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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:37:45 AM EDT
[#1]
I guess it's like "rebuilding" mags during the ban. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:39:58 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My grandfather made tons of home-made wine over the 50 years he was here in America. That never went afoul. He also made 'moonshine' (probably 180 proof, give or take) from boiling the grape pressings leftover after, and that went fine as well. People have been making hard alcohol on their own for centuries, but all of a sudden it's now "not safe" to do so?
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Go into your local homebrew shop and ask to buy a still. A friend of mine made one. He got the plans off of the Internet and got all of the materials together. He is a plumber by trade so everything he used was lead free and safe for human consumption. It looked pretty good and he was happy with the way it turned out but he has never used it because he is afraid he will cook up a bad batch and get people sick. It was only a small one, he size of an extra large cooking pot. My grandfather made tons of home-made wine over the 50 years he was here in America. That never went afoul. He also made 'moonshine' (probably 180 proof, give or take) from boiling the grape pressings leftover after, and that went fine as well. People have been making hard alcohol on their own for centuries, but all of a sudden it's now "not safe" to do so?
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:41:12 AM EDT
[#3]
I have a friend who's a retired narcotics agent, he said he wouldn't waste the time and taxpayers money to go after someone with a personal still, especially if it was good stuff.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:50:07 AM EDT
[#4]
One of my former employees had a still and a license to operate it. He was only licensed to make ethanol for fuel but he sure missed a lot of days at work.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:50:24 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, it's actually illegal to make. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is not illegal to make. It is illegal to sell........ No, it's actually illegal to make. Yep illegal to make. Something I didn't learn until my 30's. Grew up on Long Island and saw many Polish, German and Portuguese people's garages with Small stills, back in the 70's and 80's. Seems a lot of just off the boat folks just do what they always did, and keep their mouths shut about it. I'm sure that has changed in the last few decades. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:51:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Taxes, period.
As someone who has considered opening a micro distillery, and has written software to manage brewers and distilling operations including ATF reporting trust me the government REALLY wants its money from this industry. And yes several of the distillers I have talked to started at home, illegally. "Essential oil" stills are pretty prevalent in the homebrew stores around here. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:53:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: George Washington in this case. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I see no difference in the dangers of manufacturing your own guns for personal use or for sale, but then again, I despise the ATF and don't think it should exist in the first place. When did it become commonplace for government to regulate everything anyways  George Washington in this case. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:57:33 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
I've always wondered why it was illegal to make your own moonshine? Why is this something the government even regulates. I'm assuming the answer is revenue, but I could be wrong Gotta pay the tax |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:00:32 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I googled and it said there is no distinction in the law for personal use and for sale Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is not illegal to make. It is illegal to sell........ I googled and it said there is no distinction in the law for personal use and for sale |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:03:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Revenue is probably the biggest reason, but I'm sure health reasons are another. If someone screws up a batch and it makes people sick, blind, or dead then that's not a good thing.  There was a guy in ICU a few years ago. He worked on the river (Mississippi) and traded something to some Russians for alcohol. It was wood alcohol. He did get his vision back, which I didn't know was possible, but he was sick as a mo fo and blind for a while. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:07:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And you'd be wrong about that. It's illegal to make, without a license (permission to pay tax  ). And as a hobbyist...you ain't getting one.
The fact that everybody assumes it's legal for personal use (like beer and wine) because hey - that'd be common sense, is a testament to just how silly the law is. Not that you'll ever get caught (unless you're a moron), but...da law is da law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is not illegal to make. It is illegal to sell........ And you'd be wrong about that. It's illegal to make, without a license (permission to pay tax ). And as a hobbyist...you ain't getting one.
The fact that everybody assumes it's legal for personal use (like beer and wine) because hey - that'd be common sense, is a testament to just how silly the law is. Not that you'll ever get caught (unless you're a moron), but...da law is da law. Correct. It's illegal to even own part of an alcohol still without a license. You can get an experimental license, even as a hobbyist, but it's one helluva expensive hobby. It cannot be located at your residence, and the property it is on cannot be connected to your residential property at all. This sounds harsh, but it actually protects you...if you get busted doing something wrong, they take the entire property. If you decide to cross that line, do NOT do it at your home. That's the reason people still do it out in the middle of the woods. If you buy one of those stills on Amazon, you DO get put on a list. It's a well-known list, too. By law, the makers of stills and still parts have to keep a record of buyers, and the ATF does review them. Loads of people who've bought those stills have received follow-up letters from the feds soon after. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:08:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Those clawhammer still kits look nice. I have been wanting to get one for a while. I really wish they would do like New Zealand, and allow home distillation for personal use, like homebrew.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:11:55 AM EDT
[#13]
Gubmint don't want you havin' no fun! Same reason the corksoakers regalates tobaccy and fararms!
Have any states ever tried to buck the feds and say the feds are over reaching and this should be a state matter? |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:12:48 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go into your local homebrew shop and ask to buy a still. I've been to one that had one sale, for "display purposes only" and books on how to use it for "educational purposes only". |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:19:09 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You would be wrong. It is illegal to manufacture distilled spirits without paying the tax even for your own use. Beer and wine are ok and that is all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is not illegal to make. It is illegal to sell........ They could always change the laws. President Carter made home beer brewing legal. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:23:01 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can't distill alcohol for personal consumption w/o the proper tax being paid in any amount. This differs from non distilled spirits. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is not illegal to make. It is illegal to sell........ You can't distill alcohol for personal consumption w/o the proper tax being paid in any amount. This differs from non distilled spirits. I believe it was Jimmy Carter who "allowed" personal production of beer and wine. I would have to research how he did it, but my assumption is: -Any/all production of beer, wine, and distiller spirits is BANNED without an ATF tax license; -Carter probably left the law/regs in place, but created an "exception" for personal use. If I'm right, it would explain why you can make gallons of beer at home and even give some to friends, but you'll need a permit to sell it or produce hundreds of gallons at a time. Carter also chose not to include distilled spirits in his "exception" or loop hole. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:26:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some states have their own laws, but it is still a crime federally. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It is not illegal to make. It is illegal to sell........ I googled and it said there is no distinction in the law for personal use and for sale Some states have their own laws, but it is still a crime federally. In Missouri, it's legal to make it. But I think the federal laws say you can't make it. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:40:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is not illegal to make. It is illegal to sell........ It is very much illegal to make...selling just adds more charges. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:46:30 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to be an avid homebrewer. While I had my favorite or "regular" brews I used to make, I liked trying to brew different styles. I had a converted refrigerator and kegged all my brews and always had 3 different beers on tap in my basement. Anyway, I thought I wanted to try brewing an "ice" beer and was told this was a strict no-no as it is considered a form of distillation. Crash cooling to 31 - 32 degrees and skimming the final product of the ice layer(s) that form on the top. (Water freezes before ethyl alcohol and skimming ice is a way to artificially increase the alcohol content of the brew). IIRC there was a certain amount of beer/ale you were allowed to make a year that was for "personal consumption" before you needed to get permitted and taxed.....yea right.... Actually the TTB of the ATF ruled that freeze distillation is not illegal since there is no heat involved and the water is removed from the alcohol instead of heating and removing the alcohol from the water. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 11:05:19 AM EDT
[#20]
The county I live in borders the moonshine capitol of the US. That said, I can get shine anytime I want. I prefer Vodka though.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 11:07:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Federal law requires you buy pay a tax, and then you can make it me thinks.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 5:37:56 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a friend who's a retired narcotics agent, he said he wouldn't waste the time and taxpayers money to go after someone with a personal still, especially if it was good stuff. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 5:40:39 PM EDT
[#23]
For the same reason it's illegal to store rainwater...
Because. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 5:40:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: I've always wondered why it was illegal to make your own moonshine? Why is this something the government even regulates. I'm assuming the answer is revenue, but I could be wrong That |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 5:41:41 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually the TTB of the ATF ruled that freeze distillation is not illegal since there is no heat involved and the water is removed from the alcohol instead of heating and removing the alcohol from the water. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I used to be an avid homebrewer. While I had my favorite or "regular" brews I used to make, I liked trying to brew different styles. I had a converted refrigerator and kegged all my brews and always had 3 different beers on tap in my basement. Anyway, I thought I wanted to try brewing an "ice" beer and was told this was a strict no-no as it is considered a form of distillation. Crash cooling to 31 - 32 degrees and skimming the final product of the ice layer(s) that form on the top. (Water freezes before ethyl alcohol and skimming ice is a way to artificially increase the alcohol content of the brew). IIRC there was a certain amount of beer/ale you were allowed to make a year that was for "personal consumption" before you needed to get permitted and taxed.....yea right.... Actually the TTB of the ATF ruled that freeze distillation is not illegal since there is no heat involved and the water is removed from the alcohol instead of heating and removing the alcohol from the water. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 5:43:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Because the tax man doesn't get his cut.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 5:51:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looking at the explosion in craft beer over the last 10-15 years, they have good reason to be concerned. 
There's already a distillery in Cleveland that swears up and down that you can replicate the chemical changes that occur through aging in barrels, through science. In days, not years. I have yet to try it. I keep meaning to. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you even go blind, bro I may have....uuuuhhhmmm....well I still have my eye sight. So no that is not the reason. That is a stigma that is attached to enforce the real reason. Taxes and government control. I'm not even sure I buy the tax argument anymore. There are hobbyists all over the country that would gladly pay a tax on whatever they make at home, but they're not even allowed to. The blindness thing doesn't hold water either, because there's no way you're ingesting enough methanol out of the 5 gallon batch you made in your kitchen to do it - even if you drank the heads straight (which will be mostly acetone, and taste like shit). I'd be more worried about improper sanitation when making beer, but the government doesn't seem to care enough about that to make it illegal either. At this point, I honestly think it's just bureaucratic inertia, with a healthy dose of "it's always been this way". People just assume there are good reasons for it and start hypothesizing what they must be. There just aren't. My guess is that the liquor lobby has better lobbyists. High bar of entry through regulation is always great for business, once you aren't the little guy anymore. Looking at the explosion in craft beer over the last 10-15 years, they have good reason to be concerned.
There's already a distillery in Cleveland that swears up and down that you can replicate the chemical changes that occur through aging in barrels, through science. In days, not years. I have yet to try it. I keep meaning to. they did something like this on moonshiners not long ago. rapidly aged scotch. first they cubed oak and charred it on all sides, more surface are, then they ran it through cycles of heating and cooling this causes the wood to absorb and expel the liquor nearly replicating what occurs in the course of a year in just a few cycles. to answer the OP one of the first taxes and almost a civil war was for whiskey. Taxes don't go away. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 5:54:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But a guy can push a (ETA; stolen) shopping cart around the barrio selling mayonnaise slathered corn on the cob and enchiladas tamales prepared in a immaculate home kitchen, and he's just trying to make a buck. You forgot the ice cream bars made in a bath tub. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 5:55:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
he would be fine, the dangerous (blinding ) occurs if you don't discard the first few ounces of the batch and the last few (where the temperature is still warming/ cooling) that is when methanol and other crap comes out of the still Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Go into your local homebrew shop and ask to buy a still. A friend of mine made one. He got the plans off of the Internet and got all of the materials together. He is a plumber by trade so everything he used was lead free and safe for human consumption. It looked pretty good and he was happy with the way it turned out but he has never used it because he is afraid he will cook up a bad batch and get people sick. It was only a small one, he size of an extra large cooking pot. he would be fine, the dangerous (blinding ) occurs if you don't discard the first few ounces of the batch and the last few (where the temperature is still warming/ cooling) that is when methanol and other crap comes out of the still the tails (last few) don't contain anything harmful besides that nasty dihydrogen monoxide |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 6:07:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With a thermometer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Go into your local homebrew shop and ask to buy a still. A friend of mine made one. He got the plans off of the Internet and got all of the materials together. He is a plumber by trade so everything he used was lead free and safe for human consumption. It looked pretty good and he was happy with the way it turned out but he has never used it because he is afraid he will cook up a bad batch and get people sick. It was only a small one, he size of an extra large cooking pot. he would be fine, the dangerous (blinding ) occurs if you don't discard the first few ounces of the batch and the last few (where the temperature is still warming/ cooling) that is when methanol and other crap comes out of the still I always wondered how they knew how much to throw away. smell and taste |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 6:08:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, making applejack is legal now? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I used to be an avid homebrewer. While I had my favorite or "regular" brews I used to make, I liked trying to brew different styles. I had a converted refrigerator and kegged all my brews and always had 3 different beers on tap in my basement. Anyway, I thought I wanted to try brewing an "ice" beer and was told this was a strict no-no as it is considered a form of distillation. Crash cooling to 31 - 32 degrees and skimming the final product of the ice layer(s) that form on the top. (Water freezes before ethyl alcohol and skimming ice is a way to artificially increase the alcohol content of the brew). IIRC there was a certain amount of beer/ale you were allowed to make a year that was for "personal consumption" before you needed to get permitted and taxed.....yea right.... Actually the TTB of the ATF ruled that freeze distillation is not illegal since there is no heat involved and the water is removed from the alcohol instead of heating and removing the alcohol from the water. Yes, as far as I know it was never illegal. But the TTB did issue a ruling saying freeze distillation was not against the law. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:22:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, as far as I know it was never illegal. But the TTB did issue a ruling saying freeze distillation was not against the law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I used to be an avid homebrewer. While I had my favorite or "regular" brews I used to make, I liked trying to brew different styles. I had a converted refrigerator and kegged all my brews and always had 3 different beers on tap in my basement. Anyway, I thought I wanted to try brewing an "ice" beer and was told this was a strict no-no as it is considered a form of distillation. Crash cooling to 31 - 32 degrees and skimming the final product of the ice layer(s) that form on the top. (Water freezes before ethyl alcohol and skimming ice is a way to artificially increase the alcohol content of the brew). IIRC there was a certain amount of beer/ale you were allowed to make a year that was for "personal consumption" before you needed to get permitted and taxed.....yea right.... Actually the TTB of the ATF ruled that freeze distillation is not illegal since there is no heat involved and the water is removed from the alcohol instead of heating and removing the alcohol from the water. Yes, as far as I know it was never illegal. But the TTB did issue a ruling saying freeze distillation was not against the law. If I am reading this Reddit thread correctly it says that is only the case for beer and not ok for cider and wine. I don't keep up on alcohol laws but this is ridiculous |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:24:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Taxes plus drinks that cause you to go blind.
Not that Revenuers ever cared about anyone going blind..... |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:41:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see no difference in the dangers of manufacturing your own guns for personal use or for sale, but then again, I despise the ATF and don't think it should exist in the first place. When did it become commonplace for government to regulate everything anyways In the case of alcohol, 1791 imposed by George Washington |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:44:00 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not even sure I buy the tax argument anymore. There are hobbyists all over the country that would gladly pay a tax on whatever they make at home, but they're not even allowed to. The blindness thing doesn't hold water either, because there's no way you're ingesting enough methanol out of the 5 gallon batch you made in your kitchen to do it - even if you drank the heads straight (which will be mostly acetone, and taste like shit). I'd be more worried about improper sanitation when making beer, but the government doesn't seem to care enough about that to make it illegal either. At this point, I honestly think it's just bureaucratic inertia, with a healthy dose of "it's always been this way". People just assume there are good reasons for it and start hypothesizing what they must be. There just aren't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you even go blind, bro I may have....uuuuhhhmmm....well I still have my eye sight. So no that is not the reason. That is a stigma that is attached to enforce the real reason. Taxes and government control. I'm not even sure I buy the tax argument anymore. There are hobbyists all over the country that would gladly pay a tax on whatever they make at home, but they're not even allowed to. The blindness thing doesn't hold water either, because there's no way you're ingesting enough methanol out of the 5 gallon batch you made in your kitchen to do it - even if you drank the heads straight (which will be mostly acetone, and taste like shit). I'd be more worried about improper sanitation when making beer, but the government doesn't seem to care enough about that to make it illegal either. At this point, I honestly think it's just bureaucratic inertia, with a healthy dose of "it's always been this way". People just assume there are good reasons for it and start hypothesizing what they must be. There just aren't. It may start getting better, there have been more distillers authorized in the last few years than since Volstead was repealed. The Craft distillery boom is rivaling the craft brewing boom of the 90s |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:45:09 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:50:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I googled and it said there is no distinction in the law for personal use and for sale Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is not illegal to make. It is illegal to sell........ I googled and it said there is no distinction in the law for personal use and for sale Just because you found something on the internet doesn't mean it's true. The fact that you have to ask about moonshine, though, means that it doesn't surprise me that you might not have fully caught on to that. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:58:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Amazon has them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Go into your local homebrew shop and ask to buy a still. Amazon has them. Moonshine Stills |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:20:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was established to pay for the revolutionary war. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Read about The Whiskey Rebellion--George Washington no less went after farmers for making their own & not paying taxes. It's horseshit to say it's about public safety, methanol, going blind, etc--like with most things--follow the money, based on our history. And their is no difference re: personal use or sale-you cannot legally distill ethanol in the USA without paying for permits, taxes etc. 
It was established to pay for the revolutionary war. This. Back in the beginning our country, taxes were mostly excise taxes and tariffs on stuff shipped here. Those taxes paid for government and improved roads, etc. Income taxes didn't come about until 1913. Now, with all the income taxes we have, it should be fairly easy to make the case that penalties for untaxed whiskey are unjustified. LC |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 12:42:04 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those clawhammer still kits look nice. I have been wanting to get one for a while. I really wish they would do like New Zealand, and allow home distillation for personal use, like homebrew.
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Posted: 4/29/2016 1:10:54 AM EDT
[#41]
I can think of only one thing President Carter did while in office that was laudable. He signed a bill that repealed the Federal restrictions and excise tax on homebrewing. Somewhere in the back of my brain, I kind of thought that President Obama would sign a similar bill repealing USC Title 26 subtitle E Ch51.
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Posted: 4/29/2016 1:16:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not even sure I buy the tax argument anymore. There are hobbyists all over the country that would gladly pay a tax on whatever they make at home, but they're not even allowed to. The blindness thing doesn't hold water either, because there's no way you're ingesting enough methanol out of the 5 gallon batch you made in your kitchen to do it - even if you drank the heads straight (which will be mostly acetone, and taste like shit). I'd be more worried about improper sanitation when making beer, but the government doesn't seem to care enough about that to make it illegal either. At this point, I honestly think it's just bureaucratic inertia, with a healthy dose of "it's always been this way". People just assume there are good reasons for it and start hypothesizing what they must be. There just aren't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you even go blind, bro I may have....uuuuhhhmmm....well I still have my eye sight. So no that is not the reason. That is a stigma that is attached to enforce the real reason. Taxes and government control. I'm not even sure I buy the tax argument anymore. There are hobbyists all over the country that would gladly pay a tax on whatever they make at home, but they're not even allowed to. The blindness thing doesn't hold water either, because there's no way you're ingesting enough methanol out of the 5 gallon batch you made in your kitchen to do it - even if you drank the heads straight (which will be mostly acetone, and taste like shit). I'd be more worried about improper sanitation when making beer, but the government doesn't seem to care enough about that to make it illegal either. At this point, I honestly think it's just bureaucratic inertia, with a healthy dose of "it's always been this way". People just assume there are good reasons for it and start hypothesizing what they must be. There just aren't. Nailed it. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 1:43:02 AM EDT
[#43]
Why is it illegal to homebrew machine guns?
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Posted: 4/29/2016 2:06:00 AM EDT
[#44]
Home brew liquor/grain alcohol is illegal/taxed because it was an early form of currency. Unused/unsold grain that would rot was converted into ethanol and used as a common barter item. It was effectively currency. It's purity could be easily tested and it had value. It was money. So it came under the scrutiny of the treasury dept.
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Posted: 4/29/2016 7:33:03 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those clawhammer still kits look nice. I have been wanting to get one for a while. I really wish they would do like New Zealand, and allow home distillation for personal use, like homebrew.  |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 12:07:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the tails (last few) don't contain anything harmful besides that nasty dihydrogen monoxide Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Go into your local homebrew shop and ask to buy a still. A friend of mine made one. He got the plans off of the Internet and got all of the materials together. He is a plumber by trade so everything he used was lead free and safe for human consumption. It looked pretty good and he was happy with the way it turned out but he has never used it because he is afraid he will cook up a bad batch and get people sick. It was only a small one, he size of an extra large cooking pot. he would be fine, the dangerous (blinding ) occurs if you don't discard the first few ounces of the batch and the last few (where the temperature is still warming/ cooling) that is when methanol and other crap comes out of the still the tails (last few) don't contain anything harmful besides that nasty dihydrogen monoxide |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 12:07:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Taxes. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 12:08:17 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is not illegal to make. It is illegal to sell........ Sorry you are wrong. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 12:08:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is not illegal to make. It is illegal to sell without paying taxes..... |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 12:13:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is not illegal to make. It is illegal to sell without paying taxes..... Not entirely correct. You have to pay the tax, whether it gets sold or not. It is also illegal to sell without paying sales tax. It is illegal to make without paying taxes, AND it is illegal to sell without paying taxes. |
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