User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 7:38:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They have non-competes, so they aren't going to a competitor soon enough to impact our business. I know their skillsets, they are not great salesmen, and are very well compensated considering how infrequently they land accounts and the effort they put in to do it. It is a cushy job. Profits wouldn't increase until they were replaced, but the ship would keep moving. What I am saying is, you can operate one of two ways: Decide the margin you want to make, and sky is the limit on what your team can bring in. There is a LOT of merit to that, I personally don't think there should be an upside cap on earning potential. Decide what you will pay your people based on their value in the market, and profit as much as you can from them. Down side is your team is not always 100% happy, but the upside is you have far greater profits. An employee managing 3,000,000 in business making 200k is profiting the company 2.8mil. Truthfully, there are a lot of other administrative expenses, I'm just trying to simplify the example. Sure, he/she may leave eventually and you run the potential risk of losing said business, but in the meantime you are making $2.8mil a year. If you decide you are going to make 30% margin, you are paying your sales guy $2.1mil, and making $900k. I can see the merit in paying him a lot more money, as he will work harder to generate more business in order to make more money, but at a certain point he is going to hit the limit of business he an be responsible for, and you're only making 30% on that because you paid him to continue growing the business instead of making more profit so you could grow your business. That profit could have paid for dozens of sales people, improvements to the business, new products and services. In the long run, which is the better play? Pay them enough that they can't make more elsewhere, or pay them so much they would never consider leaving? Either way, if they leave they aren't doing it because of the money, so which benefits the business more. If you disagree with that, I want to know if you are hiring, because I'd love to work someplace with unlimited upside potential. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A whole lot of vindictive and jealous people in this thread. If he is bringing enough money in to cover his overhead and make you more money, then you ought to not object to a raise. It doesn't matter what other companies are paying, it is about the value he contributes to your organization. If he isn't making you more money, then no raise. All this other emotional nonsense has no place in business. Where do you draw the line?Will your profits still increase if these people walked. I mean, we have people at my company that brought in and maintain multiple million dollar a year accounts. They make close to 200k with bonuses, drive company vehicles, excellent benefits. If they keep asking for more, knowing damn well they couldn't make what they do somewhere else You know this or speculate on this? What is preventing them from starting their own firm?, are we to just give it to them because they are contributors at a high level? Companies exist to make money for their shareholders. You have to keep your people happy and retain top talent, but at a certain point, you just aren't worth that much more than someone else. If any member of our sales team left, not a single competitor would pick them up, nor would their customers leave usUnless you have some sort of legal protection preventing this, you are just speculating and banking on a bad job market.. I'd bet OP is in the same boat. He tries to get up to 30% profit on his work, which is more than fair and really the minimum most companies aim for nowadays. The line is what sort of impact does he have on your growth. Is this guy a rain maker or just punching a clock? If the engine of your growth is this technician or your guys bringing in multi million dollar accounts, and you let them go you are shorting share holders. Whats your opportunity costs when you try to find a replacement? What if you have to train a replacement? What if he becomes your competitor? This tech and those account managers might not be real rain makers, but if they are you need to keep them. They have non-competes, so they aren't going to a competitor soon enough to impact our business. I know their skillsets, they are not great salesmen, and are very well compensated considering how infrequently they land accounts and the effort they put in to do it. It is a cushy job. Profits wouldn't increase until they were replaced, but the ship would keep moving. What I am saying is, you can operate one of two ways: Decide the margin you want to make, and sky is the limit on what your team can bring in. There is a LOT of merit to that, I personally don't think there should be an upside cap on earning potential. Decide what you will pay your people based on their value in the market, and profit as much as you can from them. Down side is your team is not always 100% happy, but the upside is you have far greater profits. An employee managing 3,000,000 in business making 200k is profiting the company 2.8mil. Truthfully, there are a lot of other administrative expenses, I'm just trying to simplify the example. Sure, he/she may leave eventually and you run the potential risk of losing said business, but in the meantime you are making $2.8mil a year. If you decide you are going to make 30% margin, you are paying your sales guy $2.1mil, and making $900k. I can see the merit in paying him a lot more money, as he will work harder to generate more business in order to make more money, but at a certain point he is going to hit the limit of business he an be responsible for, and you're only making 30% on that because you paid him to continue growing the business instead of making more profit so you could grow your business. That profit could have paid for dozens of sales people, improvements to the business, new products and services. In the long run, which is the better play? Pay them enough that they can't make more elsewhere, or pay them so much they would never consider leaving? Either way, if they leave they aren't doing it because of the money, so which benefits the business more. If you disagree with that, I want to know if you are hiring, because I'd love to work someplace with unlimited upside potential. http://www.goodprofitbook.com/#sectionOne |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 7:41:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Change his position to salary exempt. Give the 10% raise. This. But I'm a nice guy so I'd give him 12% 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 7:44:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It caught me flat footed and pissed me off. He's just brought it up in the last week or so. I have a philosophy.. the difference between what you're worth and what you get paid is the definition of profit. If you want to get close to what you're worth you need to own the place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Another thing. You said he's whining. But, you also said he thinks he deserves more money. If that's all he said, that's not whining, that's negotiating your own worth and precisely what ANY employee should do if they honestly feel they are doing good work. Is he really whining, as in continually complaining, or did he bring up salary advancement and it hurt your feelings? It matters. It caught me flat footed and pissed me off. He's just brought it up in the last week or so. I have a philosophy.. the difference between what you're worth and what you get paid is the definition of profit. If you want to get close to what you're worth you need to own the place. A single talk about pay raises in a growing company isn't whining. It's a discussion and negotiation. If he's waging a campaign among the other workers, sewing discord, ok, but you're saying it's just come up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 7:46:58 PM EDT
[#4]
I love when people with degrees complain about people without degrees making too much.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 7:50:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Not sure what part of Texas you are in, but I know lots of displaced oil field workers that will step up for less than he makes.
Don't let the tail wag the dog. You can hire for less or he can go somewhere for more, it's a free market. F*^&ing communist's piss me off! |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:01:29 PM EDT
[#6]
If it was me I would evaluate his pay as he has requested.
With that said I would put money on it that he makes more than the norm for his position. Give him a written notice of his pay cut and let it play out. That is a vey good amount of money. From what I understand is currentl labor market in Texas is over flowing with oil field equipment operators. If your non compete is good he won't be able to go somewhere else. Just do it legally. In Missouri an employer is required to give 30 days notice of reduction of wages. That's he way all the large business he departments I've dealt with work. If you request a pay eval instead of your supervisor requesting it you can loose money. People need to realize that you are not garuntee a raise. I have not had a evaluation let alone a raise in over 4 years and I'm payed 30 percent under our shop scale. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:04:50 PM EDT
[#7]
no.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:09:58 PM EDT
[#8]
It sounds like the guy doesn't understand the business side, but is also valuable to your business.
I would run the numbers out with him, and show him where the money goes, and how you make a profit. Employees often times just assume that there's always money to go around, and don't grasp the concept that money has to come from somewhere. Explain that as an owner you have all of the risk of paying employees and keeping the lights on, and as a result you get profits from the business. This will go two fold by showing him how the business side works and show him you value him by bringing him into the fold. Then ask him what the justification would be to pay him more. If his added pay does nothing to increase profits for the business it's not justified. If he still doesn't get it, while making 140k a year, he's not an employee that you want to keep around no matter how good a worker he is. While the idea of finding someone new can be scary there is not a shortage of people looking for work. I was drastically underpaid in my job for a while. But I didn't bitch, I made a case for why I was valuable to my boss and we had a discussion about it, and worked out a situation that worked for both of us. I justified my worth through numbers, I didn't just say fuck you pay me. After having a good dialog with my boss I'm now very happy. On a personal note...140k with all of those benefits is incredible. You take great care of your people and should be proud. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:13:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Did op specify exactly what this guy does? Is it replicable? Could two people making $70k produce the same or better?
I find your employee to be rather stupid. He's making bank, and rocking the boat. He shouldn't be rousing the workplace. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:21:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think he'll have a hard time finding something that will pay him that much. I might have to deal with the butthurt though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like you'll be losing your best field tech. I promise you finding another one as good as him as a replacement will cost more than 10%. I think he'll have a hard time finding something that will pay him that much. I might have to deal with the butthurt though. I don't know the answer, but it kind of sounds like HIS butthurt is going to be a huge (expensive) pain in the ass for YOU. I think that I might want to let that kind of problem head down the road. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:25:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it was me I would evaluate his pay as he has requested. With that said I would put money on it that he makes more than the norm for his position. Give him a written notice of his pay cut and let it play out. That is a vey good amount of money. From what I understand is currentl labor market in Texas is over flowing with oil field equipment operators. If your non compete is good he won't be able to go somewhere else. Just do it legally. In Missouri an employer is required to give 30 days notice of reduction of wages. That's he way all the large business he departments I've dealt with work. If you request a pay eval instead of your supervisor requesting it you can loose money. People need to realize that you are not garuntee a raise. I have not had a evaluation let alone a raise in over 4 years and I'm payed 30 percent under our shop scale. Its amazing how many managers let outside companies make business decisions for them and believe the value an employee brings to one company is the same for all. Thank goodness for regulatory burden and the lack of capitalism in this country, you would all go under if you had to compete with start ups. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:28:17 PM EDT
[#12]
I'll take it
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:28:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fact that you're posting about this and seeking input combined with what the guy is making makes me think that it's in your interest to be fair and treat them well. Is there a risk of this guy splintering off and becoming a competitor? If that's the case, it's worth giving the raise and making sure he's bound by a non-compete if he isn't already. Sometimes people look to create a level of animosity to justify going into competition with an employer that took good care of them. I would think there's a good chance that you aren't taking much more salary than that yourself and I would explain that and that your assets and investment are tied up in the success of the company. This is a good point. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:31:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's a difference between the human side and the business side. I can distinguish between the two. I work hard to keep our guys happy (that's the human side). When they request something outlandish like a huge raise we can't justify, I look at the numbers and make a decision on a number (that's the business side). Not a person. When I figure that number, there is no name, no family, no kids. There is a market wage, a replacement cost, amount of profit generated, and ease of transition if he leaves. At that point, he is a commodity. What you are implying I do, is look at them as the same thing. I don't. I actually picked up a lot of employees from my competitor because he treated guys like that. He would literally tell them "look at that stack of applications, everybody wants to work here, if you don't like it then turn in your keys." 2 of my best techs came to me that way. In the same situation, I would say "I really can't justify paying any more right now, if you need to move on then I understand, maybe things will be different in the future and you can come back on with us." There's a time to be human and a time to pay the bills. I know the names of every family member of my 30 guys. I know what's going on in their life and what they are saving money for. I know what vehicle they just bought or what vacation they took or what family member came to stay with them or what their hobbies are. When i'm in the office I have to figure out how to pay the bills. Industrial service and construction is a commodity. If my cost is too high, they will purchase elsewhere. Nearly everything in life is governed by a market. When the market goes to shit and i'm losing 50 grand a month, I don't cut salaries. When times are good I need to make hay, not give it to employees. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's amazing how large the disconnect is on this website between business people and employees. 1. Yo dawg, you make shit tons of cash, pay that man his paper. vs. 2. What is the market wage for his job and how much profit does he generate? That is sloppy business. The value this guy adds to this operation is different than his impact to another business. People aren't commodities and the only way to keep competitive advantage is to make your own determination of value. If this guy is responsible for major business growth, it doesn't matter what other companies pay other techs, it matters that this guy is growing your business and if you let him go he will grow your competitors. You could argue that. I personally wouldn't agree. If the company will be greatly damaged by own person leaving that isn't an owner, then they need to take a long hard look at their issues and fix them...........or they have a truly exceptional employee that needs an ownership stake. Beyond that, employees are a commodity. Another line item in a budget and nothing more. They can be replaced easily if the need arises. No one wants turnover. I want my guys to be a big family and love their job. My average employee stays here over 5 years and that's in a demanding industrial job with 24/7 on call service. Long hours and high burnout rates. I want my guys to be a part of the team but in the end, I can't be afraid of turnover. If they aren't happy with what i'm willing to pay then good luck, maybe another time. I've seen employees come and go, partners come and go. Guys a lot more skilled than I am, or will ever be. Every time they left, we said "omg what will be do." Literally, we were panicked. Frantic. We stayed the course. Things died down after a month and we moved onward. And exactly how is anyone suppose to be a "big family" and "love their job" when you specifically say they are nothing more than a roll of shit paper. A commodity, I'd love working for you just as long as it took to get a job with a competitor and try and run you out of business. There's a difference between the human side and the business side. I can distinguish between the two. I work hard to keep our guys happy (that's the human side). When they request something outlandish like a huge raise we can't justify, I look at the numbers and make a decision on a number (that's the business side). Not a person. When I figure that number, there is no name, no family, no kids. There is a market wage, a replacement cost, amount of profit generated, and ease of transition if he leaves. At that point, he is a commodity. What you are implying I do, is look at them as the same thing. I don't. I actually picked up a lot of employees from my competitor because he treated guys like that. He would literally tell them "look at that stack of applications, everybody wants to work here, if you don't like it then turn in your keys." 2 of my best techs came to me that way. In the same situation, I would say "I really can't justify paying any more right now, if you need to move on then I understand, maybe things will be different in the future and you can come back on with us." There's a time to be human and a time to pay the bills. I know the names of every family member of my 30 guys. I know what's going on in their life and what they are saving money for. I know what vehicle they just bought or what vacation they took or what family member came to stay with them or what their hobbies are. When i'm in the office I have to figure out how to pay the bills. Industrial service and construction is a commodity. If my cost is too high, they will purchase elsewhere. Nearly everything in life is governed by a market. When the market goes to shit and i'm losing 50 grand a month, I don't cut salaries. When times are good I need to make hay, not give it to employees. This is the best most thought out answer I have seen and I agree 100 percent. I run a small company and have had similar issues as well and would handle just as stated above. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:31:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Past performance does not guarantee future results." That only counts for single moms |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:36:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Are you hiring?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:42:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Fire him.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:45:44 PM EDT
[#18]
geez--I'd work for 50k.. And TX is nice
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:47:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you hiring? This Fast learner willing to travel have my own tools 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 8:54:55 PM EDT
[#20]
Count me IN! I will move to TX and bring my own guns. I also have a IT background and managing people.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:00:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like I would do that job for about 100k.....if you need a guy.  No shit...and I have a couple of degrees |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:05:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Will it hurt your company more if he quits and you move someone up to replace him? Or would it be better if you just give him the 10% and continue to take care of your best field employee? Only you can decide that, but if you say he is your best, it might be beneficial to do everything in your power to keep him.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:07:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I have an employee complaining he didn’t get a raise this year, and advocating strongly for additional raises for other employees. He is our best field employee. He’s early 30s, no degree, single. He made $140k last year. 45k salary, the balance is day rates for working jobs. He has said he feels like he deserves a 10% raise. Our company is 4 years old, he has worked here three years. I think he made 60k 90k and 140k the three years he’s worked here. He does field service type technical work for us as a job supervisor (in charge of 3 other guys on a job). Job description includes driving 1-ton truck with equipment trailer (20% time), setting up and tearing down equipment labor (10% time), interfacing with customers and computer/technical type work operating equipment (70% time). They also get paid waiting around for the customer to be ready for our process. They work 12 hour shifts. w/ 24 hour coverage. The company pays travel, lodging, meals etc. He has a company card. We pay 100% health insurance and 401k matching to 4% plus a profit sharing bonus. It’s like a gut punch to me that this guy is whining about money. We go out of our way to treat our employees very well. Feels like a betrayal. Our lowest paid employee makes 55k /yr with the same benefits package. We have 25 or so employees. I don’t know what his problem his. How do I give him/them a reality check? Tell him to SHUT HIS PIE HOLE or you will replace him. I know people who would kneecap him to get that job. You would probably be overwhelmed with qualified applicants 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:14:07 PM EDT
[#24]
I could use a job
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:15:16 PM EDT
[#25]
I have never asked for an increase. Never had to. If you put your best foot forward recognition should come. That's a two way street where both employee and employer hitchhike on.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:20:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This Fast learner willing to travel have my own tools Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Are you hiring? This Fast learner willing to travel have my own tools I have senority here, back off!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:20:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fire that guy and hire me in his position. And pay. That will teach him a lesson. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have an employee complaining he didn’t get a raise this year, and advocating strongly for additional raises for other employees. He is our best field employee. He’s early 30s, no degree, single. He made $140k last year. 45k salary, the balance is day rates for working jobs. He has said he feels like he deserves a 10% raise. Our company is 4 years old, he has worked here three years. I think he made 60k 90k and 140k the three years he’s worked here. He does field service type technical work for us as a job supervisor (in charge of 3 other guys on a job). Job description includes driving 1-ton truck with equipment trailer (20% time), setting up and tearing down equipment labor (10% time), interfacing with customers and computer/technical type work operating equipment (70% time). They also get paid waiting around for the customer to be ready for our process. They work 12 hour shifts. w/ 24 hour coverage. The company pays travel, lodging, meals etc. He has a company card. We pay 100% health insurance and 401k matching to 4% plus a profit sharing bonus. It’s like a gut punch to me that this guy is whining about money. We go out of our way to treat our employees very well. Feels like a betrayal. Our lowest paid employee makes 55k /yr with the same benefits package. We have 25 or so employees. I don’t know what his problem his. How do I give him/them a reality check? Fire that guy and hire me in his position. And pay. That will teach him a lesson. Fuck that. I'm in Texas and will do it for the $90k that he earned last year. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:32:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not making that much billing for his labor, it's more equipment rental and sales of material. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Based on his track record of making money for you, will your 10% (plus taxes, etc) provide a return greater than that 10%? Basically, even if you pay him more, will he make you more? If so, I'd give him the raise, with the notice that if he doesn't deliver increased revenue, it'll be the last one he gets until he does. I'm not making that much billing for his labor, it's more equipment rental and sales of material. How much of the rental and sales does he sell the customer? Is it proportionate to your other employees, or is he a superstar saleman with a 30% share? (Presuming you have more than 8 salepersons). Do you beleive he can bring you an additional $42K net in the next year? (Factoring 14K in wages; 14K in taxes, UI, SS, healthcare, etc; and 14K for your company? If not, what kind of numbers do you think he will do? Adjust rebuttal pay raise percent accordingly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:32:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Businesses try to maximize profits why shouldn't it be acceptable for an employee to do the same?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:41:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Tell him to find employment elsewhere.
He's making damned good money. I don't fault him for wanting more, we all do. That said he's got it made, just doesn't realize it. Were I his boss, he would soon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:50:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Businesses try to maximize profits why shouldn't it be acceptable for an employee to do the same? It is acceptable. The end result is the same. Either the customer pays the increased price or they hire someone else. If I went to all my customers other vendors and sparked a mass request for increases, I expect that they would shop the business. It's may well bite me in the ass, as well as the others that joined in. It bites both ways too, they might find a whole different set of vendors to do it cheaper. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:50:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much of the rental and sales does he sell the customer? Is it proportionate to your other employees, or is he a superstar saleman with a 30% share? (Presuming you have more than 8 salepersons). Do you beleive he can bring you an additional $42K net in the next year? (Factoring 14K in wages; 14K in taxes, UI, SS, healthcare, etc; and 14K for your company? If not, what kind of numbers do you think he will do? Adjust rebuttal pay raise percent accordingly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Based on his track record of making money for you, will your 10% (plus taxes, etc) provide a return greater than that 10%? Basically, even if you pay him more, will he make you more? If so, I'd give him the raise, with the notice that if he doesn't deliver increased revenue, it'll be the last one he gets until he does. I'm not making that much billing for his labor, it's more equipment rental and sales of material. How much of the rental and sales does he sell the customer? Is it proportionate to your other employees, or is he a superstar saleman with a 30% share? (Presuming you have more than 8 salepersons). Do you beleive he can bring you an additional $42K net in the next year? (Factoring 14K in wages; 14K in taxes, UI, SS, healthcare, etc; and 14K for your company? If not, what kind of numbers do you think he will do? Adjust rebuttal pay raise percent accordingly. He doesn't sell anything, he operates the equipment and supervises the job where the material is consumed. We have other guys doing the selling. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 9:54:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The guy is either worth it or not. It's pretty simple. Only the OP knows. That's right.... OP...maybe you should reflect for a while on yourself and your organization and what you want to be percieved as BEFORE deciding. I'm not at all saying he's right....or he's wrong. If you find value in open communication on the subject and really want your employees to be truely part of this organization YOU need to communicate that to him/her. Tell them what all went into your decision, INCLUDING the time to communicate it openly with him/her..... If you want him to stay....say it....if you really can give him a 10% more on his salary and he's proven his value, then tell him. If you can't pay the 10%....tell him why. He's been there for several years...and obviously doesn't want to leave....I've known people who've stayed somewhere 15 years because they like the type of work, the owner, etc. Communication is the key.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:02:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He doesn't sell anything, he operates the equipment and supervises the job where the material is consumed. We have other guys doing the selling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Based on his track record of making money for you, will your 10% (plus taxes, etc) provide a return greater than that 10%? Basically, even if you pay him more, will he make you more? If so, I'd give him the raise, with the notice that if he doesn't deliver increased revenue, it'll be the last one he gets until he does. I'm not making that much billing for his labor, it's more equipment rental and sales of material. How much of the rental and sales does he sell the customer? Is it proportionate to your other employees, or is he a superstar saleman with a 30% share? (Presuming you have more than 8 salepersons). Do you beleive he can bring you an additional $42K net in the next year? (Factoring 14K in wages; 14K in taxes, UI, SS, healthcare, etc; and 14K for your company? If not, what kind of numbers do you think he will do? Adjust rebuttal pay raise percent accordingly. He doesn't sell anything, he operates the equipment and supervises the job where the material is consumed. We have other guys doing the selling. Based on what you have posted so far, I would replace him. I would certainly TRY to make him happy and keep him, but it sounds like he could be a bigger problem than he is worth. What will the raises he is advocating for cost you? Are they worth it (maybe they are)? You are the only one here that has the whole picture. The fact that he can do his job well is not the only factor if he is hurting you somewhere else. Some people do more harm than good. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:02:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Ditto.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Count me IN! I will move to TX and bring my own guns. I also have a IT background and managing people. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:05:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He doesn't sell anything, he operates the equipment and supervises the job where the material is consumed. We have other guys doing the selling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Based on his track record of making money for you, will your 10% (plus taxes, etc) provide a return greater than that 10%? Basically, even if you pay him more, will he make you more? If so, I'd give him the raise, with the notice that if he doesn't deliver increased revenue, it'll be the last one he gets until he does. I'm not making that much billing for his labor, it's more equipment rental and sales of material. How much of the rental and sales does he sell the customer? Is it proportionate to your other employees, or is he a superstar saleman with a 30% share? (Presuming you have more than 8 salepersons). Do you beleive he can bring you an additional $42K net in the next year? (Factoring 14K in wages; 14K in taxes, UI, SS, healthcare, etc; and 14K for your company? If not, what kind of numbers do you think he will do? Adjust rebuttal pay raise percent accordingly. He doesn't sell anything, he operates the equipment and supervises the job where the material is consumed. We have other guys doing the selling. He is so replaceable. I'd suggest you hire his replacement now, and also agree to his raise. Once his replacement is up to speed, cut his pay back severely. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:05:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Thats why most big companies have a salary band for any job level. No such thing as an endless salary raises for the same job role for eternity. You are a field tech manager? pay range is between 150K and 200K. Don't like that your salary is capped at 200K?...too bad so sad, go get a promotion or switch to another company. thas life.
ANyway if he hates it so bad, he should find another job. It sounds like he has higher than market salary and excellent benefits at your company, so doubt he'll be able to find a better deal elsewhere. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:06:05 PM EDT
[#38]
A lot of people here seem to think merely asking for a raise is a fireable offense.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:16:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot of people here seem to think merely asking for a raise is a fireable offense. When you start at 60 and bump 30+ every year, then start bitching, yeah. You are fucking fired. OP, I am up at all hours and will stomp some serious ass for 100k a year, steady. 20 years of workforce experience. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:23:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes you do. I have a guy on a crew with a physics degree from GA Tech that makes half of what the employee in question does. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not sure what your industry standard compensation looks like, but I manage a group of roughly 30 construction workers. Like you we cover 100 percent of their health costs, do the 4% match on the 401K, etc. Our guys travel pretty much constantly, the entire continental US and we don't have any field personal that make $145K. I personally would tell him good luck, you currently cannot afford to keep him on at his requested wage rates but that you hope he finds it on the open market. We are nationwide too, lots of travel. We pay more than the going rate for this kind of work. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:24:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It will take about a year of training and going on jobs to get to where this guy is for a competent person who is suited for the work. He gives good service above the standard our clients are used to in this kind of business, our quality people is part of the reason for our success. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Post his position for 2/3 of what he makes now, and see who interviews. If you get a shitload of qualified applicants, you've learned that you are overpaying him. If you don't get good applicants, your compensation package is more in line with the industry. Remember that compensation is ultimately subject to market forces - a person's labor is worth what the market will pay, no more, no less. Paying well above market rates for performance that isn't well above market standards is as bad as underpaying for performance. It will take about a year of training and going on jobs to get to where this guy is for a competent person who is suited for the work. He gives good service above the standard our clients are used to in this kind of business, our quality people is part of the reason for our success. You're paying him well, and presumably he's worth every penny and then some, because you're profitable. Keep paying well, profit, and let some other fool race to the bottom as the lowest bidder. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:26:25 PM EDT
[#42]
It sounds to me like you are butthurt that he dare ask for a raise. The fact that you want to give him a reality check gives me a glimpse at what kind of owner manager you might be and you might take a look in the mirror before running off your good staff. Don't take that as a dig, take it as an opportunity to learn and grow. Since you're a new company and a growing company, you might not have had time to put together an employee manual that states policies for annual reviews and raises. If you haven't now is a good time and reason why. It also sounds to me that he is a valuable employee and is selling his soul to your company working 12 hour days. Doesn't leave much time for a life and his your company not his. Good employees can get a job anywhere and can usually get a raise by making a move. Not getting a raise for above average effort and production is a kick in the guts and he was treating you with respect letting you know what he expects instead of just jumping ship first. If the company can afford annual raises and doesn't give them, good luck with losing your better employees often. Also, if you are driving your new Corvette to work or taking 3 day weekends every week to oversee the construction of your ski cabin in the mountains it tends to cause things like this.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:27:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Does your Company have any HR support, have you conducted any salary surveys? Do your employees have wage ranges based on their job descriptions? How about a Company policy regarding how raises and other benefits are handled?
It sound like you created you own monster with these huge pay raises and he expects big raises every year, how much does he expect to be making in 10 years? I would give him a 2% cost of living increase and an 8% performance bonus. Then I would think carefully about establishing some published guidelines for reasonable compensation. He sounds like a decent employee that has a job he's good at that maybe doesn't challenge him very much. Good luck |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:28:23 PM EDT
[#44]
I manage 105 employees who conduct 20+ different processes on 2 shifts on $50 million dollars of capital equipment and I don't come close to what your guy makes. Whatever it is you do, you must have excellent margins. I applaud you.
Your guy on the other hand, sounds like needs a reality check and I hope you're not giving away working capital for your business needlessly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:37:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It will take about a year of training and going on jobs to get to where this guy is for a competent person who is suited for the work. He gives good service above the standard our clients are used to in this kind of business, our quality people is part of the reason for our success. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Post his position for 2/3 of what he makes now, and see who interviews. If you get a shitload of qualified applicants, you've learned that you are overpaying him. If you don't get good applicants, your compensation package is more in line with the industry. Remember that compensation is ultimately subject to market forces - a person's labor is worth what the market will pay, no more, no less. Paying well above market rates for performance that isn't well above market standards is as bad as underpaying for performance. It will take about a year of training and going on jobs to get to where this guy is for a competent person who is suited for the work. He gives good service above the standard our clients are used to in this kind of business, our quality people is part of the reason for our success. Start interviewing. He can hold your company hostage. Grow the business, not the employee compensation. And why are you asking a bunch of Internet gun know it alls for advice on your business?!? Try SCORE. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:44:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you start at 60 and bump 30+ every year, then start bitching, yeah. You are fucking fired. OP, I am up at all hours and will stomp some serious ass for 100k a year, steady. 20 years of workforce experience. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A lot of people here seem to think merely asking for a raise is a fireable offense. When you start at 60 and bump 30+ every year, then start bitching, yeah. You are fucking fired. OP, I am up at all hours and will stomp some serious ass for 100k a year, steady. 20 years of workforce experience. Lol at all you begging for the $140K job. BTW he didn't get 'bumped' 30+ a year, he has been working harder and longer every year to get to that number I doubt most of you would last the 24/7 traveling grind the OP has his crews on without bitching about wanting more money |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 10:44:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Put out a memo to ALL of your employees that you have been receiving an increased amount of requests for wage increases. Because of the concern this is causing mgmt, you are going to be doing an industry comparison of compensation levels and will be adjusting pay levels up or down based on the results. Wait a few weeks and then take whiny employee out to dinner. Explain to him that he is receiving a highly increased level of compensation compared to rest of industry. Technically you should be implementing a large cut in his pay. BUT...you and the rest of mgmt are reluctant to lose him as an employee. Tell him that you will maintain his present salary but he cannot discuss this with other employees.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 11:07:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Seems some are upset that a man without a college degree is allowed to make that much money and has the nerve to want to try and make more.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 11:16:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol at all you begging for the $140K job. BTW he didn't get 'bumped' 30+ a year, he has been working harder and longer every year to get to that number I doubt most of you would last the 24/7 traveling grind the OP has his crews on without bitching about wanting more money Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A lot of people here seem to think merely asking for a raise is a fireable offense. When you start at 60 and bump 30+ every year, then start bitching, yeah. You are fucking fired. OP, I am up at all hours and will stomp some serious ass for 100k a year, steady. 20 years of workforce experience. Lol at all you begging for the $140K job. BTW he didn't get 'bumped' 30+ a year, he has been working harder and longer every year to get to that number I doubt most of you would last the 24/7 traveling grind the OP has his crews on without bitching about wanting more money I make 40k working my fingers to the bone, doing work only someone with 10+ years of experience can do. Sounds like this jackoff has it easy and I will jump his whiney spot in a second, for less. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2016 11:24:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I make 40k working my fingers to the bone, doing work only someone with 10+ years of experience can do. Sounds like this jackoff has it easy and I will jump his whiney spot in a second, for less. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A lot of people here seem to think merely asking for a raise is a fireable offense. When you start at 60 and bump 30+ every year, then start bitching, yeah. You are fucking fired. OP, I am up at all hours and will stomp some serious ass for 100k a year, steady. 20 years of workforce experience. Lol at all you begging for the $140K job. BTW he didn't get 'bumped' 30+ a year, he has been working harder and longer every year to get to that number I doubt most of you would last the 24/7 traveling grind the OP has his crews on without bitching about wanting more money I make 40k working my fingers to the bone, doing work only someone with 10+ years of experience can do. Sounds like this jackoff has it easy and I will jump his whiney spot in a second, for less. You need to focus you efforts on managing your career instead of being angry about others careers. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
