a bearded socialist twat in need of a good kicking, but a kindly old fart who had the answer to all our prayers, while trying to kill you with specialised medicine. Stop using English accents in Hollywood. Please!!! Maybe the Crowder rebuttal would have been even more effective if you had narrated it for him. Fight limeys with limeys.
When limey's fight we don't do it on video..... it's usually outside the pub at chucking out time. The we all have a cuddle, call one another a rude name and go for chips and curry. That sounds awfully elaborate. British people are strange. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:39:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never thought I'd see someone openly, defiantly defend the USSR and the horrors of its democide, but here we are in this thread witnessing it. Jesus. Thank you for changing that. The thought of his asshole and any part of my body, even my foot, was discomfiting. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:40:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never thought I'd see someone openly, defiantly defend the USSR and the horrors of its democide, but here we are in this thread witnessing it. Jesus. Kinda surprising. Is it against the COC to hope someday he comes to NOLA and meets my friend who grew up in the USSR and starts talking that way? |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:43:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kinda surprising. Is it against the COC to hope someday he comes to NOLA and meets my friend who grew up in the USSR and starts talking that way? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Never thought I'd see someone openly, defiantly defend the USSR and the horrors of its democide, but here we are in this thread witnessing it. Jesus. Kinda surprising. Is it against the COC to hope someday he comes to NOLA and meets my friend who grew up in the USSR and starts talking that way? I have a friend from Poland who plans to vote for Hillary and he'd tear the guy apart, maybe even physically. He was also a union glazier before he started his own company. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:45:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I expect this will be met with full approval here. However, in my opinion it is a refutation of a caricature of communism - most people in GD still have McCarty-like ideas of what communism was like. Just as a minor example, USSR had IIRC four weeks of vacation for most workers - and Soviet vacations did NOT look like your portrayal. I'd estimate over half of your rebuttals are essentially straw man arguments. Good enough for propaganda, but not actually true. Shame, I liked your previous videos. I can't be bothered to write 10+ pages on the realities of Soviet life and the virtues of socialism, especially since this is GD and I would get dogpiled by people with Cold War era views. If you are particularly interested, we can chat on Skype or something. Do you think Marx was right or wrong? |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:48:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Great video Crowder..!!! |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:53:04 PM EDT
[#40]
That was really good.
Never stop Steven. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:54:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think we can give this a try....you know, implement some Communism....kill off 30 or 40 million.... stand in bread lines.. have a parade... then revolt... back to freedom....rinse, repeat. Human beings may be smart, but I doubt our intelligence It is "collective" intelligence that worries me. Crowds & mobs can do some seriously stupid shit.... like burn your own neighborhood. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 6:09:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Who decides who works and those that are "free"?
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Posted: 5/19/2016 6:10:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we can give this a try....you know, implement some Communism....kill off 30 or 40 million.... stand in bread lines.. have a parade... then revolt... back to freedom....rinse, repeat. Human beings may be smart, but I doubt our intelligence A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. That's why communism is all about the collective. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 6:17:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who decides who works and those that are "free"? The Party leadership of course. ETA: Or me. I'm starting a write-in campaign for POTUS. My campaign promises are that I will abolish elections and make myself supreme ruler for life, establish a dynasty to pass power down to my cats once I die, and I shall make a solemn oath to probably not kill as many people as communism, unless the whim strikes me to do so. I will also institute a law whereby professed communists, or defenders of same, may be punched up to three times per day by any non-communist without legal consequences, so long as no more than 10 non-commies punch any one particular pinko, meaning that no soulless Red may receive more than 30 punches per day. There will be no restrictions on location, but it should be noted that any kick to the nuts/genital area will count as 3 punches. I shall be a relatively humane despot. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 6:23:27 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
>Quoted: Not to mention USSR didn't "engineer" the famine. That's like saying US gov "engineered" the Dust Bowl. Soviets mishandled the > agricultural planning and their hunger relief efforts weren't always effective. When you confiscate the food and destroy the farms, you engineered the famine. Otherwise I could lock you in an empty room and claim your death was suicide rather than starvation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
>Quoted: Not to mention USSR didn't "engineer" the famine. That's like saying US gov "engineered" the Dust Bowl. Soviets mishandled the > agricultural planning and their hunger relief efforts weren't always effective. When you confiscate the food and destroy the farms, you engineered the famine. Otherwise I could lock you in an empty room and claim your death was suicide rather than starvation. FYI, similar famines were happening every few years in Russia before the Communists, because the grain was sold in fairly constant volumes year after year, whereas they'd occasionally get poor harvests and come up short by the winter. It's just that the communists learned to plan for these things and put a stop to them for good after the 1932-33 debacle. BTW, I'm not saying communism was the only answer there - getting the peasants out of the middle ages using free market methods would have had the same end result. Maybe with fewer people starving (that's not certain, tho). Use them all you want. The link here has them: https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF They don't say what you would like them to say. I'll just use the high estimates of communist government massacres, rather than multiply them by ten. You're now up to 259,000,000. As I said, the estimates given there for "Soviet democide" are pure BS. I explained why they're BS. I don't know about the other countries, but I assume those estimates are just as bad. I don't know how you think that's funny. The Chinese turned to capitalist models in the 1970s after Mao committed his last, great clusterfuck. They knew how badly he had damaged their economy. Even with four times the population of the United States and a population whose slave labor wages and working conditions forced them to build barriers over the sidewalks so that the pedestrians wouldn't get hurt by the worker suicides, China's GDP only overtook ours in 2014. That's with a clown act president here and that's only if I accept that the Chinese government is an honest source for information about the state of the Chinese economy.
I don't accept that. Neither do The Daily Beast and George Soros. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/11/how-china-could-crash-the-global-economy.html For the record, those are two of the farthest left sources in this country, short of our own communist party. Comparing USA with a country where a lot of peasants had to walk around naked due to lack of clothes as recently as 1940s (due to glorious development under capitalism and free market, BTW) isn't really very scientific. A better measure are similarly large and primitive countries with more capitalist regimes, such as India or Egypt. Which - surprise - failed to have the same GDP growth. Now, I'm not saying China's perfect or that their economy is stable. I simply don't understand it well enough (although that Daily Beast article implies that no one really does). I was simply implying that the common GD wisdom of "socialist systems can never be successful in any way" isn't nearly as universal as many like to think. Quoted: Say I tell you 10 million black men were lynched in the US in the 19th-20th centuries. You'd obviously tell me I'm an idiot. I would then accuse you of endorsing lynchings and being a racist. Got it? EDIT: Link related - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes You can tell us that all you want, although the acknowledged number is somewhere around 10,000, I think. Then you can tell us how many black people lived in the U.S.S.R. or any of the other socialist/communist murder regimes of the past century. I was simply saying that if you disagree with the estimate of persons lynched, doesn't mean you approve of lynchings or condone slavery. Ditto for socialism/communism. Makes sense? |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 6:30:12 PM EDT
[#46]
Occupy Main Street
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Posted: 5/19/2016 6:34:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you think Marx was right or wrong? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I expect this will be met with full approval here. However, in my opinion it is a refutation of a caricature of communism - most people in GD still have McCarty-like ideas of what communism was like. Just as a minor example, USSR had IIRC four weeks of vacation for most workers - and Soviet vacations did NOT look like your portrayal. I'd estimate over half of your rebuttals are essentially straw man arguments. Good enough for propaganda, but not actually true. Shame, I liked your previous videos. I can't be bothered to write 10+ pages on the realities of Soviet life and the virtues of socialism, especially since this is GD and I would get dogpiled by people with Cold War era views. If you are particularly interested, we can chat on Skype or something. Do you think Marx was right or wrong? About what? Overall, he's certainly almost entirely wrong now, because there's no longer much "proletariat" around. I think his theories were pretty wrong back in the day, too. However, it's pointless to discuss the philosophic theory itself - that amounts to both sides building cloud castles. What can be discussed is its practical application. And my original point was that video in the OP gets a lot of the historical facts about socialist systems wrong. That's fairly easy to prove, technically - as I said, look up USSR vacation system. The problem lies in huge bias caused by the Cold War, both in reporting and in people's attitude. Americans trying to understand USSR by reading Western sources are like Norks trying to learn about the life in USA by reading books written by other Norks. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 6:36:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Party leadership of course. ETA: Or me. I'm starting a write-in campaign for POTUS. My campaign promises are that I will abolish elections and make myself supreme ruler for life, establish a dynasty to pass power down to my cats once I die, and I shall make a solemn oath to probably not kill as many people as communism, unless the whim strikes me to do so. I will also institute a law whereby professed communists, or defenders of same, may be punched up to three times per day by any non-communist without legal consequences, so long as no more than 10 non-commies punch any one particular pinko, meaning that no soulless Red may receive more than 30 punches per day. There will be no restrictions on location, but it should be noted that any kick to the nuts/genital area will count as 3 punches. I shall be a relatively humane despot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who decides who works and those that are "free"? The Party leadership of course. ETA: Or me. I'm starting a write-in campaign for POTUS. My campaign promises are that I will abolish elections and make myself supreme ruler for life, establish a dynasty to pass power down to my cats once I die, and I shall make a solemn oath to probably not kill as many people as communism, unless the whim strikes me to do so. I will also institute a law whereby professed communists, or defenders of same, may be punched up to three times per day by any non-communist without legal consequences, so long as no more than 10 non-commies punch any one particular pinko, meaning that no soulless Red may receive more than 30 punches per day. There will be no restrictions on location, but it should be noted that any kick to the nuts/genital area will count as 3 punches. I shall be a relatively humane despot. Read up on this guy, I believe he is the gold standard all despots should strive to follow: http://www.badassoftheweek.com/niyazov.html |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 6:41:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
The fact that a pro-Karl Marx video went viral in 2016 is sad. Thanks, Bernie voters! So I just had to debunk the bulls***. You're welcome.  http://youtu.be/jFxWXbdqGIg
Fantastic video with one minor exception. While the manner in which it was done is still not one which embraces freedom, justice, or happiness, the Soviet Union was "at the forefront of giant leaps in technology or innovation." Timeline of the Space Race I don't really think that Marx would have approved of the Soviet Union, but I also tend to consider the Soviet Union not to be a good example of the dangers of communism, but rather socialism/totalitarianism. The difference being that communism is the great utopian anarchy which would be created if we all just got along and shared  , while socialism/totalitarianism is the great monolithic power beyond oversight or restraint which forces a nation to bend to the will of its leader(s).
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Posted: 5/19/2016 6:42:49 PM EDT
[#50]
I'm shocked the original Marx video hasn't popped up on my facebook timeline. If it does though, your video will be posted right under it.
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