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Posted: 2/10/2016 5:50:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Point out that he has doubled his salary since he started?
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Posted: 2/10/2016 5:50:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is he the type of guy who will encourage your other employees to start whining about increases in wages? If so, nip it in the bud. If you make a deal with him and keep him, you may want to have him sign a non-compete and a confidentiality agreement. 
They have those, but if someone wants to be a turd they don't really slow you down too much. It just makes the ensuing 6 year lawsuit easier to win. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 5:51:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I have an employee complaining he didn’t get a raise this year, and advocating strongly for additional raises for other employees. He is our best field employee. He’s early 30s, no degree, single. He made $140k last year. 45k salary, the balance is day rates for working jobs. He has said he feels like he deserves a 10% raise. Our company is 4 years old, he has worked here three years. I think he made 60k 90k and 140k the three years he’s worked here. He does field service type technical work for us as a job supervisor (in charge of 3 other guys on a job). Job description includes driving 1-ton truck with equipment trailer (20% time), setting up and tearing down equipment labor (10% time), interfacing with customers and computer/technical type work operating equipment (70% time). They also get paid waiting around for the customer to be ready for our process. They work 12 hour shifts. w/ 24 hour coverage. The company pays travel, lodging, meals etc. He has a company card. We pay 100% health insurance and 401k matching to 4% plus a profit sharing bonus. It’s like a gut punch to me that this guy is whining about money. We go out of our way to treat our employees very well. Feels like a betrayal. Our lowest paid employee makes 55k /yr with the same benefits package. We have 25 or so employees. I don’t know what his problem his. How do I give him/them a reality check? Reality check him by telling him that if he thinks he can do better elsewhere, to go ahead and do it. He will find that he can't, and shut his mouth, or that he can, and prove you wrong. Its a job market, you are only worth what someone is willing to pay you, and you will only know if you're on the market. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 5:52:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ask him why he thinks he deserves a raise, and what he has done to earn it. Just showing up doesn't cut it, maybe if he got a degree that would suffice. What? Why? |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 5:52:32 PM EDT
[#5]
This is my biggest annoyance at work. I have one coworker in particular who takes every chance to whine, bitch and moan about their pay and how much work they have. I don't think they realize how good we have it and how awesome of a company we work for. Your attitude is the reason your job and your life suck.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 5:52:37 PM EDT
[#6]
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I think he'll have a hard time finding something that will pay him that much. I might have to deal with the butthurt though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sounds like you'll be losing your best field tech. I promise you finding another one as good as him as a replacement will cost more than 10%. I think he'll have a hard time finding something that will pay him that much. I might have to deal with the butthurt though. Industrial tech, shouldn't be a big deal to find for that money. I have 4 with that sort of skill level. The highest paid one (the only one that works similar hours to what you speak of) makes about 135. It's time to prove a point. Every time someone pulls the "you can't replacement me" card I kindly remind them that if I could be replaced at this company, twice, then they sure can be replaced as well. I hold all of the licenses and certs in our company and own part of it. I still got replaced.  Twice.
I love the look of fear when that thought sinks into their mind. I'm very good to my guys. I don't tolerate rebellion. The guy before me pulled the same shit. It was the week of my 19th birthday. My boss gave me a credit card and told me he would check in with me next month. I was 1200 miles from home with a crew of know-nothings but he wanted to prove a point to the supervisor before me. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 5:53:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good. Then unless he's really making you obscene profits that JUSTIFY a raise, stand firm and keep the explanation short, "At this time a raise is not warranted." And that's it. Prepare for him to either accept it, or pout like a little baby, which may include behaviors like tanking his work speed, etc. CMOS We try to run 25-30%. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 5:55:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Sounds like he has a good gig.
Ask him where he thinks he could go with his education and experience and make the same pay and benefits. I doubt he comes up with anything and he will have his own answer. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 5:57:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reality check him by telling him that if he thinks he can do better elsewhere, to go ahead and do it. He will find that he can't, and shut his mouth, or that he can, and prove you wrong. Its a job market, you are only worth what someone is willing to pay you, and you will only know if you're on the market. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have an employee complaining he didn’t get a raise this year, and advocating strongly for additional raises for other employees. He is our best field employee. He’s early 30s, no degree, single. He made $140k last year. 45k salary, the balance is day rates for working jobs. He has said he feels like he deserves a 10% raise. Our company is 4 years old, he has worked here three years. I think he made 60k 90k and 140k the three years he’s worked here. He does field service type technical work for us as a job supervisor (in charge of 3 other guys on a job). Job description includes driving 1-ton truck with equipment trailer (20% time), setting up and tearing down equipment labor (10% time), interfacing with customers and computer/technical type work operating equipment (70% time). They also get paid waiting around for the customer to be ready for our process. They work 12 hour shifts. w/ 24 hour coverage. The company pays travel, lodging, meals etc. He has a company card. We pay 100% health insurance and 401k matching to 4% plus a profit sharing bonus. It’s like a gut punch to me that this guy is whining about money. We go out of our way to treat our employees very well. Feels like a betrayal. Our lowest paid employee makes 55k /yr with the same benefits package. We have 25 or so employees. I don’t know what his problem his. How do I give him/them a reality check? Reality check him by telling him that if he thinks he can do better elsewhere, to go ahead and do it. He will find that he can't, and shut his mouth, or that he can, and prove you wrong. Its a job market, you are only worth what someone is willing to pay you, and you will only know if you're on the market. Quoting myself here to make a point. I am saying this from experience. I was a piss ant whiner who thought I was worth way more than I was being paid. I expressed that, and my CEO told me I wasn't worth more than I was getting paid, and wouldn't be until I had more experience under my belt. I didn't believe him, and applied to dozens of jobs. My resume is stellar, as is my track record and references. I didn't get a single call back for a job that paid better than the one I have. I am, now, perfectly content making what I make, and pursuing my MBA to add value. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 5:59:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Is he bring in more money for the company? Is he saving money for the company? If his productivity is going up and making you more profitable than you are out of line.
If he isn't adding more value, then yeah he is out of line. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:00:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoting myself here to make a point. I am saying this from experience. I was a piss ant whiner who thought I was worth way more than I was being paid. I expressed that, and my CEO told me I wasn't worth more than I was getting paid, and wouldn't be until I had more experience under my belt. I didn't believe him, and applied to dozens of jobs. My resume is stellar, as is my track record and references. I didn't get a single call back for a job that paid better than the one I have. I am, now, perfectly content making what I make, and pursuing my MBA to add value. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have an employee complaining he didn’t get a raise this year, and advocating strongly for additional raises for other employees. He is our best field employee. He’s early 30s, no degree, single. He made $140k last year. 45k salary, the balance is day rates for working jobs. He has said he feels like he deserves a 10% raise. Our company is 4 years old, he has worked here three years. I think he made 60k 90k and 140k the three years he’s worked here. He does field service type technical work for us as a job supervisor (in charge of 3 other guys on a job). Job description includes driving 1-ton truck with equipment trailer (20% time), setting up and tearing down equipment labor (10% time), interfacing with customers and computer/technical type work operating equipment (70% time). They also get paid waiting around for the customer to be ready for our process. They work 12 hour shifts. w/ 24 hour coverage. The company pays travel, lodging, meals etc. He has a company card. We pay 100% health insurance and 401k matching to 4% plus a profit sharing bonus. It’s like a gut punch to me that this guy is whining about money. We go out of our way to treat our employees very well. Feels like a betrayal. Our lowest paid employee makes 55k /yr with the same benefits package. We have 25 or so employees. I don’t know what his problem his. How do I give him/them a reality check? Reality check him by telling him that if he thinks he can do better elsewhere, to go ahead and do it. He will find that he can't, and shut his mouth, or that he can, and prove you wrong. Its a job market, you are only worth what someone is willing to pay you, and you will only know if you're on the market. Quoting myself here to make a point. I am saying this from experience. I was a piss ant whiner who thought I was worth way more than I was being paid. I expressed that, and my CEO told me I wasn't worth more than I was getting paid, and wouldn't be until I had more experience under my belt. I didn't believe him, and applied to dozens of jobs. My resume is stellar, as is my track record and references. I didn't get a single call back for a job that paid better than the one I have. I am, now, perfectly content making what I make, and pursuing my MBA to add value. I was in the same boat. Not only did I not get offers, I found out that I make about 40k more than most guys doing my job, so even a job 1 or 2 levels higher than mine wouldn't pay more, which didn't matter because no one wanted me for those jobs. I've had dozens of companies ask me to apply for jobs. Never got an offer yet. Most of the big ones can't even get a waiver to interview me because i'm not qualified. I'm a slow learner so I left and went out on my own, then came back after I lost my life savings.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:02:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What? Why? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ask him why he thinks he deserves a raise, and what he has done to earn it. Just showing up doesn't cut it, maybe if he got a degree that would suffice. What? Why? Supervisor with no education. Or supervisor with management degree. Which is more valuable to you? At least it is showing that he is TRYING to improve himself in order to be worth the money he is asking. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:05:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Supervisor with no education. Or supervisor with management degree. Which is more valuable to you? At least it is showing that he is TRYING to improve himself in order to be worth the money he is asking. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ask him why he thinks he deserves a raise, and what he has done to earn it. Just showing up doesn't cut it, maybe if he got a degree that would suffice. What? Why? Supervisor with no education. Or supervisor with management degree. Which is more valuable to you? At least it is showing that he is TRYING to improve himself in order to be worth the money he is asking. Whichever one does his job most effectively. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:05:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: I have an employee complaining he didn’t get a raise this year, and advocating strongly for additional raises for other employees. He is our best field employee. He’s early 30s, no degree, single. He made $140k last year. 45k salary, the balance is day rates for working jobs. He has said he feels like he deserves a 10% raise. Our company is 4 years old, he has worked here three years. I think he made 60k 90k and 140k the three years he’s worked here. He does field service type technical work for us as a job supervisor (in charge of 3 other guys on a job). Job description includes driving 1-ton truck with equipment trailer (20% time), setting up and tearing down equipment labor (10% time), interfacing with customers and computer/technical type work operating equipment (70% time). They also get paid waiting around for the customer to be ready for our process. They work 12 hour shifts. w/ 24 hour coverage. The company pays travel, lodging, meals etc. He has a company card. We pay 100% health insurance and 401k matching to 4% plus a profit sharing bonus. It’s like a gut punch to me that this guy is whining about money. We go out of our way to treat our employees very well. Feels like a betrayal. Our lowest paid employee makes 55k /yr with the same benefits package. We have 25 or so employees. I don’t know what his problem his. How do I give him/them a reality check? Just call him in, and say that It’s like a gut punch to me that you are whining about money. Be nice, tell him that you think he's doing a great job, but that crap needs to stop. And you can tell him he's sure as hell NEVER gonna get a raise if he continues to whine about money or anything else. He'll tell you what a great job he's doing, and you can agree with him on that. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:05:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Is he an employee that return customers DEMAND he do required maintenance or repair
or is the job a one time thing then on to the next sucker Customer Tell him you will give him raise as long he buys you a life membership to AR-15.com Home of The Black Rifle
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:06:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell him you agree everyone should get a pay increase. But to pay for it someone will have to lose their job as you will have to downsize to get the funds to pay for it. Then pull everyone else in and tell them that Mr. Whining about Pay will be recommending who should be fired in his new position of Firing Supervisor which will be paid for by firing one employee. I was thinking along these lines, but not as hard core. Sort of a combination of several suggestions. Bring him in and discuss the situation - whatever the industry standard and your internal numbers may be. If you can't afford to lose him you have to find a way to suck it up. Either way, you can let him know in a fairly casual and non-threatening manner that you have heard rumor of his compensation discussions with other employees and that those talks need to end. If you have to let him go due to his running mouth, the others will get their raise and if he moves on to work somewhere else...they will get their raise. Somebody will always try to step up and assume the role of big dog, if for no other reason than pay. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:06:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It will take about a year of training and going on jobs to get to where this guy is for a competent person who is suited for the work. He gives good service above the standard our clients are used to in this kind of business, our quality people is part of the reason for our success. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Post his position for 2/3 of what he makes now, and see who interviews. If you get a shitload of qualified applicants, you've learned that you are overpaying him. If you don't get good applicants, your compensation package is more in line with the industry. Remember that compensation is ultimately subject to market forces - a person's labor is worth what the market will pay, no more, no less. Paying well above market rates for performance that isn't well above market standards is as bad as underpaying for performance. It will take about a year of training and going on jobs to get to where this guy is for a competent person who is suited for the work. He gives good service above the standard our clients are used to in this kind of business, our quality people is part of the reason for our success. Pay the man his 10% and stop bitching you cheap bastard. If he is growing your company you are an idiot for not making that raise happen. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:07:46 PM EDT
[#18]
What are your margins on labor and have you projected this cost out along with external risks? Its not just this wage increase you need to be concerned with. If you provide a 10% bump this year, how much can your employee continue to grow over the length of employment?
IMO; Dont oversell yourself on labor, there are or plenty of great techs out there with sales skills. I am all about hiring an retaining great talent, but you have to be realistic. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:10:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fire that guy and hire me in his position. And pay. That will teach him a lesson. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have an employee complaining he didn’t get a raise this year, and advocating strongly for additional raises for other employees. He is our best field employee. He’s early 30s, no degree, single. He made $140k last year. 45k salary, the balance is day rates for working jobs. He has said he feels like he deserves a 10% raise. Our company is 4 years old, he has worked here three years. I think he made 60k 90k and 140k the three years he’s worked here. He does field service type technical work for us as a job supervisor (in charge of 3 other guys on a job). Job description includes driving 1-ton truck with equipment trailer (20% time), setting up and tearing down equipment labor (10% time), interfacing with customers and computer/technical type work operating equipment (70% time). They also get paid waiting around for the customer to be ready for our process. They work 12 hour shifts. w/ 24 hour coverage. The company pays travel, lodging, meals etc. He has a company card. We pay 100% health insurance and 401k matching to 4% plus a profit sharing bonus. It’s like a gut punch to me that this guy is whining about money. We go out of our way to treat our employees very well. Feels like a betrayal. Our lowest paid employee makes 55k /yr with the same benefits package. We have 25 or so employees. I don’t know what his problem his. How do I give him/them a reality check? Fire that guy and hire me in his position. And pay. That will teach him a lesson. What effect has ACA had on your ability to give raises? That's insane money he's making, especially with no degree. He should be grateful to even have a job. He's making almost 3x the US median income, and US median income is declining. 
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:15:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is he an employee that return customers DEMAND he do required maintenance or repair or is the job a one time thing then on to the next sucker Customer Tell him you will give him raise as long he buys you a life membership to AR-15.com Home of The Black Rifle We have the opportunity to re-work the same jobs every 1-5 years. We might go to the same sites 5 times a year at most. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:15:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Was your company profitable last year?
Did you make truck loads of profit? Did this guy make you a shit ton of money? I work for some fairly liberal people. So when we started needing dump trucks to take all the money to the bank, they gave us a great raise and bonus..... The next year we beat the previous year....less raise, less bonus , but way more office furniture and stupid shit. 
Last year we beat the previous year....again....less raise ...less bonus...but we did get a snack bar , and some bar tables with chairs....
Oh, and I can't forget the welfare leech fund they set up with a huge chunk of profit. I mean , I know I work to make the company money so they can give it to worthless fucking druggies
So op , did you make money? If not, tell him to stfu. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:16:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I have an employee complaining he didn’t get a raise this year, and advocating strongly for additional raises for other employees. He is our best field employee. He’s early 30s, no degree, single. He made $140k last year. 45k salary, the balance is day rates for working jobs. He has said he feels like he deserves a 10% raise. Our company is 4 years old, he has worked here three years. I think he made 60k 90k and 140k the three years he’s worked here. He does field service type technical work for us as a job supervisor (in charge of 3 other guys on a job). Job description includes driving 1-ton truck with equipment trailer (20% time), setting up and tearing down equipment labor (10% time), interfacing with customers and computer/technical type work operating equipment (70% time). They also get paid waiting around for the customer to be ready for our process. They work 12 hour shifts. w/ 24 hour coverage. The company pays travel, lodging, meals etc. He has a company card. We pay 100% health insurance and 401k matching to 4% plus a profit sharing bonus. It’s like a gut punch to me that this guy is whining about money. We go out of our way to treat our employees very well. Feels like a betrayal. Our lowest paid employee makes 55k /yr with the same benefits package. We have 25 or so employees. I don’t know what his problem his. How do I give him/them a reality check? Bump his salary but maintain the other payscale at current rates. 10% on 45k isn't much to not worry about finding a new guy. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:18:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are your margins on labor and have you projected this cost out along with external risks? Its not just this wage increase you need to be concerned with. If you provide a 10% bump this year, how much can your employee continue to grow over the length of employment? IMO; Dont oversell yourself on labor, there are or plenty of great techs out there with sales skills. I am all about hiring an retaining great talent, but you have to be realistic. Our labor markup is not much. The (quality) labor allows us to sell our main products and services where we make most of our money. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:19:37 PM EDT
[#24]
I'm out of my depth here but...
I see a few options. 1. Immediately take everything away from him that isn't in writing. 2. Explain that you gave him raises until he was being paid what you wanted him to be paid. Not what is comparable, not what he's worth, but what you wanted him to earn. This brings you to a cross road if he can't except it. A. Fire him, take the lose and train someone new. B. Make him a manager instead of supervisor and therefore salary. 3. Give him the raise he wants. Wait a few weeks until he's bought a new car, bragged to everyone else, etc. Then cut everyone else pay, hours or increase the cost of health care coverage, or anything not in writing due to "unexpected expenditures". 4. Hire his replacement. Have him train him and don't tell him whats up. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:21:15 PM EDT
[#25]
You hiring? Where in Texas?
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:22:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm out of my depth here but... I see a few options. 1. Immediately take everything away from him that isn't in writing. 2. Explain that you gave him raises until he was being paid what you wanted him to be paid. Not what is comparable, not what he's worth, but what you wanted him to earn. This brings you to a cross road if he can't except it. A. Fire him, take the lose and train someone new. B. Make him a manager instead of supervisor and therefore salary. 3. Give him the raise he wants. Wait a few weeks until he's bought a new car, bragged to everyone else, etc. Then cut everyone else pay, hours or increase the cost of health care coverage, or anything not in writing due to "unexpected expenditures". 4. Hire his replacement. Have him train him and don't tell him whats up. wtf? |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:23:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I have an employee complaining he didn’t get a raise this year, and advocating strongly for additional raises for other employees. He is our best field employee. He’s early 30s, no degree, single. He made $140k last year. 45k salary, the balance is day rates for working jobs. He has said he feels like he deserves a 10% raise. Our company is 4 years old, he has worked here three years. I think he made 60k 90k and 140k the three years he’s worked here. He does field service type technical work for us as a job supervisor (in charge of 3 other guys on a job). Job description includes driving 1-ton truck with equipment trailer (20% time), setting up and tearing down equipment labor (10% time), interfacing with customers and computer/technical type work operating equipment (70% time). They also get paid waiting around for the customer to be ready for our process. They work 12 hour shifts. w/ 24 hour coverage. The company pays travel, lodging, meals etc. He has a company card. We pay 100% health insurance and 401k matching to 4% plus a profit sharing bonus. It’s like a gut punch to me that this guy is whining about money. We go out of our way to treat our employees very well. Feels like a betrayal. Our lowest paid employee makes 55k /yr with the same benefits package. We have 25 or so employees. I don’t know what his problem his. How do I give him/them a reality check? I would work for that and I am better than all of you fuckers. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:24:22 PM EDT
[#28]
A whole lot of vindictive and jealous people in this thread.
If he is bringing enough money in to cover his overhead and make you more money, then you ought to not object to a raise. It doesn't matter what other companies are paying, it is about the value he contributes to your organization. If he isn't making you more money, then no raise. All this other emotional nonsense has no place in business. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:24:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wtf? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm out of my depth here but... I see a few options. 1. Immediately take everything away from him that isn't in writing. 2. Explain that you gave him raises until he was being paid what you wanted him to be paid. Not what is comparable, not what he's worth, but what you wanted him to earn. This brings you to a cross road if he can't except it. A. Fire him, take the lose and train someone new. B. Make him a manager instead of supervisor and therefore salary. 3. Give him the raise he wants. Wait a few weeks until he's bought a new car, bragged to everyone else, etc. Then cut everyone else pay, hours or increase the cost of health care coverage, or anything not in writing due to "unexpected expenditures". 4. Hire his replacement. Have him train him and don't tell him whats up. wtf? That kind of behavior seems like a good way to get your entire workforce to quit. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:26:10 PM EDT
[#30]
It's amazing how large the disconnect is on this website between business people and employees.
1. Yo dawg, you make shit tons of cash, pay that man his paper. vs. 2. What is the market wage for his job and how much profit does he generate? |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:29:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's amazing how large the disconnect is on this website between business people and employees. 1. Yo dawg, you make shit tons of cash, pay that man his paper. vs. 2. What is the market wage for his job and how much profit does he generate? That is sloppy business. The value this guy adds to this operation is different than his impact to another business. People aren't commodities and the only way to keep competitive advantage is to make your own determination of value. If this guy is responsible for major business growth, it doesn't matter what other companies pay other techs, it matters that this guy is growing your business and if you let him go he will grow your competitors. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:29:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A whole lot of vindictive and jealous people in this thread. If he is bringing enough money in to cover his overhead and make you more money, then you ought to not object to a raise. It doesn't matter what other companies are paying, it is about the value he contributes to your organization. If he isn't making you more money, then no raise. All this other emotional nonsense has no place in business. Where do you draw the line? I mean, we have people at my company that brought in and maintain multiple million dollar a year accounts. They make close to 200k with bonuses, drive company vehicles, excellent benefits. If they keep asking for more, knowing damn well they couldn't make what they do somewhere else, are we to just give it to them because they are contributors at a high level? Companies exist to make money for their shareholders. You have to keep your people happy and retain top talent, but at a certain point, you just aren't worth that much more than someone else. If any member of our sales team left, not a single competitor would pick them up, nor would their customers leave us. I'd bet OP is in the same boat. He tries to get up to 30% profit on his work, which is more than fair and really the minimum most companies aim for nowadays. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:29:56 PM EDT
[#33]
do you feel he has earned a raise? What about the job market there? Would he be able to replicate that income easily elsewhere? How long will it take you to train someone else? How much does will a recruiter charge you to fill that position or can you fill it yourself.
Its easy to tell the people in here that don't have to manage others. Firing people isn't all its made out to be. And not because of what it does to the former employee. Its expensive and stressful for the employer. Ive been known to throw people an extra $5K or $10K to keep them happy for another year. (I also give annual raises) That amount of money doesnt really matter and it makes my life easier. But thats assuming hes a good employee that you want to retain. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:30:57 PM EDT
[#34]
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That kind of behavior seems like a good way to get your entire workforce to quit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm out of my depth here but... I see a few options. 1. Immediately take everything away from him that isn't in writing. 2. Explain that you gave him raises until he was being paid what you wanted him to be paid. Not what is comparable, not what he's worth, but what you wanted him to earn. This brings you to a cross road if he can't except it. A. Fire him, take the lose and train someone new. B. Make him a manager instead of supervisor and therefore salary. 3. Give him the raise he wants. Wait a few weeks until he's bought a new car, bragged to everyone else, etc. Then cut everyone else pay, hours or increase the cost of health care coverage, or anything not in writing due to "unexpected expenditures". 4. Hire his replacement. Have him train him and don't tell him whats up. wtf? That kind of behavior seems like a good way to get your entire workforce to quit. And a punch in the fucking mouth
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:38:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where do you draw the line?Will your profits still increase if these people walked. I mean, we have people at my company that brought in and maintain multiple million dollar a year accounts. They make close to 200k with bonuses, drive company vehicles, excellent benefits. If they keep asking for more, knowing damn well they couldn't make what they do somewhere else You know this or speculate on this? What is preventing them from starting their own firm?, are we to just give it to them because they are contributors at a high level? Companies exist to make money for their shareholders. You have to keep your people happy and retain top talent, but at a certain point, you just aren't worth that much more than someone else. If any member of our sales team left, not a single competitor would pick them up, nor would their customers leave usUnless you have some sort of legal protection preventing this, you are just speculating and banking on a bad job market.. I'd bet OP is in the same boat. He tries to get up to 30% profit on his work, which is more than fair and really the minimum most companies aim for nowadays. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A whole lot of vindictive and jealous people in this thread. If he is bringing enough money in to cover his overhead and make you more money, then you ought to not object to a raise. It doesn't matter what other companies are paying, it is about the value he contributes to your organization. If he isn't making you more money, then no raise. All this other emotional nonsense has no place in business. Where do you draw the line?Will your profits still increase if these people walked. I mean, we have people at my company that brought in and maintain multiple million dollar a year accounts. They make close to 200k with bonuses, drive company vehicles, excellent benefits. If they keep asking for more, knowing damn well they couldn't make what they do somewhere else You know this or speculate on this? What is preventing them from starting their own firm?, are we to just give it to them because they are contributors at a high level? Companies exist to make money for their shareholders. You have to keep your people happy and retain top talent, but at a certain point, you just aren't worth that much more than someone else. If any member of our sales team left, not a single competitor would pick them up, nor would their customers leave usUnless you have some sort of legal protection preventing this, you are just speculating and banking on a bad job market.. I'd bet OP is in the same boat. He tries to get up to 30% profit on his work, which is more than fair and really the minimum most companies aim for nowadays. The line is what sort of impact does he have on your growth. Is this guy a rain maker or just punching a clock? If the engine of your growth is this technician or your guys bringing in multi million dollar accounts, and you let them go you are shorting share holders. Whats your opportunity costs when you try to find a replacement? What if you have to train a replacement? What if he becomes your competitor? This tech and those account managers might not be real rain makers, but if they are you need to keep them. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:40:30 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:41:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is sloppy business. The value this guy adds to this operation is different than his impact to another business. People aren't commodities and the only way to keep competitive advantage is to make your own determination of value. If this guy is responsible for major business growth, it doesn't matter what other companies pay other techs, it matters that this guy is growing your business and if you let him go he will grow your competitors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's amazing how large the disconnect is on this website between business people and employees. 1. Yo dawg, you make shit tons of cash, pay that man his paper. vs. 2. What is the market wage for his job and how much profit does he generate? That is sloppy business. The value this guy adds to this operation is different than his impact to another business. People aren't commodities and the only way to keep competitive advantage is to make your own determination of value. If this guy is responsible for major business growth, it doesn't matter what other companies pay other techs, it matters that this guy is growing your business and if you let him go he will grow your competitors. You could argue that. I personally wouldn't agree. If the company will be greatly damaged by own person leaving that isn't an owner, then they need to take a long hard look at their issues and fix them...........or they have a truly exceptional employee that needs an ownership stake. Beyond that, employees are a commodity. Another line item in a budget and nothing more. They can be replaced easily if the need arises. No one wants turnover. I want my guys to be a big family and love their job. My average employee stays here over 5 years and that's in a demanding industrial job with 24/7 on call service. Long hours and high burnout rates. I want my guys to be a part of the team but in the end, I can't be afraid of turnover. If they aren't happy with what i'm willing to pay then good luck, maybe another time. I've seen employees come and go, partners come and go. Guys a lot more skilled than I am, or will ever be. Every time they left, we said "omg what will be do." Literally, we were panicked. Frantic. We stayed the course. Things died down after a month and we moved onward. I was replaced, 2 of the 3 company founders were replaced. The company is bigger than a single employee and always should be. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:44:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is sloppy business. The value this guy adds to this operation is different than his impact to another business. People aren't commodities and the only way to keep competitive advantage is to make your own determination of value. If this guy is responsible for major business growth, it doesn't matter what other companies pay other techs, it matters that this guy is growing your business and if you let him go he will grow your competitors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's amazing how large the disconnect is on this website between business people and employees. 1. Yo dawg, you make shit tons of cash, pay that man his paper. vs. 2. What is the market wage for his job and how much profit does he generate? That is sloppy business. The value this guy adds to this operation is different than his impact to another business. People aren't commodities and the only way to keep competitive advantage is to make your own determination of value. If this guy is responsible for major business growth, it doesn't matter what other companies pay other techs, it matters that this guy is growing your business and if you let him go he will grow your competitors. So the guy can keep getting raises because he thinks he's worth more? At some point, the employee will be asking for more than he's worth to anybody. To say market value doesn't apply is pretty inaccurate. Edit: See it was addressed above. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:46:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You could argue that. I personally wouldn't agree. If the company will be greatly damaged by own person leaving that isn't an owner, then they need to take a long hard look at their issues and fix them...........or they have a truly exceptional employee that needs an ownership stake. Beyond that, employees are a commodity. Another line item in a budget and nothing more. They can be replaced easily if the need arises. No one wants turnover. I want my guys to be a big family and love their job. My average employee stays here over 5 years and that's in a demanding industrial job with 24/7 on call service. Long hours and high burnout rates. I want my guys to be a part of the team but in the end, I can't be afraid of turnover. If they aren't happy with what i'm willing to pay then good luck, maybe another time. I've seen employees come and go, partners come and go. Guys a lot more skilled than I am, or will ever be. Every time they left, we said "omg what will be do." Literally, we were panicked. Frantic. We stayed the course. Things died down after a month and we moved onward. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's amazing how large the disconnect is on this website between business people and employees. 1. Yo dawg, you make shit tons of cash, pay that man his paper. vs. 2. What is the market wage for his job and how much profit does he generate? That is sloppy business. The value this guy adds to this operation is different than his impact to another business. People aren't commodities and the only way to keep competitive advantage is to make your own determination of value. If this guy is responsible for major business growth, it doesn't matter what other companies pay other techs, it matters that this guy is growing your business and if you let him go he will grow your competitors. You could argue that. I personally wouldn't agree. If the company will be greatly damaged by own person leaving that isn't an owner, then they need to take a long hard look at their issues and fix them...........or they have a truly exceptional employee that needs an ownership stake. Beyond that, employees are a commodity. Another line item in a budget and nothing more. They can be replaced easily if the need arises. No one wants turnover. I want my guys to be a big family and love their job. My average employee stays here over 5 years and that's in a demanding industrial job with 24/7 on call service. Long hours and high burnout rates. I want my guys to be a part of the team but in the end, I can't be afraid of turnover. If they aren't happy with what i'm willing to pay then good luck, maybe another time. I've seen employees come and go, partners come and go. Guys a lot more skilled than I am, or will ever be. Every time they left, we said "omg what will be do." Literally, we were panicked. Frantic. We stayed the course. Things died down after a month and we moved onward. And exactly how is anyone suppose to be a "big family" and "love their job" when you specifically say they are nothing more than a roll of shit paper. A commodity, I'd love working for you just as long as it took to get a job with a competitor and try and run you out of business. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:49:04 PM EDT
[#40]
That's like people bitching about how much some salesmen make. The oil company I worked for had one salesman out of around 10 or so account for 40 percent of the revenue. His commission was not capped so he made close to 500k per year during a good revenue year. I didn't give a damn as I worked as a field tech and he supplied plenty of work.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:53:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Do you work for him or does he work for you?
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:54:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I have an employee complaining he didn’t get a raise this year, and advocating strongly for additional raises for other employees. He is our best field employee. He’s early 30s, no degree, single. He made $140k last year. 45k salary, the balance is day rates for working jobs. He has said he feels like he deserves a 10% raise. Our company is 4 years old, he has worked here three years. I think he made 60k 90k and 140k the three years he’s worked here. He does field service type technical work for us as a job supervisor (in charge of 3 other guys on a job). Job description includes driving 1-ton truck with equipment trailer (20% time), setting up and tearing down equipment labor (10% time), interfacing with customers and computer/technical type work operating equipment (70% time). They also get paid waiting around for the customer to be ready for our process. They work 12 hour shifts. w/ 24 hour coverage. The company pays travel, lodging, meals etc. He has a company card. We pay 100% health insurance and 401k matching to 4% plus a profit sharing bonus. It’s like a gut punch to me that this guy is whining about money. We go out of our way to treat our employees very well. Feels like a betrayal. Our lowest paid employee makes 55k /yr with the same benefits package. We have 25 or so employees. I don’t know what his problem his. How do I give him/them a reality check? Fire him and hire me for $105K. Seriously!!! |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 6:58:12 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The line is what sort of impact does he have on your growth. Is this guy a rain maker or just punching a clock? If the engine of your growth is this technician or your guys bringing in multi million dollar accounts, and you let them go you are shorting share holders. Whats your opportunity costs when you try to find a replacement? What if you have to train a replacement? What if he becomes your competitor? This tech and those account managers might not be real rain makers, but if they are you need to keep them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A whole lot of vindictive and jealous people in this thread. If he is bringing enough money in to cover his overhead and make you more money, then you ought to not object to a raise. It doesn't matter what other companies are paying, it is about the value he contributes to your organization. If he isn't making you more money, then no raise. All this other emotional nonsense has no place in business. Where do you draw the line?Will your profits still increase if these people walked. I mean, we have people at my company that brought in and maintain multiple million dollar a year accounts. They make close to 200k with bonuses, drive company vehicles, excellent benefits. If they keep asking for more, knowing damn well they couldn't make what they do somewhere else You know this or speculate on this? What is preventing them from starting their own firm?, are we to just give it to them because they are contributors at a high level? Companies exist to make money for their shareholders. You have to keep your people happy and retain top talent, but at a certain point, you just aren't worth that much more than someone else. If any member of our sales team left, not a single competitor would pick them up, nor would their customers leave usUnless you have some sort of legal protection preventing this, you are just speculating and banking on a bad job market.. I'd bet OP is in the same boat. He tries to get up to 30% profit on his work, which is more than fair and really the minimum most companies aim for nowadays. The line is what sort of impact does he have on your growth. Is this guy a rain maker or just punching a clock? If the engine of your growth is this technician or your guys bringing in multi million dollar accounts, and you let them go you are shorting share holders. Whats your opportunity costs when you try to find a replacement? What if you have to train a replacement? What if he becomes your competitor? This tech and those account managers might not be real rain makers, but if they are you need to keep them. They have non-competes, so they aren't going to a competitor soon enough to impact our business. I know their skillsets, they are not great salesmen, and are very well compensated considering how infrequently they land accounts and the effort they put in to do it. It is a cushy job. Profits wouldn't increase until they were replaced, but the ship would keep moving. What I am saying is, you can operate one of two ways: Decide the margin you want to make, and sky is the limit on what your team can bring in. There is a LOT of merit to that, I personally don't think there should be an upside cap on earning potential. Decide what you will pay your people based on their value in the market, and profit as much as you can from them. Down side is your team is not always 100% happy, but the upside is you have far greater profits. An employee managing 3,000,000 in business making 200k is profiting the company 2.8mil. Truthfully, there are a lot of other administrative expenses, I'm just trying to simplify the example. Sure, he/she may leave eventually and you run the potential risk of losing said business, but in the meantime you are making $2.8mil a year. If you decide you are going to make 30% margin, you are paying your sales guy $2.1mil, and making $900k. I can see the merit in paying him a lot more money, as he will work harder to generate more business in order to make more money, but at a certain point he is going to hit the limit of business he an be responsible for, and you're only making 30% on that because you paid him to continue growing the business instead of making more profit so you could grow your business. That profit could have paid for dozens of sales people, improvements to the business, new products and services. In the long run, which is the better play? Pay them enough that they can't make more elsewhere, or pay them so much they would never consider leaving? Either way, if they leave they aren't doing it because of the money, so which benefits the business more. If you disagree with that, I want to know if you are hiring, because I'd love to work someplace with unlimited upside potential. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 7:00:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And exactly how is anyone suppose to be a "big family" and "love their job" when you specifically say they are nothing more than a roll of shit paper. A commodity, I'd love working for you just as long as it took to get a job with a competitor and try and run you out of business. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's amazing how large the disconnect is on this website between business people and employees. 1. Yo dawg, you make shit tons of cash, pay that man his paper. vs. 2. What is the market wage for his job and how much profit does he generate? That is sloppy business. The value this guy adds to this operation is different than his impact to another business. People aren't commodities and the only way to keep competitive advantage is to make your own determination of value. If this guy is responsible for major business growth, it doesn't matter what other companies pay other techs, it matters that this guy is growing your business and if you let him go he will grow your competitors. You could argue that. I personally wouldn't agree. If the company will be greatly damaged by own person leaving that isn't an owner, then they need to take a long hard look at their issues and fix them...........or they have a truly exceptional employee that needs an ownership stake. Beyond that, employees are a commodity. Another line item in a budget and nothing more. They can be replaced easily if the need arises. No one wants turnover. I want my guys to be a big family and love their job. My average employee stays here over 5 years and that's in a demanding industrial job with 24/7 on call service. Long hours and high burnout rates. I want my guys to be a part of the team but in the end, I can't be afraid of turnover. If they aren't happy with what i'm willing to pay then good luck, maybe another time. I've seen employees come and go, partners come and go. Guys a lot more skilled than I am, or will ever be. Every time they left, we said "omg what will be do." Literally, we were panicked. Frantic. We stayed the course. Things died down after a month and we moved onward. And exactly how is anyone suppose to be a "big family" and "love their job" when you specifically say they are nothing more than a roll of shit paper. A commodity, I'd love working for you just as long as it took to get a job with a competitor and try and run you out of business. There's a difference between the human side and the business side. I can distinguish between the two. I work hard to keep our guys happy (that's the human side). When they request something outlandish like a huge raise we can't justify, I look at the numbers and make a decision on a number (that's the business side). Not a person. When I figure that number, there is no name, no family, no kids. There is a market wage, a replacement cost, amount of profit generated, and ease of transition if he leaves. At that point, he is a commodity. What you are implying I do, is look at them as the same thing. I don't. I actually picked up a lot of employees from my competitor because he treated guys like that. He would literally tell them "look at that stack of applications, everybody wants to work here, if you don't like it then turn in your keys." 2 of my best techs came to me that way. In the same situation, I would say "I really can't justify paying any more right now, if you need to move on then I understand, maybe things will be different in the future and you can come back on with us." There's a time to be human and a time to pay the bills. I know the names of every family member of my 30 guys. I know what's going on in their life and what they are saving money for. I know what vehicle they just bought or what vacation they took or what family member came to stay with them or what their hobbies are. When i'm in the office I have to figure out how to pay the bills. Industrial service and construction is a commodity. If my cost is too high, they will purchase elsewhere. Nearly everything in life is governed by a market. When the market goes to shit and i'm losing 50 grand a month, I don't cut salaries. When times are good I need to make hay, not give it to employees. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 7:00:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Post his position for 2/3 of what he makes now, and see who interviews. If you get a shitload of qualified applicants, you've learned that you are overpaying him. If you don't get good applicants, your compensation package is more in line with the industry. Remember that compensation is ultimately subject to market forces - a person's labor is worth what the market will pay, no more, no less. Paying well above market rates for performance that isn't well above market standards is as bad as underpaying for performance. i would hire you on the spot to manage our local police department. hundreds of applicants for any open position, yet salaries keep going up. 
ar-jedi |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 7:01:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Need to know how many hours of actual work he is putting in? Traveling for work sucks ass too and takes its toll regardless of pay!
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Posted: 2/10/2016 7:04:00 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell him what every other business tells and employee if they whine about their pay - "you are free to find another opportunity with better compensation at anytime." A TON of people haven't gotten raises in many years or were forced to take a paycut when recession hit. This. But I'm leaving a job next month and taking a 33ish % pay raise and better benefits. So be prepared to lose the guy |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 7:10:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the guy can keep getting raises because he thinks he's worth more? At some point, the employee will be asking for more than he's worth to anybody. To say market value doesn't apply is pretty inaccurate. Edit: See it was addressed above. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's amazing how large the disconnect is on this website between business people and employees. 1. Yo dawg, you make shit tons of cash, pay that man his paper. vs. 2. What is the market wage for his job and how much profit does he generate? That is sloppy business. The value this guy adds to this operation is different than his impact to another business. People aren't commodities and the only way to keep competitive advantage is to make your own determination of value. If this guy is responsible for major business growth, it doesn't matter what other companies pay other techs, it matters that this guy is growing your business and if you let him go he will grow your competitors. So the guy can keep getting raises because he thinks he's worth more? At some point, the employee will be asking for more than he's worth to anybody. To say market value doesn't apply is pretty inaccurate. Edit: See it was addressed above. It isn't about what value he adds to another organization, it is about what value he adds to yours. You have to figure that out. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 7:11:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't do it. He's lazy as fuck, hire me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have an employee complaining he didn’t get a raise this year, and advocating strongly for additional raises for other employees. He is our best field employee. He’s early 30s, no degree, single. He made $140k last year. 45k salary, the balance is day rates for working jobs. He has said he feels like he deserves a 10% raise. Our company is 4 years old, he has worked here three years. I think he made 60k 90k and 140k the three years he’s worked here. He does field service type technical work for us as a job supervisor (in charge of 3 other guys on a job). Job description includes driving 1-ton truck with equipment trailer (20% time), setting up and tearing down equipment labor (10% time), interfacing with customers and computer/technical type work operating equipment (70% time). They also get paid waiting around for the customer to be ready for our process. They work 12 hour shifts. w/ 24 hour coverage. The company pays travel, lodging, meals etc. He has a company card. We pay 100% health insurance and 401k matching to 4% plus a profit sharing bonus. It’s like a gut punch to me that this guy is whining about money. We go out of our way to treat our employees very well. Feels like a betrayal. Our lowest paid employee makes 55k /yr with the same benefits package. We have 25 or so employees. I don’t know what his problem his. How do I give him/them a reality check? Fire that guy and hire me in his position. And pay. That will teach him a lesson. Don't do it. He's lazy as fuck, hire me. ^He is lazier than the last guy! 
Hire me! 
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Posted: 2/10/2016 7:29:39 PM EDT
[#50]
Point out his salary over the past three years and the perks he is getting.
Then look him right in the face and ask him where else can he get that. |
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