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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:31:47 AM EDT
[#1]
Hmm, I might just have to do that. My EOtech is getting a bit long in the tooth.
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:33:24 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hopefully. I'll buy a few Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does this mean there will he a bunch of cheap used Eotechs popping up in the EE now?  Hopefully. I'll buy a few Hopefully not. Once again, Eotech is offering a full refund equivalent to the purchase price of the optic. That's half the reason for this thread, so that people are aware this option exists. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:34:22 AM EDT
[#3]
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Hopefully not. Once again, Eotech is offering a full refund equivalent to the purchase price of the optic. That's half the reason for this thread, so that people are aware this option exists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does this mean there will he a bunch of cheap used Eotechs popping up in the EE now? Hopefully. I'll buy a few Hopefully not. Once again, Eotech is offering a full refund equivalent to the purchase price of the optic. That's half the reason for this thread, so that people are aware this option exists. Quick, buy a bunch of shitty beat up eotechs and turn them in for MSRP. 
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:36:03 AM EDT
[#4]
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Hopefully not. Once again, Eotech is offering a full refund equivalent to the purchase price of the optic. That's half the reason for this thread, so that people are aware this option exists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does this mean there will he a bunch of cheap used Eotechs popping up in the EE now? Hopefully. I'll buy a few Hopefully not. Once again, Eotech is offering a full refund equivalent to the purchase price of the optic. That's half the reason for this thread, so that people are aware this option exists. I have at least one piece of shit I know is going in, and the refund applied towards a T1. 
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:38:39 AM EDT
[#5]
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Can someone who knows more about to explain something to me? Is this a problem inherent to the general design of 'holosights' or is it just a QC issue or something that could be ironed out with better materials and expanded t&e etc. In other words if eotech licensed the design to aimpoint could aimpoint make an eotech that was as reliable as its own product line. Seeing as how their lack of reliability versus aimpoints has been pretty much public knowledge for years you'd think by now they would have found a solution if there was one. According to the filing, they would need to completely redesign the entire optic to fix the issues. It has yet to be seen what Eotech plans to do, but people need to be aware that short of Eotech doing this, they will most likely be purchasing a defective optic. At this point, I don't know how anyone could trust Eotech even if they claim they've fixed the issues. There appears to have been a complete culture of dishonesty that ran rampantly throughout their entire operation. I'll never trust them again. Fuck Eotech. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:39:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Funny none of my Aimpoint products have ever given me any trouble. Fuck an EOTech
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:44:05 AM EDT
[#7]
FFS, putting troops lives at risk? lol Eotech is fine.
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:47:23 AM EDT
[#8]
I didn't know about the Return for MSRP - how does one get that started?
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:48:07 AM EDT
[#9]
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FFS, putting troops lives at risk? lol Eotech is fine. lol Yes, I'm sure you are in a better position to declare Eotech's "fine" than the company that manufactured all the defective optics. If you don't feel like reading the filing, fine. Please don't come in here and start pulling bullshit out of your ass, though. Even Eotech themselves acknowledge that nearly every sight they manufactured over the past decade had a number of relatively severe defects. As to your mocking response to the "putting troops lives at risk" statement, you're probably on the wrong side of the argument when internal Eotech emails detailed that very concern in 2007. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:48:17 AM EDT
[#10]
I'm an Aimpoint man myself, but I'm sure that either brand's products would serve me well for my usage. That said, fuck them if they've been knowingly misrepresenting the gear they're selling to the military, law enforcement, and civilians.
Aimpoint/Trijicon 2016 |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:48:42 AM EDT
[#11]
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I didn't know about the Return for MSRP - how does one get that started? A link to the tech thread is at the bottom of my OP. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:49:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Just submitted an RMA for my exps2-0. Works fine now, but not sticking around for it to fail. Refund will go towards a T-1.
More importantly, my rescue squadron has eotechs on all of our issued M-4's. Will be bringing up the issue tomorrow morning. I wonder what recourse if any my unit has for us purchasing over 100 Eotechs, or if it's just the DOD that gets the money back through the lawsuit. Now we'll have to spend even more unit funds to purchase aimpoints. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:49:46 AM EDT
[#13]
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FFS, putting troops lives at risk? lol Eotech is fine. Did you read? Also, spend time getting your NRA lifetime membership vs. trolling this thread |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:50:14 AM EDT
[#14]
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I really wanted a 512 years ago. Glad I went with a Aimpoint. Swapped my 512 to a well respected member here years ago. It was brand new then. Hope it's still working well for him. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:55:08 AM EDT
[#15]
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I really wanted a 512 years ago. Glad I went with a Aimpoint. Yep glad I went with aimpoint. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:56:27 AM EDT
[#16]
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FFS, putting troops lives at risk? lol Eotech is fine. Right, because you know sooooo much more than all of the SMEs and even EOTech themself that have objectively proven that EOTechs are not "fine." 
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:56:57 AM EDT
[#17]
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Hopefully not. Once again, Eotech is offering a full refund equivalent to the purchase price of the optic. That's half the reason for this thread, so that people are aware this option exists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does this mean there will he a bunch of cheap used Eotechs popping up in the EE now? Hopefully. I'll buy a few Hopefully not. Once again, Eotech is offering a full refund equivalent to the purchase price of the optic. That's half the reason for this thread, so that people are aware this option exists. Once again, I'm not going to send my shit back because it "might" go bad in 6 years. I own aim point and eotech and have success with both |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:57:34 AM EDT
[#18]
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Just submitted an RMA for my exps2-0. Works fine now, but not sticking around for it to fail. Refund will go towards a T-1. More importantly, my rescue squadron has eotechs on all of our issued M-4's. Will be bringing up the issue tomorrow morning. I wonder what recourse if any my unit has for us purchasing over 100 Eotechs, or if it's just the DOD that gets the money back through the lawsuit. Now we'll have to spend even more unit funds to purchase aimpoints. You guys could possibly contact Eotech directly about a refund. If they're willing to offer that service for civilian users, I would hope they'd do the same for a .mil COTS purchase. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:59:15 AM EDT
[#19]
I thought that "extreme" temperatures were the only ones causing this problem. 32 degrees F
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:01:19 AM EDT
[#20]
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Once again, I'm not going to send my shit back because it "might" go bad in 6 years. I own aim point and eotech and have success with both Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does this mean there will he a bunch of cheap used Eotechs popping up in the EE now? Hopefully. I'll buy a few Hopefully not. Once again, Eotech is offering a full refund equivalent to the purchase price of the optic. That's half the reason for this thread, so that people are aware this option exists. Once again, I'm not going to send my shit back because it "might" go bad in 6 years. I own aim point and eotech and have success with both CSB. I personally don't give a fuck what you plan to do. This thread wasn't made specifically for you. It was made to help out any member who was concerned about the reliability of their known defective optic. There is now a very good outlet to address those concerns (the refund) and I felt it should be known. If you're not concerned with your known defective product, more power to ya. 
ETA: I just want to clarify this isn't an Aimpoint vs. Eotech thing for me. I have owned half a dozen Eotech models with two of those experiencing the delamination issue. I still recommended them due to their excellent customer service, but after reading this, enough is enough. I just wanted to address this point because your last sentence made it seem like you thought this was a "fanboy" thing, which isn't the case. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:04:25 AM EDT
[#21]
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I thought that "extreme" temperatures were the only ones causing this problem. 32 degrees F Don't forget that it also stops being watertight/airtight after a few days/weeks of being subjected to the "extreme" environment of sitting in it's factory box waiting to be tested. 
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:05:48 AM EDT
[#22]
Thanks for the info RJeff, never saw anything about this before (then again I own my own business and don't spend moar than .5 hours on teh interwebs per week).
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:17:31 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once again, I'm not going to send my shit back because it "might" go bad in 6 years. I own aim point and eotech and have success with both Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does this mean there will he a bunch of cheap used Eotechs popping up in the EE now? Hopefully. I'll buy a few Hopefully not. Once again, Eotech is offering a full refund equivalent to the purchase price of the optic. That's half the reason for this thread, so that people are aware this option exists. Once again, I'm not going to send my shit back because it "might" go bad in 6 years. I own aim point and eotech and have success with both I might agree with you if I hadn't bought an XPS-3-2 three years ago that had the delamination issue only one year later. Oh and the 512 I bought used that had the same problem. I have said in tech threads that I loved eotech and they fixed my sights quick with no questions asked. Here comes the time where I get to say "fuck eotech for selling defective products knowingly" |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:20:50 AM EDT
[#24]
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FFS, putting troops lives at risk? lol Eotech is fine. Apparently almost every unit examined had a wandering zero and internal water damage from defective seals, I can think of many descriptive terms but "fine" is not one of them. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:22:11 AM EDT
[#25]
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I thought that "extreme" temperatures were the only ones causing this problem. 32 degrees F Probably a big reason why the Canadian .mil just ordered all eotechs taken out of service a few days ago. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:22:13 AM EDT
[#26]
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Thanks for the info RJeff, never saw anything about this before (then again I own my own business and don't spend moar than .5 hours on teh interwebs per week).
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:26:28 AM EDT
[#27]
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I did the same. Not anymore. There is no company in the gun industry more deserving of the Arfcom "Fuck insert company name here" label than Eotech. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love eotech and defended them before..... Not anymore. Fuck them. I did the same. Not anymore. There is no company in the gun industry more deserving of the Arfcom "Fuck insert company name here" label than Eotech. I'm with you jeffro. You've seen how bad I was as far as defending EOTech, not anymore. It so happens I just got rid of my last 2 EO's before I even saw/read this as well. I need a fuckin aimpoint. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:27:56 AM EDT
[#28]
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I'm with you jeffro. You've seen how bad I was as far as defending EOTech, not anymore. It so happens I just got rid of my last 2 EO's before I even saw/read this as well. I need a fuckin aimpoint. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love eotech and defended them before..... Not anymore. Fuck them. I did the same. Not anymore. There is no company in the gun industry more deserving of the Arfcom "Fuck insert company name here" label than Eotech. I'm with you jeffro. You've seen how bad I was as far as defending EOTech, not anymore. It so happens I just got rid of my last 2 EO's before I even saw/read this as well. I need a fuckin aimpoint. I've never seen you in GD before. 
[obiwan]This is not the clone thread you seek[/obiwan] |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:29:49 AM EDT
[#29]
Lol. People are treating EoTechs like as if Mattel just put out an urgent warning that a popular kids toy they produce is severily defective and will cause serious injury or death.
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:31:25 AM EDT
[#30]
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Yup. Aimpoint has always been the "rugged" optic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is why I always buy Aimpoint Right, because years ago you knew what no one else did.  It's really not new information, just now it's proven where before it was largely anecdotal. Yup. Aimpoint has always been the "rugged" optic. Well that was pretty general knowledge, along with the way longer battery life. That is why I've never personally bought Eotech. This is kind of different. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:32:10 AM EDT
[#31]
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I've never seen you in GD before.
[obiwan]This is not the clone thread you seek[/obiwan] Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love eotech and defended them before..... Not anymore. Fuck them. I did the same. Not anymore. There is no company in the gun industry more deserving of the Arfcom "Fuck insert company name here" label than Eotech. I'm with you jeffro. You've seen how bad I was as far as defending EOTech, not anymore. It so happens I just got rid of my last 2 EO's before I even saw/read this as well. I need a fuckin aimpoint. I've never seen you in GD before.
[obiwan]This is not the clone thread you seek[/obiwan] I work ARFCOM backwards. I make my tech posts in GD and my GD posts in tech.
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:32:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm with you jeffro. You've seen how bad I was as far as defending EOTech, not anymore. It so happens I just got rid of my last 2 EO's before I even saw/read this as well. I need a fuckin aimpoint. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love eotech and defended them before..... Not anymore. Fuck them. I did the same. Not anymore. There is no company in the gun industry more deserving of the Arfcom "Fuck insert company name here" label than Eotech. I'm with you jeffro. You've seen how bad I was as far as defending EOTech, not anymore. It so happens I just got rid of my last 2 EO's before I even saw/read this as well. I need a fuckin aimpoint. Good on ya. I think you can attest that I also for a while was a big proponent of Eotech. Even after I ditched mine, I don't think I had a bad word to say about them in the clone threads, until now. After reading this though, all I have to say is Fuck Eotech. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:34:32 AM EDT
[#33]
that fat fuck larry Vickers posted this over a month ago...welcome to the party pal
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:34:44 AM EDT
[#34]
This is business-debilitating information. I know they're a big company, but now they have hardly anything to stand on when another option for an optic is in play for the consumer.
It takes a while to positively change a brand's image but much quicker to destroy it. My biggest concern now is Triji as the only one to push Aimpoint to better itself. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:35:33 AM EDT
[#35]
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Good on ya. I think you can attest that I also for a while was a big proponent of Eotech. Even after I ditched mine, I don't think I had a bad word to say about them in the clone threads, until now. After reading this though, all I have to say is Fuck Eotech. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love eotech and defended them before..... Not anymore. Fuck them. I did the same. Not anymore. There is no company in the gun industry more deserving of the Arfcom "Fuck insert company name here" label than Eotech. I'm with you jeffro. You've seen how bad I was as far as defending EOTech, not anymore. It so happens I just got rid of my last 2 EO's before I even saw/read this as well. I need a fuckin aimpoint. Good on ya. I think you can attest that I also for a while was a big proponent of Eotech. Even after I ditched mine, I don't think I had a bad word to say about them in the clone threads, until now. After reading this though, all I have to say is Fuck Eotech. I still love the reticle and the fact that it's a hologram, but after seeing so many of my zero's 5-6 inches off from when I zero'd it, I now know why. Season changed (temp change bukkaked my zero) |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:35:42 AM EDT
[#36]
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Lol. People are treating EoTechs like as if Mattel just put out an urgent warning that a popular kids toy they produce is severily defective and will cause serious injury or death. Give me a break. Eotechs are fine. Eotechs gave me AIDS, true story. Don't ask how. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:35:51 AM EDT
[#37]
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Lol. People are treating EoTechs like as if Mattel just put out an urgent warning that a popular kids toy they produce is severily defective and will cause serious injury or death. Give me a break. Eotechs are fine. Interesting, according to this filing, Eotech themselves would say otherwise. So are you asserting that you know more about the situation than the manufacturer of said defective optics?
It amazes me that people can still say this shit with a straight face when the manufacturer themselves are now acknowledging nearly every optic they produced over the past decade is defective. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:36:50 AM EDT
[#38]
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Eotechs gave me AIDS, true story. Don't ask how. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lol. People are treating EoTechs like as if Mattel just put out an urgent warning that a popular kids toy they produce is severily defective and will cause serious injury or death. Give me a break. Eotechs are fine. Eotechs gave me AIDS, true story. Don't ask how. Its okay. Everyone has aids. 
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:37:36 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't "give any fucks" that they knowingly provided products with severe defects to troops that were going into harms way? Their employees readily acknowledged these concerns, yet they were swept under the rug by their president for nearly a decade. Their president even fired the co-founder of the company who appeared to be constantly pressuring him to disclose these issues to Crane, presumably because of those actions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm looking everywhere for my fucks to give. Still haven't found any... You don't "give any fucks" that they knowingly provided products with severe defects to troops that were going into harms way? Their employees readily acknowledged these concerns, yet they were swept under the rug by their president for nearly a decade. Their president even fired the co-founder of the company who appeared to be constantly pressuring him to disclose these issues to Crane, presumably because of those actions. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:38:43 AM EDT
[#40]
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Lol. People are treating EoTechs like as if Mattel just put out an urgent warning that a popular kids toy they produce is severily defective and will cause serious injury or death. Give me a break. Eotechs are fine. I am sure you are cool with spending $500-600 on an optic that is knowingly defective? Bro....I have an ncstar scope that you would fucking LOVE. Only $400. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:39:37 AM EDT
[#41]
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Interesting, according to this filing, Eotech themselves would say otherwise. So are you asserting that you know more about the situation than the manufacturer of said defective optics?
It amazes me that people can still say this shit with a straight face when the manufacturer themselves are now acknowledging nearly every optic they produced over the past decade is defective. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lol. People are treating EoTechs like as if Mattel just put out an urgent warning that a popular kids toy they produce is severily defective and will cause serious injury or death. Give me a break. Eotechs are fine. Interesting, according to this filing, Eotech themselves would say otherwise. So are you asserting that you know more about the situation than the manufacturer of said defective optics?
It amazes me that people can still say this shit with a straight face when the manufacturer themselves are now acknowledging nearly every optic they produced over the past decade is defective. It's a loyalty issue coupled with a person's stubbornness. Lastly, much of peoples' refutations are they have not themselves experienced an issue. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:39:39 AM EDT
[#42]
What do you put as MSRP if you purchased your EXP 2-2 used (but with box and all goodies in like-new cond.)? I would like a T1 or maybe one of the new Triji RDS.
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:41:20 AM EDT
[#43]
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What do you put as MSRP if you purchased your EXP 2-2 used (but with box and all goodies in like-new cond.)? I would like a T1 or maybe one of the new Triji RDS. Be honorable and put what you paid for it. Not a cent less not a dollar more. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:42:41 AM EDT
[#44]
Kind of interesting because in all pictures world wide the split between Eotech and Aimpoint seem pretty even. I know it often comes down to price more often than not, but you'd think this would have caught on quicker by those who use them. To the point they would have stopped selling without any lawsuits or whatnot.
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:47:48 AM EDT
[#45]
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Thanks for the info RJeff, never saw anything about this before (then again I own my own business and don't spend moar than .5 hours on teh interwebs per week).
Same here. And I second what you said, thanks for posting this RJeff. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:52:15 AM EDT
[#46]
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Kind of interesting because in all pictures world wide the split between Eotech and Aimpoint seem pretty even. I know it often comes down to price more often than not, but you'd think this would have caught on quicker by those who use them. To the point they would have stopped selling without any lawsuits or whatnot. Apparently NSWC Crane started catching on in the past few years due to all the units they were having to send back due to delamination issues. Also, according to the filing, the Norwegian military became aware of these issues during contract testing in 2007. Eotech acknowledged and confirmed that their results were accurate. The Norwegian military eventually chose whatever optic that Eotech was competing against (presumably Aimpoint) even though Eotech tried to undercut the competitor by 50%. For whatever reason, neither Eotech nor the Norwegian military appears to have shared any of this with anybody. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:57:52 AM EDT
[#47]
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Apparently NSWC Crane started catching on in the past few years due to all the units they were having to send back due to delamination issues. Also, according to the filing, the Norwegian military became aware of these issues during contract testing in 2007. Eotech acknowledged and confirmed that their results were accurate. For whatever reason, neither Eotech nor the Norwegian military appears to have shared any of this with anybody. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kind of interesting because in all pictures world wide the split between Eotech and Aimpoint seem pretty even. I know it often comes down to price more often than not, but you'd think this would have caught on quicker by those who use them. To the point they would have stopped selling without any lawsuits or whatnot. Apparently NSWC Crane started catching on in the past few years due to all the units they were having to send back due to delamination issues. Also, according to the filing, the Norwegian military became aware of these issues during contract testing in 2007. Eotech acknowledged and confirmed that their results were accurate. For whatever reason, neither Eotech nor the Norwegian military appears to have shared any of this with anybody. I wonder if the Norwegians use other L3 products like we do, and we do on a mass scale, all kinds of shit. And I'm not even talking about Insight products such as LAM's/weaponlights. I could see this being enough to possibly put eotech under, but I have no doubt L3 will keep on chugging along. I'm getting off topic like usual, but I'm wondering if them having orders on the L3 shit influenced them to keep their traps shut. http://www.l-3com.com/products-services/capabilities.html |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 2:59:16 AM EDT
[#48]
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Can someone who knows more about to explain something to me? Is this a problem inherent to the general design of 'holosights' or is it just a QC issue or something that could be ironed out with better materials and expanded t&e etc. In other words if eotech licensed the design to aimpoint could aimpoint make an eotech that was as reliable as its own product line. Seeing as how their lack of reliability versus aimpoints has been pretty much public knowledge for years you'd think by now they would have found a solution if there was one. The design is defective. It can't be fixed. Perhaps an optic with a similar appearance could be made. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 3:00:41 AM EDT
[#49]
I've run Eotechs since my first 511 manufactured in Oct 2000.
I had an issue with that sight about 2008 where the reticle turned scruffy towards the edges of the viewing window. Sent it in and they fixed it free with no questions asked and upgraded from the bubble buttons to the rubber ones. So far it has been working without any zero shift but has not been used in extreme cold. It still sucks batteries just sitting there though - which sucks. I have several 512s (varying ages), a 553 (7-8 years old), and an Eolad 2S (also 7-8 years old). So far no issues with any of those BUT I haven't tried them in the cold. I'm not sure how cold a chest type deep freezer gets but I plan to ask a friend if I can use his for testing. I'll check zero, put the rifle in deep freeze for a few days, and recheck. I'll likely use the 553 since that is the "SOCOM approved" model. It is currently on a 15/22 with BCM/Troy BUIS. I suppose this is a good reason to have BUIS. One, for backup; two to quick check rough zero on the optic without needing to fire it. I imagine 12MOA would be obvious. I also have the Trijicon TriPower - decent sight, has held zero, but batteries are dead every time I take it out to shoot. Doesn't matter outdoors due to the fiber. I had to send it in right after buying it because one of the adjusters stripped out. Then they sent it back with brass flakes on the interior of the lenses so it went back again. No Aimpoints here but that may be changing soon. It's one thing to make a product that has defects like this for us in the civilian sector but to cover up glaring defects like this for our servicemen and women is inexcusable. I mean, shit, you count on two things, your boots and your rifle. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 3:01:28 AM EDT
[#50]
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The design is defective. It can't be fixed. Perhaps an optic with a similar appearance could be made. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can someone who knows more about to explain something to me? Is this a problem inherent to the general design of 'holosights' or is it just a QC issue or something that could be ironed out with better materials and expanded t&e etc. In other words if eotech licensed the design to aimpoint could aimpoint make an eotech that was as reliable as its own product line. Seeing as how their lack of reliability versus aimpoints has been pretty much public knowledge for years you'd think by now they would have found a solution if there was one. The design is defective. It can't be fixed. Perhaps an optic with a similar appearance could be made. I wonder if this means L3 will just shut EOtech down. Have to design a new optic and their reputation is in the shitter already. |
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