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Posted: 2/10/2016 10:38:24 PM EDT
[#1]
I sold guns at Academy Sports during college.
One guy came in and bought a stainless Beretta 92 and promptly went to his car and shot himself in the head. Some poor soccer mom heard/saw it. As to your original question, no idea. Probably happens, but I'm sure it happens a lot less often than liberals would like you to think. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 10:49:09 PM EDT
[#2]
Murders, no.
Suicides, yes, but not exactly common. I can think of maybe a half-dozen in 30 years. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 10:52:10 PM EDT
[#3]
According to the ATF in Texas time to crime for a gun is 3 years generally speaking.
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/143918-txatfwebsite13pdf/download |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 10:52:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I'm wondering if anyone has any info on such cases? I'm having a hard time picturing someone, who does not own a gun, boiling over with rage over a traffic incident/bad phone call/etc., driving to a gun store, picking out a gun and ammo, filling out a 4473, waiting for the NICS check, paying for the stuff, driving over to that person, and then killing them in a fit of rage. I'm having a hard time picturing it, even without a background check. Basically, I don't see the premise behind waiting periods happening, or being all that common. They would not stop a crime of passion. Some law enforcement agencies have tracked a "time to crime" for a gun. Some of them are incredibly short, which leads to the idea that some are purchased for that purpose. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 10:58:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I sold guns at Academy Sports during college. One guy came in and bought a stainless Beretta 92 and promptly went to his car and shot himself in the head. Some poor soccer mom heard/saw it. As to your original question, no idea. Probably happens, but I'm sure it happens a lot less often than liberals would like you to think. Same experience in college. Worked at a Gun shop in Middle Tennessee. Elderly man came in and requested a pistol for home defense. Helped him for an hour as he held different ones. He settled on a gently used S&W .38 revolved with a 5" barrel (model escapes me). Helped him fill out his 4473 as we laughed and joked. He bought one box of Atlanta Arms 125 grain Target loads. He left a sporterized Mosin Nagant for us to appraise and think about buying. A day later Murfreesboro PD calls me asking about him, if he seemed off or anything. I told him he was normal as could be, happy, joking around, all around normal. They then told me an hour after going home that night, he told his wife he had a headache and was going to take a nap. Laid down in the floor next to his bed and blew his brains out. That was rough. What was rougher was talking to his daughter when she came into retrieve his rifle from me. He wasn't sick, no cancer, no history of mental illness, no family problems. It was odd. The gunsmith I was working with said it had happened to him six or so times. He'd fixed folks guns perfectly on thier request and they'd go off themselves the next afternoon with them. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:08:18 PM EDT
[#6]
I know of one.
A woman came in to a local shop. Well mannered, well dressed. Guy I know helped her, taught her how to use it, everything important. Good service, nice lady. She came back after the waiting period, picked up her firearm and killed her family. I don't remember if she killed herself. It was at Christmas time. He was messed up about it. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:09:54 PM EDT
[#7]
This is from memory. I recall seeing a story about a guy who went to bass pro bought a pistol and some ammo and went to his apartment and shot his girlfriend, his kid and I believe someone else. I believe the police killed him. I'll look for the article
edit here is the article in the liberal daily rag. Article says he bought the gun one hour before here |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:10:46 PM EDT
[#8]
I sold a guy a pistol years ago at work
On the drive home he sees his Ex's new man walking along the street He chased him and shot at him for awhile while his passenger reloaded mag for him |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:18:58 PM EDT
[#9]
One happened near here
Here is a link to Google with a bunch of articles on it. https://www.google.com/search?q=bullzeye+homicide+suicide&oq=bullzeye+homicide+suicide&aqs=chrome..69i57.14101j0j4&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=bullzeye+shooting+sports+double+murder+suicide |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:22:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I sold a guy a pistol years ago at work On the drive home he sees his Ex's new man walking along the street He chased him and shot at him for awhile while his passenger reloaded mag for him How's the saying go? A good friend will help you move a couch, a great friend will help you load mags while you chase down and shoot the guy porking your wife? |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 11:38:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to the ATF in Texas time to crime for a gun is 3 years generally speaking. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/143918-txatfwebsite13pdf/download If that is true then the time to crime for guns used in a crime would be minutes, hours or just a few days at max. Most guns never are used in a crime and nobody can divide by infinity. Sounds like made up statistics to me. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 12:15:24 AM EDT
[#12]
i think walmart has had several cases and got sued for one. the kid was taking an antidepresant which he got the prescription from the store pharmacy and then purchased a shotgun and killed himself. walmart was sued by the parents cause they claimed walmart should of known he wasn't right in the head.
in another case if I recall, someone stopped off at walmart to by ammo and was on a crime spree. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 12:18:19 AM EDT
[#13]
It happened in Madison WI last week. Nut job went and bought a gun and went and shot a coworker.
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Posted: 2/11/2016 12:24:25 AM EDT
[#14]
I know of 1 particular incident where the guy went and bought a pistol grip mossberg and a box of 5 00buck shells. he went home, sat on the basement steps, threw a sheet over the top of his head and blew his head off... the grief stricken girlfriend he shot himself over, demanded the shotgun from the PD that handled it so she could sell it..
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Posted: 2/11/2016 12:29:10 AM EDT
[#15]
There was this case of a crazy lady that bought an insane amount of water, using it to fill a container and drown all five of her children in that water.
She could legally buy all the water she needed. And it was piped to her house. No background check, no limits. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 12:29:38 AM EDT
[#16]
Didn't some chicken rent a gun at a range and kill her son last year, in the range itself?
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Posted: 2/11/2016 12:33:43 AM EDT
[#17]
The gun and bullets did not kill, the people did.
This thread is fuel for the gun grabbers and waiting period types. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 12:52:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The gun and bullets did not kill, the people did. This thread is fuel for the gun grabbers and waiting period types. This thread isn't going how I thought it would. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 1:01:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread isn't going how I thought it would. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The gun and bullets did not kill, the people did. This thread is fuel for the gun grabbers and waiting period types. This thread isn't going how I thought it would. what is up with your avitar its creepy as shit. ( yes I am trying change the subject of this thread) |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 1:11:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that is true then the time to crime for guns used in a crime would be minutes, hours or just a few days at max. Most guns never are used in a crime and nobody can divide by infinity. Sounds like made up statistics to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
According to the ATF in Texas time to crime for a gun is 3 years generally speaking. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/143918-txatfwebsite13pdf/download If that is true then the time to crime for guns used in a crime would be minutes, hours or just a few days at max. Most guns never are used in a crime and nobody can divide by infinity. Sounds like made up statistics to me. Yeah, I've got a couple that are 50+ years and counting, but are conveniently omitted from that statistic by definition. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 9:59:07 AM EDT
[#21]
Cases of people ? How many persons in a case?
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:00:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cases of people ? How many persons in a case? at least 6 |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:07:22 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
at least 6 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cases of people ? How many persons in a case? at least 6 No, no that's all wrong, you're thinking of a 6-pack. A case has 24. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:07:57 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was this case of a crazy lady that bought an insane amount of water, using it to fill a container and drown all five of her children in that water. She could legally buy all the water she needed. And it was piped to her house. No background check, no limits. There ought to be a law! |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:10:03 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I'm wondering if anyone has any info on such cases? I'm having a hard time picturing someone, who does not own a gun, boiling over with rage over a traffic incident/bad phone call/etc., driving to a gun store, picking out a gun and ammo, filling out a 4473, waiting for the NICS check, paying for the stuff, driving over to that person, and then killing them in a fit of rage. I'm having a hard time picturing it, even without a background check. Basically, I don't see the premise behind waiting periods happening, or being all that common. They would not stop a crime of passion. Who cares? Even if it was common, it shouldn't be reason enough to infringe my rights. Punish actions, no objects |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:11:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was this case of a crazy lady that bought an insane amount of water, using it to fill a container and drown all five of her children in that water. She could legally buy all the water she needed. And it was piped to her house. No background check, no limits. Ding ding ding!! Here's the winner. Crazies are gonna kill. Waiting periods only penalize law abiding citizens. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:16:40 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was this case of a crazy lady that bought an insane amount of water, using it to fill a container and drown all five of her children in that water. She could legally buy all the water she needed. And it was piped to her house. No background check, no limits. IIRC, she drove her minivan into an unsecured lake |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:20:16 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I sold guns at Academy Sports during college. One guy came in and bought a stainless Beretta 92 and promptly went to his car and shot himself in the head. Some poor soccer mom heard/saw it. As to your original question, no idea. Probably happens, but I'm sure it happens a lot less often than liberals would like you to think. Had a guy go into the LGS/range a few years back. He rented a gun and shot himself with it. According to family he had no prior firearm experience. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:21:34 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC, she drove her minivan into an unsecured lake Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There was this case of a crazy lady that bought an insane amount of water, using it to fill a container and drown all five of her children in that water. She could legally buy all the water she needed. And it was piped to her house. No background check, no limits. IIRC, she drove her minivan into an unsecured lake City park loophole? |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:22:50 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC, she drove her minivan into an unsecured lake Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There was this case of a crazy lady that bought an insane amount of water, using it to fill a container and drown all five of her children in that water. She could legally buy all the water she needed. And it was piped to her house. No background check, no limits. IIRC, she drove her minivan into an unsecured lake Ban vehicles and lakes for the children!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:25:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was this case of a crazy lady that bought an insane amount of water, using it to fill a container and drown all five of her children in that water. She could legally buy all the water she needed. And it was piped to her house. No background check, no limits. Ban water. It's for the children. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:27:23 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread isn't going how I thought it would. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The gun and bullets did not kill, the people did. This thread is fuel for the gun grabbers and waiting period types. This thread isn't going how I thought it would. How many people go have a beer or twenty, then promptly go out and kill someone? What's that, at least 100 a month? Never hear anyone calling for cars to be banned, or alcohol. (well, a few, but not like guns). How many lives a year does alcohol save? It's not like you can make the argument that alcohol is good. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:30:52 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I've got a couple that are 50+ years and counting, but are conveniently omitted from that statistic by definition. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
According to the ATF in Texas time to crime for a gun is 3 years generally speaking. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/143918-txatfwebsite13pdf/download If that is true then the time to crime for guns used in a crime would be minutes, hours or just a few days at max. Most guns never are used in a crime and nobody can divide by infinity. Sounds like made up statistics to me. Yeah, I've got a couple that are 50+ years and counting, but are conveniently omitted from that statistic by definition. The statistic is used to measure the time line from a gun's first sale on a 4473, to the time it was used and recovered in a crime. It has nothing to do with all the guns that are never used in a crime. The national average time-to-crime is over 11 years, which means most guns used in crimes are bought/sold/stolen multiple times before getting into the hands of a criminal. It's very rare that a gun is purchased and then immediately used to commit a crime, which we can easily tell by the lack of guns with a short time-to-crime number. The few times we've had to trace guns for the ATF, it has always been a record that is 10+ years old, sometimes as many as 25+ years old. This is a good statistic for the firearm industry. A long time-to-crime number shows that current gun laws are already plenty effective. Criminals aren't buying guns legally and they're not buying new guns to go commit crimes, at least not a very large percentage of them. It's a good indication that criminals are stealing guns or buying them from other sources after they've changed hands several times over the course of a decade or more. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:36:47 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was this case of a crazy lady that bought an insane amount of water, using it to fill a container and drown all five of her children in that water. She could legally buy all the water she needed. And it was piped to her house. No background check, no limits. I heard it was Dihydrogen monoxide. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:38:30 AM EDT
[#35]
See, you can't do that in Illinois because of the "cooling off" 3 day wait.
In that three days, people that want a gun go from an uncontrolled murderous rage to being calm, reasonable and law abiding. True story. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:42:04 AM EDT
[#36]
Worked a gay love triangle murder. Gay guy #1 talks gay guy #2 into killing gay guy #3.
#1 writes out a to- do list detailing everything from buying the gun to location of murder and makes #2 sign it. #1 goes to Walmart and buys a Remington 700 in. 243. Gives it to #2 who had never held a gun in his life. #2 drives to #3's home and right in the driveway shoots him point blank. #1 had kept the receipt since he intended to return the gun for a refund. Time from purchase to boom was about one hour 45 minutes. Mostly due to bad traffic..
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:47:59 AM EDT
[#37]
Just this morning, I read a post on here by someone whose friend borrowed his shotgun purportedly for hunting and instead used it to murder somebody.
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:11:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC, she drove her minivan into an unsecured lake Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There was this case of a crazy lady that bought an insane amount of water, using it to fill a container and drown all five of her children in that water. She could legally buy all the water she needed. And it was piped to her house. No background check, no limits. IIRC, she drove her minivan into an unsecured lake |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:12:59 AM EDT
[#39]
How about rental guns then used for suicide on indoor range?
Happens so often at a local range they are going after the families of the deceased for compensation. Clean up is extremely costly and the range is shut down for day or two at least. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:20:18 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I've got a couple that are 50+ years and counting, but are conveniently omitted from that statistic by definition. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
According to the ATF in Texas time to crime for a gun is 3 years generally speaking. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/143918-txatfwebsite13pdf/download If that is true then the time to crime for guns used in a crime would be minutes, hours or just a few days at max. Most guns never are used in a crime and nobody can divide by infinity. Sounds like made up statistics to me. Yeah, I've got a couple that are 50+ years and counting, but are conveniently omitted from that statistic by definition. I think you've missed the point of that slide. Of guns recovered relating to crimes and successfully traced only 703 were purchased within 3 months of the crime compared to the many thousands purchased 3 year plus in advance (average being ~10 years). |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:22:13 AM EDT
[#41]
When I was a law clerk for an appeals court, I reviewed a few thousand criminal cases.
A surprisingly large number of assaults and homicides had this fact pattern, although more frequently the "recent acquisition" of a weapon was a knife. It happens. You can't imagine it because you have never crossed the rubicon of "malice aforethought" -- that fucking crazy place where a person decides, genuinely decides, that they are going to kill someone other than in the heat of passion or defense. Now, even with that being said, I'm opposed to the waiting periods. My review of all those cases made it clear to me that when someone crosses that line, they will proceed with their plan using whatever instrumentality they can. I remember a case where a guy was refused a gun at a pawnshop -- this was before Brady checks -- because the pawn shop owner just through he was sketchy. The guy tried next to get some explosives. I guess he wasn't interested in an up close and personal murder. Ultimately, the guy sawed a brake line on the target's car. (he didn't know about the cross-circuits in all modern brake systems so his plan did not work). People who go off the fucking tracks and have truly decided to murder will find a way to try and get it done. Maybe the liberals are onto something in terms of a gun being the most likely / easiest for them to use in order to succeed, but at bottom the balance must be struck in favor of law abiding citizens (including women facing stalkers, etc.) getting immediate access to guns rather than limiting anyone on the hopes that a murderous criminal will "give up" if he can't immediately buy a gun. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:30:11 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See, you can't do that in Illinois because of the "cooling off" 3 day wait. In that three days, people that want a gun go from an uncontrolled murderous rage to being calm, reasonable and law abiding. True story. The waiting periods don't work for murder or suicide, if there is a plan or thought three days are not going to make a difference. Also if a woman is being stalked or threatened by a former loved one, that three day waiting period could get her killed. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:34:12 AM EDT
[#43]
Former neighbor's 19 y.o. kid went out to Dicks Sporting Goods store right after a fight with dad, bought a Mossberg 500 shotgun, returned right from the store to home and pointed it at dad while racking the forearm. While the gun was empty, it turns out after his arrest that he said he was unable to get any 12 gauge ammo only because out of stock in the store at that time (this was a few weeks after Sandy Hook).
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:34:25 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that is true then the time to crime for guns used in a crime would be minutes, hours or just a few days at max. Most guns never are used in a crime and nobody can divide by infinity. Sounds like made up statistics to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
According to the ATF in Texas time to crime for a gun is 3 years generally speaking. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/143918-txatfwebsite13pdf/download If that is true then the time to crime for guns used in a crime would be minutes, hours or just a few days at max. Most guns never are used in a crime and nobody can divide by infinity. Sounds like made up statistics to me. How hard is to understand? OF guns used in crimes OF guns used in crimes that were legally purchased the average time from purchase to crime was 3 years How is that a made up statistic? |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:38:06 AM EDT
[#45]
You don't need the statistics, and I doubt they exist.....what's the incentive...the truth?
You just need the "if it saves one life". Besides, buy a gun kill someone is a crime of passion...wait 10 days and it's murder. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:38:40 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The waiting periods don't work for murder or suicide, if there is a plan or thought three days are not going to make a difference. Also if a woman is being stalked or threatened by a former loved one, that three day waiting period could get her killed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
See, you can't do that in Illinois because of the "cooling off" 3 day wait. In that three days, people that want a gun go from an uncontrolled murderous rage to being calm, reasonable and law abiding. True story. The waiting periods don't work for murder or suicide, if there is a plan or thought three days are not going to make a difference. Also if a woman is being stalked or threatened by a former loved one, that three day waiting period could get her killed. You may have missed the sarcasm in my post. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:45:05 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The waiting periods don't work for murder or suicide, if there is a plan or thought three days are not going to make a difference. Also if a woman is being stalked or threatened by a former loved one, that three day waiting period could get her killed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
See, you can't do that in Illinois because of the "cooling off" 3 day wait. In that three days, people that want a gun go from an uncontrolled murderous rage to being calm, reasonable and law abiding. True story. The waiting periods don't work for murder or suicide, if there is a plan or thought three days are not going to make a difference. Also if a woman is being stalked or threatened by a former loved one, that three day waiting period could get her killed. Sarcasm aside, the part in red has actually happened. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:46:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People who go off the fucking tracks and have truly decided to murder will find a way to try and get it done. Maybe the liberals are onto something in terms of a gun being the most likely / easiest for them to use in order to succeed, but at bottom the balance must be struck in favor of law abiding citizens (including women facing stalkers, etc.) getting immediate access to guns rather than limiting anyone on the hopes that a murderous criminal will "give up" if he can't immediately buy a gun. It's unfortunate that this is one of those invisible statistics - how many people decided to kill someone, tried to buy a gun, were denied and said "fuck it, I'll play xbox/get drunk" rather than finding alternative means. I suspect that it's an incredibly small number but it's basically impossible to measure. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:52:13 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about rental guns then used for suicide on indoor range? Happens so often at a local range they are going after the families of the deceased for compensation. Clean up is extremely costly and the range is shut down for day or two at least. When I went to the indoor range last night they had one of the bays closed and a guy all wrapped up in a Tyvex suit with a bucket and mop. I don't know if he was doing a routine cleaning of accumulated gun powder or mopping up brains. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 11:55:03 AM EDT
[#50]
So we should legalize suicide and have an approved path that involves maybe a day with a counselor (no more than a day), a mandated meeting with immediate family (two hours max), then a special self cleaning booth. No locking the person away for their own protection, any of that BS.
And no, I am not kidding. People that want to kill themselves will eventually do so somehow. Let's just give them a safe way to do it with a way to make their peace with loved ones, their diety of choice, and themselves. |
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