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Posted: 2/14/2016 12:08:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless I'm completely missing something in that section it does not allow the use of deadly force to apprehend a fleeing thief. If the suspect that a private citizen is attempting to arrest resists to the point the private citizen is in reasonable fear of death or GBI deadly force would be allowable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This was posted on another forum: SECTION 17-13-10. Circumstances when any person may arrest a felon or thief. Upon (a) view of a felony committed, (b) certain information that a felony has been committed or (c) view of a larceny committed, any person may arrest the felon or thief and take him to a judge or magistrate, to be dealt with according to law. HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 17-251; 1952 Code Section 17-251; 1942 Code Section 907; 1932 Code Section 907; Cr. P. '22 Section 1; Cr. C. '12 Section 1; Cr. C. '02 Section 1; G. S. 2616; R. S. 1; 1866 (13) 406; 1898 (22) 809. SECTION 17-13-20. Additional circumstances when citizens may arrest; means to be used. A citizen may arrest a person in the nighttime by efficient means as the darkness and the probability of escape render necessary, even if the life of the person should be taken, when the person: (a) has committed a felony; (b) has entered a dwelling house without express or implied permission; (c) has broken or is breaking into an outhouse with a view to plunder; (d) has in his possession stolen property; or (e) being under circumstances which raise just suspicion of his design to steal or to commit some felony, flees when he is hailed. http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t17c013.php Unless I'm completely missing something in that section it does not allow the use of deadly force to apprehend a fleeing thief. If the suspect that a private citizen is attempting to arrest resists to the point the private citizen is in reasonable fear of death or GBI deadly force would be allowable. Seems like it was a good shot based on this. |
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Posted: 2/14/2016 2:02:24 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is crazy how much cultural ideology plays into use of force. I'm positive you could find 12 jurors, a judge and a prosecutor to agree "some people just need killing" would be a valid defense in parts of Texas. Agreed. Thieves Suck. If more of these happen, it might give thousands of others a moment of pause before invading another man's property. |
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Posted: 2/14/2016 2:02:27 AM EDT
[#3]
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Don't break the law and steal people's stuff. I don't feel bad for the criminal at all. yep , occupational hazard. |
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Posted: 2/14/2016 2:07:50 AM EDT
[#4]
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Put my ass on that jury and it'd be hung like Dirk Diggler. Good shoot. 
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Posted: 2/14/2016 2:13:31 AM EDT
[#5]
Good shoot
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Posted: 2/14/2016 2:17:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Fuck thieves with a rusty knife
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Posted: 2/14/2016 2:19:34 AM EDT
[#7]
"He was reaching into his waistband. He said he had a gun."
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Posted: 2/14/2016 2:21:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Here in Sw MS a few years ago a guy shot a guy in the back running away that wasn't armed. He was wanted by the state police in LA for a variety of reasons and they had a manhunt underway for him for a month.
He not only wasn't charged the sherriffs department in LA gave him a $10k reward. |
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Posted: 2/14/2016 3:21:36 AM EDT
[#9]
I pray he is found not guilty.......
......did his community a favor and got rid of a shitbag thief |
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Posted: 2/14/2016 3:33:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm, that guy in CA just got off for shooting the criminal stealing his car as he was driving away. I'm glad I live in a state with good self-defense laws... While it seems to be true that prosecutors here almost never go after people when it comes to self defense, there is no civil immunity here. At all. |
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Posted: 2/14/2016 3:38:25 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seems like it was a good shot based on this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This was posted on another forum: SECTION 17-13-10. Circumstances when any person may arrest a felon or thief. Upon (a) view of a felony committed, (b) certain information that a felony has been committed or (c) view of a larceny committed, any person may arrest the felon or thief and take him to a judge or magistrate, to be dealt with according to law. HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 17-251; 1952 Code Section 17-251; 1942 Code Section 907; 1932 Code Section 907; Cr. P. '22 Section 1; Cr. C. '12 Section 1; Cr. C. '02 Section 1; G. S. 2616; R. S. 1; 1866 (13) 406; 1898 (22) 809. SECTION 17-13-20. Additional circumstances when citizens may arrest; means to be used. A citizen may arrest a person in the nighttime by efficient means as the darkness and the probability of escape render necessary, even if the life of the person should be taken, when the person: (a) has committed a felony; (b) has entered a dwelling house without express or implied permission; (c) has broken or is breaking into an outhouse with a view to plunder; (d) has in his possession stolen property; or (e) being under circumstances which raise just suspicion of his design to steal or to commit some felony, flees when he is hailed. http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t17c013.php Unless I'm completely missing something in that section it does not allow the use of deadly force to apprehend a fleeing thief. If the suspect that a private citizen is attempting to arrest resists to the point the private citizen is in reasonable fear of death or GBI deadly force would be allowable. Seems like it was a good shot based on this. It appears I completely missed that part 
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Posted: 2/14/2016 3:49:19 AM EDT
[#12]
I'm not a fan of many things from Texas, but Texas law concerning self defense and defense of property should be a role model for all free states. This is an example of why.
My hopes are for the homeowner to walk, and that the thief suffered in his last moments. |
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Posted: 2/14/2016 5:52:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You cant shoot someone running away just because they stole something from you unless you can articulate that person was a deadly threat to others. Even though he wasnt an officer Tennessee v. Garner should apply here. Sucks to be that guy. You can in Texas, at night... 
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Posted: 2/14/2016 8:18:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Learn how to get between the thief and the exit. He turned when I shot Just Google Joe Horn he shot two guys running from his neighbors house killing both of them. NO BILL 
In my house , if I get a clear shot it is over. In the back , in the face, in the ass , don't matter. |
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Posted: 2/14/2016 8:29:00 AM EDT
[#15]
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Enjoy your fucking bullet button, broseph. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hmm, that guy in CA just got off for shooting the criminal stealing his car as he was driving away. I'm glad I live in a state with good self-defense laws...
Enjoy your fucking bullet button, broseph. Hell yeah, Full Auto FTW! 
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:25:19 PM EDT
[#16]
The kid was being raised by his grandmother who had little to no control over him. No telling where mom and dad are. Not making excuses but kids generally do better in a nuclear family environment.
http://www.wistv.com/story/31227820/two-families-devastated-with-a-husband-in-jail-teen-killed There is a gofundme link at the news story to cover the kid's funeral expenses. He was already a father at 17. 
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:31:13 PM EDT
[#17]
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I pray he is found not guilty....... ......did his community a favor and got rid of a shitbag thief The home owner is being charged with involuntary manslaughter which is considered the least serious type of homicide in South Carolina. "A conviction for involuntary homicide is considered a Class F felony. Under SC state law, a Class F felony carries a potential sentence of up to five years in a state penitentiary and/or fines and probation upon release." He will be given probation if convicted but there is a better than even chance he will walk. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:34:03 PM EDT
[#18]
So all you have to do to be "untouchable" is to turn your back?
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:35:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One less thief, if I were on the jury he would be not guilty I hate thieves. Put me on the jury, he will walk. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:37:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More than likely, he will walk if it goes to trial. No one here gives two shits if a fleeing thief is killed. That's the spirit! 
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:40:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
“The law states that you can use deadly force to protect yourself, your family or someone who is in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm,” Matthews said. “The law does not allow you to shoot and kill someone who has stolen from you and is fleeing. Unfortunately, Jimmy Methe made a split-second, bad decision and will now face criminal charges.” http://www.thestate.com/news/local/article60220116.html He should be given 50% of the money it was going to cost the taxpayer to incarcerate that piece of shit, less funeral expenses and coroner costs. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:40:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Not guilty.
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:42:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is crazy how much cultural ideology plays into use of force. I'm positive you could find 12 jurors, a judge and a prosecutor to agree "some people just need killing" would be a valid defense in parts of Texas. I served on a grand jury in Dallas county for 3 months about 15 years ago. We were delivered one case of an abused woman who had jumped through every legal hoop in the book to keep her ex-husband away from her. Arrests, restraining orders, etc. He kept getting out and beating her. Finally she lured him to her house and shot him dead through the windshield of his car. The DA read the facts and excused himself from the room. We deliberated for a few minutes and no-billed her. He came in afterward and asked what we decided. We told him and he said, "Good, this was an HNK case anyway." Then he sat down and started pulling out more files. One of the jurors asked what that meant and he said, "Oh, HNK...He Needed Killin'. We get a few of those every year." |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:44:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forgot about that statute... Funny, they don't cover this in the CWP class. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This was posted on another forum: SECTION 17-13-10. Circumstances when any person may arrest a felon or thief. Upon (a) view of a felony committed, (b) certain information that a felony has been committed or (c) view of a larceny committed, any person may arrest the felon or thief and take him to a judge or magistrate, to be dealt with according to law. HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 17-251; 1952 Code Section 17-251; 1942 Code Section 907; 1932 Code Section 907; Cr. P. '22 Section 1; Cr. C. '12 Section 1; Cr. C. '02 Section 1; G. S. 2616; R. S. 1; 1866 (13) 406; 1898 (22) 809. SECTION 17-13-20. Additional circumstances when citizens may arrest; means to be used. A citizen may arrest a person in the nighttime by efficient means as the darkness and the probability of escape render necessary, even if the life of the person should be taken, when the person: (a) has committed a felony; (b) has entered a dwelling house without express or implied permission; (c) has broken or is breaking into an outhouse with a view to plunder; (d) has in his possession stolen property; or (e) being under circumstances which raise just suspicion of his design to steal or to commit some felony, flees when he is hailed. http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t17c013.php Forgot about that statute... Funny, they don't cover this in the CWP class. This is why he will walk |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:46:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So all you have to do to be "untouchable" is to turn your back? Yes. Apparently it's felonious armor. Shit goes bad, turn your back and you magically become a non threat that enjoys protected status, kinda like turkeys. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:48:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He's not a threat when he is running away Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Shoot to neutralize the threat. Once he/she is no longer a threat then you stop shooting. It really is that simple. He's not a threat when he is running away He is stealing the tools and equipment I use to feed my family. He is most definitely a threat. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 12:55:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you can you deadly force in Florida to stop a felony That would be a forcible felony not just any felony. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 1:02:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless I'm completely missing something in that section it does not allow the use of deadly force to apprehend a fleeing thief. If the suspect that a private citizen is attempting to arrest resists to the point the private citizen is in reasonable fear of death or GBI deadly force would be allowable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This was posted on another forum: SECTION 17-13-10. Circumstances when any person may arrest a felon or thief. Upon (a) view of a felony committed, (b) certain information that a felony has been committed or (c) view of a larceny committed, any person may arrest the felon or thief and take him to a judge or magistrate, to be dealt with according to law. HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 17-251; 1952 Code Section 17-251; 1942 Code Section 907; 1932 Code Section 907; Cr. P. '22 Section 1; Cr. C. '12 Section 1; Cr. C. '02 Section 1; G. S. 2616; R. S. 1; 1866 (13) 406; 1898 (22) 809. SECTION 17-13-20. Additional circumstances when citizens may arrest; means to be used. A citizen may arrest a person in the nighttime by efficient means as the darkness and the probability of escape render necessary, even if the life of the person should be taken, when the person: (a) has committed a felony; (b) has entered a dwelling house without express or implied permission; (c) has broken or is breaking into an outhouse with a view to plunder; (d) has in his possession stolen property; or (e) being under circumstances which raise just suspicion of his design to steal or to commit some felony, flees when he is hailed. http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t17c013.php Unless I'm completely missing something in that section it does not allow the use of deadly force to apprehend a fleeing thief. If the suspect that a private citizen is attempting to arrest resists to the point the private citizen is in reasonable fear of death or GBI deadly force would be allowable. Really??? Shooting someone seems pretty efficient to me. 
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Posted: 2/16/2016 1:48:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is stealing the tools and equipment I use to feed my family. He is most definitely a threat. He is not a threat of the sort that justifies the use of deadly force. That level of threat requires that you or a third party be in imminent danger of death or serious physical injury Larceny alone doesn't cut it Tools can be replaced. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 1:57:00 PM EDT
[#30]
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Tools can be replaced. So can the thieving POS population... I have zero sympathy for thieves and vandals, whatever fate befalls them in their endeavours... |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:04:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So can the thieving POS population... I have zero sympathy for thieves and vandals, whatever fate befalls them in their endeavours... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Tools can be replaced. So can the thieving POS population... I have zero sympathy for thieves and vandals, whatever fate befalls them in their endeavours... The welfare state will promptly breed more. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:21:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Bad Shoot. Thief was not a threat(No weapon), was committing a misdemeanor, not a felony. But, I am sure the jury will go "not guilty" |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:25:07 PM EDT
[#33]
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The welfare state will promptly breed more. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Tools can be replaced. So can the thieving POS population... I have zero sympathy for thieves and vandals, whatever fate befalls them in their endeavours... The welfare state will promptly breed more. I understand where you guys are coming from, but the legal system doesn't look at things that way |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:29:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand where you guys are coming from, but the legal system doesn't look at things that way Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Tools can be replaced. So can the thieving POS population... I have zero sympathy for thieves and vandals, whatever fate befalls them in their endeavours... The welfare state will promptly breed more. I understand where you guys are coming from, but the legal system doesn't look at things that way But a SC jury probably will... |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:45:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But a SC jury probably will... Hopefully you'll never have to worry about taking that crap shoot |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:46:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Put me on the jury. Not guilty.
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:51:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You cant shoot someone running away just because they stole something from you unless you can articulate that person was a deadly threat to others. Even though he wasnt an officer Tennessee v. Garner should apply here. Sucks to be that guy. from the article "Two firearms were reported stolen earlier from a vehicle at Methe’s residence, the sheriff’s office said." Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/news/local/article60220116.html#storylink=cpy I would believe that the shooter would think that the thief in this instance was probably armed with one or both of the stolen firearms, and the thief was certainly a threat to life and limb of the victim. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:52:40 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand where you guys are coming from, but the legal system doesn't look at things that way Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Tools can be replaced. So can the thieving POS population... I have zero sympathy for thieves and vandals, whatever fate befalls them in their endeavours... The welfare state will promptly breed more. I understand where you guys are coming from, but the legal system doesn't look at things that way Correct, this just illustrates how far the legal system is from where the producer class is more and more thinking it should be. You have to admit that the distinct possibility of death or serious injury sanctioned by law would have a certain deterrent effect. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:52:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He is not a threat of the sort that justifies the use of deadly force. That level of threat requires that you or a third party be in imminent danger of death or serious physical injury Larceny alone doesn't cut it Tools can be replaced. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He is stealing the tools and equipment I use to feed my family. He is most definitely a threat. He is not a threat of the sort that justifies the use of deadly force. That level of threat requires that you or a third party be in imminent danger of death or serious physical injury Larceny alone doesn't cut it Tools can be replaced. Fuck that. Death is an on the job risk for thieves. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:54:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I was staying in Miami, a homeowner shot a thief who was trying to make off with his weed whacker. Thief was almost to the fence when he got deaded. No charges for the homeowner. May not be the best plan but, nobody around here has any sympathy for a thief. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Don't shoot people who aren't a threat to you and life is much simpler. When I was staying in Miami, a homeowner shot a thief who was trying to make off with his weed whacker. Thief was almost to the fence when he got deaded. No charges for the homeowner. May not be the best plan but, nobody around here has any sympathy for a thief. Don't mistake my post for sympathy for a thief. There was none implied. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:56:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have to admit that the distinct possibility of death or serious injury sanctioned by law would have a certain deterrent effect. Maybe somewhat, but you're running up against a group of people whose mindset is that they aren't going to be caught If you thought you were dealing with rational people who think these sorts of things though, you aren't. A rational person wouldn't ingest some of the stuff they concoct on stovetops and brew in old soda bottles, but they do. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 3:00:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He turned when I shot Just Google Joe Horn he shot two guys running from his neighbors house killing both of them. NO BILL
In my house , if I get a clear shot it is over. In the back , in the face, in the ass , don't matter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Learn how to get between the thief and the exit. He turned when I shot Just Google Joe Horn he shot two guys running from his neighbors house killing both of them. NO BILL
In my house , if I get a clear shot it is over. In the back , in the face, in the ass , don't matter. At the time Joe was in the news the house next door was for sale. I sent Joe's attorney an email offering to help him buy it. I'd love to have him as a neighbor. Never heard back. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 3:07:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe somewhat, but you're running up against a group of people whose mindset is that they aren't going to be caught If you thought you were dealing with rational people who think these sorts of things though, you aren't. A rational person wouldn't ingest some of the stuff they concoct on stovetops and brew in old soda bottles, but they do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You have to admit that the distinct possibility of death or serious injury sanctioned by law would have a certain deterrent effect. Maybe somewhat, but you're running up against a group of people whose mindset is that they aren't going to be caught If you thought you were dealing with rational people who think these sorts of things though, you aren't. A rational person wouldn't ingest some of the stuff they concoct on stovetops and brew in old soda bottles, but they do. 
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Posted: 2/16/2016 3:29:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe somewhat, but you're running up against a group of people whose mindset is that they aren't going to be caught If you thought you were dealing with rational people who think these sorts of things though, you aren't. A rational person wouldn't ingest some of the stuff they concoct on stovetops and brew in old soda bottles, but they do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You have to admit that the distinct possibility of death or serious injury sanctioned by law would have a certain deterrent effect. Maybe somewhat, but you're running up against a group of people whose mindset is that they aren't going to be caught If you thought you were dealing with rational people who think these sorts of things though, you aren't. A rational person wouldn't ingest some of the stuff they concoct on stovetops and brew in old soda bottles, but they do. Well, either way, recidivism would go way down. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 3:34:32 PM EDT
[#45]
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you can you deadly force in Florida to stop a felony Operative word being "stop." I don't think it's retroactive. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 3:39:21 PM EDT
[#46]
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More than likely, he will walk if it goes to trial. No one here gives two shits if a fleeing thief is killed. As it should be. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 3:42:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is crazy how much cultural ideology plays into use of force. I'm positive you could find 12 jurors, a judge and a prosecutor to agree "some people just need killing" would be a valid defense in parts of Texas. Texas allows you to shoot people in defense of property in some circumstances. Only state that does actually. I'm not surprised this guy was charged. Not that I really give a fuck about the thief, but shooting him was a poor decision. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 3:43:23 PM EDT
[#48]
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Truly surprised by the DA on this one. GD wouldn't know how to respond if the shooter was a cop - do we hate thieves or cops acting as Judge Dred more....... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Antioch Carjacking victim shoots suspect as he drives away For info, we would fry, as in fire, a cop for doing this. Truly surprised by the DA on this one. GD wouldn't know how to respond if the shooter was a cop - do we hate thieves or cops acting as Judge Dred more....... I'd respond the same way - bad shoot (legally), good charge, but not many fucks given for the recipient of the gunfire irrespective of that. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 3:43:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You cant shoot someone running away just because they stole something from you unless you can articulate that person was a deadly threat to others. Even though he wasnt an officer Tennessee v. Garner should apply here. Sucks to be that guy. In his state. In my state I can smoke 'em to get my property back (if I don't see any other way). At night. Which this was. |
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Posted: 2/16/2016 3:47:00 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forgot about that statute... Funny, they don't cover this in the CWP class. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This was posted on another forum: SECTION 17-13-10. Circumstances when any person may arrest a felon or thief. Upon (a) view of a felony committed, (b) certain information that a felony has been committed or (c) view of a larceny committed, any person may arrest the felon or thief and take him to a judge or magistrate, to be dealt with according to law. HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 17-251; 1952 Code Section 17-251; 1942 Code Section 907; 1932 Code Section 907; Cr. P. '22 Section 1; Cr. C. '12 Section 1; Cr. C. '02 Section 1; G. S. 2616; R. S. 1; 1866 (13) 406; 1898 (22) 809. SECTION 17-13-20. Additional circumstances when citizens may arrest; means to be used. A citizen may arrest a person in the nighttime by efficient means as the darkness and the probability of escape render necessary, even if the life of the person should be taken, when the person: (a) has committed a felony; (b) has entered a dwelling house without express or implied permission; (c) has broken or is breaking into an outhouse with a view to plunder; (d) has in his possession stolen property; or (e) being under circumstances which raise just suspicion of his design to steal or to commit some felony, flees when he is hailed. http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t17c013.php Forgot about that statute... Funny, they don't cover this in the CWP class. Probably because it has almost nothing to do with shooting people? Anyone can make a common law arrest in my state for any felony or "breach of the peace." I can arrest you for DUI myself, for example, as there is an appellate case that says it's a breach of the peace. That does NOT mean, necessarily, that I can shoot you to effect that arrest. If I'm lawfully arresting you and you then do things that justify shooting you, separate and apart from the arrest, then yes. Otherwise, no. I see the part about "even if his life shall be taken" but that's kind of vague - I don't read it as giving carte blanche to shoot anyone who fits the definitions, rather I think it means you can use any means necessary to effect the arrest, including deadly force IF that is necessary. Not just because you've checked the boxes, but because there is no other way to do it or you meet resistance sufficient to justify it. All that said ... don't try this unless there is a REALLY good reason. |
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