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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:21:56 PM EDT
[#1]
It's not just the nuclear generator you have to be concerned about, it is also the grid and other generators tied in. If those go down, the nuke plant trips.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:22:42 PM EDT
[#2]
They are not automated.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:23:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Most nuclear power plants are using technology from that is what, 30 years or more old? They aren't automated.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:24:57 PM EDT
[#4]
They are not going to be producing power without being staffed and having an uninterrupted grid.
The automation is geared towards tripping the plant. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:27:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are not going to be producing power without being staffed and having an uninterrupted grid. Pretty much this, they "should" be on AVR (automatic voltage regulator) which mean ls it will do everything it can to support the system till it or the system fails. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:28:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:28:42 PM EDT
[#7]
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant. Interesting. I assumed it fed itself but then I remember that Fukushima was on generator at some point? |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:31:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. I assumed it fed itself but then I remember that Fukushima was on generator at some point? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant. Interesting. I assumed it fed itself but then I remember that Fukushima was on generator at some point? I think there is a pull cord, but you have to yank it a few times to start the chain reaction. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:32:11 PM EDT
[#9]
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I think there is a pull cord, but you have to yank it a few times to start the chain reaction. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant. Interesting. I assumed it fed itself but then I remember that Fukushima was on generator at some point? I think there is a pull cord, but you have to yank it a few times to start the chain reaction. 
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:33:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant. When it's running it feeds its own electrical needs.(parasitic load). However, they all rely on some other generator for black start and if that goes down the entire plant trips offline. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:34:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think there is a pull cord, but you have to yank it a few times to start the chain reaction. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant. Interesting. I assumed it fed itself but then I remember that Fukushima was on generator at some point? I think there is a pull cord, but you have to yank it a few times to start the chain reaction. http://lifeafterpeople.wikia.com/wiki/Nuclear_power_plants |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:36:00 PM EDT
[#12]
If you want end of the world power, move next to a hydro unit.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:36:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. I assumed it fed itself but then I remember that Fukushima was on generator at some point? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant. Interesting. I assumed it fed itself but then I remember that Fukushima was on generator at some point? Plants have backup diesel, but they aren't bootstrapped to run off of their own electricity for normal operation. If the grid is interrupted, it's an automatic trip. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:39:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When it's running it feeds its own electrical needs.(parasitic load). However, they all rely on some other generator for black start and if that goes down the entire plant trips offline. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant. When it's running it feeds its own electrical needs.(parasitic load). However, they all rely on some other generator for black start and if that goes down the entire plant trips offline. Really? The hydro plants I've worked on all had separate services to run the equipment since the power generated by the plant is all sold to power brokers. Stupid contract language but thats how it works on small scale. Maybe due to the generating capacity of a nuke plant and the massive electrical load they have different rules. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:42:57 PM EDT
[#15]
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Really? The hydro plants I've worked on all had separate services to run the equipment since the power generated by the plant is all sold to power brokers. Stupid contract language but thats how it works on small scale. Maybe due to the generating capacity of a nuke plant and the massive electrical load they have different rules. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant. When it's running it feeds its own electrical needs.(parasitic load). However, they all rely on some other generator for black start and if that goes down the entire plant trips offline. Really? The hydro plants I've worked on all had separate services to run the equipment since the power generated by the plant is all sold to power brokers. Stupid contract language but thats how it works on small scale. Maybe due to the generating capacity of a nuke plant and the massive electrical load they have different rules. I am not as familiar with nukes as coal plants but at coal plants in the control room you see gross and net generating numbers. The loss is due to all the electric needs of the plant, mainly emissions controls and can be significant. Nuke plants don't need emissions controls but they need to keeps the lights on and power pumps and other things. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 12:44:10 PM EDT
[#16]
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Interesting. I assumed it fed itself but then I remember that Fukushima was on generator at some point? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant. Interesting. I assumed it fed itself but then I remember that Fukushima was on generator at some point? That would really suck when these guys come along.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:05:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryThis, eventually the water in the cooling pools would evaporate and the spent rods would catch fire and melt down...basically fukushima except worse. You don't want to be around when that happens. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:22:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Grid interruptions vary from loss of load to loss of offsite power.
These scenarios are outlined by the NRC and addressed more specifically by each plant's safety analysis report and plant modification licensing reports submitted with each fuel reload. Generator load interruptions complicate heat removal from the reactor core. Some plants are inherently more stable for load interruptions than others (steam generator design differences and so forth), so trips vary with load interruption. Loss of offsite power should be an automatic trip. Things like these are all anticipated operational occurrences. EOTWAWKI is not an AOO, and something like goes beyond station blackout, and even severe accident analysis. But, EOTWAWKI would probably come about in small enough steps that some scenario could be traced through using the existing NRC framework. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:42:16 PM EDT
[#19]
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant. Your wrong. How much power the plant makes at the generator is called gross, the amount of power it takes to run the plant for example feed pumps,CT fans etc that's called your parasitic load. The amount of power your putting out on the grid is called your net power. The control systems available for plants now a days is very impressive and doesn't need much human interference. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:44:09 PM EDT
[#20]
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How much human interaction is needed to keep them running and providing power? End of the world scenario, will they keep pumping out electricity? Who knows. If a main plant breaker or one connecting it to the grid open for whatever reason then it's tripping and not making power. Could run months or days. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:44:18 PM EDT
[#21]
As automated as 1970's technology would allow.
Most plants have auto shutdown systems and auto initiated emergency cooling systems, but they need human interaction to KEEP cooling. Startup is manual as well. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:46:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As automated as 1970's technology would allow. Most plants have auto shutdown systems and auto initiated emergency cooling systems, but they need human interaction to KEEP cooling. Startup is manual as well. In another words if the outage is a long prolong one we're fucked. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:47:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In another words if the outage is a long prolong one we're fucked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As automated as 1970's technology would allow. Most plants have auto shutdown systems and auto initiated emergency cooling systems, but they need human interaction to KEEP cooling. Startup is manual as well. In another words if the outage is a long prolong one we're fucked. If it disconnects from the grid it's not syncing itself. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:50:50 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:51:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are not automated. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:52:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryWe have that in poster form in our control room. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:56:13 PM EDT
[#27]
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Plants have backup diesel, but they aren't bootstrapped to run off of their own electricity for normal operation. If the grid is interrupted, it's an automatic trip. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the plant runs on electricity, non nuclear electricity. Power goes off, so does the plant. Interesting. I assumed it fed itself but then I remember that Fukushima was on generator at some point? Plants have backup diesel, but they aren't bootstrapped to run off of their own electricity for normal operation. If the grid is interrupted, it's an automatic trip. That seems poorly thought out, but I'm sure it's not.
Why wouldn't they run the nuke plant's electrical needs from the nuke plant itself? |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:57:59 PM EDT
[#28]
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If you want end of the world power, move next to a hydro unit. Saw a TV program about that. Engineer said it could be making power 30 years later. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:59:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That seems poorly thought out, but I'm sure it's not. Why wouldn't they run the nuke plant's electrical needs from the nuke plant itself? Quote HistoryQuoted: That seems poorly thought out, but I'm sure it's not. Why wouldn't they run the nuke plant's electrical needs from the nuke plant itself? |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:59:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Nope
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:00:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saw a TV program about that. Engineer said it could be making power 30 years later. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you want end of the world power, move next to a hydro unit. Saw a TV program about that. Engineer said it could be making power 30 years later.  
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:05:07 PM EDT
[#32]
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The generators are for keeping the lights on if the reactor shuts down completely. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That seems poorly thought out, but I'm sure it's not.
Why wouldn't they run the nuke plant's electrical needs from the nuke plant itself? What I was referring to was the comment that "Plants have backup diesel, but they aren't bootstrapped to run off of their own electricity for normal operation. If the grid is interrupted, it's an automatic trip." So a nuclear power generating plant is run off of electricity from other power plants, and if they lose that power they shut down the reactor. Or did I read that wrong? |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:06:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Any moar than a dollars worth and we are screwed....
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:08:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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If you want end of the world power, move next to a hydro unit. Saw a TV program about that. Engineer said it could be making power 30 years later.
http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/images_blogs/dangerroom/2013/01/1row2.jpg I prefer to be able to stretch my legs. 
The USS Enterprise, 4 screws powered by 8 reactors. 
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:09:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I was referring to was the comment that "Plants have backup diesel, but they aren't bootstrapped to run off of their own electricity for normal operation. If the grid is interrupted, it's an automatic trip." So a nuclear power generating plant is run off of electricity from other power plants, and if they lose that power they shut down the reactor. Or did I read that wrong? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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That seems poorly thought out, but I'm sure it's not.
Why wouldn't they run the nuke plant's electrical needs from the nuke plant itself? What I was referring to was the comment that "Plants have backup diesel, but they aren't bootstrapped to run off of their own electricity for normal operation. If the grid is interrupted, it's an automatic trip." So a nuclear power generating plant is run off of electricity from other power plants, and if they lose that power they shut down the reactor. Or did I read that wrong? Reactors are not "walk away safe" once SCAMed or shut down... They need power to circulate water to cool the core. They have diesel generators to power the pumps for a few days, if no power comes in from the grid by the time the diesel runs out you get what happened in Japan.. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:19:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I prefer to be able to stretch my legs. <a href="http://s7.photobucket.com/user/brett6485/media/Mobile%20Uploads/4CB94AA8-5BD5-4FE1-A61A-71B593177177.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/brett6485/Mobile%20Uploads/4CB94AA8-5BD5-4FE1-A61A-71B593177177.jpg</a> The USS Enterprise, 4 screws powered by 8 reactors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you want end of the world power, move next to a hydro unit. Saw a TV program about that. Engineer said it could be making power 30 years later.
http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/images_blogs/dangerroom/2013/01/1row2.jpg I prefer to be able to stretch my legs. <a href="http://s7.photobucket.com/user/brett6485/media/Mobile%20Uploads/4CB94AA8-5BD5-4FE1-A61A-71B593177177.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/brett6485/Mobile%20Uploads/4CB94AA8-5BD5-4FE1-A61A-71B593177177.jpg</a> The USS Enterprise, 4 screws powered by 8 reactors. What is this door? It's too big to be a torpedo tube..... 
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:20:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is this door? It's too big to be a torpedo tube..... http://s8.postimg.org/qb6dzo0fp/tmp_11556_4_CB94_AA8_5_BD5_4_FE1_A61_A_71_B593177177_1.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you want end of the world power, move next to a hydro unit. Saw a TV program about that. Engineer said it could be making power 30 years later.
http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/images_blogs/dangerroom/2013/01/1row2.jpg I prefer to be able to stretch my legs. <a href="http://s7.photobucket.com/user/brett6485/media/Mobile%20Uploads/4CB94AA8-5BD5-4FE1-A61A-71B593177177.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/brett6485/Mobile%20Uploads/4CB94AA8-5BD5-4FE1-A61A-71B593177177.jpg</a> The USS Enterprise, 4 screws powered by 8 reactors. What is this door? It's too big to be a torpedo tube..... http://s8.postimg.org/qb6dzo0fp/tmp_11556_4_CB94_AA8_5_BD5_4_FE1_A61_A_71_B593177177_1.jpg  
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:23:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reactors are not "walk away safe" once SCAMed or shut down... They need power to circulate water to cool the core. They have diesel generators to power the pumps for a few days, if no power comes in from the grid by the time the diesel runs out you get what happened in Japan.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That seems poorly thought out, but I'm sure it's not.
Why wouldn't they run the nuke plant's electrical needs from the nuke plant itself? What I was referring to was the comment that "Plants have backup diesel, but they aren't bootstrapped to run off of their own electricity for normal operation. If the grid is interrupted, it's an automatic trip." So a nuclear power generating plant is run off of electricity from other power plants, and if they lose that power they shut down the reactor. Or did I read that wrong? Reactors are not "walk away safe" once SCAMed or shut down... They need power to circulate water to cool the core. They have diesel generators to power the pumps for a few days, if no power comes in from the grid by the time the diesel runs out you get what happened in Japan.. Sure, which is why my uneducated self thinks not running the reactor's electrical needs from the reactor itself sounds poorly thought out. "Bob, the electricity we need to run this electrical generating plant has failed. What do we do to keep it from melting down?" "Fire up the diesel back up generators, Tim." "Bob, we're out of diesel, and the electrical grid is still down. What do we do now?" "Well, we're good and truly fucked now. Damn it, If only we had a source of electricity to keep this nuclear powered electricity creation device running." So what am I missing? |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:24:27 PM EDT
[#39]
^ you're missing something. It makes sense, don't worry.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:27:45 PM EDT
[#40]
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^ you're missing something. It makes sense, don't worry. Clearly.
I'm sure there's good a reason for doing it that way. I just want to know what that is or what I'm misunderstanding. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:31:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is this door? It's too big to be a torpedo tube..... http://s8.postimg.org/qb6dzo0fp/tmp_11556_4_CB94_AA8_5_BD5_4_FE1_A61_A_71_B593177177_1.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you want end of the world power, move next to a hydro unit. Saw a TV program about that. Engineer said it could be making power 30 years later.
http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/images_blogs/dangerroom/2013/01/1row2.jpg I prefer to be able to stretch my legs. <a href="http://s7.photobucket.com/user/brett6485/media/Mobile%20Uploads/4CB94AA8-5BD5-4FE1-A61A-71B593177177.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/brett6485/Mobile%20Uploads/4CB94AA8-5BD5-4FE1-A61A-71B593177177.jpg</a> The USS Enterprise, 4 screws powered by 8 reactors. What is this door? It's too big to be a torpedo tube..... http://s8.postimg.org/qb6dzo0fp/tmp_11556_4_CB94_AA8_5_BD5_4_FE1_A61_A_71_B593177177_1.jpg 
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:33:57 PM EDT
[#42]
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^ you're missing something. It makes sense, don't worry. Hows about peeing in it? 
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:35:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure, which is why my uneducated self thinks not running the reactor's electrical needs from the reactor itself sounds poorly thought out. "Bob, the electricity we need to run this electrical generating plant has failed. What do we do to keep it from melting down?" "Fire up the diesel back up generators, Tim." "Bob, we're out of diesel, and the electrical grid is still down. What do we do now?" "Well, we're good and truly fucked now. Damn it, If only we had a source of electricity to keep this nuclear powered electricity creation device running." So what am I missing? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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[quoe]Quoted: Quoted:
That seems poorly thought out, but I'm sure it's not.
Why wouldn't they run the nuke plant's electrical needs from the nuke plant itself? What I was referring to was the comment that "Plants have backup diesel, but they aren't bootstrapped to run off of their own electricity for normal operation. If the grid is interrupted, it's an automatic trip." So a nuclear power generating plant is run off of electricity from other power plants, and if they lose that power they shut down the reactor. Or did I read that wrong? Reactors are not "walk away safe" once SCAMed or shut down... They need power to circulate water to cool the core. They have diesel generators to power the pumps for a few days, if no power comes in from the grid by the time the diesel runs out you get what happened in Japan.. Sure, which is why my uneducated self thinks not running the reactor's electrical needs from the reactor itself sounds poorly thought out. "Bob, the electricity we need to run this electrical generating plant has failed. What do we do to keep it from melting down?" "Fire up the diesel back up generators, Tim." "Bob, we're out of diesel, and the electrical grid is still down. What do we do now?" "Well, we're good and truly fucked now. Damn it, If only we had a source of electricity to keep this nuclear powered electricity creation device running." So what am I missing? I am pretty sure there are several thorium salt reactor designs that address the exact dilemma you are talking about. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:36:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are not going to be producing power without being staffed and having an uninterrupted grid. The automation is geared towards tripping the plant. This. They are designed to shut down automatically. Take the August '03 blackout. The lights went out the moment the grid tripped. By the time the operators finished shitting their pants the backup generators had kicked in and the reactor was in the process of shutting down. You need people to keep them running though. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:48:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is this door? It's too big to be a torpedo tube..... http://s8.postimg.org/qb6dzo0fp/tmp_11556_4_CB94_AA8_5_BD5_4_FE1_A61_A_71_B593177177_1.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you want end of the world power, move next to a hydro unit. Saw a TV program about that. Engineer said it could be making power 30 years later.
http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/images_blogs/dangerroom/2013/01/1row2.jpg I prefer to be able to stretch my legs. <a href="http://s7.photobucket.com/user/brett6485/media/Mobile%20Uploads/4CB94AA8-5BD5-4FE1-A61A-71B593177177.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/brett6485/Mobile%20Uploads/4CB94AA8-5BD5-4FE1-A61A-71B593177177.jpg</a> The USS Enterprise, 4 screws powered by 8 reactors. What is this door? It's too big to be a torpedo tube..... http://s8.postimg.org/qb6dzo0fp/tmp_11556_4_CB94_AA8_5_BD5_4_FE1_A61_A_71_B593177177_1.jpg
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:59:09 PM EDT
[#46]
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This. They are designed to shut down automatically. Take the August '03 blackout. The lights went out the moment the grid tripped. By the time the operators finished shitting their pants the backup generators had kicked in and the reactor was in the process of shutting down. You need people to keep them running though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They are not going to be producing power without being staffed and having an uninterrupted grid. The automation is geared towards tripping the plant. This. They are designed to shut down automatically. Take the August '03 blackout. The lights went out the moment the grid tripped. By the time the operators finished shitting their pants the backup generators had kicked in and the reactor was in the process of shutting down. You need people to keep them running though. Even when a reactor is turned "off" there is still a shit ton of heat generated by radioactive decay in the fuel elements that if serious amounts of water are not kept flowing, it will melt.... This is where the outside power source is needed.. Be it generator or grid... Most commercial reactors can also not be immediately restarted if the shut down goes past a certain amount of time.. Known as a "poisoned" core, there are various byproducts of the fission process that will not allow the reactor to run normally for a few days until they decay.. Naval reactors don't have a big a problem with this IIRC due to running much higher purity fuel... May be wrong there... |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 3:13:54 PM EDT
[#47]
I'd be curious to know why a nuke plant would trip off if disconnected from the grid. It would have to start up disconnected, sync to the grid, and then close the mains. And why don't they eat from the same grid they feed? I've done programming at several plants and have been into the control systems for almost system in a plant besides the turbine control. I have never been an employee for a plant so I'm a bit fuzzy on how all the systems interact. Several coal plants have been installing peaking gas turbines to handle peak usage times because they can be started and brought online fairly quickly by comparison to a coal or nuke system. These gas turbines normally have some sort of blackstart diesel generator with them that automatically starts on grid failure allowing the gas turbines to start one at a time and then the coal plant could come back up. I also support a gas turbine system on a university campus. This plant feeds from the same grid that feeds the campus and puts its power back onto it. It can disconnect the campus from the grid if needed and if it's load falls off too much and it starts feeding power back onto the grid the power company can trip the mains to kick it off the grid. I don't know why the utility decided that it didn't want any power coming back onto the grid but it was a major deal. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 3:17:58 PM EDT
[#48]
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I'd be curious to know why a nuke plant would trip off if disconnected from the grid. It would have to start up disconnected, sync to the grid, and then close the mains. And why don't they eat from the same grid they feed? I've done programming at several plants and have been into the control systems for almost system in a plant besides the turbine control. I have never been an employee for a plant so I'm a bit fuzzy on how all the systems interact. Several coal plants have been installing peaking gas turbines to handle peak usage times because they can be started and brought online fairly quickly by comparison to a coal or nuke system. These gas turbines normally have some sort of blackstart diesel generator with them that automatically starts on grid failure allowing the gas turbines to start one at a time and then the coal plant could come back up. I also support a gas turbine system on a university campus. This plant feeds from the same grid that feeds the campus and puts its power back onto it. It can disconnect the campus from the grid if needed and if it's load falls off too much and it starts feeding power back onto the grid the power company can trip the mains to kick it off the grid. I don't know why the utility decided that it didn't want any power coming back onto the grid but it was a major deal. Most control valves can't slow the turbine down fast enough when it disconnects from the grid to stop it from tripping on over speed. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 3:19:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Something like:
https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/3i8sya/why_cant_nuclear_power_plants_use_their_own/ When a reactor is running normally, it is using its own power for cooling. All the circulation is pumped using the plant's own power. The problem is that all that auxiliary power is only using a small fraction of the total power being generated. If the grid goes dead for whatever reason, a 1000MW reactor suddenly has a billion joules per second in extra energy that it needs to deal with, and the cooling system simply isn't able to deal with that much heat.
So instead, you scram the reactor and bring it down to a much lower power level that the cooling system has the capacity to handle. You aren't generating enough power to turn the steam turbines, so you use back-up generators to run the circulation pumps. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 3:34:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most control valves can't slow the turbine down fast enough when it disconnects from the grid to stop it from tripping on over speed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd be curious to know why a nuke plant would trip off if disconnected from the grid. It would have to start up disconnected, sync to the grid, and then close the mains. And why don't they eat from the same grid they feed? I've done programming at several plants and have been into the control systems for almost system in a plant besides the turbine control. I have never been an employee for a plant so I'm a bit fuzzy on how all the systems interact. Several coal plants have been installing peaking gas turbines to handle peak usage times because they can be started and brought online fairly quickly by comparison to a coal or nuke system. These gas turbines normally have some sort of blackstart diesel generator with them that automatically starts on grid failure allowing the gas turbines to start one at a time and then the coal plant could come back up. I also support a gas turbine system on a university campus. This plant feeds from the same grid that feeds the campus and puts its power back onto it. It can disconnect the campus from the grid if needed and if it's load falls off too much and it starts feeding power back onto the grid the power company can trip the mains to kick it off the grid. I don't know why the utility decided that it didn't want any power coming back onto the grid but it was a major deal. Most control valves can't slow the turbine down fast enough when it disconnects from the grid to stop it from tripping on over speed. That makes sense. I know some of the smaller plants can restart the turbine, if an operator catches the trip soon enough, without letting it slow down. |
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