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Posted: 10/8/2015 7:58:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Human life is arguably the highest value in civil society. The point of the death penalty is to demonstrate that there are things even more important than that, specifically innocent human life, and in days gone by the bodily integrity of innocent humans.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 8:06:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Loss of liberty is worse but much more expensive. Next question.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 8:08:52 PM EDT
[#3]
I'd wonder how the founders would feel about burdening society with paying the upkeep for thousands of felons for the remainder of their natural lives.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 8:10:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd wonder how the founders would feel about burdening society with paying the upkeep for thousands of felons for the remainder of their natural lives. Or private probation. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 8:10:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Pretty much yeah.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 8:24:54 PM EDT
[#6]
Our founding fathers were a very unusual group to risk life for liberty. If you think about it, that attitude just isn't very common. Billions of people have died, lived, or are living under tyranny without much resistance.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 8:26:04 PM EDT
[#7]
If I'm not a free man, I don't want to live here. If I can't leave for somewhere equally as free, my life isn't mine. I'm not living for anyone else unless I choose to include them in my decision matrix.
So yes, give me liberty or death. Quoted:
Our founding fathers were a very unusual group to risk life for liberty. If you think about it, that attitude just isn't very common. Billions of people have died, lived, or are living under tyranny without much resistance. There are plenty of sheep in the world. Our founding fathers committed to an end and accepted all that achieving those ends would mean. Sheep are willing to sacrifice anything in order to feel protected. Being free means you are also much more vulnerable, responsible, and culpable for your own end. Being submissive is easier, and there are plenty of people in the world that strongly prefer submission vs. having to face the cold hard realities of the world. Doesn't change the damn fact that I'd rather be free (have liberty), than have a government that protects me from myself or the actions of others at the cost to my own freedom. I'll take the risk, and I'll protect myself. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 8:30:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Maybe I misunderstand the question, but the Framers lived in and willfully perpetuated a world in which the presumptive sentence for murder was death.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 8:35:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Why is the death penalty considered so much worse than life in prison? Wouldn't our founders prefer to die rather than spend a life time without liberty? "Give me liberty, or give me death!" Patrick Henry Because the vast majority of people would rather be ALIVE than DEAD. It isn't rocket science. Now, don't do something stupid to test the theory like lock yourself in the closet for 12 hours and then shoot yourself in the head for 12 hours to see which is worse. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 8:36:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe I misunderstand the question, but the Framers lived in and willfully perpetuated a world in which the presumptive sentence for murder was death. And rightly so A life for a life is a natural balance. Anything else is not justice. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 9:08:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And rightly so A life for a life is a natural balance. Anything else is not justice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe I misunderstand the question, but the Framers lived in and willfully perpetuated a world in which the presumptive sentence for murder was death. And rightly so A life for a life is a natural balance. Anything else is not justice. I agree. I just don't understand what the OP is getting at. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 9:12:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Loss of liberty is worse but much more expensive. Next question. Yeah it's so much worse, criminals prefer it to death. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 1:18:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah it's so much worse, criminals prefer it to death. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Loss of liberty is worse but much more expensive. Next question. Yeah it's so much worse, criminals prefer it to death. Sort of my point. Did our founders and early settlers go through through more hardship and persecution than what is present in our modern prisons. The fact they prefer to keep on living says our prisons system isn't harsh enough. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 1:20:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Loss of liberty is worse but much more expensive. Next question. This kind of argument might make sense in your head, but only in that narrow circumstance. Try to think beyond the specific issue eliciting a response. Is keeping old people alive also bad, because its expensive? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 1:21:46 AM EDT
[#15]
death penalty when applied properly prevents the prisoner from escaping, so there's that
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Posted: 10/9/2015 1:25:26 AM EDT
[#16]
It's not a deterrent. It is punishment.
You gotta earn it. I have problems with many cases where it has been applied. Others it is well deserved. I only wish it was administered in a timely manner. 20 years on death row is a joke. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 1:30:46 AM EDT
[#17]
The convicts CHOSE to give up their lives by their crimes. By waving a gun or knife around and pulling the trigger or stabbing or choking, they proclaimed to the world that they absolutely craved their own execution.
Fuck them, no matter how precious their lives are. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 1:38:18 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The convicts CHOSE to give up their lives by their crimes. By waving a gun or knife around and pulling the trigger or stabbing or choking Or loading 8 rounds into their handgun magazine, or by their plane getting diverted by certain airports in the Land of The Free and Brave |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 1:38:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The convicts CHOSE to give up their lives by their crimes. By waving a gun or knife around and pulling the trigger or stabbing or choking, they proclaimed to the world that they absolutely craved their own execution. Fuck them, no matter how precious their lives are. That's what gets me you always hear about how "precious" human life is, but really, how precious is it? There's billions of us on this rock. surely they're not all precious right? Some of the lives are indeed precious, some are relevant, some are even only barely worth keeping. At the other end of the scale some must be complete garbage right? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 1:55:38 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe I misunderstand the question, but the Framers lived in and willfully perpetuated a world in which the presumptive sentence for murder was death. And not just murder, either. Multiple felonies were punishable by death, as was treason (which at the time was classified separately from felonies). A number of military offenses were also punishable by death. Incarceration, IIRC, was usually short term, but for felonies property forfeiture and civil death were options as alternatives to death. Corporal punishment was more common for minor offenses. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 2:04:54 AM EDT
[#21]
If I am ever murdered and the perpetrators are truly sorry, I hope they can choose their fate.
If they are not, I hope they get life. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 2:35:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not a deterrent. It is punishment. You gotta earn it. I have problems with many cases where it has been applied. Others it is well deserved. I only wish it was administered in a timely manner. 20 years on death row is a joke. Umm, the death penalty, when implemented, is 100% a deterrent. When's the last time you heard of someone put to death killing again? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 2:36:48 AM EDT
[#23]
A lot of people say they think it would be worse to live in prison for life than be executed.
But the way I see it, if that were true, inmates on death row wouldn't be doing everything they can to appeal out if it all the time like they typically do. Easy to say "just execute me" while discussing it as a pure hypothetical on the Internet, but if you're actually counting down the months to your planned death, I suspect the instincts to survive kick in. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 2:37:35 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Umm, the death penalty, when implemented, is 100% a deterrent. When's the last time you heard of someone put to death killing again? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's not a deterrent. It is punishment. You gotta earn it. I have problems with many cases where it has been applied. Others it is well deserved. I only wish it was administered in a timely manner. 20 years on death row is a joke. Umm, the death penalty, when implemented, is 100% a deterrent. When's the last time you heard of someone put to death killing again? The deterrent effect is with regard to others who may consider committing an act punishable by death. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 2:54:25 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The deterrent effect is with regard to others who may consider committing an act punishable by death. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's not a deterrent. It is punishment. You gotta earn it. I have problems with many cases where it has been applied. Others it is well deserved. I only wish it was administered in a timely manner. 20 years on death row is a joke. Umm, the death penalty, when implemented, is 100% a deterrent. When's the last time you heard of someone put to death killing again? The deterrent effect is with regard to others who may consider committing an act punishable by death. This. I don't think anyone committing a heinous crime stops for one second and thinks, "oh, no! I might be sentenced to death! I better not do it." |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 5:20:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. I don't think anyone committing a heinous crime stops for one second and thinks, "oh, no! I might be sentenced to death! I better not do it." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's not a deterrent. It is punishment. You gotta earn it. I have problems with many cases where it has been applied. Others it is well deserved. I only wish it was administered in a timely manner. 20 years on death row is a joke. Umm, the death penalty, when implemented, is 100% a deterrent. When's the last time you heard of someone put to death killing again? The deterrent effect is with regard to others who may consider committing an act punishable by death. This. I don't think anyone committing a heinous crime stops for one second and thinks, "oh, no! I might be sentenced to death! I better not do it." Any deterrent value is really secondary to considerations of justice and removal of someone who is essentially at war with society (and the imprisoned are as much a society as anyone else; there is no reason why someone who committed a relatively minor offence should have to be placed at a heightened risk of murder, rape, etc.). If it also deters people, great. If not, well, the principal purposes were still accomplished. Watering down the death penalty and minimizing its application compared to what has traditionally been allowed has, I think, significantly reduced any deterrent value that might exist. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 5:28:48 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Why is the death penalty considered so much worse than life in prison? Wouldn't our founders prefer to die rather than spend a life time without liberty? "Give me liberty, or give me death!" Patrick Henry Because they are smart and know that people may be charged for things they didn't do. If they are in on life there is a posibility for tham to refain their freedom. If they get killed they are dead, and dead people cannot enjoy liberty. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 5:43:47 AM EDT
[#28]
FPNI
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Posted: 10/9/2015 7:10:24 AM EDT
[#29]
Which is worse:
An innocent receives the full measure of what a guilty party deserves. or A guilty party receives a slightly less intense punishment. It's like we only trust the government to be capable for the things we want to happen.  |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 7:19:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Why is the death penalty considered so much worse than life in prison? Wouldn't our founders prefer to die rather than spend a life time without liberty? "Give me liberty, or give me death!" Patrick Henry What if Patrick Henry's meaning in his statement was not merely a statement of opinion - that he would rather die than live without liberty - but was instead an observation of perceived fact: that in the absence of liberty there results only death? |
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