I love my Arsenal SLR107-CR, great company. Recently my local news box mentioned the story about another company that manufactures AK's that will fire without pulling the trigger if someone moves the safety lever all the way past the receiver.  Is this only common to the specific model/company that the story mentions or do all AK's exhibit that flaw.




The story came out this week. You find it. I cannot search on my potata. Basically if someone forcefully moves the safety lever all the way up past the point over the receiver, it will trigger the sear and the bolt goes forward.
 

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Most will get hung up on the back of the trigger group before it rotates all the way up.  You can do it but you gotta muscle it a bit.

It's stoopid.  It's blatantly obvious that it's not in the normal safe or fire position, to expect it to be safe is

Keep your dustcover on...shouldn't be an issue.

Theres a thread already on this subject somewhere around here.
Someone will be along to link it shortly most likely and call dupe.
Havent read the whole thread so dont know if your question has been covered there or not though.

I just popped the top cover off of my Century WASR and tried it. Pulling the safety lever all the way up does not cause the hammer to fall.

Here's a video explaining the issue.

It's a side effect of using a full auto selector with a semi auto FCG.  Doesn't apply to all AKs.  The top cover on most is designed to keep the selector from going passed the safe position.

If you are that worried about it... it takes like 5 seconds to test.  Just charge the rifle, remove top cover, then go for it.

If the tail is completely machined off of the disconnector, it can happen. That's what a Tapco G2 disconnector looks like.

Normally, a semi-only AK safety will hit the disconnector tail and will lock up, preventing it from overtraveling.

As retarded as it is, Century may lose this lawsuit, as I believe the specific claim is regarding a Yugo AK - the Yugo/Zastava factory semi-only FCG is properly designed to not allow safety overtravel, which is the root cause of this issue. Century removes the Zastava FCG and replaces it with a Tapco G2 (or their own equilvalent that is nearly identical)

I had one that did that years ago.  It might have been a WASR.  You would have to be a complete moron to do it as it was almost impossible with the dust cover on, and it still took more force than normal, even with the dust cover removed.  

I am no expert, but I beleive the "flaw" is due to the configuration of the weapon due to import rules.

----------> Safe.


In any other direction, it's not safe. How hard is that to understand.

I just don't think the "other company" should be sued because of tards.

http://www.wsvn.com/story/31182822/class-action-lawsuit-alleges-ak-47-rifle-safety-defect

Clear your rifle first

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1836683_Century_Arms____5_million_class_Action_lawsuit.html

Locked, but the info is there.

Just tried it on my WASR without the dust cover and no hammer drop.
 

My Saiga 7.62 will if I take the top cover off. But I mean, if you're doing things stupid like pointing firearms at people for no reason, why not handle it with pieces off?

That video is fucking retarded.

The relief in the "semi-auto" safety is NOT to avoid the potential for pivoting the safety upward beyond the dust cover to push on the disconnector and release the hammer/trigger engagement.

The purpose of the relief on the semi-auto safety is to prevent the selector bar from engaging with a F.A. disconnector even if a FA trigger/disconnector were installed.  

For a long time the ATF wrote up "approved" semi-auto configurations that had a lot of redundancy to disable multiple aspects of F.A. function.  

Thus, on an UZI, there has to be:

a welded bar that prevents a F.A. bolt from entering a semi-auto receiver,
AND a different sear which will not function correctly with a F.A. bolt,
AND the a stop has to be welded to prevent the selector from going to F.A.,
AND there has to be a restricting ring that likewise is mechanically incompatible with a F.A. bolt.

On an AK, the grind-away of the safety selector is one of these things.  

I.e., omit the autosear and its pin hole,
AND grind the autosear trip off the bolt carrier,
AND reconfigure the semi hammer so there's no catch for the autosear,
AND reconfigure the semi disconnector catch by grinding off the tail,
AND remove material from the safety that is supposed to catch that tail even if its there.

I've got a semi trigger group and a f.a. trigger group from my parts bin sitting here side by side on the same pin, and it sure seems to me that there's no reason a F.A. safety wouldn't also interact with a F.A. trigger/disconnector so as to release the hammer if the safety were pivoted way up past the position where the dust cover should stop it.

So like I said:  Fucking dumb.   The notch in the safety is NOT there to avoid this particular out of spec manipulation of fire control and resulting malfunction arising from this out of design range movement of the parts.

If you install them together, you will find that the safety hits the tail on the disconnector, and it stops before it pivots any further than safe.

If you install an FA safety and disconnector together without the safety sear, all you will get is hammer follow. While in theory that could lead to a short burst of two/three rounds, in 99% of cases with an AK, hammer follow will result in a failure to reset the hammer on a loaded chamber. So I've never understood why the ATF gets their panties in a twist about these parts.

Hmmm.   I swapped out JUST the disconnector and I think I see what is going on here.   Its the missing "step" on the top of the disconnector on the aftermarket US parts:



That red bit there is me drawing in where the missing material is located.   So what's happening is that the safety lever rides up that radius area and instead of hitting the notch, travels up and displaces the top of the disconnector forward moving the trigger.   I suppose this would occur as well on the Tapco style disconnector that omits the entire rear half of the disconnector.

My earlier point remains:   The "semi auto" safety is NOT engineered to avoid this particular "out of spec manipulation malfunction," it was to deal with the desire to prevent interaction between the safety and the actual FA disconnector tail.   Basically the AK analog to the way the AR15 semi auto trigger is closed on the back and the disconnector does not stick out.  

These the lawsuits over this shit are dumb as fuck.  What is someone doing with a round in the chamber manipulating the selector that far up?

Lol I must have just sat here for a good solid minute watching this and laughing...

I just noticed that the Plaintiff in this case is an attorney.  What a joke.

Its pretty pathetic.

Trying to get it to fire without pulling the trigger, so they can file a lawsuit.

Yes you are correct, that is really the only reason why any AK safety is modified.

Whether intentional or not, the disconnector with a proper "leg" intact will prevent even a semi-only safety from overtraveling.

As you've discovered, several types of common semi-only AK disconnectors are not properly designed to prevent this condition - whether intentional or not. Yours looks like an Arsenal disconnector. The Tapco G2 has none whatsoever. I believe Century's in-house "Red Army Standard" FCG is pretty much a rip off of the G2 as well.

Glad I'm not the only one.



 

Yeah, but its not that extra bit of tail that sticks out past the trigger, its that vertical shelf that I've drawn onto an arsenal part above in red.  

I remember years ago there was a LOT of fucking around with AK disconnectors to deal with painful trigger slap issues.   That WAS because of the omitted FA tail.  In a FA gun that tail reaches back far enough that when its ratched back by the hammer, that tail would bump the rear trigger guard rivot instead of bottoming out against the trigger and translating slap to the shooter.   Semi auto disconnectors don't have the full lenght tail, and so cold rotate back far enough that the rear of the disconnector could hit the trigger and slap the user.  

Looks like folks spent so much time looking at the underside of the rear of the disconnector that they did not consider the purpose of that vertical shelf I've highlighted above.  That feature does prevent safety overtravel and was probably designed to do so.

Is this even a big deal? You basically have to operate the rifle like a 'tard for this to be an issue, such as trying to disassemble a rifle with a loaded chamber.

ETA: My Saiga does this with the standard safety lever, and a Tapco G2 group. I noticed this during a teardown for cleaning, wasn't a big deal, unless you're a dummy who regularly uses his AK without the duscover.

My Yugo M92 Pap will do it. The dust cover doesn't catch the safety selector and prevent it from rotating all the way up. I wasn't aware of the inherent danger, until my father in law was shooting with me and tried to engage the safety. Luckily it was pointed down range and the only damage was a busted knuckle and dirty drawers. I bent the dust cover outward to prevent it from reoccurring.

Well, shit, didn't account for "out of spec" parts, or how stacked loose tolerances are basically how the AK was designed to operate. Most of them you have to go well past the point where the dust cover would stop the selector movement to drop the hammer.

 

Even to this day, that GIF makes me laugh. It's right at the moment when the trash explodes out of the can.

You have to rotate the selector nearly 90deg past safe for the malfunction to occur. My fault for not explaining the selector operation thoroughly to an AK newb. I honestly had no idea that could happen, and found one thread, describing a similar occurrence, with a Google search. Lately the topic has been popping up a bunch though. Weird how that happens.

Well, the dustcover is supposed to stop that, in theory.

Also, its kinda nice to know that Izhmash did the absolute bare minimum to make my Saiga 7.62 importable, as it has a "full auto" selector. I never really looked at the stock trigger parts, but I bet the stock disconnector still has the F/A tail on the end, too.