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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:17:47 PM EDT
[#1]
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Methanol, is why they claim it's illegal now. In most cases you don't generate enough Methanol to do any harm (assuming you are even using grains). But if you make a 200 gallon batch and drink the foreshot you WILL go blind and/or die. But it should be noted that distilling doesn't create Methanol, only separates it. Methanol is created during fermentation and exists even in homebrewed beer. But separating it out and drinking it is what makes it so deadly. It's really sad they think people are so stupid they have to protect us. It's not like people get in a car and drive 100mph the first time they're behind the wheel. Like anything, you learn the proper way to do it and do it safe and it should be 100% legal. The sad part is I have 9 years of Chem E education and probably know more about the science of distilling than most distilleries but it still illegal as hell for me to even own the components to distill in Maryland. Sounds like reloading your own ammo except the part of it being highly illegal and all. It's not like people dial up the maximum load and go beyond the first load they make. Gvt protecting the citizens. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:18:01 PM EDT
[#2]
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So they just leave all the higher alcohols in? Ew. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Methanol, is why they claim it's illegal now. In most cases you don't generate enough Methanol to do any harm (assuming you are even using grains). But if you make a 200 gallon batch and drink the heads you WILL go blind and/or die. But it should be noted that distilling doesn't create Methanol, only separates it. Methanol is created during fermentation and exists even in homebrewed beer. But separating it out and drinking it is what makes it so deadly. It's really sad they think people are so stupid they have to protect us. It's not like people get in a car and drive 100mph the first time they're behind the wheel. Like anything, you learn the proper way to do it and do it safe and it should be 100% legal. The sad part is I have 9 years of Chem E education and probably know more about the science of distilling than most distilleries but it still illegal as hell for me to even own the components to distill in Maryland. A good 'shiner will know how much head and tail to cut to get a safe drinkable product. Killing the customers is bad for business. The unscrupulous bootleggers distilling for volume during the prohibition era didn't care and poison whiskey was a real risk. Major distilleries like jb and jd use a continuous still and make no cuts, the still creates nothing it just separates it. You can't drink the foreshots alone but if blended back in create no more danger than commercial booze. Small distilleries make clean cuts and deliver a superior product no doubt but the going blind shit is an old wives tale. So they just leave all the higher alcohols in? Ew. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Which is why the homemade stuff and small batch whiskeys are so much better and don't give you a headache as bad! |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:20:24 PM EDT
[#3]
God, this thread just makes me wanna buy a 10 gal still from Amazon and start making shine just to piss in the gubmint's eye!
But I won't...cuz I like my anoos unstretched. 
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:22:51 PM EDT
[#4]
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I call bullshit on this, unless it's just New York being extra retarded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think you are allowed to distill for your personal use. You can't sell it though Beer and wine is Okay. No distilling for drinking It's illegal to concentrate alcohol by removing water by any means, including freezing. So even apple jack is illegal.  I call bullshit on this, unless it's just New York being extra retarded. Not bullshit and it's not just a New York thing. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:25:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Clear as mud I guess. Just buy one and distill "water" with it.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:29:11 PM EDT
[#6]
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I think you are allowed to distill for your personal use. You can't sell it though Nope. Distilling, even for your own personal consumption, without paying tax is illegal. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:34:08 PM EDT
[#7]
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Which is why the homemade stuff and small batch whiskeys are so much better and don't give you a headache as bad! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Methanol, is why they claim it's illegal now. In most cases you don't generate enough Methanol to do any harm (assuming you are even using grains). But if you make a 200 gallon batch and drink the heads you WILL go blind and/or die. But it should be noted that distilling doesn't create Methanol, only separates it. Methanol is created during fermentation and exists even in homebrewed beer. But separating it out and drinking it is what makes it so deadly. It's really sad they think people are so stupid they have to protect us. It's not like people get in a car and drive 100mph the first time they're behind the wheel. Like anything, you learn the proper way to do it and do it safe and it should be 100% legal. The sad part is I have 9 years of Chem E education and probably know more about the science of distilling than most distilleries but it still illegal as hell for me to even own the components to distill in Maryland. A good 'shiner will know how much head and tail to cut to get a safe drinkable product. Killing the customers is bad for business. The unscrupulous bootleggers distilling for volume during the prohibition era didn't care and poison whiskey was a real risk. Major distilleries like jb and jd use a continuous still and make no cuts, the still creates nothing it just separates it. You can't drink the foreshots alone but if blended back in create no more danger than commercial booze. Small distilleries make clean cuts and deliver a superior product no doubt but the going blind shit is an old wives tale. So they just leave all the higher alcohols in? Ew. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Which is why the homemade stuff and small batch whiskeys are so much better and don't give you a headache as bad! But if you're already distilling it, just take off the methanol from a higher plate and the higher alcohols from a lower plate, an output plate doesn't cost much. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:41:29 PM EDT
[#8]
"Don't ask, don't tell' Don't worry so much  , my dad made beer and wine for years, (some of the best dark beer I've ever drunk) and he made a small amount of whiskey over the years for his own consumption. He never had any problem with the "revenooers" about it. Although he never made it to sell, or advertised that he made it. It was also very good "moonshine"
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:44:09 PM EDT
[#9]
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You can get a free (I think) permit to distill ethanol to be used as a fuel.
http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f511074.pdf And when they come by to test your distilled product (and they will), it better be denatured (mixed with gas/anything to be made unfit for human consumption.) FATF |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:44:53 PM EDT
[#10]
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It's not illegal to distill alcohol. It's illegal to distill it and sell it without giving the government their cut. Yes it is. It's illegal to distill for any reason besides fuel, and you STILL need a permission slip to do that. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:45:30 PM EDT
[#11]
You can make one out of some copper tubing, a stainless steel milk pail (for the boiler), and a 5 gallon plastic bucket.
That's the redneck stills I've seen, anyways. Cheap and simple as shit. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:48:37 PM EDT
[#12]
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No, there is Zero amount of distilled alcohol that is legal unless you jump through the appropriate hoops and pay the tax. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's not illegal if you pay your tax and get your stamp... There is more to it as you likely know. You have to distill a certain amount per year, like hundreds of gallons, and there are building requirements. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Granted, but the similarities are, well, by design... ...ok, so, we agree then. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:02:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Let's assume you live in a place where it is legal.
A still is the best SHTF prep I can think of. I don't have one, but have thought about this for years. Let's just say it is for water. Hell it is worth it for that. But if things were bad and you needed "trading material". Booze is like the second best thing I can think of and guys don't possess the equipment for the best thing to trade.
Let's assume you live in a place where it is legal. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:07:04 PM EDT
[#14]
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I think you are allowed to distill for your personal use. You can't sell it though Negative...Federal Felony |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:08:57 PM EDT
[#15]
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Because uncle sugar needs his tax money. Look at the shitstorm you would incur if you are caught fueling up with non taxed diesel 
No other reason We had an NJ Trooper who owned a Landscaping company get Jammed up that way, he was buying heating oil for significantly less than diesel and using it to run his trucks and equipment. Fired Charged DONE |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:09:24 PM EDT
[#16]
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Very first use of US troops to quell a domestic uprising, the Whiskey Rebellion. Happened in 1796 if my recollection is correct. Untaxed liquor has been a no go ever since. Actually, they were State Militia federalized by President Washington (who took personal command). |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:12:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Thought this was relevant.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:12:20 PM EDT
[#18]
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Very first use of US troops to quell a domestic uprising, the Whiskey Rebellion. Happened in 1796 if my recollection is correct. Untaxed liquor has been a no go ever since. If I remember it was exactly the same reason the colonies went to war with England over. Taxation without representation. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:14:17 PM EDT
[#19]
FATF, FIRS.
Has nothing to do with safety, its all about control and the money. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:15:17 PM EDT
[#20]
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What's the difference between brewing your own beer and distilling your own spirits? You answered your own question. By the way, a fuel alcohol distillers license is free. Just sayin.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:18:03 PM EDT
[#21]
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It's not illegal to distill alcohol. It's illegal to distill it and sell it without giving the government their cut. Wrong 
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:25:22 PM EDT
[#22]
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Fun fact: the reason a "fifth" exists is because it was just below a cutoff in the tax codes. Anything below a quarter gallon had a lower tax burden making "fifths" more economical for purchasers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Beer and wine is Okay. No distilling for drinking It's illegal to concentrate alcohol by removing water by any means, including freezing. So even apple jack is illegal. Better notify Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, etc. They pay taxes on every gallon they make. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The tax is on distilled spirits over 100 proof. " A proof gallon is a gallon of liquid that is 100 proof, or 50% alcohol. The tax is adjusted, depending on the percentage of alcohol of the product" |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:28:03 PM EDT
[#23]
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The taxman wants his cut. He doesn't give a shit about anyone's safety. This is the answer |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 11:09:15 PM EDT
[#24]
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This is the answer Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The taxman wants his cut. He doesn't give a shit about anyone's safety. This is the answer This is true. The local home brew shop I go to sells everything you need to moonshine. Entire setups and even books on it. Funny part is, it's a felony to even own a still in Maryland. When I asked the guy about it he said they are required by law to keep the address of the person who buys the column in case the treasury department wants a list of all the columns they have sold. He said it was a tax issue not necessarily an atf issue, fwiw. Check out their selection: MD Homebrew Spirit Equipment Note: they don't have their columns on the website. Actually a much bigger selection in store. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 11:21:07 PM EDT
[#25]
It is not illegal,
You can grow as much tobacco, brew as much beer, distil as much alcohol as you want to. No tax, no regulation, and only two restrictions : The only rules are, it is on your own land, and you don't sell it. (ie. Personal use) Opps, sorry, This is valid only in NZ, not valid in the land of the free
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Posted: 11/27/2015 11:24:46 PM EDT
[#26]
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It is not illegal, You can grow as much tobacco, brew as much beer, distil as much alcohol as you want to. No tax, no regulation, and only two restrictions : The only rules are, it is on your own land, and you don't sell it. (ie. Personal use) Opps, sorry, This is valid only in NZ, not valid in the land of the free
We're a special kind of fucked up. We can brew beer or wine here all day long. But the second we concentrate the alcohol content of either without permission from mommy government, we've committed a serious offense. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 11:49:14 PM EDT
[#27]
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Having the equipment is legal. Having the ingredients is legal. As soon as you light the burners you're in federal violation and subject to arrest for MULTIPLE infractions of federal law. wow one instance where Canada is freer.... |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 12:01:00 AM EDT
[#28]
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I think you are allowed to distill for your personal use. You can't sell it though Nope. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 12:17:21 AM EDT
[#29]
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Let's assume you live in a place where it is legal. A still is the best SHTF prep I can think of. I don't have one, but have thought about this for years. Let's just say it is for water. Hell it is worth it for that. But if things were bad and you needed "trading material". Booze is like the second best thing I can think of and guys don't possess the equipment for the best thing to trade.
Let's assume you live in a place where it is legal. Distilled alcohol has many uses and could be valuable for more than just drinking. As an antiseptic, for example, or a solvent. Or a fuel in cook stoves and lamps. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 12:23:18 AM EDT
[#30]
The reason it is illegal/taxed is that distilled booze was an alternate form of currency from the frontier days on. Especially when the roads sucked and you couldn't get your grains/potatoes/whatever to market. Make booze from it. Better than having it rot and everyone wants booze right? So it was essentially money and only the feds can mint currency.
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Posted: 11/28/2015 12:48:17 AM EDT
[#31]
Before the 16th Ammendment excise taxes, customs duties and the odd state payment used to basically fund the federal government
The modern government is just rolling with the instutitional inertia. There is a lot of legal precedent and history behind alcohol tax revenue. Add the Women's Christian Temporance Union and their more recent descendents into the mix and you have a historical precedent + quisi rational basis. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 12:49:12 AM EDT
[#32]
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The reason it is illegal/taxed is that distilled booze was an alternate form of currency from the frontier days on. Especially when the roads sucked and you couldn't get your grains/potatoes/whatever to market. Make booze from it. Better than having it rot and everyone wants booze right? So it was essentially money and only the feds can mint currency. This too |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 12:49:27 AM EDT
[#33]
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It's not illegal if you pay your tax and get your stamp... Listen to this guy. Pay to get permission, citizen. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 1:02:45 AM EDT
[#34]
Missouri:
311.055. 1. No person at least twenty-one years of age shall be required to obtain a license to manufacture intoxicating liquor, as defined in section 311.020, for personal or family use. The aggregate amount of intoxicating liquor manufactured per household shall not exceed two hundred gallons per calendar year if there are two or more persons over the age of twenty-one years in such household, or one hundred gallons per calendar year if there is only one person over the age of twenty-one years in such household. Any intoxicating liquor manufactured under this section shall not be sold or offered for sale. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 1:06:23 AM EDT
[#35]
I've never liked home brewed anything. Every single time it's a complete disaster and tastes awful.
It should be illegal to help preserve american taste buds. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 1:06:31 AM EDT
[#36]
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Missouri: 311.055. 1. No person at least twenty-one years of age shall be required to obtain a license to manufacture intoxicating liquor, as defined in section 311.020, for personal or family use. The aggregate amount of intoxicating liquor manufactured per household shall not exceed two hundred gallons per calendar year if there are two or more persons over the age of twenty-one years in such household, or one hundred gallons per calendar year if there is only one person over the age of twenty-one years in such household. Any intoxicating liquor manufactured under this section shall not be sold or offered for sale. FedGov: §1.21 Domestic producers, rectifiers, blenders, and warehousemen. No person, except pursuant to a basic permit issued under the Act, shall: (a) Engage in the business of distilling distilled spirits, producing wine, rectifying or blending distilled spirits or wine, or bottling, or warehousing and bottling, distilled spirits; or (b) While so engaged, sell, offer or deliver for sale, contract to sell, or ship, in interstate or foreign commerce, directly or indirectly or through an affiliate, distilled spirits or wine so distilled, produced, rectified, blended, or bottled, or warehoused and bottled. http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=fd8b0ad16b93584273aefb7460a98eb4&rgn=div5&view=text&node=27:1.0.1.1.1&idno=27#se27.1.1_121 |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 1:07:50 AM EDT
[#37]
I would like to know how to do it.
I think being able to make good spirits would make for good bartering materials in SHTF. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 1:18:58 AM EDT
[#38]
I think the fires,explosions,toxic vapors and public safety have a roll in it. I could be wrong.
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Posted: 11/28/2015 1:26:16 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Missouri: 311.055. 1. No person at least twenty-one years of age shall be required to obtain a license to manufacture intoxicating liquor, as defined in section 311.020, for personal or family use. The aggregate amount of intoxicating liquor manufactured per household shall not exceed two hundred gallons per calendar year if there are two or more persons over the age of twenty-one years in such household, or one hundred gallons per calendar year if there is only one person over the age of twenty-one years in such household. Any intoxicating liquor manufactured under this section shall not be sold or offered for sale. Came here to post this. Screw the .gov And I might or might not own 2 stills..... |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 1:31:59 AM EDT
[#40]
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FedGov: §1.21 Domestic producers, rectifiers, blenders, and warehousemen. No person, except pursuant to a basic permit issued under the Act, shall: (a) Engage in the business of distilling distilled spirits, producing wine, rectifying or blending distilled spirits or wine, or bottling, or warehousing and bottling, distilled spirits; or (b) While so engaged, sell, offer or deliver for sale, contract to sell, or ship, in interstate or foreign commerce, directly or indirectly or through an affiliate, distilled spirits or wine so distilled, produced, rectified, blended, or bottled, or warehoused and bottled. http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=fd8b0ad16b93584273aefb7460a98eb4&rgn=div5&view=text&node=27:1.0.1.1.1&idno=27#se27.1.1_121 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Missouri: 311.055. 1. No person at least twenty-one years of age shall be required to obtain a license to manufacture intoxicating liquor, as defined in section 311.020, for personal or family use. The aggregate amount of intoxicating liquor manufactured per household shall not exceed two hundred gallons per calendar year if there are two or more persons over the age of twenty-one years in such household, or one hundred gallons per calendar year if there is only one person over the age of twenty-one years in such household. Any intoxicating liquor manufactured under this section shall not be sold or offered for sale. FedGov: §1.21 Domestic producers, rectifiers, blenders, and warehousemen. No person, except pursuant to a basic permit issued under the Act, shall: (a) Engage in the business of distilling distilled spirits, producing wine, rectifying or blending distilled spirits or wine, or bottling, or warehousing and bottling, distilled spirits; or (b) While so engaged, sell, offer or deliver for sale, contract to sell, or ship, in interstate or foreign commerce, directly or indirectly or through an affiliate, distilled spirits or wine so distilled, produced, rectified, blended, or bottled, or warehoused and bottled. http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=fd8b0ad16b93584273aefb7460a98eb4&rgn=div5&view=text&node=27:1.0.1.1.1&idno=27#se27.1.1_121 The TTB has only administrative power and would have to enlist state law enforcement to enforce. Technically illegal, but unenforceable in Missouri or any other state which permits distilling spirits for personal consumption. The BATFE only enforces trafficking of tobacco and alcohol. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 1:46:12 AM EDT
[#41]
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What's the difference between brewing your own beer and distilling your own spirits? Blindness and death. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 7:50:50 AM EDT
[#42]
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I would like to know how to do it. I think being able to make good spirits would make for good bartering materials in SHTF. Around 10 years ago PBS had a reality show where they put 3 modern families back in a ~1850 setting, they were each allowed to bring a single item with them to make their lives easier but otherwise they showed up in a wagon with the (period) clothes on their back and some basic supplies. One guy chose a still and just sat around all day drinking his 'shine and selling it to the shopkeeper under the table while the other husbands were busting their asses to make money. 
Kharn |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 8:46:15 AM EDT
[#43]
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Because the man doesn't trust you with your own booze. The man doesn't care about your booze, he wants your money.
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Posted: 11/28/2015 8:47:03 AM EDT
[#44]
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What's the difference between brewing your own beer and distilling your own spirits? $25,000 and 10 years in Federal Pound You in the Ass Prison. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 9:17:26 AM EDT
[#45]
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Around 10 years ago PBS had a reality show where they put 3 modern families back in a ~1850 setting, they were each allowed to bring a single item with them to make their lives easier but otherwise they showed up in a wagon with the (period) clothes on their back and some basic supplies. One guy chose a still and just sat around all day drinking his 'shine and selling it to the shopkeeper under the table while the other husbands were busting their asses to make money.
Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would like to know how to do it. I think being able to make good spirits would make for good bartering materials in SHTF. Around 10 years ago PBS had a reality show where they put 3 modern families back in a ~1850 setting, they were each allowed to bring a single item with them to make their lives easier but otherwise they showed up in a wagon with the (period) clothes on their back and some basic supplies. One guy chose a still and just sat around all day drinking his 'shine and selling it to the shopkeeper under the table while the other husbands were busting their asses to make money.
Kharn That show was actually fantastic. Most "preppers" should watch it to get an idea of just how much work it takes to survive in primitive conditions. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 9:17:48 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I call bullshit on this, unless it's just New York being extra retarded. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think you are allowed to distill for your personal use. You can't sell it though Beer and wine is Okay. No distilling for drinking It's illegal to concentrate alcohol by removing water by any means, including freezing. So even apple jack is illegal. I call bullshit on this, unless it's just New York being extra retarded. Nope. That is federal law, not state. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 9:24:08 AM EDT
[#47]
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Well, now you do. I didn't either up until yesterday. http://www.amazon.com/The-Whiskey-Still-Company-62003/dp/B00FOR28JA/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1448658905&sr=8-9&keywords=copper+moonshine+still The same company that offers this model also offers 2.5, 5, and for the ambitious, a 10 gallon model. All on Amazon. What I also didn't know was how illegal it was to make distilled spirits. I thought it was legal to make a few gallons a year for personal consumption, just as long as you didn't sell it. I could not have been more wrong. Multiple federal felonies to be had by doing so, and the charges overlap so they stack up quick. Why are there such extreme penalties for distilling alcohol? I thought I found a fun gift for my father. Now that I know better, no way. Thank you for your time and patience. All comments are welcomed and encouraged. Revenuers. And corporate America. Trying to keep the little man down while taxing the hell outta sin. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 9:25:35 AM EDT
[#48]
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The taxman wants his cut. He doesn't give a shit about anyone's safety. This |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 9:25:55 AM EDT
[#49]
Nice thread, Mr ATF man.
What next, "Hey where's everybody getting their untaxed cigarettes from these days?" |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 9:29:02 AM EDT
[#50]
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Actually, they were State Militia federalized by President Washington (who took personal command). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Very first use of US troops to quell a domestic uprising, the Whiskey Rebellion. Happened in 1796 if my recollection is correct. Untaxed liquor has been a no go ever since. Actually, they were State Militia federalized by President Washington (who took personal command). Had more soldiers under his direct command for that one than at any time during the revolutionary war IIRC. |
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