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Posted: 2/12/2016 5:53:46 PM EDT
[#1]
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That's my position as well. Limit Government-backed college loans to students studying for STEM degrees only. Want to major in Lesbian Literature? Get some rich parents, or try to convince your bank's loan officer that you'll be able to repay an $80,000 loan by selling bracelets at arts & crafts fairs after you graduate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Parents got enough $$$ to fully pay your way through college? Then go pursue your women's art history of the 1600's liberal art degree. Want financial aid & government loans? Then you'll have to major in a degree that's actively needed by employers. Don't want to pursue one of those degrees? Fine, go learn a tradeskill. Everybody wins. Except most college's liberal arts departments. That's my position as well. Limit Government-backed college loans to students studying for STEM degrees only. Want to major in Lesbian Literature? Get some rich parents, or try to convince your bank's loan officer that you'll be able to repay an $80,000 loan by selling bracelets at arts & crafts fairs after you graduate. The government likes those degrees because those people become good little liberals and keep perpetuating the system. 
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:07:02 PM EDT
[#2]
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Wouldn't you then dilute the market with hard science degrees? The OP was arguing for a market based system. If you choose one static set of fields then the payout for those degrees will eventually start to decrease. The idea that hard sciences are somehow immune to market pressure is fucking retarded, but somehow keeps on getting implicitly argued. Maybe some soft sciencey economics is in order.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yep loans for hard sciences, if you want to major in easy useless shit then pay for it. Wouldn't you then dilute the market with hard science degrees? The OP was arguing for a market based system. If you choose one static set of fields then the payout for those degrees will eventually start to decrease. The idea that hard sciences are somehow immune to market pressure is fucking retarded, but somehow keeps on getting implicitly argued. Maybe some soft sciencey economics is in order. No because most don't have the work ethic to obtain one. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:11:02 PM EDT
[#3]
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No because most don't have the work ethic to obtain one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yep loans for hard sciences, if you want to major in easy useless shit then pay for it. Wouldn't you then dilute the market with hard science degrees? The OP was arguing for a market based system. If you choose one static set of fields then the payout for those degrees will eventually start to decrease. The idea that hard sciences are somehow immune to market pressure is fucking retarded, but somehow keeps on getting implicitly argued. Maybe some soft sciencey economics is in order. No because most don't have the work ethic to obtain one. 
Somehow I don't think you understand how markets work.
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:20:27 PM EDT
[#4]
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everyone wants to point to europe, and how they have " free college"....... and " free healthcare"... they somehow leave out gas costing $10.00 a gallon ( due to added " taxes" to pay for free shit) , and huge income taxes.... plus VAT taxes on everything... luxury item taxes, etc. And that only the top 15-20% of high school students qualify. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:21:45 PM EDT
[#5]
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Somehow I don't think you understand how markets work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yep loans for hard sciences, if you want to major in easy useless shit then pay for it. Wouldn't you then dilute the market with hard science degrees? The OP was arguing for a market based system. If you choose one static set of fields then the payout for those degrees will eventually start to decrease. The idea that hard sciences are somehow immune to market pressure is fucking retarded, but somehow keeps on getting implicitly argued. Maybe some soft sciencey economics is in order. No because most don't have the work ethic to obtain one.
Somehow I don't think you understand how markets work. Somehow I don't think you understand that most don't go into STEM fields because math and science seems to hard for them. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:31:02 PM EDT
[#6]
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Somehow I don't think you understand that most don't go into STEM fields because math and science seems to hard for them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yep loans for hard sciences, if you want to major in easy useless shit then pay for it. Wouldn't you then dilute the market with hard science degrees? The OP was arguing for a market based system. If you choose one static set of fields then the payout for those degrees will eventually start to decrease. The idea that hard sciences are somehow immune to market pressure is fucking retarded, but somehow keeps on getting implicitly argued. Maybe some soft sciencey economics is in order. No because most don't have the work ethic to obtain one.
Somehow I don't think you understand how markets work. Somehow I don't think you understand that most don't go into STEM fields because math and science seems to hard for them. I do actually, and I also understand that your premise is filled with erroneous assumptions and faulty logic. Those that choose not to go into STEM fields are not only those who cannot do the required math or put in the required work. If you only allow for financial aid in the form of loans to those fields then you will give an incentive to increase the pool of people who go into STEM fields, and thereby increasing the supply to the market. By your logic there should not be an oversupply of PhDs since its intensely difficult degree to obtain, yet there is are far too many PhDs for the market to currently sustain. The same applies to JDs. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:34:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryBy your logic there should not be an oversupply of PhDs since its intensely difficult degree to obtain, yet there is are far too many PhDs for the market to currently sustain. The same applies to JDs. LOL what's your major? BTW look at the labor statistics and see which jobs pay well
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:53:47 PM EDT
[#8]
As much as I'd like the govt out of the education business, it's just not going to happen.
If I was a Republican POTUS candidate, I'd pitch "free college" too, but after I was elected, to pay for it, the catch would be that for every $10K you received, your tax rate goes up 1% from the day you graduate until you turn 65. For example, upon graduation, if you fall into the 15% tax bracket, and borrowed $100K for college, your tax rate is now 25%. Now there is no student loan debt, but the people that used it get to fund it and people would think twice about pursuing a gender studies degree. The added bonus is that the IRS will be the one collecting. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 6:56:29 PM EDT
[#9]
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Ending guaranteed student loans and making them dischargeable in bankruptcy will do this overnight. THIS It would also bring down the cost of education. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 7:14:09 PM EDT
[#10]
If the Universities love the loans so much, let them use their endowments to make them, or at a very minimum act as the intermediary for the loans. They'll naturally want to have students that go on to get jobs so they can keep their money coming. If the student bails, it's on the university. That'll teach them to pick better.
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Posted: 2/12/2016 7:59:42 PM EDT
[#11]
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LOL what's your major? BTW look at the labor statistics and see which jobs pay well
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By your logic there should not be an oversupply of PhDs since its intensely difficult degree to obtain, yet there is are far too many PhDs for the market to currently sustain. The same applies to JDs. LOL what's your major? BTW look at the labor statistics and see which jobs pay well
How are current labor statistics relevant? I am arguing about the affect on the future labor market. |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 9:29:43 PM EDT
[#12]
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How are current labor statistics relevant? I am arguing about the affect on the future labor market. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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By your logic there should not be an oversupply of PhDs since its intensely difficult degree to obtain, yet there is are far too many PhDs for the market to currently sustain. The same applies to JDs. LOL what's your major? BTW look at the labor statistics and see which jobs pay well
How are current labor statistics relevant? I am arguing about the affect on the future labor market. The best predictor of the future is the past
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Posted: 2/13/2016 2:50:15 AM EDT
[#13]
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That is what a lot people don't understand. A STEM degree is not a blank check for a high paying job. My first job after college (I got a BS in Biology) paid $12/hour (entry level wildlife biologist). It took several years, getting a Masters degree (Ag & Natural Resources Management), and proving myself before I started making good money. A STEM degree will be more useful that the "women studies" degree but it is not golden key to a good paying job. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Parents got enough $$$ to fully pay your way through college? Then go pursue your women's art history of the 1600's liberal art degree. Want financial aid & government loans? Then you'll have to major in a degree that's actively needed by employers. Don't want to pursue one of those degrees? Fine, go learn a tradeskill. Everybody wins. Except most college's liberal arts departments. That's my position as well. Limit Government-backed college loans to students studying for STEM degrees only. Want to major in Lesbian Literature? Get some rich parents, or try to convince your bank's loan officer that you'll be able to repay an $80,000 loan by selling bracelets at arts & crafts fairs after you graduate. A STEM degree doesn't guarantee you a job. There have been many years where engineering degrees sucked as far as job placement went. A BS in biology might get you a lab tech job. An Animal Science degree will get you a temp job in a greenhouse working for Pioneer. The IT world has been up, down and sideways so many times in the last twenty years I don't know why anyone would dream of going into it. I work for a university that cranks out a lot of STEM degrees. They help but they aren't a panacea. That is what a lot people don't understand. A STEM degree is not a blank check for a high paying job. My first job after college (I got a BS in Biology) paid $12/hour (entry level wildlife biologist). It took several years, getting a Masters degree (Ag & Natural Resources Management), and proving myself before I started making good money. A STEM degree will be more useful that the "women studies" degree but it is not golden key to a good paying job. I'm in the same boat currently. I'm pursuing two BA's in Wildlife and Range Management. But I am also aware that I need my Masters to get a biologist position (which is where i want to end up) that MIGHT pay $40,000 a year. STEM degrees make getting a career easier but it is not a free ticket to a high paying job. I am also going to graduate with no student loans, so I will not be in the hole starting out. (Luckily) |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 3:34:15 AM EDT
[#14]
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Define what is "in demand" Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah TL;DR. Who defines what's in demand? The job market. Just like any other loan: they look at your anticipated ability to pay and set amount loaned and interest rate accordingly. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:10:44 AM EDT
[#15]
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The best predictor of the future is the past Quote HistoryQuoted:
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By your logic there should not be an oversupply of PhDs since its intensely difficult degree to obtain, yet there is are far too many PhDs for the market to currently sustain. The same applies to JDs. LOL what's your major? BTW look at the labor statistics and see which jobs pay well
How are current labor statistics relevant? I am arguing about the affect on the future labor market. The best predictor of the future is the past Nice tautology but that is analytically bullshit. Are you saying that market conditions don't change, especially if you change how college tuition is funded? I guess I should go out and buy some shares of Sears, because based upon its historical performance it's an awesome company. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:14:24 AM EDT
[#16]
Better idea - end financial aid & government assistance.
If you want the government to pick up the tab, then enlist & earn it - otherwise pay for your own shit. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:29:29 AM EDT
[#17]
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I'm almost afraid to ask, but is that actually a real degree at an accredited school? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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... a BA/Masters degree in Phallic Art. I'm almost afraid to ask, but is that actually a real degree at an accredited school? No idea. Probably is at some weird SF "art school". 
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:48:44 AM EDT
[#18]
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Define what is "in demand" Doing that is just about impossible and fluctuates greatly and regionally (sometimes within a state). How about this... Occupational Outlook Handbook It's not rocket surgery. Jobs that are in demand, that require college (be it a trade school or university) get the super low or zero interest rates. If the degree is in high enough of demand, heavily subsidize tuition and fees to keep from having a national workforce shortage in that field. Drop out or fail to graduate with the degree sought (IE last minute major change to a dead language studies degree in an attempt to game the system), then you pay it all back at standard rates. Those degrees not in demand are cash up front/pay as you go. In other words, no loans of any kind allowed. There are too many financial institutions that have been left holding the bag. Also too many young Americans that were sold the lie that a degree in underwater basket weaving would have them earning a "living wage" in no time at all. While I agree that it is currently difficult to predict what will be in demand, I think that if you provided a uniform method for companies to report personnel educational needs and projected growth it wouldn't take too long to figure out where higher education needs to focus. ETA... 
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Posted: 2/13/2016 4:55:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has it's own major issue - namely that people will get a degree and declare bankruptcy right out of college. Doesn't cause that much harm to declare bankruptcy when you have few assets and aren't going to make major financial investments in the near future. Seems like it'd lead to the availability of student loans almost going away, which too far in the other direction. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ending guaranteed student loans and making them dischargeable in bankruptcy will do this overnight. Has it's own major issue - namely that people will get a degree and declare bankruptcy right out of college. Doesn't cause that much harm to declare bankruptcy when you have few assets and aren't going to make major financial investments in the near future. Seems like it'd lead to the availability of student loans almost going away, which too far in the other direction. This was actually pretty common practice before the adoption of the bankruptcy code in the late 70's. Now, under the current code, there are circumstances that are "presumed abuse" per bankruptcy code. Make this one of them. The presumption of abuse is rebuttable, but it's up to the party to offer evidence to rebut the presumption. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 5:21:52 AM EDT
[#20]
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So for us people that already work and want to get a higher education, I should be limited with financial assistance because it isn't an "in demand" degree? 
Not everyone who is in college is 18-22 y/o age group. Many of us work full time but don't make enough to pay the outrageous cost of tuition and books each semester. No way in hell I could save up $100k to complete my future Executive MBA. Where the hell are you going to go that an MBA costs 100k? I'm finishing an MSIA at a total cost of about 25k, and I've spent pretty much the cost of books, because my employer pays for my schooling. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 6:05:49 AM EDT
[#21]
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Parents got enough $$$ to fully pay your way through college? Then go pursue your women's art history of the 1600's liberal art degree. Want financial aid & government loans? Then you'll have to major in a degree that's actively needed by employers. Don't want to pursue one of those degrees? Fine, go learn a tradeskill. Everybody wins. Except most college's liberal arts departments. First of all, "women's studies" and similar filth are not liberal arts. Liberal arts are things like math, philosophy, political theory, history, language, and such. Secondly, tying a university education to a vocation shows that you miss the point of education, which is not to get vocational training. It's about improving the individual through acquisition of knowledge and benefiting society by maintaining a base of knowledge and using the base to expand and refine it. The liberal arts are crucial to having a sound education and represent topics that are important to having a civil and functioning government and society. A liberal education also prepares a man to live in a free society. Thirdly, the reduction in qualities of educations is driven to a large extent not just by the idea of university as vocational training and "college for all," but also by the government subsidizing education and providing loans. On top of this, such policies also drive up the prices, so you end up paying more for less. What you suggest will enhance the detrimental effects of such ideas and on state intervention on education. It is of interest that Marxist ideology drove the Soviet Union to deemphasize the liberal arts and certain sciences in favour of applied sciences like engineering or hard sciences that did not leave room for the promulgation of ideas contrary to such ideologies. Fourthly, government subsidizing of education and related acts are in principle wrong, and certainly not the proper realm of a limited government, especially the central government, and is at the latter level not authorized by the constitution. So your idea is a bad idea, and we in fact lose as a society. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 6:16:35 AM EDT
[#22]
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Better idea: no loans, no grants from fedgov. I do not see "fund someone's education" as a delegated function at the federal level in the Constitution. Can anyone point it out to me? Yep, that should be what we do, plus no special status for student loans in the private sector. I'm okay with military scholarships, though, so long as they come in exchange for service like is currently the case. At the state level, outside of merit-based scholarships to state universities or scholarships in exchange for service, there shouldn't be anything at that level, either. I'm actually skeptical of state educational institutions in general. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 6:19:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Problem with this theory is that the people making the decisions as to what degrees matter probably have degrees that don't matter. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 6:22:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Parents got enough $$$ to fully pay your way through college? Then go pursue your women's art history of the 1600's liberal art degree. Want financial aid & government loans? Then you'll have to major in a degree that's actively needed by employers. Don't want to pursue one of those degrees? Fine, go learn a tradeskill. Everybody wins. Except most college's liberal arts departments. Yeah, more government influence, that should work out well for us. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 6:23:55 AM EDT
[#25]
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Problem with this theory is that the people making the decisions as to what degrees matter probably have degrees that don't matter. By what criteria are we determining what degrees matter? Purely economic or materialistic ones? If so, that's a silly and even destructive notion. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 6:52:59 AM EDT
[#26]
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Has it's own major issue - namely that people will get a degree and declare bankruptcy right out of college. Doesn't cause that much harm to declare bankruptcy when you have few assets and aren't going to make major financial investments in the near future. Seems like it'd lead to the availability of student loans almost going away, which too far in the other direction. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ending guaranteed student loans and making them dischargeable in bankruptcy will do this overnight. Has it's own major issue - namely that people will get a degree and declare bankruptcy right out of college. Doesn't cause that much harm to declare bankruptcy when you have few assets and aren't going to make major financial investments in the near future. Seems like it'd lead to the availability of student loans almost going away, which too far in the other direction. Perhaps. But I'd wager that just ending the gov guaranteed loan gravy train would go an awfully long way towards putting downward pressure on the cost of college educations. If the money is available, someone will try to extract as much as possible for as little as possible in return. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 8:38:15 AM EDT
[#27]
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So basically you want the government deciding who goes to college and what degree they get. Yeah, more government influence, that should work out well for us. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Parents got enough $$$ to fully pay your way through college? Then go pursue your women's art history of the 1600's liberal art degree. Want financial aid & government loans? Then you'll have to major in a degree that's actively needed by employers. Don't want to pursue one of those degrees? Fine, go learn a tradeskill. Everybody wins. Except most college's liberal arts departments. Yeah, more government influence, that should work out well for us. No, we don't want the government deciding who goes to college...which is any/everyone regardless of future earning potential...which is how it currently is. Just like the housing market where the government forced lenders to give loans to people who didn't have the ability to pay for the houses they wanted. Less (zero, actually) government involvement is the solution. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 8:50:05 AM EDT
[#28]
Nobody would be making any determination as to which degrees "matter."
Every/anyone would be free to pursue any degree they'd like...they just have to pay for it themselves or find someone (like a private institution) that is willing to do so. School loan problem solved...or should I say re-solved since this is how it used to be. Oh, wait, what am I thinking??? That's not fair in today's every little snowflake is special world. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 10:45:31 AM EDT
[#29]
America quite majoring in easy shit and put some effort in hard sciences and then we won't need H1b's to fill the technology roles.
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Posted: 2/13/2016 10:50:41 AM EDT
[#30]
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Ending guaranteed student loans and making them dischargeable in bankruptcy will do this overnight. FPNI. Nothing a little free market can't fix. There are a lot of parallels between the student loan situation and the housing crisis, the main difference is that the market had the ability to correct itself. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 10:52:26 AM EDT
[#31]
With the Obama Economy we would have no student loans, as no one is in demand.
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Posted: 2/13/2016 10:57:28 AM EDT
[#32]
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America quite majoring in easy shit and put some effort in hard sciences and then we won't need H1b's to fill the technology roles. Not everything outside of science is "easy shit," at least not at a university worth a damn. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:01:00 AM EDT
[#33]
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America quite majoring in easy shit and put some effort in hard sciences and then we won't need H1b's to fill the technology roles. you have that backwards. when companies don't pay significantly more for hard degrees and can undercut the market by cheap imports subsidized by the government, this is what happens. If engineers made significantly more there would be more engineers. if you had studied economics instead of statics you would understand this. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:02:58 AM EDT
[#34]
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Not everything outside of science is "easy shit," at least not at a university worth a damn. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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America quite majoring in easy shit and put some effort in hard sciences and then we won't need H1b's to fill the technology roles. Not everything outside of science is "easy shit," at least not at a university worth a damn. He's an idiot. He even thinks that there aren't Americans who are employable in the tech field!
He just doesn't understand how management thinks, the poor sap. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:03:25 AM EDT
[#35]
In my day, law students, med students, dental students had larger loan amounts available than other students. Simple fact .....those professions had a greater likelihood of being able to pay back higher amounts. Made sense.
It was deemed unfair. Why should dentists get more cash that African women studies graduates. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:05:28 AM EDT
[#36]
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you have that backwards. when companies don't pay significantly more for hard degrees and can undercut the market by cheap imports subsidized by the government, this is what happens. If engineers made significantly more there would be more engineers. if you had studied economics instead of statics you would understand this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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America quite majoring in easy shit and put some effort in hard sciences and then we won't need H1b's to fill the technology roles. you have that backwards. when companies don't pay significantly more for hard degrees and can undercut the market by cheap imports subsidized by the government, this is what happens. If engineers made significantly more there would be more engineers. if you had studied economics instead of statics you would understand this. Statics? Do you perhaps mean "statistics"? Perhaps you should have put a bit more effort into that liberal art known as "spelling"! 
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:06:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or end govt. student loans and make people get a private loan? Won't matter anyway if Bernie gets elected. Every tax payer will be footing the bill for some dumbass getting a BA/Masters degree in Phallic Art. Supporters of Bernie are similar to the supporters of $15 min wage - they are too stupid to realize they are signing their own pink slips. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:06:27 AM EDT
[#38]
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Not everything outside of science is "easy shit," at least not at a university worth a damn. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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America quite majoring in easy shit and put some effort in hard sciences and then we won't need H1b's to fill the technology roles. Not everything outside of science is "easy shit," at least not at a university worth a damn. As someone that has has two STEM degrees and two behavior degrees from reputable state schools I will say that non STEM degrees are always going to be easier than STEM degrees. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:07:00 AM EDT
[#39]
No, get government out of our lives as much as possible. Stop trying to social engineer what people "should" do with their lives via sticks and carrots from Congress. Leave us the fuck alone.
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:07:39 AM EDT
[#40]
If you really want to help the country and you're really hell bent on free college, make the trade schools free or heavily subsidize them.
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:08:04 AM EDT
[#41]
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you have that backwards. when companies don't pay significantly more for hard degrees and can undercut the market by cheap imports subsidized by the government, this is what happens. If engineers made significantly more there would be more engineers. if you had studied economics instead of statics you would understand this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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America quite majoring in easy shit and put some effort in hard sciences and then we won't need H1b's to fill the technology roles. you have that backwards. when companies don't pay significantly more for hard degrees and can undercut the market by cheap imports subsidized by the government, this is what happens. If engineers made significantly more there would be more engineers. if you had studied economics instead of statics you would understand this. Most H1B's are making bank, it's sad that Americans are to lazy to go through the hard work to do the same. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:08:39 AM EDT
[#42]
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He's an idiot. He even thinks that there aren't Americans who are employable in the tech field!
He just doesn't understand how management thinks, the poor sap. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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America quite majoring in easy shit and put some effort in hard sciences and then we won't need H1b's to fill the technology roles. Not everything outside of science is "easy shit," at least not at a university worth a damn. He's an idiot. He even thinks that there aren't Americans who are employable in the tech field!
He just doesn't understand how management thinks, the poor sap. I am management in that field brainiac 
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:17:56 AM EDT
[#43]
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Statics? Do you perhaps mean "statistics"? Perhaps you should have put a bit more effort into that liberal art known as "spelling"! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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America quite majoring in easy shit and put some effort in hard sciences and then we won't need H1b's to fill the technology roles. you have that backwards. when companies don't pay significantly more for hard degrees and can undercut the market by cheap imports subsidized by the government, this is what happens. If engineers made significantly more there would be more engineers. if you had studied economics instead of statics you would understand this. Statics? Do you perhaps mean "statistics"? Perhaps you should have put a bit more effort into that liberal art known as "spelling"! Statics-the branch of mechanics concerned with bodies at rest and forces in equilibrium. Its an engineering thing. You should really google shit before you highlight how an 8th grade education really doesn't prepare you for life, or even for a conversation in GD. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:20:21 AM EDT
[#44]
In my day, law students, med students, dental students had larger loan amounts available than other students. Simple fact .....those professions had a greater likelihood of being able to pay back higher amounts. Made sense.
It was deemed unfair. Why should dentists get more cash that African women studies graduates. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:21:02 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most H1B's are making bank, it's sad that Americans are to lazy to go through the hard work to do the same. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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America quite majoring in easy shit and put some effort in hard sciences and then we won't need H1b's to fill the technology roles. you have that backwards. when companies don't pay significantly more for hard degrees and can undercut the market by cheap imports subsidized by the government, this is what happens. If engineers made significantly more there would be more engineers. if you had studied economics instead of statics you would understand this. Most H1B's are making bank, it's sad that Americans are to lazy to go through the hard work to do the same. point stands. Its a market distortion. Engineers make less than lawyers, and law, while a longer degree, is probably the easier degree. NOt to mention the fact that, long term, lawyers can make A LOT more than an engineer. starting engineers make good money. engineers with 20 years make very little (comparatively speaking) more than starting engineers mostly because once an engineer gets mouthy, they fire his ass and bring in habib from cairo's school of engineering and donkey husbandry. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:33:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
everyone wants to point to europe, and how they have " free college"....... and " free healthcare"... they somehow leave out gas costing $10.00 a gallon ( due to added " taxes" to pay for free shit) , and huge income taxes.... plus VAT taxes on everything... luxury item taxes, etc. Additionally, countries like Germany are VERY different on WHO goes to college. Unversity bound or vocational bound tracts for students is decided at a much earlier age and once a kid is on their tract......the wheels are in motion and it is very difficult to change lanes. It is very unforgiving. Kids know at the end of JR high if they are university bound. This a completely different system than we have in the US. In the US, kids can fuck up all the way through HS.....and if they pull their head out of their ass.....they can still do whatever the hell they want. Hell, folks can dilly-dally, change gears, etc for years before they decide what they want to do. That does not fly in Europe. And......there is NO way we would ever institute such a system, cause ? You guessed it.......it would be racist. The kids coming form shittier HS's wouldn't have a fricking chance. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:34:36 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
point stands. Its a market distortion. Engineers make less than lawyers, and law, while a longer degree, is probably the easier degree. NOt to mention the fact that, long term, lawyers can make A LOT more than an engineer. starting engineers make good money. engineers with 20 years make very little (comparatively speaking) more than starting engineers mostly because once an engineer gets mouthy, they fire his ass and bring in habib from cairo's school of engineering and donkey husbandry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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America quite majoring in easy shit and put some effort in hard sciences and then we won't need H1b's to fill the technology roles. you have that backwards. when companies don't pay significantly more for hard degrees and can undercut the market by cheap imports subsidized by the government, this is what happens. If engineers made significantly more there would be more engineers. if you had studied economics instead of statics you would understand this. Most H1B's are making bank, it's sad that Americans are to lazy to go through the hard work to do the same. point stands. Its a market distortion. Engineers make less than lawyers, and law, while a longer degree, is probably the easier degree. NOt to mention the fact that, long term, lawyers can make A LOT more than an engineer. starting engineers make good money. engineers with 20 years make very little (comparatively speaking) more than starting engineers mostly because once an engineer gets mouthy, they fire his ass and bring in habib from cairo's school of engineering and donkey husbandry. The market for lawyers hasn't been great for many years and I personally know multiple lawyers that make less than 80k a year. Also look at the job openings for lawyers compared to engineers, many new lawyers are working as legal secretaries. As for the education, you are comparing 6-8 years of college/law school to most usually a 4 years of college. STEM is hard to beat no matter what comparison someone wants to throw out there
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:36:17 AM EDT
[#48]
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And that only the top 15-20% of high school students qualify. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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everyone wants to point to europe, and how they have " free college"....... and " free healthcare"... they somehow leave out gas costing $10.00 a gallon ( due to added " taxes" to pay for free shit) , and huge income taxes.... plus VAT taxes on everything... luxury item taxes, etc. And that only the top 15-20% of high school students qualify. Beat me to it. And........I wonder if there would be a component to that little tidbit of a statistic that could be exploited as racist? Hmmm? |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:37:36 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ending guaranteed student loans and making them dischargeable in bankruptcy will do this overnight. FPNI The government taking over student loans was one of the worst ideas ever. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 11:39:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Beat me to it. And........I wonder if there would be a racist component to that little tidbit of a statistic that could be exploited as racist? Hmmm? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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everyone wants to point to europe, and how they have " free college"....... and " free healthcare"... they somehow leave out gas costing $10.00 a gallon ( due to added " taxes" to pay for free shit) , and huge income taxes.... plus VAT taxes on everything... luxury item taxes, etc. And that only the top 15-20% of high school students qualify. Beat me to it. And........I wonder if there would be a racist component to that little tidbit of a statistic that could be exploited as racist? Hmmm? I fully agree, not everyone should have the option to go to college. As someone that instructs a few college classes a year I would say that roughly 70 percent of the students have no business going. |
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