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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:11:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wasn't there. I dare say, neither was anybody on this thread. The truth is probably out there. I, for one, have no right to pass judgement either way. Given the GD track record, neither do most here. There's some pretty impressive resume's posting in this thread that have the experience and knowledge to comment on this subject. I'm not one of them, but your blanket post is wrong. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:12:11 PM EDT
[#2]
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If I cared for a response I would have posed it as a question . Thanks for playing . Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh my God a military guy lied . What the fuck else is new . Question marks apparently. If I cared for a response I would have posed it as a question . Thanks for playing . Clearly you do care seeing as how you came in here and posted and responded to me. So are you just trolling or are you a retread? |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:12:48 PM EDT
[#3]
I'll at least give him the benefit of the doubt that one's honest perception of events is often not accurate. If you were getting shot at by 10 guys I can see how you might think you were getting shot at by a hundred. With only 4 guys that fight could be over very quickly.
Story has always seemed a bit off but none of us really know. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:14:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll at least give him the benefit of the doubt that one's honest perception of events is often not accurate. If you were getting shot at by 10 guys I can see how you might think you were getting shot at by a hundred. With only 4 guys that fight could be over very quickly. Story has always seemed a bit off but none of us really know. a lot of people really know...everyone wants to believe otherwise though. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:14:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Tagged for after reading.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:14:32 PM EDT
[#6]
The story, before the book and the movie, was that the team got wiped out by 8-12 Taliban. You would also hear that the NSW guys in country all thought Marcus's version of the story was bullshit. You wonder how the story would have been told if the chopper hadn't gone down.
Whatever the truth is, the Navy wanted good PR, and the Navy got good PR, and the number of enemy fighters ended up in the realm of the absurd. I don't know why this keeps coming up. The Army had a similar mission where most of an ODA got shot up trying to do a poorly planned cliff assault. Everyone got a big medal. The lied about Pat Tillmann... etc, etc. Yes, I don't believe anything Luttrell wrote, but I put the blame on Big Navy. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:19:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Charlie Sheen and Michael Biehns version of what Navy Seals do seemed less like bullshit then what Luttrell was saying..
Team got caught off guard, under equipped and got balled up. End if story |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:22:24 PM EDT
[#8]
So for the guys in the know/know guys on the recovery, what is the consensus on the 'goat herder' crap? Also fake?
The SEALs were walking along, compromised from the high ground by 12 ACM, shot up in 15 seconds, Luttrell somehow escapes while others are KIA? If so, and the firefight lasted only a matter of seconds, how was QRF called by the sat. phone? Is that what the word is? I would appreciate an IM if you do not want to respond. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:25:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So for the guys in the know/know guys on the recovery, what is the consensus on the 'goat herder' crap? Also fake? The SEALs were walking along, compromised from the high ground by 12 ACM, shot up in 15 seconds, Luttrell somehow escapes while others are KIA? If so, and the firefight lasted only a matter of seconds, how was QRF called by the sat. phone? Is that what the word is? I would appreciate an IM if you do not want to respond. They were probably up there with at least two guys sleeping at their OP then got ass raped while Marcus's fat ass woke up and rolled down that mountain He is friends with Glenn Beck what else do you need to know LOL |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:26:23 PM EDT
[#10]
He was like, ‘Marcus, man, you gotta help me! I need help, Marcus!’ It got so intense that I actually put my weapon down and covered my ears. I believe that part of the story. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:27:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And from what I understand (and was touched on in that article), he and others that helped out the US mil over there had a lot of trouble getting into the US, too, even if they were in danger.  I'm not pro immigration in the least, but it seems like we should have let those people and their families here if theyre in danger for helping us out. Maybe theres more to the story about them not being able to get in.. but I kind of doubt it.No, the Newsweek article was accurate. No one screening our Iraqi & Afghan allies for resettlement wants to have their name on a paper of someone who turns out to be a terrorist. My buddy worked for us in Iraq from 2003-2011, and had to wait for his visa for @ least a year from when he applied. He's got page after page of recommendations for resettlement from every unit he worked for. The situation is probably worse in Afghanistan b/c of the lack of linguists to translate the background investigations of the linguists who've been working for us since 2001 and want to get the hell out - to the extent that there was a rumor that linguists applications were being deliberately slowed - IOT maintain a large enough pool of linguists to continue operations. Someone like Gulab is @ the bottom of the barrel as far as his application goes. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:28:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always questioned the whole "moral conundrum of do we kill the goat ranchers or not.. we had to take a vote." You are on a reconnaissance mission and you don't have a solid SOP to deal with contact? If you are in that line of work, and you tell me that's seriously the first time you had that conversation and as a team determined what you'd do about it, I'm calling BS. That's all I'm sayin. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:30:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So for the guys in the know/know guys on the recovery, what is the consensus on the 'goat herder' crap? Also fake? The SEALs were walking along, compromised from the high ground by 12 ACM, shot up in 15 seconds, Luttrell somehow escapes while others are KIA? If so, and the firefight lasted only a matter of seconds, how was QRF called by the sat. phone? Is that what the word is? I would appreciate an IM if you do not want to respond. No one knows because they didn't have good comms. A call went out for QRF. A couple of the NSW dudes on the mission may have already been dead. No good QRF plan was really ready because of where they were, and because, Navy. A bird goes out, a bird goes down. More chaos ensues. At some point Marcus comes strolling out of the mountains with a story to tell, and almost two dozen NSW guys have died. One of the guys who was part of the teams has a great writeup on the Internet covering his viewpoint of the mission. It seems honest and realistic, but doesn't include any more detail than the above. I know a few Marines who were there in the same AO. They say the chopper going down fucked with everybody's plans because suddenly all air was getting grounded because they were worried about the ground to air threat. It sounds like the Navy was legitimately waiting on Marine Air, which wasn't willing to fly. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:30:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll at least give him the benefit of the doubt that one's honest perception of events is often not accurate. If you were getting shot at by 10 guys I can see how you might think you were getting shot at by a hundred. With only 4 guys that fight could be over very quickly. Story has always seemed a bit off but none of us really know. If you can't tell if you're in a fight with 10 or a 100, you aren't very high speed. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:30:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, the Newsweek article was accurate. No one screening our Iraqi & Afghan allies for resettlement wants to have their name on a paper of someone who turns out to be a terrorist. My buddy worked for us in Iraq from 2003-2011, and had to wait for his visa for @ least a year from when he applied. He's got page after page of recommendations for resettlement from every unit he worked for. The situation is probably worse in Afghanistan b/c of the lack of linguists to translate the background investigations of the linguists who've been working for us since 2001 and want to get the hell out - to the extent that there was a rumor that linguists applications were being deliberately slowed - IOT maintain a large enough pool of linguists to continue operations. Someone like Gulab is @ the bottom of the barrel as far as his application goes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And from what I understand (and was touched on in that article), he and others that helped out the US mil over there had a lot of trouble getting into the US, too, even if they were in danger. I'm not pro immigration in the least, but it seems like we should have let those people and their families here if theyre in danger for helping us out. Maybe theres more to the story about them not being able to get in.. but I kind of doubt it.No, the Newsweek article was accurate. No one screening our Iraqi & Afghan allies for resettlement wants to have their name on a paper of someone who turns out to be a terrorist. My buddy worked for us in Iraq from 2003-2011, and had to wait for his visa for @ least a year from when he applied. He's got page after page of recommendations for resettlement from every unit he worked for. The situation is probably worse in Afghanistan b/c of the lack of linguists to translate the background investigations of the linguists who've been working for us since 2001 and want to get the hell out - to the extent that there was a rumor that linguists applications were being deliberately slowed - IOT maintain a large enough pool of linguists to continue operations. Someone like Gulab is @ the bottom of the barrel as far as his application goes. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:32:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can't tell if you're in a fight with 10 or a 100, you aren't very high speed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'll at least give him the benefit of the doubt that one's honest perception of events is often not accurate. If you were getting shot at by 10 guys I can see how you might think you were getting shot at by a hundred. With only 4 guys that fight could be over very quickly. Story has always seemed a bit off but none of us really know. If you can't tell if you're in a fight with 10 or a 100, you aren't very high speed. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:48:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always questioned the whole "moral conundrum of do we kill the goat ranchers or not.. we had to take a vote." You are on a reconnaissance mission and you don't have a solid SOP to deal with contact? I read an article piecing together different sources and it really seemed like the operation wasn't planned very well and advice from others that had been working in that general area was ignored. It didn't paint a good picture at all. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:56:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe they should spend less time assaulting civilians while drunk and work on basic soldier skills. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll at least give him the benefit of the doubt that one's honest perception of events is often not accurate. If you were getting shot at by 10 guys I can see how you might think you were getting shot at by a hundred. With only 4 guys that fight could be over very quickly. Story has always seemed a bit off but none of us really know. If you can't tell if you're in a fight with 10 or a 100, you aren't very high speed. aaand we're off! |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:05:29 AM EDT
[#19]
I'm just gonna be over here hunkered down like a SR team in the dunes.
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:08:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread is a Category 5 Shit Storm brewing. Buckle up |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:11:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buckle up Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This thread is a Category 5 Shit Storm brewing. Buckle up it's been surprisingly civil so far |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:12:24 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:25:40 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:25:56 AM EDT
[#24]
I was not there, no one else here was there either.
I will not consider disparaging a man who was "In the Arena" Just not going to do it.
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:26:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Not knocking SEALs, but if the Navy can make shit like this up, do you think its possible the guy they put out there that "killed OBL" isn't actually the guy?
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:27:36 AM EDT
[#26]
I was quite interested with this event and did a bunch of research. I loved the movie but there were a few things that smelled bad. I felt Marcus's account for crawling/walking/flying/teleporting around that night changed often. Then the special features of the movie pretty much gave it away when Marcus would speak.
"Yea uhh this is where I like, killed like 10 guys". And then walked away. Cool story bro? |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:29:14 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: No, the Newsweek article was accurate. No one screening our Iraqi & Afghan allies for resettlement wants to have their name on a paper of someone who turns out to be a terrorist.
My buddy worked for us in Iraq from 2003-2011, and had to wait for his visa for @ least a year from when he applied. He's got page after page of recommendations for resettlement from every unit he worked for. The situation is probably worse in Afghanistan b/c of the lack of linguists to translate the background investigations of the linguists who've been working for us since 2001 and want to get the hell out - to the extent that there was a rumor that linguists applications were being deliberately slowed - IOT maintain a large enough pool of linguists to continue operations. Someone like Gulab is @ the bottom of the barrel as far as his application goes. https://www.fbi.gov/louisville/press-releases/2011/two-iraqi-nationals-indicted-on-federal-terrorism-charges-in-kentucky In a number of meetings with the CHS, Alwan allegedly discussed his prior activities as an insurgent in Iraq from 2003 until his capture by Iraqi authorities in May 2006... Someone @ State FUBARed that investigation. Why do you give a visa to someone who had been captured by the Iraqis as an insurgent? Unless this was just another version of Fast & Furious.
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:31:58 AM EDT
[#28]
Should have been a Force Recon misson
I was never impressed by the 'hair gel-Oakley' crew. "Landing on the X" is bad fucking idea that SEALs thought up....and continue to use. There is a reason why Rangers would do up to 4 'false insertions' We learned to hump 20+ Klicks in. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:32:09 AM EDT
[#29]
Minus the boys dying, most of the last half of the movie is make up. So I can buy this...
Using Mark Walberg was a fuck up too as he is the same character in every movie so it wasn't believable. Still I'll watch it for some Mk12 Mod1 action   
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:35:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe they should spend less time assaulting civilians while drunk and work on basic soldier skills. Folks who drink to the foam don't have basic soldier skills b/c, they're, um, not soldiers? Basic sailor skills of fighting fires in enclosed spaces and chipping paint are probably not very useful in the SEALs. But recruiting future sailors is what the SEALs shine @. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:47:20 AM EDT
[#31]
IF (big if) things happened as described, then I never understood why they let the goat herders go before they had made contact and were ready to extract. They basically released them and then moved on to high ground, not knowing for sure how far they would have to go to make radio contact. Meanwhile the herders are hauling ass to get help.
Why not take them with you, and release them right before the helicopter lands? If they really thought their only choices were to kill them, tie them up to freeze to death, or just release them, then I really question their decision making and critical thinking skills. If you take them with you, your odds of being tracked down and overrun seem very small. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:49:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Tag
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Posted: 5/12/2016 12:55:17 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was not there, no one else here was there either. I will not consider disparaging a man who was "In the Arena" Just not going to do it. lol ok |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 1:08:04 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IF (big if) things happened as described, then I never understood why they let the goat herders go before they had made contact and were ready to extract. They basically released them and then moved on to high ground, not knowing for sure how far they would have to go to make radio contact. Meanwhile the herders are hauling ass to get help. Why not take them with you, and release them right before the helicopter lands? If they really thought their only choices were to kill them, tie them up to freeze to death, or just release them, then I really question their decision making and critical thinking skills. If you take them with you, your odds of being tracked down and overrun seem very small. Yep. And the whole thing about "CNN finding out" is utter bullshit too. Dead men tell no tales. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 1:18:05 AM EDT
[#35]
There is no way I'll ever believe that Marcus Luttrell had 11 full magazines left, insinuating he is a coward and didn't fight back. I think Mr. Gulab has gotten a little taste of that so called American greed the "peace loving" Afghan's often refer to. He obviously has some people pushing their agenda forth, and I have no doubt he feels he deserves a larger take than he has been given.
If you've tasted Middle Eastern/ Southwest Asian sand, and dealt with the local population on a person to person basis, you instantly get an accurate impression that they seriously lack common sense, and are not very intelligent in the ways of the world. Don't get me wrong, they can herd goats like a pro, and can MacGyver some third world shit; however, they cannot follow instructions worth a damn, but when you start talking about money, their eyes glaze over and they turn into Warren Buffet real quick. Mr. Gulab seems to have gotten a taste of capitalism, and wants to cash in on his story. There's no better way to make a book sell than to create controversy, and this is why his story will contradict Mr. Luttrell's. There's little doubt the initial story has its flaws, it's bound to, just like every other war story ever told. Anyone who's served in the military, law enforcement, and similar hazardous occupations know that in the "fog of war", skirmishes are filled with a metric shit ton of confusion, and things often happen differently than they are remembered later on. I wasn't there that day, so I cannot comprehend what Marcus Luttrell experienced that day, but I will stand by my earlier statement that no way in hell I believe he had his complete combat load unused. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 1:40:13 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no way I'll ever believe that Marcus Luttrell had 11 full magazines left, insinuating he is a coward and didn't fight back. I think Mr. Gulab has gotten a little taste of that so called American greed the "peace loving" Afghan's often refer to. He obviously has some people pushing their agenda forth, and I have no doubt he feels he deserves a larger take than he has been given. If you've tasted Middle Eastern/ Southwest Asian sand, and dealt with the local population on a person to person basis, you instantly get an accurate impression that they seriously lack common sense, and are not very intelligent in the ways of the world. Don't get me wrong, they can herd goats like a pro, and can MacGyver some third world shit; however, they cannot follow instructions worth a damn, but when you start talking about money, their eyes glaze over and they turn into Warren Buffet real quick. Mr. Gulab seems to have gotten a taste of capitalism, and wants to cash in on his story. There's no better way to make a book sell than to create controversy, and this is why his story will contradict Mr. Luttrell's. There's little doubt the initial story has its flaws, it's bound to, just like every other war story ever told. Anyone who's served in the military, law enforcement, and similar hazardous occupations know that in the "fog of war", skirmishes are filled with a metric shit ton of confusion, and things often happen differently than they are remembered later on. I wasn't there that day, so I cannot comprehend what Marcus Luttrell experienced that day, but I will stand by my earlier statement that no way in hell I believe he had his complete combat load unused. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 1:49:59 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Should have been a Force Recon misson I was never impressed by the 'hair gel-Oakley' crew. "Landing on the X" is bad fucking idea that SEALs thought up....and continue to use. There is a reason why Rangers would do up to 4 'false insertions' We learned to hump 20+ Klicks in. Ranger regiment is the most professional organization I have ever seen in the military. I participated in rehearsals that they did for some missions. Everyone was involved and everyone wore all the equipment that they would have on objective. I never saw SEAL's do mission rehearsals. 
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Posted: 5/12/2016 2:09:51 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it's been surprisingly civil so far Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This thread is a Category 5 Shit Storm brewing. Buckle up it's been surprisingly civil so far Yeah. The "Marcus is God" contingent has been beat into silence by now. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 2:24:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wading ass deep into indian territory with no experience, no planning and no humility is a good way to get your ass beat. I have had only a few interactions with seals. they were all very, very bad. ridiculously and infuriatingly bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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let the stories meet in the middle...where truth normally lies.... actually, no. OJ either killed his wife or he didn't. there is not something in between. Either they were attacked by hundreds of taliban and there was an epic battle or there wasn't. One of the most amazing stories in history. 4 people involved; 3 NCs and a medal of honor. multiple books and even a movie. What's your analysis of the tactical conditions that would lead to 7-12 Taliban ( most likely true) so easily killing 3 SEALs? I would think the SEALs, who were not moving and attempting to stay in cover, would have some tactical advantage and could have killed quite a few of the Taliban. Unless the SEALs just completely screwed the pooch and were just caught flat footed. Either way the book's account seems highly unlikely. I wonder if the Navy officially crafted the hero seals narrative and told Marcus to run with it. wading ass deep into indian territory with no experience, no planning and no humility is a good way to get your ass beat. I have had only a few interactions with seals. they were all very, very bad. ridiculously and infuriatingly bad. Yep. SEALs were horrible to work with. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 2:26:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
been saying for years... that gun fight lasted for about 10 seconds... Marcus was just the luckiest and the fastest. Thought that was the original report of it all, he caught an explosion and fell off out of sight and out of mind, escaped and came up on the village that saved him. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 2:29:23 AM EDT
[#41]
interesting read. I don't know what to believe.
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Posted: 5/12/2016 2:34:14 AM EDT
[#42]
I don't know the truth of Luttrel's story, but don't piss on the graves of the men who died.
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Posted: 5/12/2016 2:53:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derek45/media/Animations/4PCsMWC_zpszdsthhui.gif.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/Animations/4PCsMWC_zpszdsthhui.gif</a> LOL |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 3:10:56 AM EDT
[#44]
From what I've heard over time, SEALs are a relatively unimpressive lot. And I understand that I'm a civilian, and that limits the validity of my opinion somewhat, but a poster here who worked with some SEALs told me some things about them that would be considered amateurish at best.
Not something that inspires a whole lot of confidence, in my opinion. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 4:17:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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....newsweek ? i don't trust them to report the whole truth about anything. this. It's not like Newsweek is the first to question ML's version of events. The only thing new here is that the guy who saved ML's life is the one telling his story. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 4:42:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Indeed  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My only statement is I am glad Luttrel survived. Without his eyewitness account, Lieutenant Murphy would not have received the Medal of Honor. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 6:09:33 AM EDT
[#47]
Hasn't it been known that Lone Survivor is a bunch of bs made up by some professional book writer that met Luttrel just once for a quick interview. And then changed alot to make the story more exciting or heroic?
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Posted: 5/12/2016 6:18:29 AM EDT
[#48]
I read the book after it first came out.
I finally saw the movie a couple of months ago. When I did I recognized inconsistencies in the story line. I'm half way though my second reading of the book because of these inconsistencies. Something smells really fishy to me. Don't have time now but, the links posted here are of great interest to me. Thanks to all who have contributed. And yeah, this thread is liable to go to shit real quick. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 6:30:40 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know what to believe anymore. In the same boat. A special place in hell for those who lie. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 7:16:03 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know the truth of Luttrel's story, but don't piss on the graves of the men who died. like the night stalkers who in the movie (apparently) were cowards? |
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