Oh, it emits? Nice.

I think you missed the reference.

I think they are also multi stage and come in ballisticly at 6 and a half times the speed of sound.. Not sure i want to be in a AWACs with those zipping around the sky either..

It is, and it's still strategically important.

S400?  Oh you mean the first thing we blow up with a JASM-ER? I'm thinking 2000 lbs of high explosive on the command vehicle should make the actual missles pretty harmless.

Why the focus on the technology? Tactics are at least as important. Bone launches the JASM from 40k over the med, growers jam the balls off the s400 sensors...while Ivan is trying to burn through the jamming and not believing any of the target data he is seeing, a ton of really smart, really hard to detect whup ass is heading in. Flying low I don't see how the S400 detects JASM in time enough to matter.

Guilty

Mach 14 is max speed Depending on Missile The S400 uses Holy Fuck

Missiles[edit]

The 40N6 very long range missile is capable of destroying airborne targets at ranges up to 400 km (250 mi). Active radar homing head. (expected in 2012)[35] To engage targets out of sight from the ground (for homing missile can) is designed to find the target.[26] System S - 400 can hit targets at a height of 185 km.[36]
The 48N6DM long range missile is capable of destroying airborne targets at ranges up to 250 km (160 mi). Semi-active radar homing head.
The 48H6E3/48H6E2 – The 250/200 km, target speed 4,800 metres per second (17,000 km/h; 11,000 mph; Mach 14)/2,800 metres per second (10,000 km/h; 6,300 mph; Mach 8.2), rocket speed 2,000 metres per second (7,200 km/h; 4,500 mph; Mach 5.9).[14]
The 9M96E2[37] extended range missile is capable of destroying airborne targets at ranges up to 120 km (75 mi), flying altitude 5 m to 30 km,. It has the highest hit probability against fast, manoeuvrable targets such as fighter aircraft. Weight 420 kg. Active radar homing head. The probability for single missile to destroy the target without taking into account the operational reliability is: (piloted stealth / UAV) of is actively maneuvering = 0.9 / 0.8.[12]
The 9M96E medium range missile (40 km), flying altitude 20 km, weight 333 kg. Active radar homing head.[38]
The 9M96(not for exporting) medium range missile. Range more 120 km, a high probability of target destruction 1 rocket (0.9 for the aircraft and UAV maneuvering – 0.8). Can maneuver at a height of 35[39] km with an overload of more than 20 g, which greatly increases the efficiency of destruction of ballistic missiles medium and short range.[25]
The ABM capabilities are near the maximum allowed under the (now void) Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.
The new anti-ballistic missiles 77N6-N and 77N6-N1 to enter service in 2014 supposedly add inert/kinetic anti-ballistic capability to the system.[40] The same missiles will also be used by the S-500, which has a clearly stated anti-ICBM role.[41]
Only 1 system comprising up to eight divisions (battalions) can control up to 72 launchers, with a maximum of 384[42] missiles (including missiles with a range of less than 250 km).[43][44] The missile is fired by a gas system from the launch tube and sent off more than 30 meters into the air before the rocket motor ignites.This increases the maximum range, and decreases the minimum.[26] In practical shooting 9M96 versions using Active Radar Homing has reached a height of 56 km .[45][46] All the missiles are directed explosion warhead, it increases the chance of complete destruction goals.[47] In April 2015 a successful test of the missile at a range of 400 km, the target is destroyed at maximum range.[48][49]

S400 video interesting system

Where are you getting 20 million from?

Anyways it doesn't matter if you have 100 million, if you can't get them from point A to B and sustain them, numbers don't mean much.

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The problem with this thinking and many here is that when the US and Russia go at it, it ends like this for everyone.

 

Turkey got this, they have Batman on their side.

I wonder if the -400 has eliminated the gaps that allowed Israeli jets to fly right past the Syrian -300s.

Especially considering it was developed before that happened.

I'm

And that will likely hurt Saudi Arabia the most.  It was stupid to shoot down the plane.


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From the post I quoted.


But it was a movie reference, so it's moot. That said, the U.S. has by FAR the greatest ability to project its military strength around the globe. We would be able to transport and sustain a large force much more effectively than any other nation, thanks to the last 70 years of us establishing a global military presence.

Serious question:  Obama will do this why?  I see him continue to waffle on Syria until his time in office runs out.


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Exactly what I was thinking.  


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Sorry to interrupt any Russia fellating, but seems Putin has just announced Russia will now cooperate with the anti-ISIL coalition operations.

About time.

So much for them showing us how it's done.

Maybe now a shared ACO will prevent future tragedies.

I would imagine the Russians said something similar to themselves right before they got shot down.

Considering Russia was the only country actually doing anything significant against ISIS that isn't real re-assuring to me. Does that mean they are going to fly sorties around the clock without ever dropping a bomb like the rest of the "coalition" does? When does this "coalition" start striking ISIS' allies? You know, the Gulf States, the Saudis, Turkey? When do the airstrikes against them start?

I'm kidding. I know we're all cheering for the Islamists to defeat the evil decadent Christian capitalist Russian whores.

They are majority Orthodox Christians aren't they? They are a capitalist country aren't they? Likely more capitalist than the US is at the moment, even if it is "crony" or "gangster" capitalism. It's still capitalism, they make us look like North Korea in that department. To think that Russia instituted a flat tax before we have is sickening. And Putin dumps tons of money into the Church, they aren't quite at Poland levels of Christianity but they're pretty close. Again, probably more than "we" are.

News reports suggest that perhaps was not happening.  Given politics, I cannot confirm that Russia was or was not actively going against ISIS.  However, after the downing of that airliner, Russia should have unleashed holy hell upon them.

They aren't capitalist, and anyone paying attention knows they weren't doing much against ISIS.  The U.S. and the coalition forces have been doing far more than Russia has.  Russia's main focus is on groups currently more directly threatening to the Assad regime.

They are and will. They have to secure the "good" parts of the country first. You cannot have al-Qaeda camped outside major cities while you strike at ISIS 500 miles away. You got to push from east to west. ISIS will meet some gentlemen from the Interior Ministry soon enough. It will likely end poorly considering that with all the training the FSB and Spetsnaz has, they still can't spell "Geneva Convention". How unfortunate that will be for Raqqa.

I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit on that one. And ask you to provide sources. Everything I've read and seen (even personally for a couple days) says they are one of the most capitalist counties on earth. Beaten only by Somalia and a few unimportant countries.

ETA- Unless Putin was defeated by the Commies in an emergency election and all the reforms have been pulled back. I've been watching the Lions so I haven't kept up with the news much today.

I wish more people would take a few hours to read up a bit on the end of the Ottoman Empire and have a bit of understanding as to why the countries are as comprehensive effed up and maybe even spend 15 minutes reading about Islam and ethnicities involved.

Syria is a clusterfuck for the same reason as Yugoslavia was after nobody could take the place of Tito and everyone was sick of everyone else's shit. The popular line now is to claim Assad was a benevolent secular leader who protected the minority Christians and Druze,just like his dad,which is utter bullshit. He is a dictator who relied upon leveraging groups against each other while keeping them oppressed via a police state. Your defenders of Christians and Druze killed the hell out of them in Lebanon.


France originally planned on creating many smaller states inside of what became Syria,including a coastal state for the Alawis,a place for the Druze and so forth. The Kurds did not get a place as most fell in line with the Turkish claim that there is no such thing as a Kurd,rather they are "mountain Turks",pretty similar to how many Russians say there is no such thing as a Ukrainian.

Now something even funnier is that Russia actually had a big plan for Turkey had the Bolsheviks not revolted. The Tsar was going to claim Constantinople,do a touch of ethnic cleansing and repopulate with Cossacks. This was going to guarantee that Russia could not be bottled up in the Black Sea.



To me,it is absurd to think that Assad will get to have his borders back. The Turks and Arabs aren't very likely to let this happen and it will take Russian boots to retake all that ground and quite frankly Putin isn't stupid enough to think it would be a cheap occupation. The best solution now would be either Assad is OK with having a rump state or gets replaced. Turkey gets Hatay,Jordan and Iraq get chunks,Rojava joins with Iraqi Kurdistan and the Golan officially becomes Israeli.
Would it be perfect? No. Would it still mean everyone hates each other? Yup but what else is new.



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Goddamn Commies ruin everything.

Wasn't there a touch of "returning the land to Christianity" too?

Yup, our maps will all be out of date before this latest campaign is over. Atlas makers, stand by.

 
Link to said couple of hours of reading?

I think you might like this book – "The Turks in World History" by Carter Vaughn Findley.

Start reading it for free: http://amzn.to/1NRnBsm

I think you might like this book – "The Caucasus: An Introduction" by Thomas de Waal.

Start reading it for free: http://amzn.to/1Xjj9x4

I think you might like this book – "A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East" by David Fromkin.

Start reading it for free: http://amzn.to/1Snabbq

Ottomans backed the wrong horse in WW1, some Aussies got slaughtered, France took a chunk of Ottoman empire, Britain already had a chunk and took more chunks. They started drawing lines on maps with no regards to tribes or sects of Islam and installing leaders of chunks. Lots of coups followed, some bloody, some not. Periods of peace, periods of war. Jews take over chunk of British Palestine, more war, more periods of peace, more war. Here we are, same lines still drawn, same people that hate each other stuck inside those lines. Occasionally a strong dictator can hold it all together. We get pissy and overthrow them because sometimes it takes a bit of genocide and gas to hold them together. We overthrow a few dictators, keep same lines, more war, waiting on period of peace. The end.

Holy roboposts, Batman.

But seriously the classic book on the making of the modern Middle East is that third one, "A Peace to End All Peace," and a passing familiarity with it could end a lot of GD derp.

Russia is used to getting their way; this time they didn't.

If they commit an overt act against Turkey, NATO is obligated by treaty to respond. This leaves them isolated and without many friends.

Their foot print in Syria still seems pretty light, doing something foolish could imperil their mission in Syria, whatever it is.

Remember, this occurred because Russia chose to get involved; war is hell, shit happens.

Good.. More dead snackbars

I hate the term "capitalism," and I think it's silly to insist on using a communist pejorative.

Anyhow, Russia does not have a true free market economy.  The state is still involved in many ways.  Russia is not a free state in general.

I think that is obvious. You seem to hate everything about it. Still waiting on those sources. And I don't care about freedom of the press of any of that bullshit, it has nothing to do with capitalism.

Well said.

I dont think Assad was ever really going to have to worry about losing Tartus or Latakia, the terrain favors them and its dominated by Alawites, his core supporters.

But immediately prior to Russian intervention, about the time the Iranians started pouring IRGC Quds, Ground Forces, and Hezbollah into the fight, Assad was being threatened with the loss the Hama Plain and Homs through FSA and Nusra joint offensives. Lose that ground, then the primary passage to Damascus and the rest of the country is gone. By that point, Assad would control a sliver of his country, the least valuable, and the rest would fall quickly to various anti-Assad factions (who'd then fight it out among themselves).

For those of you following this that don't understand the significance, losing Homs is like the Rebs taking Cemetary Ridge at Gettysburg. Even if they do everything else right, losing that portion loses them the battle.

Map of Syria, by province and city

To control Syria you need to control the plains.

Map of Syria, Topographic

Right now half the Aleppo and Hama Plain is held by pro-Assad forces, the rest, east and south, is controlled by anti-Assad forces. And they were about to full lose the Aleppo/Hama Plain. Russians and Iranians are preventing this, but its likely going to fail long term. Even if they defeat the anti-Assad forces openly in battle and retake the ground, it doesn't mean the enemy is defeated. The insurgents will simply melt into the background, start fighting more unconventionally, less head to head fighting, more ambushing and hit and run attacks. Nearly everything of Latakia and Tartus is Sunni dominated, Assad really doesn't stand a chance holding it unless he does so with their consent.

Assad and his dad should never really been controlling Syria anyway. The only reason they did was that many of the Alawites, including Assad Senior managed to co-opt the leadership of the Syrian Ba'ath Party, which was a pan Islamic Arab Nationalist movement. Once the Assad family controlled the military and Baath party, they controlled Syria. Through police state tactics, they purged any direct enemy and then played the rest against one another to maintain their balance of power. But it was only a matter of time before he would lose control of the Sunnis, especially after the religious revival starting in the late 80s, early 90s, courtesy of the spread of Salafist ideals, paid for by the Saudis.

You must have me confused with someone else.  I adamantly favour a free market.  

Russia still maintains a number of state economic institutions, which tend to favour firms based on political considerations.  The state still reserves the right to intervene in a number of ways, and sometimes does.  They certainly have a freer economic system than they did under the Soviet Union, but let's not pretend that they are some liberal beacon (or anything close) in terms of their economy.  It is much freer nominally than in reality.  As with much in Russia, there is the façade and then there is the reality.

Tag

This is back in July. Kinda crazy how there's people laying out on the beach and then less then 50 miles away there's a huge war going on. Seems like living under Assad's control is much better then living under moderate head choppers. You decide.





 

Uh yeah, he's a secular leader who never bothered the Christians or even the handful of Jews living there. Notice how the women can walk around freely without the head gear or male escorts. We don't like that though. We like what the Saudis tell us to like, and that is Wahhabism. A strict interpretation of the Koran is what we are going for and by God that's what we are going to get. I don't care how many TOWs we taxpayers have to pay for. We cannot allow a secular dictator to survive in the ME. We sent a strong message in 2003, apparently Assad didn't get that memo.

Women without head cover is blasphemous

A couple battalions of those with reloads could shoot down half the Turkish Air Force in short order.

It outclasses anything we have

 

 
The S400 is no joke. The interceptors can outmaneuver any airframe in the air.