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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:03:24 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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get the government out of it entirely and this will self correct. This. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:03:58 AM EDT
[#2]
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According to wiki, 7 MILLION student loans are currently in default. If that figure is anywhere near accurate, the majority would NOT get paid off as agreed. And since we are talking about making them dischargeable through bankruptcy, that means the loans can't get sold to private collectors. The debt is erased. That is the whole point of discharging the loan. And since a huge portion of student loans are backed by the federal government, and the federal government can not default on it's obligations, those discharged loans MUST be paid by you-know-who. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Again, I understand that. But if you think the solution to this problem is to say "my bad, don't worry about your student loans, we'll just rape the taxpayers a little more next year to cover it for you" then you are also part of the problem. It's just another example of the government subsidizing poor lending practices and bad borrower decisions at the expense of the taxpayers. Even if the government never backs another student loan, ever, you still need to do something about existing loans that doesn't involve saddling taxpayers with another trillion dollars of national debt. Remember, those loans are backed by the US government. The US government can not default on it's loans. Those loans WILL get repaid, either by the borrower or the taxpayer. Assuming part of that trillion is loan guarantees (?), I would guess the majority of it would be paid off as agreed to up front. Not everybody's a scumbag, and a whole lot of folks (including me) are paying our loans just as we expected we'd have to do. The defaults could be sold off to private industry for collection. Those guys can be a bit more aggressive in their collection techniques, and a great many would probably pay up when threatened with something more than an "oh well, darn" if they refused to pay. That leaves the remaining truly bad debt, which could maybe be the shared responsibility of .gov, the collection agencies, and the schools.  According to wiki, 7 MILLION student loans are currently in default. If that figure is anywhere near accurate, the majority would NOT get paid off as agreed. And since we are talking about making them dischargeable through bankruptcy, that means the loans can't get sold to private collectors. The debt is erased. That is the whole point of discharging the loan. And since a huge portion of student loans are backed by the federal government, and the federal government can not default on it's obligations, those discharged loans MUST be paid by you-know-who. I wouldn't be in favor of discharging existing loans through bankruptcy, only new loans - to throttle back the tendency to approve new loans with nothing much more than a "please give me a big pile of money". |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:04:12 AM EDT
[#3]
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In a properly functioning market, loans for law or medical school would be REALLY hard to get (like, you might need to secure the loan with real property), and the Soprano-style points would reflect the risk...if this sort of thing were happening a lot. Sadly, they "fixed" it by saying "free markets suck - let's get favorable laws passed that make it impossible for us to ever lose money on a loan". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Good, the bankruptcy restriction on discharging student loans is retarded, or I guess I should say not in line with the rest of american jurisprudence. Same with the laws that there is no statute of limitations on student loan lawsuits. I've read that people used to take out huge loans for law or medical school, buy a car, and then declare bankruptcy as soon as they graduated. In a properly functioning market, loans for law or medical school would be REALLY hard to get (like, you might need to secure the loan with real property), and the Soprano-style points would reflect the risk...if this sort of thing were happening a lot. Sadly, they "fixed" it by saying "free markets suck - let's get favorable laws passed that make it impossible for us to ever lose money on a loan". But then only kids with well off families could get med and law school loans. Do you even social equality, bro? 
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:04:39 AM EDT
[#4]
My wife took out loans. Got a good job with her degree then paid it back. How fuckin hard is that?
At the same time though, I cant say that college loans aren't predatory lending and roundabout school subsidies. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:08:35 AM EDT
[#5]
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Fine. Create a special category of bankruptcy just for student debt. Anybody can file and be granted relief on the spot. This would cure the insane cost of secondary education on the fucking spot. Right now lenders know it's a sure thing that they'll get paid. So money is stupid easy to borrow. Colleges know it's stupid easy to get it so they jack up the prices. Financially responsible people can't afford college while idiots run up thousands in debt for liberal arts degrees to wipe asses with. Makes perfect sense. I guess that's why the left would be outraged. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:09:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't be in favor of discharging existing loans through bankruptcy, only new loans - to throttle back the tendency to approve new loans with nothing much more than a "please give me a big pile of money". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Again, I understand that. But if you think the solution to this problem is to say "my bad, don't worry about your student loans, we'll just rape the taxpayers a little more next year to cover it for you" then you are also part of the problem. It's just another example of the government subsidizing poor lending practices and bad borrower decisions at the expense of the taxpayers. Even if the government never backs another student loan, ever, you still need to do something about existing loans that doesn't involve saddling taxpayers with another trillion dollars of national debt. Remember, those loans are backed by the US government. The US government can not default on it's loans. Those loans WILL get repaid, either by the borrower or the taxpayer. Assuming part of that trillion is loan guarantees (?), I would guess the majority of it would be paid off as agreed to up front. Not everybody's a scumbag, and a whole lot of folks (including me) are paying our loans just as we expected we'd have to do. The defaults could be sold off to private industry for collection. Those guys can be a bit more aggressive in their collection techniques, and a great many would probably pay up when threatened with something more than an "oh well, darn" if they refused to pay. That leaves the remaining truly bad debt, which could maybe be the shared responsibility of .gov, the collection agencies, and the schools. According to wiki, 7 MILLION student loans are currently in default. If that figure is anywhere near accurate, the majority would NOT get paid off as agreed. And since we are talking about making them dischargeable through bankruptcy, that means the loans can't get sold to private collectors. The debt is erased. That is the whole point of discharging the loan. And since a huge portion of student loans are backed by the federal government, and the federal government can not default on it's obligations, those discharged loans MUST be paid by you-know-who. I wouldn't be in favor of discharging existing loans through bankruptcy, only new loans - to throttle back the tendency to approve new loans with nothing much more than a "please give me a big pile of money". This. I'm not asking anyone to write my loans off. Like I said, I signed on the line. I'm gonna pay them. I just don't want my son to be faced with a $200,000 for a BA/BS in a standard STEM degree. He can't work enough to pay his way through, and I won't have the ability to pay it, either. Another part of the problem is that I was raised that retail sales and the trades is for suckas and poor, dumb people. I'm currently in sales, and I'm in the process of moving into the trades. I would be thrilled if my son learned a trade and made it his life's work. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:14:54 AM EDT
[#7]
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No. I'm the sucker to taking longer to pay mine off, but still paying them off (with interest of course).
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Guess I'm a sucker for paying off my $30K of student debt I graduated with shortly 4 years after graduation (they were 10 year loans)  No. I'm the sucker to taking longer to pay mine off, but still paying them off (with interest of course).
You're both suckers because mine was free.
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:17:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's actually American jurisprudence that's retarded. The structure, amounts, and "collateral" of those student loans are unique to student loans and they should follow their own rules. The rules that those who applied for them and took the money agreed to follow. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Good, the bankruptcy restriction on discharging student loans is retarded, or I guess I should say not in line with the rest of american jurisprudence. Same with the laws that there is no statute of limitations on student loan lawsuits. It's actually American jurisprudence that's retarded. The structure, amounts, and "collateral" of those student loans are unique to student loans and they should follow their own rules. The rules that those who applied for them and took the money agreed to follow. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:18:25 AM EDT
[#9]
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I wouldn't be in favor of discharging existing loans through bankruptcy, only new loans - to throttle back the tendency to approve new loans with nothing much more than a "please give me a big pile of money". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Again, I understand that. But if you think the solution to this problem is to say "my bad, don't worry about your student loans, we'll just rape the taxpayers a little more next year to cover it for you" then you are also part of the problem. It's just another example of the government subsidizing poor lending practices and bad borrower decisions at the expense of the taxpayers. Even if the government never backs another student loan, ever, you still need to do something about existing loans that doesn't involve saddling taxpayers with another trillion dollars of national debt. Remember, those loans are backed by the US government. The US government can not default on it's loans. Those loans WILL get repaid, either by the borrower or the taxpayer. Assuming part of that trillion is loan guarantees (?), I would guess the majority of it would be paid off as agreed to up front. Not everybody's a scumbag, and a whole lot of folks (including me) are paying our loans just as we expected we'd have to do. The defaults could be sold off to private industry for collection. Those guys can be a bit more aggressive in their collection techniques, and a great many would probably pay up when threatened with something more than an "oh well, darn" if they refused to pay. That leaves the remaining truly bad debt, which could maybe be the shared responsibility of .gov, the collection agencies, and the schools. According to wiki, 7 MILLION student loans are currently in default. If that figure is anywhere near accurate, the majority would NOT get paid off as agreed. And since we are talking about making them dischargeable through bankruptcy, that means the loans can't get sold to private collectors. The debt is erased. That is the whole point of discharging the loan. And since a huge portion of student loans are backed by the federal government, and the federal government can not default on it's obligations, those discharged loans MUST be paid by you-know-who. I wouldn't be in favor of discharging existing loans through bankruptcy, only new loans - to throttle back the tendency to approve new loans with nothing much more than a "please give me a big pile of money". Then I misunderstood your post. I would still prefer something other than a blanket "student loans are dischargeable now" solution. That would solve the current problem but just reinstates the old system that apparently needed fixed, hence the current system. Maybe we should try something else before we go back to something that was broken? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:20:41 AM EDT
[#10]
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I think it is a great idea. If the banks know the debt can get erased they will be much more careful with the loans. This will cascade and force schools to lower tuition since less loans will be made. I see it as a win for all of us. People like this get it. If they dont think you will pay, they wont loan. If schools have to loan the $ then things would get a lot more interesting too. The government shouldnt be involved anyway. Its why schools can get away with charging 200k for a worthless degree in the first place. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:22:06 AM EDT
[#11]
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Current rules do create the worst possible environment. Student loan bankruptcies were a problem but right now lenders have zero incentive to vet their loans. Same shit happened with mortgagees. Colleges have no incentive to provide a quality education in order to collect high tuition. They are selling loans to clueless teenagers who have no clue about the realities of repayments. If the banks and schools were forced to deal with at least some of the repercussions of bankruptcy the problem disappear. That's the way the market should operate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Fine. Create a special category of bankruptcy just for student debt. Anybody can file and be granted relief on the spot. This would cure the insane cost of secondary education on the fucking spot. Right now lenders know it's a sure thing that they'll get paid. So money is stupid easy to borrow. Colleges know it's stupid easy to get it so they jack up the prices. Financially responsible people can't afford college while idiots run up thousands in debt for liberal arts degrees to wipe asses with. Current rules do create the worst possible environment. Student loan bankruptcies were a problem but right now lenders have zero incentive to vet their loans. Same shit happened with mortgagees. Colleges have no incentive to provide a quality education in order to collect high tuition. They are selling loans to clueless teenagers who have no clue about the realities of repayments. If the banks and schools were forced to deal with at least some of the repercussions of bankruptcy the problem disappear. That's the way the market should operate. "They" in your statement should be replaced with "The Federal Government" since they basically usurped the student loan market. Interrogative: Why would one expect the result of the government taking over student loans to turn out any differently than the housing debacle? And why should the interest rates on student loans be determined any differently than those of any other big ticket purchase? If private lenders (i.e. banks) had to eat the bad debt, getting a student loan would be no different than getting a car, home, et al loan; the bank would assess your creditworthiness and your ability to repay the loan and set rates accordingly. And in before "but that's not fair." 
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:24:31 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:25:21 AM EDT
[#13]
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I disagree. It allows deadbeats to continue being deadbeats. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Proving once again that bankruptcy shouldn't even be on the books... Actually, bankruptcy (in general) is a critical component of what makes America great. It's based on a premise that the person who is lending their own money out should carry the risk of making a bad loan. Basically, it's personal responsibility. If you're an idiot and make bad loans (when you don't HAVE to lend money), the onus is on you. A lot of great ideas would never get financing if the downside was you'd pay the rest of your life. When you borrow from "the people," It's a different story. Corruption follows. I disagree. It allows deadbeats to continue being deadbeats. You disagree based on your feelings. In the US, when you take on debt, it follows a very specific framework : That you will do your best to pay, and if you don't, the company that loaned you money can take it back if you have pledged it. So, companies, individuals, ect all lend people money at a specific rate of return TYPICALLY with the knowledge that a certain % of loans will default, of those loans, another % can be recovered, while some may not. In this system ,it allows both the lender to make money based on known and calculated risks, and a borrower to achieve capital funding without pledging away their life. If you would look at many of the wealthy entrepreneurs, ones that have changed the world, you would find that many have declared bankruptcy or defaulted on debt at some point. It allows for people to follow after big ideas (in general) without risk of prison or their families being sold (Which was the case in the past). The only thing that can happen is you lose assets or have a lien posted against your property. If you do stop paying, then all the credit agencies and the like increase your risk profile, so at some point virtually no one will lend to you. So, in the end, the deadbeats will screw themselves and not be able to get financing IF companies that have the data determine them to be too big of risks. In the end though, the big companies rarely consider anyone purely too risky, instead you just get higher and higher APR %s. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:28:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Wait, What? Did I read that right... He's 65 years old with over $100,000 in student loans?
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:31:30 AM EDT
[#15]
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This. I'm not asking anyone to write my loans off. Like I said, I signed on the line. I'm gonna pay them. I just don't want my son to be faced with a $200,000 for a BA/BS in a standard STEM degree. He can't work enough to pay his way through, and I won't have the ability to pay it, either. Another part of the problem is that I was raised that retail sales and the trades is for suckas and poor, dumb people. I'm currently in sales, and I'm in the process of moving into the trades. I would be thrilled if my son learned a trade and made it his life's work. So don't ship him off to an out of state school for $50K/year. You realize that in-state tuition at universities is low? Ohio State, for example, costs roughly 10K for in-state students. Tack on another 12K for room and board if you don't live close enough to commute. Better yet, attend one of the regional campuses where tuition is even lower, or one of the smaller state universities all over the place so he can stay at home. I can't see what state you're in but even Iowa has an engineering college. Sure, he may not be able to go to Harvard for that price and he might be stuck living with the 'rents for a few years, but that beats 200K in debt, no? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:32:01 AM EDT
[#16]
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generally takes 10 years for a Bankruptcy to go away Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Fine with me ONLY if it damages a persons credit for the rest of their life. No nice cars or houses for you! Not really. I have a friend with a chapter 7 who bought brand new homes and cars. As a matter of fact, it's like it never happened. generally takes 10 years for a Bankruptcy to go away Yep, 10 years for it to completely drop off your credit report. You can still get credit and even at a reasonable rate. If that's the only thing wrong on your credit. Many people wait until their credit is wrecked to file for bankruptcy. That is much harder to dig out from. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:36:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Here is the deal - consumer debt has a high interest rate to deal with high risk of forfeiture. Collateralized debt (cars, homes, etc...) has a lower interest rate, because the collateral can be foreclosed/repossessed. Student loans are a problem, as we want low interest rates - but there is no real way to foreclose on an education. Even after bankruptcy, the education should have some value - and because it retains value afterwards, the debt remains attached.
Unless you want your student loan debt to have a credit card rate - you really don't want to make it dischargable. --- My wife is the perfect example of what is wrong with student loans. She went to school, dropped out 2 years, went back for 4, got pregnant and dropped out again - never went back. She saddled herself and her father (who co-signed 1/2 of them) with 40k of debt and no degree after 5 years of college. Better yet, the schools put her on a funny track - having her take her major track courses first, and the standard base classes latter. Net effect, tons of high level electives that are not transferable and have expired - but few transferable Freshman and Sophomore credits. When we got married I had her get her "catalog" updated - she still needed 4 years of classes to graduate. I paid off 1/2 of her debt. Her father paid till he died (1 payment remaining - that debt died with him). |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:43:21 AM EDT
[#18]
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Then I misunderstood your post. I would still prefer something other than a blanket "student loans are dischargeable now" solution. That would solve the current problem but just reinstates the old system that apparently needed fixed, hence the current system. Maybe we should try something else before we go back to something that was broken? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wouldn't be in favor of discharging existing loans through bankruptcy, only new loans - to throttle back the tendency to approve new loans with nothing much more than a "please give me a big pile of money". Then I misunderstood your post. I would still prefer something other than a blanket "student loans are dischargeable now" solution. That would solve the current problem but just reinstates the old system that apparently needed fixed, hence the current system. Maybe we should try something else before we go back to something that was broken? Definitely. The whole system needs to change, starting with the reasons people go to college in the first place. Right now it's basically an artificially expensive, young-adult daycare, and we promote the idea of a degree - any degree - as an absolutely critical rung in the ladder to success. Societal, family and peer pressure makes it almost unthinkable not go into college as soon as you graduate high school, and a great many kids simply aren't anywhere near ready for it and doomed to fail from the start. This is a very timely thread for me, btw. I'm having a talk this very morning with my college sophomore daughter about withdrawing from school. We're honestly weighing the expense vs. any advantage a degree is likely to give her in any area she's seriously interested in, and it's coming up lacking. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:43:52 AM EDT
[#19]
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So don't ship him off to an out of state school for $50K/year. You realize that in-state tuition at universities is low? Ohio State, for example, costs roughly 10K for in-state students. Tack on another 12K for room and board if you don't live close enough to commute. Better yet, attend one of the regional campuses where tuition is even lower, or one of the smaller state universities all over the place so he can stay at home. I can't see what state you're in but even Iowa has an engineering college. Sure, he may not be able to go to Harvard for that price and he might be stuck living with the 'rents for a few years, but that beats 200K in debt, no? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This. I'm not asking anyone to write my loans off. Like I said, I signed on the line. I'm gonna pay them. I just don't want my son to be faced with a $200,000 for a BA/BS in a standard STEM degree. He can't work enough to pay his way through, and I won't have the ability to pay it, either. Another part of the problem is that I was raised that retail sales and the trades is for suckas and poor, dumb people. I'm currently in sales, and I'm in the process of moving into the trades. I would be thrilled if my son learned a trade and made it his life's work. So don't ship him off to an out of state school for $50K/year. You realize that in-state tuition at universities is low? Ohio State, for example, costs roughly 10K for in-state students. Tack on another 12K for room and board if you don't live close enough to commute. Better yet, attend one of the regional campuses where tuition is even lower, or one of the smaller state universities all over the place so he can stay at home. I can't see what state you're in but even Iowa has an engineering college. Sure, he may not be able to go to Harvard for that price and he might be stuck living with the 'rents for a few years, but that beats 200K in debt, no? Yes it does. But look at how the price of a degree has changed across the board in the last 20 years. Now think of what it will be in the next 20 as inflation shoots ever skyward, more kids are being brainwashed into the college game, and still no accountability on the shoulders of the lenders to vet the students they write the loans to. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:45:16 AM EDT
[#20]
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Here is the deal - consumer debt has a high interest rate to deal with high risk of forfeiture. Collateralized debt (cars, homes, etc...) has a lower interest rate, because the collateral can be foreclosed/repossessed. Student loans are a problem, as we want low interest rates - but there is no real way to foreclose on an education. Even after bankruptcy, the education should have some value - and because it retains value afterwards, the debt remains attached. Unless you want your student loan debt to have a credit card rate - you really don't want to make it dischargable. Sure it should have a credit card rate! Where else can you take on unsecured debt at such a low interest? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:47:35 AM EDT
[#21]
The real problem is we are brainwashed into believing every needs a college degree. Knock out the 50% who have no business in college, supply and demand will cut tuition costs and increase the value of the degrees.
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:49:52 AM EDT
[#22]
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Actually, bankruptcy (in general) is a critical component of what makes America great. It's based on a premise that the person who is lending their own money out should carry the risk of making a bad loan. Basically, it's personal responsibility. If you're an idiot and make bad loans (when you don't HAVE to lend money), the onus is on you. A lot of great ideas would never get financing if the downside was you'd pay the rest of your life. When you borrow from "the people," It's a different story. Corruption follows. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Proving once again that bankruptcy shouldn't even be on the books... Actually, bankruptcy (in general) is a critical component of what makes America great. It's based on a premise that the person who is lending their own money out should carry the risk of making a bad loan. Basically, it's personal responsibility. If you're an idiot and make bad loans (when you don't HAVE to lend money), the onus is on you. A lot of great ideas would never get financing if the downside was you'd pay the rest of your life. When you borrow from "the people," It's a different story. Corruption follows. This right here. A whole lot of derp on here by those that apparently would like to re-institute debtors prisons. A loan is a contract between 2 parties - it is not one sided and the one making the loan has just as much responsibility as the borrower. If you make a bad loan tough shit. The .gov has made it one-sided so that bad loans are guaranteed - there are lots of reasons folks go bankrupt, not just because they're "deadbeats". It was an important concept with the Founders for a reason . . . |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:53:31 AM EDT
[#23]
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Proving once again that bankruptcy shouldn't even be on the books... I deal with bankruptcy on the daily and if people can walk away from everything else screwing companies, why are these lenders getting special treatment? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:57:16 AM EDT
[#24]
SOMEONE will pay for it............he incurred the debt,he should be held liable.
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:58:31 AM EDT
[#25]
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I deal with bankruptcy on the daily and if people can walk away from everything else screwing companies, why are these lenders getting special treatment? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Proving once again that bankruptcy shouldn't even be on the books... I deal with bankruptcy on the daily and if people can walk away from everything else screwing companies, why are these lenders getting special treatment? The liberal fallacy that an education is a right, not a privilege, and it is our responsibility as taxpayers to pay for it if that's what it takes. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:59:32 AM EDT
[#26]
How about you lose the degree if you can't pay for the loan? Similar to every other item you take a loan for. Probably a stupid idea, but...
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:01:29 PM EDT
[#27]
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Yes it does. But look at how the price of a degree has changed across the board in the last 20 years. Now think of what it will be in the next 20 as inflation shoots ever skyward, more kids are being brainwashed into the college game, and still no accountability on the shoulders of the lenders to vet the students they write the loans to. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This. I'm not asking anyone to write my loans off. Like I said, I signed on the line. I'm gonna pay them. I just don't want my son to be faced with a $200,000 for a BA/BS in a standard STEM degree. He can't work enough to pay his way through, and I won't have the ability to pay it, either. Another part of the problem is that I was raised that retail sales and the trades is for suckas and poor, dumb people. I'm currently in sales, and I'm in the process of moving into the trades. I would be thrilled if my son learned a trade and made it his life's work. So don't ship him off to an out of state school for $50K/year. You realize that in-state tuition at universities is low? Ohio State, for example, costs roughly 10K for in-state students. Tack on another 12K for room and board if you don't live close enough to commute. Better yet, attend one of the regional campuses where tuition is even lower, or one of the smaller state universities all over the place so he can stay at home. I can't see what state you're in but even Iowa has an engineering college. Sure, he may not be able to go to Harvard for that price and he might be stuck living with the 'rents for a few years, but that beats 200K in debt, no? Yes it does. But look at how the price of a degree has changed across the board in the last 20 years. Now think of what it will be in the next 20 as inflation shoots ever skyward, more kids are being brainwashed into the college game, and still no accountability on the shoulders of the lenders to vet the students they write the loans to. I didn't say things don't need to change. I fully understand how much the cost of education has increased. I'm just saying that a responsible person can go to school for a lot less than the horror stories that make headlines. Those are special cases of stupid (though they are becoming increasingly more common which speaks volumes about today's culture of entitlement). |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:03:47 PM EDT
[#28]
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I worked and paid as I went..............nobody else paid it for me What decade was that? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:05:27 PM EDT
[#29]
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This right here. A whole lot of derp on here by those that apparently would like to re-institute debtors prisons. A loan is a contract between 2 parties - it is not one sided and the one making the loan has just as much responsibility as the borrower. If you make a bad loan tough shit. The .gov has made it one-sided so that bad loans are guaranteed - there are lots of reasons folks go bankrupt, not just because they're "deadbeats". It was an important concept with the Founders for a reason . . . Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Proving once again that bankruptcy shouldn't even be on the books... Actually, bankruptcy (in general) is a critical component of what makes America great. It's based on a premise that the person who is lending their own money out should carry the risk of making a bad loan. Basically, it's personal responsibility. If you're an idiot and make bad loans (when you don't HAVE to lend money), the onus is on you. A lot of great ideas would never get financing if the downside was you'd pay the rest of your life. When you borrow from "the people," It's a different story. Corruption follows. This right here. A whole lot of derp on here by those that apparently would like to re-institute debtors prisons. A loan is a contract between 2 parties - it is not one sided and the one making the loan has just as much responsibility as the borrower. If you make a bad loan tough shit. The .gov has made it one-sided so that bad loans are guaranteed - there are lots of reasons folks go bankrupt, not just because they're "deadbeats". It was an important concept with the Founders for a reason . . . So, are we in agreement that government regulation on a free market (and bankruptcy is government regulation of a free market) can, if done minimally and properly, nurture the free-market and make it better? If so, then I ask, why is bankruptcy considered a one-size-fits-all solution to the problem of lax lending standards and over-borrowing? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:09:03 PM EDT
[#30]
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This Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I want my mortgage erased, but I'm not a little bitch, so I pay the debt that I signed for. This |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:09:19 PM EDT
[#31]
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What decade was that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I worked and paid as I went..............nobody else paid it for me What decade was that? Or how many decades did it take to get completed? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:10:59 PM EDT
[#32]
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get the government out of it entirely and this will self correct. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:12:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Get the government out of student loans.
Make community college free. They're relatively cheap to run, just make them free. Then if someone wants to bitch about not being able to go to college,, point to the free colleges and say, "start here, work your way up". |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:15:31 PM EDT
[#34]
The government should get out of college business. If college is so important, just extend school for 4 more years. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:17:30 PM EDT
[#35]
Do I be gettan a rebateZ fur teh stundet's loAns i payed back!
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:17:32 PM EDT
[#36]
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Call me a commie, but I'm all for free higher education. I'd rather walk among a society educated people than lizard brains who can't think for themselves. That said - I pay my debts. 
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:17:47 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm gonna get the cash value of my MGIB back, right
Cuz apparently it would've been easier to be a freeloading shitbag and gotten my degree on someone else's dime. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:19:38 PM EDT
[#38]
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this hell show me one 18 year old who can go down to the car dealership sign on the line get a brand new 60k car and a check for 10k. with no payments if they option to do it again in a year. once you can do that the student loan debate is over. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So take out a huge college loan for the best school you can attend to get the best education you can, graduate, declare bankruptcy, get loan debt erased, get a good job with your free $300,000 dollar education, spend the next 5 years rebuilding your credit and you are living large? If student loans could be discharged in bankruptcy, there's a REALLY good chance you won't get that huge college loan to begin with, unless: 1. You have outstanding credit. And... 2. You have a shit ton of money to put down. And... 3. You have a wealthy co-signer with awesome credit. And... 4. You manage to convince the lender that the education you're asking them to finance will actually result in a career with a salary sufficient to repay them. In other words, it would be like any other large unsecured loan - hard as fuck. Similarly, if easy credit like this dried up, it's almost a given that tuition would drop like a rock over time, negating the need to take out massive loans in the first place. this hell show me one 18 year old who can go down to the car dealership sign on the line get a brand new 60k car and a check for 10k. with no payments if they option to do it again in a year. once you can do that the student loan debate is over. This is the key...just like the housing collapse, just like health care, just like... Obviously starting college students would not have all of the normal prerequisites mentioned (big down , established credit, et al) but what private lenders would do is assess the individual's ability to repay primarily based on his potential future income (i.e. chosen profession: doctor, lawyer, engineering, no worries...art history, not to much*).
* In today's job market. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:20:27 PM EDT
[#39]
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I didn't say things don't need to change. I fully understand how much the cost of education has increased. I'm just saying that a responsible person can go to school for a lot less than the horror stories that make headlines. Those are special cases of stupid (though they are becoming increasingly more common which speaks volumes about today's culture of entitlement). That is true, but even cutting costs pretty much to the bone, it's still an expensive proposition. I've got two kids enrolled right now, with a no-frills bill of about $18K/yr. each. That's a $3000/mo bill for us, and yeah, it's pretty damned hard to stay on top of. It's more than my mortgage, two car payments, and all our utilities combined. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:29:07 PM EDT
[#40]
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My wife took out loans. Got a good job with her degree then paid it back. How fuckin hard is that? At the same time though, I cant say that college loans aren't predatory lending and roundabout school subsidies. How hard is that? It's way to hard for a lot of people...or so it seems. I wouldn't say predatory so much as loose lending. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:31:12 PM EDT
[#41]
This is a good thing actually. The guy is suing because he's an irresponsible shitbag who borrowed what he couldn't or wouldn't pay back. BUT the government made the loans non-forgivable to encourage banks to give loans to bad credit risks (students) for just about about any hare-brained education they could find. So if he wins, it's actually a win for us since banks will stop giving loans to morons who want to major in Womyn's Studies or dumb shit like that.
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:33:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Like a sucker, I just keep paying my student loans. In just 10 years, I'll actually own my medical degree. I was debt-free in undergrad. My family isn't wealthy, and there wasn't a good way to work my way through med school. Oh, plus the school had structured their in-state student qualification such that it was impossible for out-of-state students to ever qualify while attending.
 Payments are about twice that of my mortgage.
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:35:30 PM EDT
[#43]
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That is true, but even cutting costs pretty much to the bone, it's still an expensive proposition. I've got two kids enrolled right now, with a no-frills bill of about $18K/yr. each. That's a $3000/mo bill for us, and yeah, it's pretty damned hard to stay on top of. It's more than my mortgage, two car payments, and all our utilities combined. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't say things don't need to change. I fully understand how much the cost of education has increased. I'm just saying that a responsible person can go to school for a lot less than the horror stories that make headlines. Those are special cases of stupid (though they are becoming increasingly more common which speaks volumes about today's culture of entitlement). That is true, but even cutting costs pretty much to the bone, it's still an expensive proposition. I've got two kids enrolled right now, with a no-frills bill of about $18K/yr. each. That's a $3000/mo bill for us, and yeah, it's pretty damned hard to stay on top of. It's more than my mortgage, two car payments, and all our utilities combined. Community college was $3k a year for me (plus books). I started there and then moved to a different school, after my AAS was completed, then got my BS. Much cheaper that way. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:36:48 PM EDT
[#44]
From 2001 through 2007, Murphy took out several Parent PLUS student loans -- federal debt parents can use to finance their kids' education -- to send his three children to college. After accruing interest, the bill ballooned to $246,500. In 2002, Murphy lost his job as president of a manufacturing company when it closed shop to move overseas. He hasn’t found work in the last 13 years, he said, because he is viewed as too old for executive posts and overqualified for lower-level jobs. He lives on the salary his wife brings in as a teacher's aide, less than $15,000 in annual income. Murphy said he dried out his retirement savings, and his home was recently foreclosed. Wonder what his president salary was. Not saying he should have but maybe some of the tuition could have come out of pocket. And I know someone asked, but where are the kids to help pay the loan he took for their benefit? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:37:41 PM EDT
[#45]
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Community college was $3k a year for me (plus books). I started there and then moved to a different school, after my AAS was completed, then got my BS. Much cheaper that way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I didn't say things don't need to change. I fully understand how much the cost of education has increased. I'm just saying that a responsible person can go to school for a lot less than the horror stories that make headlines. Those are special cases of stupid (though they are becoming increasingly more common which speaks volumes about today's culture of entitlement). That is true, but even cutting costs pretty much to the bone, it's still an expensive proposition. I've got two kids enrolled right now, with a no-frills bill of about $18K/yr. each. That's a $3000/mo bill for us, and yeah, it's pretty damned hard to stay on top of. It's more than my mortgage, two car payments, and all our utilities combined. Community college was $3k a year for me (plus books). I started there and then moved to a different school, after my AAS was completed, then got my BS. Much cheaper that way. We will probably be looking into that as an option for my youngest, right now a Jr. in high school. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:42:57 PM EDT
[#46]
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Why do I even pay for shit? Id love to have that extra 3 grand per month we pay for our daughter's tuition. Maybe I should just do the irresponsible thing and load her up with debt so she can walk away from it. My wife and I spent around $220K to put 3 kids thru private college to give them the gift of no debt with an undergrad degree. They had academic scholarships and worked as well, so it wasn't a complete free ride. This will have an impact on our retirement obviously, but we felt it was the right thing to do. I guess we were suckers too. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:45:20 PM EDT
[#47]
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This guy gets it. The current structure is a major reason academia and government are so intertwined. Schools should have to hold a portion of every loan on the books. Lent from its foundation. Student can declare bankruptcy on that portion of the loan. It would eliminate pointless majors and drop the cost of secondary education REAL quick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Fine. Create a special category of bankruptcy just for student debt. Anybody can file and be granted relief on the spot. This would cure the insane cost of secondary education on the fucking spot. Right now lenders know it's a sure thing that they'll get paid. So money is stupid easy to borrow. Colleges know it's stupid easy to get it so they jack up the prices. Financially responsible people can't afford college while idiots run up thousands in debt for liberal arts degrees to wipe asses with. This guy gets it. The current structure is a major reason academia and government are so intertwined. Schools should have to hold a portion of every loan on the books. Lent from its foundation. Student can declare bankruptcy on that portion of the loan. It would eliminate pointless majors and drop the cost of secondary education REAL quick. Good point. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:50:07 PM EDT
[#48]
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What decade was that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I worked and paid as I went..............nobody else paid it for me What decade was that? I worked and paid my way through college from 2004-2008. Full disclosure: I lived with my parents and ate their food while I did it. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:52:25 PM EDT
[#49]
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Hasn't Uncle Bernie already floated that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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(edit) Wait until the Democratic candidates start promising student loan forgiveness. Hasn't Uncle Bernie already floated that? Hillary Clinton has some "loan forgiveness" program too that she's been running with this campaign season. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:53:12 PM EDT
[#50]
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How about you lose the degree if you can't pay for the loan? Similar to every other item you take a loan for. Probably a stupid idea, but... When a bank repossesses a house, they get something of value, an actual house, that they can turn around and sell. If a bank were to "repossess" a degree, WTF is it going to do with it? It's not like there's a market out there that wants to buy up other people's degrees. It's worthless. It's a piece of paper that says so-and-so went to college for 4/5/6/8/10/... years. |
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