User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 11/26/2015 10:50:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check their shipping, sometimes AA charges an arm and two legs to ship. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think it's cheaper from AA directly. If I'm doing the math right it's 26.5 cpr right now. The black Friday deal is buy ten boxes and get five free. Good deal on mags too. On mobile, so can't link.... Check their shipping, sometimes AA charges an arm and two legs to ship. I have 900 rounds on the way and ten elander mags. Shipping was $12 ups ground. YMMV. Order it up folks, these are great prices. AA or AIM or any retailer you like, just keep the grendel buying going! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2015 10:51:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cliffs: bimetal jacket bullets (copper-washed steel jacket, lead core) eroded the bore faster than conventional copper-alloy-jacketed bullets...but in the specific cases shown, the $ saved would more than cover barrel replacements once the erosion got to the point of noticeably hurting accuracy. Not sure if that math works out quite so well in 6.5G, though. They were also way overheating the barrels exaggerating the effects of the difference IMO. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2015 10:52:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They showed that ammo wears the barrel faster than others. It probably isn't the bullet so much as the powder/primer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just can't see shooting steel case in a gun I would build for accuracy. I would really consider a 7.62x39 PSA upper for a cheap plinking 30cal ar15, should make a great cheap "hog gun". The steel in the case is way softer than the barrel steel, I wouldn't worry about it unless someone does a good study and finds it does cause problems. That would be a good test for Gunwrighter to do. Not the case, the bimetal bullet. The Luckygunner test showed that the bimetal bullets do wear the barrel faster than copper. They showed that ammo wears the barrel faster than others. It probably isn't the bullet so much as the powder/primer. The Ruskie stuff tends to be a faster burning triple based powder. I suspect is has a higher throat temp. Plus I suspect the heat was causing the steel to start to become plastic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2015 11:09:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are the premium ar15 barrel makers and who has decent prices on them? Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2015 11:16:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Ruskie stuff tends to be a faster burning triple based powder. I suspect is has a higher throat temp. Plus I suspect the heat was causing the steel to start to become plastic. The barrel section showed wear all the way down. Also there is no way the Russian stuff has a higher max pressure than m193. It was the bullet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2015 11:19:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What are the premium ar15 barrel makers and who has decent prices on them? Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. I went with an AA 16'' lightweight mid-length fluted barrel-- $200. If you want super premium Saturn is supposed to be one of the best, but is pricey. There are others, look at Brownells, Midway, JP, ARperform, .... |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2015 11:26:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What are the premium ar15 barrel makers and who has decent prices on them? Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. Lilja Alexander Arms Precision Firearms (multiple choices) Underground Tactical If you can't find what you need from one of those sources then it doesn't exist. 
I would provide links but I'm on my phone... |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2015 11:27:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What are the premium ar15 barrel makers and who has decent prices on them? Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. I buy AR barrels from ARP and BHW. However, you have to be prepared to wait to get what you want from both companies. ARP-wait until the config you want is in stock, then wait another week for H to get around to shipping it. BHW-Makes barrels to order, many options available, 3-groove polygonal rifling, wildcats available. Going to take a while before you get it, unless you want a common configuration. For that, go to one of their partners. Both are very high quality barrels that shoot very well indeed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2015 11:31:52 PM EDT
[#9]
I have a black hole weaponry barrel with a type one bolt from their sister company tactical ammunition.
The barrel is nice. But the bolt... I had an extractor snap on me. TA shipped me a replacement but I am waffling back and forth on getting a Casen engineering bolt. Those seem to have a good reputation among users of 7.62x39 ARs. My Grendel was cobbled together from really cheap and leftover parts. It's not quite the rifle I would like it to be. Magazines are a finicky point for a couple of reasons. But with a four power scope with entirely too big a reticle I can knock down a discarded car wheel hub off the bench at 700 yards without really trying. Ergonomically it is a mess. But performance is stunning. I would love to take it down to Texas to hunt pigs with it someday. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2015 11:56:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:05:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I buy AR barrels from ARP and BHW. However, you have to be prepared to wait to get what you want from both companies. ARP-wait until the config you want is in stock, then wait another week for H to get around to shipping it. BHW-Makes barrels to order, many options available, 3-groove polygonal rifling, wildcats available. Going to take a while before you get it, unless you want a common configuration. For that, go to one of their partners. Both are very high quality barrels that shoot very well indeed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What are the premium ar15 barrel makers and who has decent prices on them? Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. I buy AR barrels from ARP and BHW. However, you have to be prepared to wait to get what you want from both companies. ARP-wait until the config you want is in stock, then wait another week for H to get around to shipping it. BHW-Makes barrels to order, many options available, 3-groove polygonal rifling, wildcats available. Going to take a while before you get it, unless you want a common configuration. For that, go to one of their partners. Both are very high quality barrels that shoot very well indeed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:13:34 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have one of ARP's last runs of 6.5GG barrels. He publicly stated years ago that he refused to make any more. Some sort of pissing contest between him and Bill Alexander IIRC Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What are the premium ar15 barrel makers and who has decent prices on them? Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. I buy AR barrels from ARP and BHW. However, you have to be prepared to wait to get what you want from both companies. ARP-wait until the config you want is in stock, then wait another week for H to get around to shipping it. BHW-Makes barrels to order, many options available, 3-groove polygonal rifling, wildcats available. Going to take a while before you get it, unless you want a common configuration. For that, go to one of their partners. Both are very high quality barrels that shoot very well indeed. Yeah, I don't pay too much attention to hissy fits, but you're right, he no longer carries 6.5G barrels. Apologies for misleading folks. And BTW, Black Hole uses the .264 LBC designation for their barrels, but as noted above, they're supposed to be offering the original Grendel design soon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:15:59 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I don't pay too much attention to hissy fits, but you're right, he no longer carries 6.5G barrels. Apologies for misleading folks. And BTW, Black Hole uses the .264 LBC designation for their barrels, but as noted above, they're supposed to be offering the original Grendel design soon. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. I buy AR barrels from ARP and BHW. However, you have to be prepared to wait to get what you want from both companies. ARP-wait until the config you want is in stock, then wait another week for H to get around to shipping it. BHW-Makes barrels to order, many options available, 3-groove polygonal rifling, wildcats available. Going to take a while before you get it, unless you want a common configuration. For that, go to one of their partners. Both are very high quality barrels that shoot very well indeed. Yeah, I don't pay too much attention to hissy fits, but you're right, he no longer carries 6.5G barrels. Apologies for misleading folks. And BTW, Black Hole uses the .264 LBC designation for their barrels, but as noted above, they're supposed to be offering the original Grendel design soon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:17:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What are the premium ar15 barrel makers and who has decent prices on them? Evidently this is a closely guarded secret. https://secure.wf-api.com/www.precisionfirearms.com/m8/6.5%20Grendel%20BHW%20Barrel%20720--6-5-grendel-bhw-barrel-720.html |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:27:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How does that work? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just can't see shooting steel case in a gun I would build for accuracy. I would really consider a 7.62x39 PSA upper for a cheap plinking 30cal ar15, should make a great cheap "hog gun". The steel in the case is way softer than the barrel steel, I wouldn't worry about it unless someone does a good study and finds it does cause problems. That would be a good test for Gunwrighter to do. Not the case, the bimetal bullet. The Luckygunner test showed that the bimetal bullets do wear the barrel faster than copper. They showed that ammo wears the barrel faster than others. It probably isn't the bullet so much as the powder/primer. How does that work? Some powders have a much higher flame temperature than others and primers can have more abrasive material in them. There were just too many other variables to blame the bullets, though since that's all that ammo are loaded with, it's a bit moot.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:36:14 AM EDT
[#16]
But we know that russian steel cased ammo doesn't have a higher pressure or gas volume than M193.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:12:55 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Link? I don't see it on their site. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
FYI, PSA was selling Hornady 120g 6.5 100 count bullets for $19 or so BF deal. That is $10 less than what I paid at the last local gun show. 
I could only go for 6 boxes. Now to find 6.5G brass on sale. Link? I don't see it on their site. Too late. OOS.
120G 6.5G 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 2:57:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But we know that russian steel cased ammo doesn't have a higher pressure or gas volume than M193. It can have a higher flame temperature without a higher peak pressure. RL-17 is known for wearing out barrels very quickly, for example, due to this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 3:06:57 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who's making bolt and barrels these days? Like tier 2 Psa prices? Tier two
J&T Distributing |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 3:12:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Ruskie stuff tends to be a faster burning triple based powder. I suspect is has a higher throat temp. Plus I suspect the heat was causing the steel to start to become plastic. The WPA steel case 6.5 Grendel doesn't use Russian powder. Its powder is shipped from Belgium and it's blended specifically for that cartridge. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 3:26:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It can have a higher flame temperature without a higher peak pressure. RL-17 is known for wearing out barrels very quickly, for example, due to this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
But we know that russian steel cased ammo doesn't have a higher pressure or gas volume than M193. It can have a higher flame temperature without a higher peak pressure. RL-17 is known for wearing out barrels very quickly, for example, due to this. So was Cordite, back in the day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 4:04:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's awesome. When can we start hanging out? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: WHERE'S THE CHEAP 300BLK? This... <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/300%20Blk/P3310569_zps77fbcf4a.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/300%20Blk/P3310569_zps77fbcf4a.jpg</a> Home cast bullets from free lead. About 10 cents a round. That's awesome. When can we start hanging out? Come on down, http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/42_Reloading.html Prepare for another hobby, see sig line. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 11:24:21 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It can have a higher flame temperature without a higher peak pressure. RL-17 is known for wearing out barrels very quickly, for example, due to this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But we know that russian steel cased ammo doesn't have a higher pressure or gas volume than M193. It can have a higher flame temperature without a higher peak pressure. RL-17 is known for wearing out barrels very quickly, for example, due to this. I am suspicious because I know that pressure and temperature are proportional. I can also plainly see in their very thorough test that the tips of the barrels were shot out in 6000 rounds compared to 10,000 with the copper jacket. There is very little pressure or temperature at the end of the barrel. So it was the bullet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 11:44:22 AM EDT
[#24]
Who makes good barrels and bolts? I have looked at the ballistics and it looks like 6.5 has around 2x the energy of 5.56 at 600-700 yd?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 11:45:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who makes good barrels and bolts? I have looked at the ballistics and it looks like 6.5 has around 2x the energy of 5.56 at 600-700 yd? Know how I know you didn't read the thread?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:02:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
AIM Surplus just sent out a email special. 20rds of 100gr 6.5 Grendel for $5.99, which comes out to a little under 30 cents per round before shipping. That puts it within striking distance of 5.45, 223 and 7.62x39. There's a very real possibility we could see it down to 25 cents or so. I am curious if we'll see many more people gain interest in it at that price, I know at 30c per round it is certainly starting to get my attention. Was already interested, and already expecting to pay $1/round. I'm not shooting steel cased stuff through my high end-ish Grendel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:31:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The barrel section showed wear all the way down. Also there is no way the Russian stuff has a higher max pressure than m193. It was the bullet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Ruskie stuff tends to be a faster burning triple based powder. I suspect is has a higher throat temp. Plus I suspect the heat was causing the steel to start to become plastic. The barrel section showed wear all the way down. Also there is no way the Russian stuff has a higher max pressure than m193. It was the bullet. Wear all the way down with alligator hide checking. Alligator hide checking is from gas cutting, not bullet erosion. I am sure the bullet wasn't helping but when you get the steel plastic from getting it too hot, it is only going to exacerbate the issue. Everybody thinks that test was authoritative but they failed to include a single control. Very flawed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:32:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am suspicious because I know that pressure and temperature are proportional. I can also plainly see in their very thorough test that the tips of the barrels were shot out in 6000 rounds compared to 10,000 with the copper jacket. There is very little pressure or temperature at the end of the barrel. So it was the bullet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But we know that russian steel cased ammo doesn't have a higher pressure or gas volume than M193. It can have a higher flame temperature without a higher peak pressure. RL-17 is known for wearing out barrels very quickly, for example, due to this. I am suspicious because I know that pressure and temperature are proportional. I can also plainly see in their very thorough test that the tips of the barrels were shot out in 6000 rounds compared to 10,000 with the copper jacket. There is very little pressure or temperature at the end of the barrel. So it was the bullet. When the bore gets that hot, it expands and lets gas blow by the bullet. This is what caused the cutting effect. They were frying those rifles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:47:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1. Not really. 2. The gun is a little cheaper. Good ammo is not. 3. Why are you even plinking with a 6.5 grendel. 4. The 308 vs Grendel charts are handpicked 6.5 loads at maximum pressure vs some off the shelf military round like M118. 308 is a better mid range choice. You can shoot 50ksi limited 6.5 bullets from a 7 lb Grendel with limited bolt life or you can shoot 60ksi 6.5 bullets from a 308 sized case from a sturdy 7-8 lb G2 platform. But some guys think, "I don't want a 260 because I can't plink with it for 30cents a round" So what. Plink with a 5.56 AR and Wolf. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As the owner of a semi auto Creedmoor and a bolt action Creedmoor, I'm pretty heavily invested into the CM. Dispite that, I'm buying Grendel ammo and parts slowly. 1- lighter 2- WAY cheaper 3- acceptable plinker with Wolf ammo 4- great midrange caliber 1. Not really. 2. The gun is a little cheaper. Good ammo is not. 3. Why are you even plinking with a 6.5 grendel. 4. The 308 vs Grendel charts are handpicked 6.5 loads at maximum pressure vs some off the shelf military round like M118. 308 is a better mid range choice. You can shoot 50ksi limited 6.5 bullets from a 7 lb Grendel with limited bolt life or you can shoot 60ksi 6.5 bullets from a 308 sized case from a sturdy 7-8 lb G2 platform. But some guys think, "I don't want a 260 because I can't plink with it for 30cents a round" So what. Plink with a 5.56 AR and Wolf. I have both calibers in gas guns. I recently pulled the optics and mount of my .260 gasser because I just don't shoot it anymore. Try finding factory loads in .260 Rem that work in a gas gun, as well as 6.5 CM, for $9.99/box. I exclusively hand load for the .260 Rem, and I have to stay away from that 60ksi region because brass gets ruined, as do firing pin retaining pins, extractors, firing pins, and it's even hard on the big bolts. You have to tune a gun well to run on the 6.5-08 cartridges if you go gasser. You know what the difference is performance-wise between a 22" .260 Rem gasser with max loads that ruins parts and a 22" 6.5 Grendel with a factory load shooting the same bullet? 100-150yds Run it through a ballistics program. The .260 Rem with a 123gr will hit the muzzle velocity of the Grendel at anywhere from 100-150yds. My .260 Rem upper weighs more than any of my complete 6.5 Grendel rifles, and still recoils much more. Follow-up shots with the 6.5 Grendel, even without a brake, are easy, even for kids. Supersonic reach for me is over 1300yds with even my 16" Grendel with a 1/7.5" twist. I never thought I would be at this point, as I got into the Grendel hesitantly back in 2009, ready to pull out if I didn't like what I was seeing. It really grew on me when I saw what it could do at distance, with such low recoil. The low recoil gets overlooked by a lot of people. You really have to shoot it first-hand to see what I'm talking about. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:47:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Assuming your assessment is true, we would expect to see variation among the Russian ammo because their pressure curves were variable. Brown bear had a very similar pressure curve to the Federal but showed accuracy loss beginning at 4000 rounds just like the other Russians.
Maybe the steel jacket is less plastic than the copper jacket so it gives a poorer gas seal. That would allow similar gas blow by on all Russian loads and explain the barrel wear. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:49:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never thought I would be at this point, as I got into the Grendel hesitantly back in 2009, ready to pull out if I didn't like what I was seeing. It really grew on me when I saw what it could do at distance, with such low recoil. The low recoil gets overlooked by a lot of people. You really have to shoot it first-hand to see what I'm talking about. I've owned a Grendel since the first year they came out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:52:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was already interested, and already expecting to pay $1/round. I'm not shooting steel cased stuff through my high end-ish Grendel. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: AIM Surplus just sent out a email special. 20rds of 100gr 6.5 Grendel for $5.99, which comes out to a little under 30 cents per round before shipping. That puts it within striking distance of 5.45, 223 and 7.62x39. There's a very real possibility we could see it down to 25 cents or so. I am curious if we'll see many more people gain interest in it at that price, I know at 30c per round it is certainly starting to get my attention. Was already interested, and already expecting to pay $1/round. I'm not shooting steel cased stuff through my high end-ish Grendel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 12:54:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Assuming your assessment is true, we would expect to see variation among the Russian ammo because their pressure curves were variable. Brown bear had a very similar pressure curve to the Federal but showed accuracy loss beginning at 4000 rounds just like the other Russians. Maybe the steel jacket is less plastic than the copper jacket so it gives a poorer gas seal. That would allow similar gas blow by on all Russian loads and explain the barrel wear. Like I said earlier, they were cooking the living shit out of those barrels, the bores were expanding. What they did was a destructive level test that does not properly indicate normal use conditions. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:01:02 PM EDT
[#34]
There is no reason to reload with 34 factory ammo choices, other than just wanting to cash in on the savings of your existing brass.
It's harder and harder for me to justify reloading when I get the PPU 120gr BTHP load. For those that will reload anyway, it's a very easy cartridge to hand load for, and doesn't take a lot of powder per charge, so you get a lot of loads even for a 1lb keg. There's a tally going on right now covering hunting with the Grendel, including type of game, bullet used, range to animal, and distance traveled, and there are a lot of DRT's, especially with 100gr TTSX on high behind shoulder shots. There is video of sack of potatoes DRT on elk. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:04:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then reload. Cases can be made from x39 brass if need be Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: AIM Surplus just sent out a email special. 20rds of 100gr 6.5 Grendel for $5.99, which comes out to a little under 30 cents per round before shipping. That puts it within striking distance of 5.45, 223 and 7.62x39. There's a very real possibility we could see it down to 25 cents or so. I am curious if we'll see many more people gain interest in it at that price, I know at 30c per round it is certainly starting to get my attention. Was already interested, and already expecting to pay $1/round. I'm not shooting steel cased stuff through my high end-ish Grendel. With even less volume, which means working up another load. Bleh. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:06:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have both calibers in gas guns. I recently pulled the optics and mount of my .260 gasser because I just don't shoot it anymore. Try finding factory loads in .260 Rem that work in a gas gun, as well as 6.5 CM, for $9.99/box. I exclusively hand load for the .260 Rem, and I have to stay away from that 60ksi region because brass gets ruined, as do firing pin retaining pins, extractors, firing pins, and it's even hard on the big bolts. You have to tune a gun well to run on the 6.5-08 cartridges if you go gasser. You know what the difference is performance-wise between a 22" .260 Rem gasser with max loads that ruins parts and a 22" 6.5 Grendel with a factory load shooting the same bullet? 100-150yds Run it through a ballistics program. The .260 Rem with a 123gr will hit the muzzle velocity of the Grendel at anywhere from 100-150yds. My .260 Rem upper weighs more than any of my complete 6.5 Grendel rifles, and still recoils much more. Follow-up shots with the 6.5 Grendel, even without a brake, are easy, even for kids. Supersonic reach for me is over 1300yds with even my 16" Grendel with a 1/7.5" twist. I never thought I would be at this point, as I got into the Grendel hesitantly back in 2009, ready to pull out if I didn't like what I was seeing. It really grew on me when I saw what it could do at distance, with such low recoil. The low recoil gets overlooked by a lot of people. You really have to shoot it first-hand to see what I'm talking about. You are very knowledgeable on this subject, as I have read a lot of your posts both here and the 6.5 forum for my research on my own 6.5G build. Do you have some kind of stock in 6.5 Grendel? Other than your own rifles and ammo of course. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:06:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like I said earlier, they were cooking the living shit out of those barrels, the bores were expanding. What they did was a destructive level test that does not properly indicate normal use conditions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Assuming your assessment is true, we would expect to see variation among the Russian ammo because their pressure curves were variable. Brown bear had a very similar pressure curve to the Federal but showed accuracy loss beginning at 4000 rounds just like the other Russians. Maybe the steel jacket is less plastic than the copper jacket so it gives a poorer gas seal. That would allow similar gas blow by on all Russian loads and explain the barrel wear. Like I said earlier, they were cooking the living shit out of those barrels, the bores were expanding. What they did was a destructive level test that does not properly indicate normal use conditions. But you can use your gun destructively with M193 for 10,000 rounds but only half that with Russian. It gave good data. If the reason is as I stated above then you don't want to shoot this stuff in your Grendel match barrel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:08:11 PM EDT
[#38]
There is plenty of brass-cased ammo that is way less than $1/round, namely the PPU 120gr BTHP.
The first time I shot it through a Lilja 18" barrel just messing around, it grouped into .3" at 100yds, and that was a lightweight Wasp profile barrel with a gun that weighs under 8lbs with optics. Ammoseek 6.5 Grendel |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:12:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But you can use your gun destructively with M193 for 10,000 rounds but only half that with Russian. It gave good data. If the reason is as I stated above then you don't want to shoot this stuff in your Grendel match barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Assuming your assessment is true, we would expect to see variation among the Russian ammo because their pressure curves were variable. Brown bear had a very similar pressure curve to the Federal but showed accuracy loss beginning at 4000 rounds just like the other Russians. Maybe the steel jacket is less plastic than the copper jacket so it gives a poorer gas seal. That would allow similar gas blow by on all Russian loads and explain the barrel wear. Like I said earlier, they were cooking the living shit out of those barrels, the bores were expanding. What they did was a destructive level test that does not properly indicate normal use conditions. But you can use your gun destructively with M193 for 10,000 rounds but only half that with Russian. It gave good data. If the reason is as I stated above then you don't want to shoot this stuff in your Grendel match barrel. You are assuming the results scale down in a linear fashion and this may be far from true. The lack of a control means you cannot make that assumption. Wear could greatly accelerate at a point where the temp exceeds a certain point. Plus I have a training rifle with about 7K of Brown and Silver Bear 62 Grain Steel Jacketed ammo thru it on top of another 7K of copper jacket ammo and it still shoot fine and the bore erosion gauge is still only halfway to the initial reject mark. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:15:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK now I have to ask.... You are very knowledgeable on this subject, as I have read a lot of your posts both here and the 6.5 forum for my research on my own 6.5G build. Do you have some kind of stock in 6.5 Grendel? Other than your own rifles and ammo of course.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have both calibers in gas guns. I recently pulled the optics and mount of my .260 gasser because I just don't shoot it anymore. Try finding factory loads in .260 Rem that work in a gas gun, as well as 6.5 CM, for $9.99/box. I exclusively hand load for the .260 Rem, and I have to stay away from that 60ksi region because brass gets ruined, as do firing pin retaining pins, extractors, firing pins, and it's even hard on the big bolts. You have to tune a gun well to run on the 6.5-08 cartridges if you go gasser. You know what the difference is performance-wise between a 22" .260 Rem gasser with max loads that ruins parts and a 22" 6.5 Grendel with a factory load shooting the same bullet? 100-150yds Run it through a ballistics program. The .260 Rem with a 123gr will hit the muzzle velocity of the Grendel at anywhere from 100-150yds. My .260 Rem upper weighs more than any of my complete 6.5 Grendel rifles, and still recoils much more. Follow-up shots with the 6.5 Grendel, even without a brake, are easy, even for kids. Supersonic reach for me is over 1300yds with even my 16" Grendel with a 1/7.5" twist. I never thought I would be at this point, as I got into the Grendel hesitantly back in 2009, ready to pull out if I didn't like what I was seeing. It really grew on me when I saw what it could do at distance, with such low recoil. The low recoil gets overlooked by a lot of people. You really have to shoot it first-hand to see what I'm talking about. You are very knowledgeable on this subject, as I have read a lot of your posts both here and the 6.5 forum for my research on my own 6.5G build. Do you have some kind of stock in 6.5 Grendel? Other than your own rifles and ammo of course.
It's purely performance driven from an end-user experience. I co-authored 2 reloading handbooks for it, and sell those, but ask anyone about making money selling books to a niche market within a niche market and they will laugh in your face. That has been pretty much a labor of love as I saw a need for a new type of handbook, and worked with some other highly competent guys to put them together and make them a reality. If I was pushing them based on financial incentives looking out for me, I wouldn't be talking about how there are 34 factory loads, and you don't really need to reload for it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:16:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then reload. Cases can be made from x39 brass if need be Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
AIM Surplus just sent out a email special. 20rds of 100gr 6.5 Grendel for $5.99, which comes out to a little under 30 cents per round before shipping. That puts it within striking distance of 5.45, 223 and 7.62x39. There's a very real possibility we could see it down to 25 cents or so. I am curious if we'll see many more people gain interest in it at that price, I know at 30c per round it is certainly starting to get my attention. Was already interested, and already expecting to pay $1/round. I'm not shooting steel cased stuff through my high end-ish Grendel. What problem would reloading solve for me when I am fine with paying $1/round for decent factory ammo? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:24:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With even less volume, which means working up another load. Bleh. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: AIM Surplus just sent out a email special. 20rds of 100gr 6.5 Grendel for $5.99, which comes out to a little under 30 cents per round before shipping. That puts it within striking distance of 5.45, 223 and 7.62x39. There's a very real possibility we could see it down to 25 cents or so. I am curious if we'll see many more people gain interest in it at that price, I know at 30c per round it is certainly starting to get my attention. Was already interested, and already expecting to pay $1/round. I'm not shooting steel cased stuff through my high end-ish Grendel. With even less volume, which means working up another load. Bleh. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:30:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What problem would reloading solve for me when I am fine with paying $1/round for decent factory ammo? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: AIM Surplus just sent out a email special. 20rds of 100gr 6.5 Grendel for $5.99, which comes out to a little under 30 cents per round before shipping. That puts it within striking distance of 5.45, 223 and 7.62x39. There's a very real possibility we could see it down to 25 cents or so. I am curious if we'll see many more people gain interest in it at that price, I know at 30c per round it is certainly starting to get my attention. Was already interested, and already expecting to pay $1/round. I'm not shooting steel cased stuff through my high end-ish Grendel. What problem would reloading solve for me when I am fine with paying $1/round for decent factory ammo? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:37:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fine tuned loads for your rifle if you're trying to wring out evry last smidgen of accuracy. That and lighter loads. Most of what I've seen in 100, 120 and 123gr ammo for sale, nothing in the 90 gr category if that's to your liking. If you're fine paying $1 a round by all means have it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
AIM Surplus just sent out a email special. 20rds of 100gr 6.5 Grendel for $5.99, which comes out to a little under 30 cents per round before shipping. That puts it within striking distance of 5.45, 223 and 7.62x39. There's a very real possibility we could see it down to 25 cents or so. I am curious if we'll see many more people gain interest in it at that price, I know at 30c per round it is certainly starting to get my attention. Was already interested, and already expecting to pay $1/round. I'm not shooting steel cased stuff through my high end-ish Grendel. What problem would reloading solve for me when I am fine with paying $1/round for decent factory ammo? Sure, I'm just not to the skill level where I'm gonna exceed the potential of good factory ammo through a Satern cut-rifled barrel... |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 1:49:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then reload. Cases can be made from x39 brass if need be Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
AIM Surplus just sent out a email special. 20rds of 100gr 6.5 Grendel for $5.99, which comes out to a little under 30 cents per round before shipping. That puts it within striking distance of 5.45, 223 and 7.62x39. There's a very real possibility we could see it down to 25 cents or so. I am curious if we'll see many more people gain interest in it at that price, I know at 30c per round it is certainly starting to get my attention. Was already interested, and already expecting to pay $1/round. I'm not shooting steel cased stuff through my high end-ish Grendel. Like all the steel cases in Dryflash's loading block.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 2:11:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's purely performance driven from an end-user experience. I co-authored 2 reloading handbooks for it, and sell those, but ask anyone about making money selling books to a niche market within a niche market and they will laugh in your face. That has been pretty much a labor of love as I saw a need for a new type of handbook, and worked with some other highly competent guys to put them together and make them a reality. If I was pushing them based on financial incentives looking out for me, I wouldn't be talking about how there are 34 factory loads, and you don't really need to reload for it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have both calibers in gas guns. I recently pulled the optics and mount of my .260 gasser because I just don't shoot it anymore. Try finding factory loads in .260 Rem that work in a gas gun, as well as 6.5 CM, for $9.99/box. I exclusively hand load for the .260 Rem, and I have to stay away from that 60ksi region because brass gets ruined, as do firing pin retaining pins, extractors, firing pins, and it's even hard on the big bolts. You have to tune a gun well to run on the 6.5-08 cartridges if you go gasser. You know what the difference is performance-wise between a 22" .260 Rem gasser with max loads that ruins parts and a 22" 6.5 Grendel with a factory load shooting the same bullet? 100-150yds Run it through a ballistics program. The .260 Rem with a 123gr will hit the muzzle velocity of the Grendel at anywhere from 100-150yds. My .260 Rem upper weighs more than any of my complete 6.5 Grendel rifles, and still recoils much more. Follow-up shots with the 6.5 Grendel, even without a brake, are easy, even for kids. Supersonic reach for me is over 1300yds with even my 16" Grendel with a 1/7.5" twist. I never thought I would be at this point, as I got into the Grendel hesitantly back in 2009, ready to pull out if I didn't like what I was seeing. It really grew on me when I saw what it could do at distance, with such low recoil. The low recoil gets overlooked by a lot of people. You really have to shoot it first-hand to see what I'm talking about. You are very knowledgeable on this subject, as I have read a lot of your posts both here and the 6.5 forum for my research on my own 6.5G build. Do you have some kind of stock in 6.5 Grendel? Other than your own rifles and ammo of course. It's purely performance driven from an end-user experience. I co-authored 2 reloading handbooks for it, and sell those, but ask anyone about making money selling books to a niche market within a niche market and they will laugh in your face. That has been pretty much a labor of love as I saw a need for a new type of handbook, and worked with some other highly competent guys to put them together and make them a reality. If I was pushing them based on financial incentives looking out for me, I wouldn't be talking about how there are 34 factory loads, and you don't really need to reload for it. The thing holding me back from Grendel was always the question of available ammo. Now that I can get it online I decided there is nothing holding me back on this cartridge. I buy 90%+ of my ammo online anyways, so it really doesn't matter if wallyworld stocks it or not. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 2:46:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We get it, you don't like the cartridge. Why are you here? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: AIM Surplus just sent out a email special. 20rds of 100gr 6.5 Grendel for $5.99, which comes out to a little under 30 cents per round before shipping. That puts it within striking distance of 5.45, 223 and 7.62x39. There's a very real possibility we could see it down to 25 cents or so. I am curious if we'll see many more people gain interest in it at that price, I know at 30c per round it is certainly starting to get my attention. Was already interested, and already expecting to pay $1/round. I'm not shooting steel cased stuff through my high end-ish Grendel. With even less volume, which means working up another load. Bleh. To contribute facts. Do you dispute my above statement? It's true. I've been reloading for the Grendel for years. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 3:00:34 PM EDT
[#48]
With all the different sources of Grendel brass dating back for years now, there is no reason to mess with 7.62x39 fire-formed brass.
Lapua Norma Nosler (my understanding is that Norma has made some for Nosler) Hornady PPU You want brass that will last many loads, even exceeding many bolt gun cycles, get the Lapua or Nosler. You want cheap brass that you can sacrifice on a hunt, the PPU is great for that. As to buying ammo, I haven't bought off-the-shelf rifle ammo in a long time, especially from China Mart. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2015 9:06:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay I open the question to anyone... who makes excellent 6.5 Grendel barrel and bolt combos? 18-20" is my goal. I have a 20" Shilen that is the most accurate gun I own. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/28/2015 10:07:25 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay I open the question to anyone... who makes excellent 6.5 Grendel barrel and bolt combos? 18-20" is my goal. They're apparently still getting things together, but Black Hole is going to start selling their own Grendel barrel with a beefed up bolt, which will be matched to the barrel/extension. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/678435_Black_Hole_6_5_Grendels_Coming.html |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
