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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:26:07 AM EDT
[#1]
Yah but Ohms gives me wood
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:26:31 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 11/27/2015 9:28:19 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
V = I/R E=IR Easy to remember with the Eagle, the Indian, and the Rabbit 
People have been killed by as little as 4 Volts working with electroplating tanks when their skin became saturated with the plating solution.. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:01:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I hear this all the time and it's just flat out wrong. Current always flows as a function of voltage and resistance. Always. There is always a voltage that exists that causes current to flow, never the other way around. Without a sufficiently high voltage or low enough resistance, there will not be enough current to hurt you. A 12V car battery is capable of delivering hundreds of amps but is unlikely to kill you unless you do something incredibly dumb like stand barefooted in a pool of salt water with open cuts on your hands and grab the terminals. In any plausible circumstance your skin resistance is just too high for the low voltage to deliver a noticeable amount of current. Not the case for 120VAC, which can be deadly. Very high voltages that don't kill (tasers and so on) do so by only turning the voltage on for a very short amount of time, which limits the power they deliver. The more you know! FYI, 1 kv of voltage will arc about 1 tenth of and inch, 2KV 2 tenths of a inch etc. That should give you a rough idea of how much voltage is involved in a static discharge. FYI2 Power supply resistance also is at play here also, but I'm trying to keep it simple. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 10:04:14 AM EDT
[#5]
A lot of you guys would REALLY dislike working in telcos.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 11:07:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Or an electric arc furnace. The water cooled cable loops can be seen to the left of the furnace. The "bore down" starts at about 1:45.
Typical 3-phase operation for a large furnace is ~ 500 Volts and ~100,000 Amps/phase. If you look closely at the cables, you can see them swing back and forth because of the magnetic attraction between them. 
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Posted: 11/27/2015 11:25:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Old saying: 'volts jolt, mils kill."
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Posted: 11/27/2015 11:36:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
V = I/R was how I was taught. V can equal anything, depending on which sector of the ohm wheel you are on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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V = I/R Close... Ohm's law is V = I x R Nope. I = V/R.
I know, same thing, but I like the way It was originally written. V = I/R was how I was taught. V can equal anything, depending on which sector of the ohm wheel you are on. You were taught wrong. V= I * R I = V/R R = V/I Are all correct, but V=I/R is never correct. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 11:48:47 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
E=IR Easy to remember with the Eagle, the Indian, and the Rabbit http://www.electronicstheory.com/COURSES/ELECTRONICS/pic/indian.jpg People have been killed by as little as 4 Volts working with electroplating tanks when their skin became saturated with the plating solution.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
V = I/R E=IR Easy to remember with the Eagle, the Indian, and the Rabbit http://www.electronicstheory.com/COURSES/ELECTRONICS/pic/indian.jpg People have been killed by as little as 4 Volts working with electroplating tanks when their skin became saturated with the plating solution.. It's a vulture not an eagle, dammit. 
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Posted: 11/27/2015 11:51:55 AM EDT
[#10]
This electrician finds this thread to be dildos. God help anyone coming here for an answer without massive confusion.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:00:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This electrician finds this thread to be dildos. God help anyone coming here for an answer without massive confusion. Here's your sine?
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:08:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So what's going to kill me? Time. Pissing on an electric fence may not kill you but you will certainly make you think that you are dying 
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:12:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This electrician finds this thread to be dildos. God help anyone coming here for an answer without massive confusion. Please enlighten us |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:14:39 PM EDT
[#14]
They both hurt like a motherfucker.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:15:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The statement about amps might be true in the literal sense, but it fails to emphasize the danger of voltage higher than 115vac. I've personally taken 115v from arm to arm more times than I can remember, mostly just from being too comfortable around it. Is it dangerous? Yes absolutely. But step up into the realm of say 460v and take that across the chest, you're gonna be lucky to walk away from that without being seriously injured or killed. It will electrocute you through your rubber coated tools. Having said that, I've worked with plenty of people that took 480v across the chest. It fucking hurt, but they ended up being okay. I've also known people that got bit by 4,160 or 7,200 volts, and each and everyone of them died. Voltage is what should scare you. Next time I get hit with 20,000 volts or so, I will PM you afterwords. I guarantee it. It should be within a week around these parts. LOL |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:26:20 PM EDT
[#16]
You need both
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:40:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're ignoring that a very high quantity of volts can be basically harmless if the amperage is tiny. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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*sigh* No. Just no. What's incorrect? Amps are definitely what kills you. Volts are what give the amps the opportunity to kill you. A certain threshold of volts are required in a specific situation for the amps to get that chance. However, a shitload of volts without any meaningful amperage won't do much to you. You comment about tasers is completely incorrect. The taser could have constant current flow. The lack of amp output means it cannot fry you like a power line can... Though there is a chance your heart might decide to stop if you're a crack addict (note: That can happen with a normally functioning taser too). Of course it's amps that are the physical mechanism by which electricity can kill you. I'm saying that you won't get a deadly amount of amps without a deadly voltage level existing to begin with, which is what you're saying as well. You're ignoring that a very high quantity of volts can be basically harmless if the amperage is tiny. Not really... See, if I have a power supply that can produce 10,000 volts and run that trough a 10 ohm resistor then I should get 1,000 amps. But, what if the power supply can only supply 1 amp? Then I obviously get 1 amp flowing through the resistor. And if I measure the voltage output of the power supply, it has dropped from 10,000V to 10V. Ohms law is a law, not a suggestion. In the case of static electricity, you aren't getting a current through your body at all. What has happened is that you (or something else) has picked up a charge from having too many (or too few) electrons. This can give a potential of several thousand volts. But only a relatively few electrons have to make the jump to balance the charges out and the arc to your body happens very quickly which neutralizes the voltage.. Now, if you were to complete a circuit between two large objects where one had a significant charge, then it could kill you. Like with a helicopter. A hovering helicopter can act like a giant capacitor. If it's your body that completes the circuit to ground, you may well end up dead as a result. Technically it is true that it is the amps that kill you. But it's the voltage that makes the amps dangerous. It's roughly like saying that it's the bullet that kills you, but it's the velocity of the bullet that makes it dangerous. A 700 grain .50 bullet isn't going to kill you if someone tosses it to you but a 32 grain .22 bullet sure can kill you at 1,100 fps. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:46:34 PM EDT
[#18]
It's not the gun powder that kills you it's the bullet.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:53:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or an electric arc furnace. The water cooled cable loops can be seen to the left of the furnace. The "bore down" starts at about 1:45. Typical 3-phase operation for a large furnace is ~ 500 Volts and ~100,000 Amps/phase. If you look closely at the cables, you can see them swing back and forth because of the magnetic attraction between them.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j2jESz7Zl8Thing about telco power work is it's almost exclusively done hot. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:53:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you want to get pedantic, it's the power that kills you, the amount of energy deposited over an interval of time. carry on. Shit just got i^2! |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:07:05 PM EDT
[#21]
From "Eectronic Components and Measurements" by Wedlock and Roberge, currents between 100 and 200 mA cause ventricular fibrillation and death. Above 200 mA, muscular contractions are so severe that the heart is forcibly clamped and ventricular fibrillation is prevented.
Extremely high currents can also cause the body to burn and this can cause death. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:10:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
V = I/R was how I was taught. V can equal anything, depending on which sector of the ohm wheel you are on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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V = I/R Close... Ohm's law is V = I x R Nope. I = V/R.
I know, same thing, but I like the way It was originally written. V = I/R was how I was taught. V can equal anything, depending on which sector of the ohm wheel you are on. Either your teacher is retarded or you have a poor memory. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:14:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I appreciate the concern, for the most part I am one of the safest minded guys on the jobsite. But sometimes I get thrown into situations were I can't turn stuff off, or I would have to go through too much shit to find out where exactly line voltage is being fed from. It's far more simple and painless to just be extremely careful and work with live 115v in some cases. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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115 across the chest is extremely deadly. You're lucky, and you should really change your habits if you get hit by that regularly, because one of these days it will kill you. 4160 is going to burn holes in you and burn your skin with the arc flash as it fries your internal organs. I appreciate the concern, for the most part I am one of the safest minded guys on the jobsite. But sometimes I get thrown into situations were I can't turn stuff off, or I would have to go through too much shit to find out where exactly line voltage is being fed from. It's far more simple and painless to just be extremely careful and work with live 115v in some cases. That is a relative statement that is ultimately meaningless. If you are getting bit regularly, then you are doing something very wrong. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:19:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Old saying: 'volts jolt, mils kill." Mils? 0.001"? Makes no sense. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:22:01 PM EDT
[#25]
If current kills, how come I've barehanded 3000A multiple times without consequence?
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:30:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Turn it off, then verify it with a meter. Don't take chances. I don't disagree with you and that's what I do. But the last two electricians I've had here both worked hot. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:31:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Feels appropriate for this thread.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:34:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was taught a simple memory jogger... V ----------- I X R You cover the one you want to find. If you want Impedance(amperage) you cover the I and it tells you Divide Voltage by Resistance. If you want Resistance, cover the R and divide Voltage by Impedance Voltage is Impedance times Resistance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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V = I/R Close... Ohm's law is V = I x R Nope. I = V/R.
I know, same thing, but I like the way It was originally written. V = I/R was how I was taught. V can equal anything, depending on which sector of the ohm wheel you are on. I was taught a simple memory jogger... V ----------- I X R You cover the one you want to find. If you want Impedance(amperage) you cover the I and it tells you Divide Voltage by Resistance. If you want Resistance, cover the R and divide Voltage by Impedance Voltage is Impedance times Resistance. The I in your formula is current, not impedance. Impedance is a measurement of resistance, inductive reactance, and capacitive reactance. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:41:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Semantics. Current through the body vs voltage on the line.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:42:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From "Eectronic Components and Measurements" by Wedlock and Roberge, currents between 100 and 200 mA cause ventricular fibrillation and death. Above 200 mA, muscular contractions are so severe that the heart is forcibly clamped and ventricular fibrillation is prevented. Extremely high currents can also cause the body to burn and this can cause death. Example A: (Warning: electrocution) |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:42:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOTO is a way of life. I have the absolute right on a job site to refuse to work on a system of device unless I can perform ZEV and visually see the lock on the disconnect or valve. You work hot you're fired and your company can be banned. I highly urge folks working in these environments to take the OSHA 30 course and get some instruction on lockout-tagout procedures. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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115 across the chest is extremely deadly. You're lucky, and you should really change your habits if you get hit by that regularly, because one of these days it will kill you. 4160 is going to burn holes in you and burn your skin with the arc flash as it fries your internal organs. I appreciate the concern, for the most part I am one of the safest minded guys on the jobsite. But sometimes I get thrown into situations were I can't turn stuff off, or I would have to go through too much shit to find out where exactly line voltage is being fed from. It's far more simple and painless to just be extremely careful and work with live 115v in some cases. I know of a few dead people who thought like that. Ultimately, what you are doing is going to kill you. It's just a matter of time. LOTO is a way of life. I have the absolute right on a job site to refuse to work on a system of device unless I can perform ZEV and visually see the lock on the disconnect or valve. You work hot you're fired and your company can be banned. I highly urge folks working in these environments to take the OSHA 30 course and get some instruction on lockout-tagout procedures. I know lockout tag out very well. I spent most of my life working with voltage high enough to blow my arms off. People will do what they have to do to get the damn job completed. I don't shut down a jobsite just because the rule book states that I am not supposed to stand on the top rung of a ladder. The same applies for even the IBEW guys I've worked with. People do plenty of dangerous shit everyday, but you'll never hear about it because we're careful enough not to kill ourselves. That's life buddy.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:46:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP has no understanding of circuits or current paths.Standing in salt water in no way affects the circuit path from one hand to another if touching terminals on a battery. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I hear this all the time and it's just flat out wrong. Current always flows as a function of voltage and resistance. Always. There is always a voltage that exists that causes current to flow, never the other way around. Without a sufficiently high voltage or low enough resistance, there will not be enough current to hurt you. A 12V car battery is capable of delivering hundreds of amps but is unlikely to kill you unless you do something incredibly dumb like stand barefooted in a pool of salt water with open cuts on your hands and grab the terminals. In any plausible circumstance your skin resistance is just too high for the low voltage to deliver a noticeable amount of current. Not the case for 120VAC, which can be deadly. Very high voltages that don't kill (tasers and so on) do so by only turning the voltage on for a very short amount of time, which limits the power they deliver. The more you know! OP has no understanding of circuits or current paths.Standing in salt water in no way affects the circuit path from one hand to another if touching terminals on a battery. I guess low impedance parallel paths are really difficult for you to understand. Though the path to ground would only be an issue with a grounded DC power supply, not a battery. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:54:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If current kills, how come I've barehanded 3000A multiple times without consequence? Golden anus. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:56:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it blows up in your face, sure. I have never heard of a person being killed by 12 volts, and I have touched both terminals of a 12V battery with my bare hands, with no effect. Do it with a wrench, and it will be a lot more interesting.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hear this all the time and it's just flat out wrong. Current always flows as a function of voltage and resistance. Always. There is always a voltage that exists that causes current to flow, never the other way around. Without a sufficiently high voltage or low enough resistance, there will not be enough current to hurt you. A 12V car battery is capable of delivering hundreds of amps but is unlikely to kill you unless you do something incredibly dumb like stand barefooted in a pool of salt water with open cuts on your hands and grab the terminals. In any plausible circumstance your skin resistance is just too high for the low voltage to deliver a noticeable amount of current. Not the case for 120VAC, which can be deadly. Very high voltages that don't kill (tasers and so on) do so by only turning the voltage on for a very short amount of time, which limits the power they deliver. The more you know! That 12 volt battery can absolutely kill you. If it blows up in your face, sure. I have never heard of a person being killed by 12 volts, and I have touched both terminals of a 12V battery with my bare hands, with no effect. Do it with a wrench, and it will be a lot more interesting. Guy in the military was while standing waist deep in rainwater. It can kill you but very unlikely unless you create a very low resistance scenario. Or you have a heart condition i guess. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:59:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a relative statement that is ultimately meaningless. If you are getting bit regularly, then you are doing something very wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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115 across the chest is extremely deadly. You're lucky, and you should really change your habits if you get hit by that regularly, because one of these days it will kill you. 4160 is going to burn holes in you and burn your skin with the arc flash as it fries your internal organs. I appreciate the concern, for the most part I am one of the safest minded guys on the jobsite. But sometimes I get thrown into situations were I can't turn stuff off, or I would have to go through too much shit to find out where exactly line voltage is being fed from. It's far more simple and painless to just be extremely careful and work with live 115v in some cases. That is a relative statement that is ultimately meaningless. If you are getting bit regularly, then you are doing something very wrong. Try retrofitting building automation systems. You will have various unlabeled sources of 24v, 115v, and 480v inside of the same box. Many times over, breakers and switches are not labelled. We'll often find 115v being piggy backed off lighting systems or other sources it's not designated to be fed from, and I can't just start flipping breakers inside of an occupied hospital or DoD command center, or other high profile occupied buildings. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:00:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess low impedance parallel paths are really difficult for you to understand. Though the path to ground would only be an issue with a grounded DC power supply, not a battery. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hear this all the time and it's just flat out wrong. Current always flows as a function of voltage and resistance. Always. There is always a voltage that exists that causes current to flow, never the other way around. Without a sufficiently high voltage or low enough resistance, there will not be enough current to hurt you. A 12V car battery is capable of delivering hundreds of amps but is unlikely to kill you unless you do something incredibly dumb like stand barefooted in a pool of salt water with open cuts on your hands and grab the terminals. In any plausible circumstance your skin resistance is just too high for the low voltage to deliver a noticeable amount of current. Not the case for 120VAC, which can be deadly. Very high voltages that don't kill (tasers and so on) do so by only turning the voltage on for a very short amount of time, which limits the power they deliver. The more you know! OP has no understanding of circuits or current paths.Standing in salt water in no way affects the circuit path from one hand to another if touching terminals on a battery. I guess low impedance parallel paths are really difficult for you to understand. Though the path to ground would only be an issue with a grounded DC power supply, not a battery. Resistance is futile. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:01:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: K. What is your point? What is your mission? |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:17:40 PM EDT
[#38]
You are all half right. Here's how to find the answer:
The OUTPUT impedance has to << to the INPUT impedance of the body for lethal current to flow. A boost regulator from a AA battery has very high output impedance, and thus cannot source 20mA through vital organs. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:26:03 PM EDT
[#39]
I tend to respect it all.
Yes certain voltages/amperage combos may not hurt you. But why push your luck |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:38:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really... See, if I have a power supply that can produce 10,000 volts and run that trough a 10 ohm resistor then I should get 1,000 amps. But, what if the power supply can only supply 1 amp? Then I obviously get 1 amp flowing through the resistor. And if I measure the voltage output of the power supply, it has dropped from 10,000V to 10V. Ohms law is a law, not a suggestion. In the case of static electricity, you aren't getting a current through your body at all. What has happened is that you (or something else) has picked up a charge from having too many (or too few) electrons. This can give a potential of several thousand volts. But only a relatively few electrons have to make the jump to balance the charges out and the arc to your body happens very quickly which neutralizes the voltage.. Now, if you were to complete a circuit between two large objects where one had a significant charge, then it could kill you. Like with a helicopter. A hovering helicopter can act like a giant capacitor. If it's your body that completes the circuit to ground, you may well end up dead as a result. Technically it is true that it is the amps that kill you. But it's the voltage that makes the amps dangerous. It's roughly like saying that it's the bullet that kills you, but it's the velocity of the bullet that makes it dangerous. A 700 grain .50 bullet isn't going to kill you if someone tosses it to you but a 32 grain .22 bullet sure can kill you at 1,100 fps. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's incorrect? Amps are definitely what kills you. Volts are what give the amps the opportunity to kill you. A certain threshold of volts are required in a specific situation for the amps to get that chance. However, a shitload of volts without any meaningful amperage won't do much to you. You comment about tasers is completely incorrect. The taser could have constant current flow. The lack of amp output means it cannot fry you like a power line can... Though there is a chance your heart might decide to stop if you're a crack addict (note: That can happen with a normally functioning taser too). Of course it's amps that are the physical mechanism by which electricity can kill you. I'm saying that you won't get a deadly amount of amps without a deadly voltage level existing to begin with, which is what you're saying as well. You're ignoring that a very high quantity of volts can be basically harmless if the amperage is tiny. Not really... See, if I have a power supply that can produce 10,000 volts and run that trough a 10 ohm resistor then I should get 1,000 amps. But, what if the power supply can only supply 1 amp? Then I obviously get 1 amp flowing through the resistor. And if I measure the voltage output of the power supply, it has dropped from 10,000V to 10V. Ohms law is a law, not a suggestion. In the case of static electricity, you aren't getting a current through your body at all. What has happened is that you (or something else) has picked up a charge from having too many (or too few) electrons. This can give a potential of several thousand volts. But only a relatively few electrons have to make the jump to balance the charges out and the arc to your body happens very quickly which neutralizes the voltage.. Now, if you were to complete a circuit between two large objects where one had a significant charge, then it could kill you. Like with a helicopter. A hovering helicopter can act like a giant capacitor. If it's your body that completes the circuit to ground, you may well end up dead as a result. Technically it is true that it is the amps that kill you. But it's the voltage that makes the amps dangerous. It's roughly like saying that it's the bullet that kills you, but it's the velocity of the bullet that makes it dangerous. A 700 grain .50 bullet isn't going to kill you if someone tosses it to you but a 32 grain .22 bullet sure can kill you at 1,100 fps. *Sigh* A stun gun running on two AAAs isn't going to fry* you, even if it's in the 300,000 volt range. The amps just aren't there. *note I said fry, there's still a non-zero chance that your heart will stop if conditions are perfect or you're physically unwell. This has more to do with electrical interference with your nervous system than actual physical destruction; electricity has more than one way to kill you. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:38:29 PM EDT
[#41]
"How many amps are there?" "Enough to push a Train! Now shut up Penguin!" (ETA - actual facts above notwithstanding )
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:48:55 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:52:35 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The statement about amps might be true in the literal sense, but it fails to emphasize the danger of voltage higher than 115vac. I've personally taken 115v from arm to arm more times than I can remember, mostly just from being too comfortable around it. Is it dangerous? Yes absolutely. But step up into the realm of say 460v and take that across the chest, you're gonna be lucky to walk away from that without being seriously injured or killed. It will electrocute you through your rubber coated tools. Having said that, I've worked with plenty of people that took 480v across the chest. It fucking hurt, but they ended up being okay. I've also known people that got bit by 4,160 or 7,200 volts, and each and everyone of them died. Voltage is what should scare you. I know someone who was hit with around 14kV on a pole, and survived. I'm not going to go into detail, but I wouldn't have wanted to survive. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:55:34 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A stun gun running on two AAAs isn't going to fry* you, even if it's in the 300,000 volt range. The amps just aren't there. *note I said fry, there's still a non-zero chance that your heart will stop if conditions are perfect or you're physically unwell. This has more to do with electrical interference with your nervous system than actual physical destruction; electricity has more than one way to kill you. Most of the ones I've seen are either 9V or rechargeable Li-ion. But yeah, agreed. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:59:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pissing on an electric fence may not kill you but you will certainly make you think that you are dying
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So what's going to kill me? Time. Pissing on an electric fence may not kill you but you will certainly make you think that you are dying
I was never stupid enough to do that, but I can tell you that they vary a lot. I've been shocked by fences that weren't much more than a tingle, and others that almost knocked me down (grew up in farm country). |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 3:00:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to have an old Chrysler, and it came to be tune up time. After I replaced the plugs and wires, I noticed that the car was running rough, so I started checking wires. While the damn thing was running.  Oh, I found that bad spark plug wire, it knocked the tarnation outta me....
Shit hurts, to get zapped like that. If you thought old cars were bad, you should get shocked by a newer one. Much higher voltage. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 3:13:19 PM EDT
[#47]
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Try retrofitting building automation systems. You will have various unlabeled sources of 24v, 115v, and 480v inside of the same box. Many times over, breakers and switches are not labelled. We'll often find 115v being piggy backed off lighting systems or other sources it's not designated to be fed from, and I can't just start flipping breakers inside of an occupied hospital or DoD command center, or other high profile occupied buildings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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115 across the chest is extremely deadly. You're lucky, and you should really change your habits if you get hit by that regularly, because one of these days it will kill you. 4160 is going to burn holes in you and burn your skin with the arc flash as it fries your internal organs. I appreciate the concern, for the most part I am one of the safest minded guys on the jobsite. But sometimes I get thrown into situations were I can't turn stuff off, or I would have to go through too much shit to find out where exactly line voltage is being fed from. It's far more simple and painless to just be extremely careful and work with live 115v in some cases. That is a relative statement that is ultimately meaningless. If you are getting bit regularly, then you are doing something very wrong. Try retrofitting building automation systems. You will have various unlabeled sources of 24v, 115v, and 480v inside of the same box. Many times over, breakers and switches are not labelled. We'll often find 115v being piggy backed off lighting systems or other sources it's not designated to be fed from, and I can't just start flipping breakers inside of an occupied hospital or DoD command center, or other high profile occupied buildings. have you ever wanted to just short it then go look for the tripped breaker 
need to make somthing safe to do that with besides a screwdriver
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Posted: 11/27/2015 3:18:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Shocking !!
Just shocking I tell you. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 3:31:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
have you ever wanted to just short it then go look for the tripped breaker
need to make somthing safe to do that with besides a screwdriver Not really. 115v tends to make lots of sparks and arcing.
A circuit toner will help you find an unlabeled breaker in many cases. But inside of building automation control cabinets, circuit toners are often times next to useless because there is so many different sources of power inside of the cabinet. I have run into instances where the quickest and most direct method to troubleshoot a ground fault in a 24vac control circuit was to keep blowing the fuse until I found the offending wire. Obviously that is a caveman method of troubleshooting. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 3:39:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And that same car is putting tens of thousands of volts through the spark plug wires, which hurts like a bitch but won't kill you. That 14ish volts on the back of the alternator can still be impressive though, due to the amperage involved. I once bumped a test light from the output terminal to ground, and burned about an inch off the test light, in an impressive shower of sparks. That will get your attention! When I was a tech, some of the other techs would snap once in a while when they got frustrated or smashed their knuckles, cursing and throwing tools and stuff. I was never one of those people, unless I got shocked. If you want to trigger me, give me 50,000 volts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I hear this all the time and it's just flat out wrong. Current always flows as a function of voltage and resistance. Always. There is always a voltage that exists that causes current to flow, never the other way around. Without a sufficiently high voltage or low enough resistance, there will not be enough current to hurt you. A 12V car battery is capable of delivering hundreds of amps but is unlikely to kill you unless you do something incredibly dumb like stand barefooted in a pool of salt water with open cuts on your hands and grab the terminals. In any plausible circumstance your skin resistance is just too high for the low voltage to deliver a noticeable amount of current. Not the case for 120VAC, which can be deadly. Very high voltages that don't kill (tasers and so on) do so by only turning the voltage on for a very short amount of time, which limits the power they deliver. The more you know! And that same car is putting tens of thousands of volts through the spark plug wires, which hurts like a bitch but won't kill you. That 14ish volts on the back of the alternator can still be impressive though, due to the amperage involved. I once bumped a test light from the output terminal to ground, and burned about an inch off the test light, in an impressive shower of sparks. That will get your attention! When I was a tech, some of the other techs would snap once in a while when they got frustrated or smashed their knuckles, cursing and throwing tools and stuff. I was never one of those people, unless I got shocked. If you want to trigger me, give me 50,000 volts. Yup, 1985, working on a '78 RamCharger, setting the dwell and did not know the coil was cracked. Buddy who cranked it for me saw the spark jump 16-20" and hit my left elbow. Was inside the bay, it was pouring rain, and BAM! I woke up to his laughing ass and hurting like hell. It was 12-14K volts, nope, nothing minor at all. |
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