After watching the footage of the Kent State shootings, Bobby Jay, then seventeen, signed up for the National Guard so that he, too, could shoot college students.

ETA: Bobby Jay owns page 3.

Garands and 45s - not carbines.

Not with an edit he doesn't.

No, Bobby Jay, no.

If Cambodia cannot or will not prevent a hostile party form using its territory to move supplies and launch attacks, then Cambodia has lost the right to NOt be invaded.

Plus didn't Nixon have the consent of Cambodia to go in?

Pretty much this.

The bullet hole in the sculpture is still there, sunshine.  Guess what?  It didn't come from the Guard - it goes the other way.

How well do you shoot in a gas mask?

Innocent people got shot - no doubt.  The ones looting, rioting and burning are to blame.

Throw rocks at soldiers in 1770: Heroic martyrs of liberty.
Throw rocks at soldiers in 1970: Hippie fucks! Git some! Git some!

A bunch of poorly trained soldiers with rifles, shooting with masks on..in a crowded area with innocent people around.

And no one was held responsible.

Outstanding.

I had an uncle who was there that day. He was a guardsman.

It's certainly a bizarre mindset indeed, but one that's "useful" to those who would establish the sort of government that can perpetrate a Kent State shooting, a Ruby Ridge and a Waco....... and nobody in a position of authority is in any way to blame for the deaths of Americans at their hands.

Feel free to pass it along

 
Kent State: rioters burning down buildings.




Ruby Ridge and Waco: people in their homes.






Big difference.




I'm not defending the target selection at Kent State, because it was a cluster.




however, had they been able to discriminate and hit the legit rioters, I'd have been all for it.




And would be in every like situation.




 

Jane,  those of us old enough to remember the VN war protests on campuses (and maybe witnessed a few) cannot explain to most of the young'uns on here what the situation was like.

I was in school at the end of the VN era protests.  I remember walking to class and seeing  some protesters clamoring about some sort of injustice they thought was occurring.  I didn't care.  I was too busy getting an education to waste time on that extra-curricular activity, and my major was almost part of the "military-industrial complex" anyhow (engineering).

But if the NG had been on my campus in the right spot, and had unfortunately discharged M1's in the right direction, someone such as myself, may dozens, perhaps 100+ yards, from the melee could have sucked down a 150gr. ball bullet.  We would have been innocent students, caught in the crossfire between those trying to keep the peace, and those agitating, sometimes violently.  Would our deaths be justified?

Any one who says "yes", I REALLY want to hear a cogent explanation.

For those of you who were not there at that time, it's hard to explain how parties who had NO involvement one way or the other could get impacted by the shenanigans going on.

Get the fuck out of here with your Evidence and shit.......

I think Nick Saban was at Kent State that day, as a student.

Maybe if the Kent PD and State police did their job then the Nat'l Guard shooters, state employees, would have faced justice.

VooDoo3dfx is only arguing this as a defense mechanism, to try to show case the hypocrisy of criticism in LEO brutality threads compared to military. He does this in any possible thread involving military war crimes, hoping he can prove that the military doesn't police our own.

If you're going to shoot people, it's pretty important to shoot the right people.  If you can't do that, it's best not to shoot people at all.

One doesn't excuse the other.

Nice try.

Lulz.

I don't need to prove what even some military members here have said.

Nice try.

Look up how the National Guard functions. It was the governor and state AG, as well as state police and town PD, who had control over that company of Ohio Nat'l Guard. All of them could have insisted on a trial. They were the ones who failed to try those soldiers and their commander for murder.

Go troll another thread.

You should know your history.

The hippies were definitely communist agitators in the wrong, the national guard definitely fucked up bad.  It's history, and as the OP said it should be one of many instant responses to ban-gun nonsense.

And others didn't. Still better odds than an arfcom police brutality thread.

Keep up the good fight, I'm sure your gotcha methods will make people love arfcom LEO more.

No trial, not enough evidence. Whose job is it too collect evidence? Mailmen? Accountants? Teachers? Police? Yep, pretty sure the latter. So the cops failed, they walked. Nice job police.

Grand jury obviously disagreed.

Grand juries only matter in cases that confirm his bias.  

My bad.

Whose job was it to collect evidence for the grand jury?

A. Police detective
B. Car mechanic
C. Infantry battalion commander
D. School teacher

Your boys in blue fucked up, allowing boys in green to walk. So why you so angry? Take it up with Ohio State Police, that dropped the ball.

Yeah, every other thread with a cop being cleared by a GJ its justice but being charged as a travesty.  

Uh...Grand jury indicted. They said there was enough evidence.  One lonely judge decided, not a trial where it should have gone.

I don't get it either

he should just change his avatar to a Baby Harp Seal at this point

The facts include only two of those killed were involved in the protests, the average distance was 106 meters, and one of the victims was an Army ROTC cadet shot in the back.

Sorry, I forgot that arson, trashing buildings and throwing rocks and molotovs were protected by the first amendment.

I had a brother who was a student at Kent when this happened.  My mothers opinion based on what she knew was they should have shot more.

There were probably people there that needed shooting, unfortunately it doesn't look like they hit very many of those. For more it really boils down to poorly trained people thrust into a volatile, stressful, and confusing situation.

Unfortunately NONE of the ones actually doing that are the ones who got Shot.... As i posted earlier, there were folks there who ABSOLUTELY Deserved to be shot IMO...but instead you had a platoon of Woefully untrained and Inexperienced Cyril Fuggus's

You guys hired a brony? LoL

That must have been a hoot

Same article I linked on page 1:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/04/new-light-shed-on-kent-state-killings/?page=all



First, let's have a time line.

April 1968: Students for a Democratic Society occupy the administration buildings at Columbia University in New York City along with members of Columbia's Student Afro Society. The mix of stupid white kids and stupid black kids almost turns into a race riot.

August 1968 Democrat nomination convention in Chicago with accompanying riots. SDS was one of the main organizers. Aside from that HBO movie that tried to make Abbie Hoffmann and Tom Hayden look brainy, the kiddies held a nice riot and the Chicago Police probably had as much to do with that as the people from SDS. (Hoffman was a blithering idiot. I had to photograph him for the student newspaper at William Paterson, so I listened to as much of his lecture as I could tolerate before I had to go drink. Hoffman couldn't speak in complete sentences.) Bobby Seale of the Black Panthers was also included in that group, another peaceful protest organization...

This led to:

Autumn, 1968: People like Mark Rudd, Bernardine Dohrn, Bill Ayers, and Ted Gold split from SDS because SDS wasn't violent enough. Rudd and Gold were organizers of the Columbia occupation.

July, 1969: The Weathermen go to Cuba to meet with the North Vietnamese. Presumably they did not discuss representative democracy and the sanctity of property rights because:

Autumn 1969: Mark Rudd, Ted Gold, and whatever other Weathermen go back to Columbia University where they go to parties, wait until their former fellow students are half drunk and asleep, and rip them off for cash, check books, and the occasional credit card. See Cathy Willkerson's book, How to fund the revolution when you can't ask your extremely wealthy mommy to buy some bombs for you.

October, 1969: The Weathermen organize the Days Of Rage, which was essentially a riot in Chicago to protest the trials of the 1968 riot organizers.

March, 1970: The Wilkerson family's Greenwich Village townhouse explodes after the Weathermen turn it into a bomb factory, which bombs were intended to be concentrated dynamite studded with roofing nails and detonated at the student libraries at Columbia. The townhouse also had piles of SDS literature.

May 1, 1970:

Kent State University protesters protest peacefully at the fire they started in Kent. You can almost hear them chanting, "This fire we set has got to go, hey, hey, ho, ho."

May 2, 1970:

Peaceful protesters peacefully set fire to the ROTC building at Kent State. Ohio Governor Jim Rhodes declares martial law at Kent. It is not reported whether Governor Rhodes prefaced his announcement with, "You hippy assholes have to go, hey, hey, ho, ho."

May 3, 1970: Tear gas fired at the students at 9:00 AM and 11:00 AM.

May 4, 1970: shooting.

We like to preach situational awareness, so let's focus on that. I see three primary reasons for students to involve themselves with the protests. First, they wanted to stop the war, whether because they opposed war or they were afraid of the draft. Second, they wanted to get laid. Campus protests are a great way to meet members of the opposite sex who don't spend their time studying the Bible. Third, and this is the smallest group, they're hard core, violent assholes who like to steal and set things on fire.

Your situational awareness should tell to get away from there as fast as you can after the fires and martial law and tear gas. Most of the people belonged to the first and second groups, but if they ignored the fires, the tear gas, and the governor's declaration of martial law two days before the shooting. I can't help them.

Not supported, but understood as the tragic consequence of throwing armed troops untrained in riot tactics into a riot.



Kind of like the Boston Massacre.



 

I teach at a college; you would be amazed at the amount of history students today are unaware of.



The other day I had to give a brief overview of the Apollo 13 mission because only a couple of students had ever heard of it.



 

Yyyeeeehawww grab my beer god damn fucking hippies lets kill em!

They don't, and won't, care.   They're convinced that they're not going to be the ones on the receiving end.

If you can't see the difference between Nazi Germany and 2,000 students who were ordered to go away after they set fires on two nights and threw rocks and bottles at the cops, you have a confusion.

I don't think Rhodes actually did declare martial law. I believe he told the the press he was going to declare a state of emergency but never did.

They had M1s and at least one of those killed wasn't even involved.

At least learn some history before you post.

Molotov cocktails?